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snopes
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Comment: Here are two rumors that have circulated among Jehovah's
Witnesses through the years. I doubt both of them, but was hoping you
could clear them up...

1- The cover to Billy Joel's 1994 album "River of Dreams" is based on the
text/illustrations from the 1984 book published by the Watchtower Society
entitled "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth". The rumor has it
that his sister is a JW and she gave him the book.

2- The Tommy James & the Shondells song "Crystal Blue Persuation" is based
on the Watchtower book from the 1960s entitled "The Truth that Leads to
Eternal Life". The book, naturally, has a blue cover.

3- John Denver hated JWs, even going so far as to ask, before he began his
concerts, that any JW in the audience please leave.

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monkey
Happy Holly Days


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*sigh*

two rumors... I doubt both of them... and now I'm listing three.

Idiot.

--------------------
http://sarahdwebber.wordpress.com/

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Cobra4J
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Probably both rumors are false, and even if they aren't- so what?

What's not a legend is, according to a book I have, Charles Russell, who founded the group that would become JWs predicted the end of the age in 1914. That does not appear to have happened.

Many Jehovah Witnesses were led to believe that the final battle of Armageddon would take place in 1975. (What exactly "led to believe" means I don't know. Does it mean some leader actually chose this date, or just strongly hinted at it?)Well, it didn't happen, and membership did fall considerably in the late 70s.

But, it is growing again. Amazing how fast people can forget.

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Methuselah
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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Comment: Here are two rumors that have circulated among Jehovah's
Witnesses through the years.

And here are six rumors that have circulated among the general public through the years:

1) Rumor mongers can't count very well

The end.
[Big Grin]

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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

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steve s
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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:


1- The cover to Billy Joel's 1994 album "River of Dreams" is based on the
text/illustrations from the 1984 book published by the Watchtower Society
entitled "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth". The rumor has it
that his sister is a JW and she gave him the book.

I recall seeing an interview with Billy in which he credits his former wife Christie Brinkley with painting the cover for that album.

quote:

3- John Denver hated JWs, even going so far as to ask, before he began his
concerts, that any JW in the audience please leave.

I once saw John Denver in concert and I assure you that he did no such thing.

Steve S.

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Cowboy Joe
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I heard that John Denver used to throw JWs into the crowd at the start of the show and would refuse to play until they cam back to the stage dead. Used to really get the crowd fired up for Annie's Song.

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"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

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Brad from Georgia
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The way I heard it was that Bob Denver was doing a TRIBUTE to John Denver (you know how much they looked alike, and Bob strummed a mean guitar) and one night when the crowd got all inflamed by a ragin' version of "Stairway to Rocky Mountain High," somebody threw a JW onto the stage and Bob bit his head off. He said later he thought it was a rubber JW, though.

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Moeko'sOwl
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Brad from Georgia owes me a new keyboard, monitor, and cup of tea with sugar and cream. That was GREAT!

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We are all equal, be it before the eyes of God, or for our own sake. We are all worthy of the same fundamental rights, freedoms, and, protections. Mindless hatred is unjustifiable. -Squoval

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Signora Del Drago
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quote:
Originally posted by Milhouse Van Houten:
And here are six rumors that have circulated among the general public through the years:

1) Rumor mongers can't count very well

The end.

[Big Grin]

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world ~ those who understand binary and those who do not. On another board, I posted "11 kinds," just to test, and nobody corrected me. I was afraid to do that here. [Wink]

Signora Del "Chicken" Drago

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Four Kitties
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quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago:
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world ~ those who understand binary and those who do not. On another board, I posted "11 kinds," just to test, and nobody corrected me. I was afraid to do that here. [Wink]

Wise move. [Wink]

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TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Cobra4J:
What's not a legend is, according to a book I have, Charles Russell, who founded the group that would become JWs predicted the end of the age in 1914. That does not appear to have happened.

Many Jehovah Witnesses were led to believe that the final battle of Armageddon would take place in 1975. (What exactly "led to believe" means I don't know. Does it mean some leader actually chose this date, or just strongly hinted at it?)Well, it didn't happen, and membership did fall considerably in the late 70s.

Jack Chick feels your pain at explaining how many times they've predicted the end of the world. (A little over half way down the tract.)

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I would prefer not to.
My blog

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Arriah
The First USA Noel


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What's quite funny to me is that I used to hear these and other types of 'true stories' as a JW kid. I never really thought about them much but every so often on here a UL pops up and it's rather obvious that at some point a JW heard the ledgend and added in the JW bits and that's what circulates in that crowd.
Like this story which remains recognizable but has morphed into a JW who is protected while knocking on doors from a Satinist (cue ominous music) who tells her to 'leave and take those two big guys with you'

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I never heard any of these rumors growing up JW. The big thing then was "famous people who are really JW's, or whose family are." Michael Jackson, of course -- remember the disclaimer he added to the "Thriller" video? A woman named Teresa Graves who was one of the bikini-clad dancers on "Laugh-In" and later had a short-lived series called "Get Christie Love." Dwight Eisenhower's parents -- he was raised a JW.

quote:

Many Jehovah Witnesses were led to believe that the final battle of Armageddon would take place in 1975. (What exactly "led to believe" means I don't know. Does it mean some leader actually chose this date, or just strongly hinted at it?)

Strong hints, as I recall -- I was 13 at the time. The organization leadership would say that 1975 was a significant date, but they were vague about what was going to happen. The rank-and-file ran with it, though.

quote:
But, it is growing again. Amazing how fast people can forget.
Assuming that the people joining now even know about it. It's not exactly part of the welcome package.

--------------------
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Loyhargil
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Dwight Eisenhower's parents -- he was raised a JW.


Actually, I don't remember for sure about his father, he could have been a JW, but Ike's mother was actually a Mennonite and a staunch pacifist. The Eisenhower Museum in Abilene, Kansas, has a more detailed discussion, but their website isn't very detailed. Apparently his mother was positively horrified that he wanted to go to West Point. It caused some problems in his relationship with his mother for a while.

ETA: Hmmm, I found another reference that does state that he was raised JW. I know from visiting the childhood museum in Abilene, Kansas, however, that they list at least his mother as Mennonite, and discuss her heartbreak at her son's military involvement. I wouldn't think the museum at his childhood home would list that incorrectly.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Loyhargil:
ETA: Hmmm, I found another reference that does state that he was raised JW. I know from visiting the childhood museum in Abilene, Kansas, however, that they list at least his mother as Mennonite, and discuss her heartbreak at her son's military involvement. I wouldn't think the museum at his childhood home would list that incorrectly.

According to Wikipedia, his parents left the Mennonites to join the JW's when he was 5. JW's are as staunchly pacifist as Mennonites. Believe me, a JW mother would be heartbroken if her son decided to attend West Point. My JW grandfather was devestated by his son's decision to join the army.

--------------------
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Loyhargil
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
[QUOTE]According to Wikipedia, his parents left the Mennonites to join the JW's when he was 5. JW's are as staunchly pacifist as Mennonites. Believe me, a JW mother would be heartbroken if her son decided to attend West Point. My JW grandfather was devestated by his son's decision to join the army.

Oh, I didn't mean JW's weren't pacifist. Our neighbors and my best friend growing up were JW, and I attended services quite often with them when I was younger.

My only point was, the Presidential Museum, and from what I've seen also the Library, in Abilene, Kansas makes no mention of his parents being JW's, but does have a discussion about his mother's pacifist leanings being directly related to her Mennonite beliefs.

Ike wasn't born in Abilene, but he lived there from the age of two until, I believe, he left for West Point. I've been through the library and museum a couple of times and read a fair amount of information there (because I'm one of those kinds of museum geeks), and have seen only the Mennonite reference, no reference to JW. So unless I missed something, if his parents were JW, his own official Presidential Library and Museum make no reference to it.

I remember vividly, however, that they discussed the Mennonite pacifism being a bone of contention between him and his mother at the time he went to West Point. Being college age, that would obviously be past the age of 5.

Incidentally, Ike himself only went to West Point because it was a free education. Until that time, he and his brother had a deal that he would work a year to send his brother to college, then his brother would work a year, and they'd trade off. By going to West Point, he would not have to pay tuition. He didn't count at that time on WWI.

Edited because there's a museum AND a library there, and I thought I'd distinguish a bit for clarity.

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Bender: Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee.

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Bill
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
I never heard any of these rumors growing up JW. The big thing then was "famous people who are really JW's, or whose family are." Michael Jackson, of course -- remember the disclaimer he added to the "Thriller" video? A woman named Teresa Graves who was one of the bikini-clad dancers on "Laugh-In" and later had a short-lived series called "Get Christie Love." Dwight Eisenhower's parents -- he was raised a JW.

quote:

Many Jehovah Witnesses were led to believe that the final battle of Armageddon would take place in 1975. (What exactly "led to believe" means I don't know. Does it mean some leader actually chose this date, or just strongly hinted at it?)

Strong hints, as I recall -- I was 13 at the time. The organization leadership would say that 1975 was a significant date, but they were vague about what was going to happen. The rank-and-file ran with it, though.

quote:
But, it is growing again. Amazing how fast people can forget.
Assuming that the people joining now even know about it. It's not exactly part of the welcome package.

I remember 1975 well. In the early 70's (1971-74) I was in junior high school (age 12-15) and I went to school with an avid Witness who would try to get his classmates to come to his church's meetings. A lot of members thought something major was going to happen in 1975 and there was in general a flurry of recruiting activity.

You are right that Witnesses today do not dwell on the past predictions. The Witness book "Life Everlasting - in Freedom of the Sons of God" which noted the 1975 date has since been discontinued. But, in fairness, some Witnesses who came to speak with me did mention that there have been past errors; however, they pointed out that they are only humans; therefore, such errors would not make their belief system wrong.

This link has a number of quotes from their publications regarding the date:

http://quotes.watchtower.ca/1975.htm

Thanks.

Bill

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eif
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quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago:
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world ~ those who understand binary and those who do not. On another board, I posted "11 kinds," just to test, and nobody corrected me. I was afraid to do that here. [Wink]

Signora Del "Chicken" Drago

There are 11 types of people in this world; those who understand Roman Numerals and those who don't.

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Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History.

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The Goof
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You are all wrong, John Denver used JW's for target practice, he did not want to let his sniper skills get rusty.

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid,than to open it and remove all doubt."- Mark Twain

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GenYus
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Right. Because he and Mr Rodgers used to bet a kilo of high-grade Columbian cocaine on who was the better sharpshooter.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Loyhargil:
My only point was, the Presidential Museum, and from what I've seen also the Library, in Abilene, Kansas makes no mention of his parents being JW's, but does have a discussion about his mother's pacifist leanings being directly related to her Mennonite beliefs.

Ike wasn't born in Abilene, but he lived there from the age of two until, I believe, he left for West Point. I've been through the library and museum a couple of times and read a fair amount of information there (because I'm one of those kinds of museum geeks), and have seen only the Mennonite reference, no reference to JW. So unless I missed something, if his parents were JW, his own official Presidential Library and Museum make no reference to it.

I remember vividly, however, that they discussed the Mennonite pacifism being a bone of contention between him and his mother at the time he went to West Point. Being college age, that would obviously be past the age of 5.

You might be interested in this document from the list of holdings of the Dwight D. Eisenhower library.

quote:
The records of the Abilene Congregation of the Jehovah's Witnesses and related materials were donated to the Eisenhower Library in 2002 by Mr. Richard A. McIntyre, a circuit overseer for the Jehovah's Witnesses from Topeka, Kansas.
and:

quote:
The records indicate that Ida Eisenhower was a regular and faithful participant in the activities of the Abilene Ecclesia of the International Bible Students Association (later Jehovah's Witnesses) from 1920 to 1937.
Without impugning the scholarly reputation of the library or the museum, I can imagine it being decided that his mother's pacifism would be more easily, and less controversially, explained to the public by citing her Mennonite beliefs than her JW beliefs. After all, the above source also says:

quote:
This particular aspect of the life of David and Ida Eisenhower has provoked considerable speculation, rumor, and conflicting accounts in the past.
It's also well established that Eisenhower and his brothers left the faith as adults and strongly opposed some of its teachings. Presumably, that would have influenced how Eisenhower himself chose to describe his childhood, and by extension, how it's presented in the library and museum.

--------------------
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asnakeny
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quote:
Originally posted by Cobra4J:

Many Jehovah Witnesses were led to believe that the final battle of Armageddon would take place in 1975. (What exactly "led to believe" means I don't know. Does it mean some leader actually chose this date, or just strongly hinted at it?)Well, it didn't happen, and membership did fall considerably in the late 70s.

For a literary reference, Zadie Smith's novel "White Teeth" begins at an "End of the World" JW New Year's Party in 1975. (I'd post a relevant quote, but alas, I loaned my copy of the book to a friend...)

--------------------
Is here no telephone?

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by asnakeny:
quote:
Originally posted by Cobra4J:

Many Jehovah Witnesses were led to believe that the final battle of Armageddon would take place in 1975. (What exactly "led to believe" means I don't know. Does it mean some leader actually chose this date, or just strongly hinted at it?)Well, it didn't happen, and membership did fall considerably in the late 70s.

For a literary reference, Zadie Smith's novel "White Teeth" begins at an "End of the World" JW New Year's Party in 1975. (I'd post a relevant quote, but alas, I loaned my copy of the book to a friend...)
That sounds like a really boring party.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Unusual Elfin Lights
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
The records indicate that Ida Eisenhower was a regular and faithful participant in the activities of the Abilene Ecclesia of the International Bible Students Association (later Jehovah's Witnesses) from 1920 to 1937.
Without impugning the scholarly reputation of the library or the museum, I can imagine it being decided that his mother's pacifism would be more easily, and less controversially, explained to the public by citing her Mennonite beliefs than her JW beliefs. After all, the above source also says:

quote:
This particular aspect of the life of David and Ida Eisenhower has provoked considerable speculation, rumor, and conflicting accounts in the past.
It's also well established that Eisenhower and his brothers left the faith as adults and strongly opposed some of its teachings. Presumably, that would have influenced how Eisenhower himself chose to describe his childhood, and by extension, how it's presented in the library and museum.

I spent much of my life out in Mennonite Central in Western Manitoba. One of the things that is striking about the Mennonite community is that the term "Mennonite" covers both the religious and cultural existences of the people.

For example, I had a friend with whom I attended class at university. We were taking religious studies and we had a chance to discuss religion. He was a RC as was I, but he kept referring himself as a Mennonite. This was because his ethnic and cultural history formed a significant part of his identity. This could be largely due to the fact that the Mennonites have not really had a land of their own, and have been "kicked out" of every other nation on earth. Not much different than someone calling himself Armenian.

So I could easily see the Eisenhowers leaving the Brethren, and becoming JW, but still keeping her self identifier as Mennonite.

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asnakeny
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by asnakeny:
For a literary reference, Zadie Smith's novel "White Teeth" begins at an "End of the World" JW New Year's Party in 1975. (I'd post a relevant quote, but alas, I loaned my copy of the book to a friend...)

That sounds like a really boring party.
Not for one of the protagonists, who meets his (soon to be) wife at the party (and their child is conceived that night...) [Wink]

--------------------
Is here no telephone?

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by asnakeny:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by asnakeny:
For a literary reference, Zadie Smith's novel "White Teeth" begins at an "End of the World" JW New Year's Party in 1975. (I'd post a relevant quote, but alas, I loaned my copy of the book to a friend...)

That sounds like a really boring party.
Not for one of the protagonists, who meets his (soon to be) wife at the party (and their child is conceived that night...) [Wink]
My mistake. I was extrapolating from my own experience with JW parties!
[Wink]

I may have to get that book out of the library. . .

ETA: LEU, that's a very good point. I've seen the same cultural vs. religious identifiers at work in the Jewish community. In the US, at least, there are many many people who cheris a deep cultural attachment to their Jewish identity but are not religiously observant.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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DannyHaszard
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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WHY-Jehovah's Witnesses don't do Christmas


I was born Jehovah's Witness 1957 3rd generation.Yup,we didn't celebrate Christmas and were miserable the rest of the year too.

The reason JW's don't do Christmas is because their Watchtower leaders say so,the holiday has pagan aspects to it and by rejecting it the Watchtower appears "pure".

This "demand for purity" is one of the 8 marks of a cult.NOW the Watchtower can use this purity diversion to distract from their own immoral practices.


A 'heads up' on the JW's.
Jehovah's Witnesses are a classic high demand destructive cult.

The Watchtower Corporation is a media publishing, real estate development, and convention sponsoring company and their literature all promotes the corporation and those goals.

I have Jehovah's Witnesses family in Naples Florida who practice the Watchtower JW enforced ritual shunning that i have not seen or heard from in 15 years. Yes,you can 'check out anytime you want but you can never leave' they can and will hold your family hostage!

I am not the only one,the 'fraud in the name of God' Watchtower cult has defrauded millions of followers.There are tens of thousands of pages from disgruntled ex-JW's out there in many languages.

When the Watchtower corporate racket is held accountable for their misdeeds they scream religious 'persecution'.
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Jehovah's Witnesses - Who are they and what do they believe?

Knocking at your Door-Benevolent Christians OR Wolves in Sheep's Clothing?

UNLIKE in the case of Christians who are persecuted in other lands for talking about Jesus

Christ,Jehovah's Witnesses are largely persecuted for following the teachings of their corporate headquarters.

The deadbeat Watchtower corporation pays no municipal taxes on their buildings, without even one charity to compensate the community.

[ Think! When was the last time you saw a Jehovah's Witness charity,soup kitchen,mission for the poor? ]

The Watchtower is BIG money, being one of the top 40 New York City Corporations making nearly one billion dollars a year,that's just from one of their many corporations.Worldwide real estate holdings are $200 billion.

The central CORE doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is that Jesus Christ had his second coming in the year 1914.Their entire doctrinal superstructure rest on this date.

Jehovah's Witnesses follow the teachings begun during the second presidency of the Watchtower, when Joseph F. Rutherford took over in a corporate flap and began changing doctrines quickly in the Watchtower belief system.

Rutherford dumped holidays, birthdays and INVENTED an "earthly class" of Witnesses, since only 144,000 of JW elite go to heaven according to their teaching.

The rest, meaning all 99.9% of Witnesses still alive today,will live forever on a cleansed earth, under the rule of the Watchtower corporate headquarter leaders in heaven, who will keep them in line by local elders known as "princes."

If you have been "witnessed to" by Jehovah's Witnesses and you reject their message, you will likely die "shortly" at Armageddon with all the other non-Witnesses, since theirs is the only true religion,and (if they can live up to all the rules) they are the only ones to inhabit this "new earth."

If you believe Witnesses seem rigid now, any non-conformist during the future "cleansed earth" will be directly destroyed by their god. Even now a Witness will be disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for any one of many gaffs,such as smoking, taking a blood transfusion, or even voting.

To even vocally question the teachings of the Jehovah's Witness organization will result in complete cutting off, with family and friends usually being forbidden to talk to them.
The Watchtower is a truly ORWELLIAN world, in a time when Orwellian societies are nearly obsolete.

Are they knocking at your door?
References:

www.freeminds.org
Watchtower information site

www.silentlambs.org Latest child abuse lawsuits against the Watchtower

(footnote-I have heard growing up JW that The Watchtower is the largest landowner in Brooklyn New York?)

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tell the truth and don't be afraid-Danny Haszard usa

Posts: 2 | From: Bangor, Maine | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Chimera
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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JWs are about the only group of people am truly predjudice against. I think they're evil, sorry. I do wish someone would mistake them for a rubber bat and bite their brainwashed heads off. I don't remember the 1974 predicition (I was very young at the time and probably had not yet encountered any), it was listed as one of many "the end of the world as we know it" predictions in the New Years edition of The Skeptic* back in 2000. I found it entirely amusing.

I just think they are a bunch of bitter folks. Perhaps its because I'm an atheist but I can't see writing of family members or not attending their weddings simply because they don't share your fairly recent myth. They also seem like selfish asshats. No birthdays, no celibration of ones country.... even if you think god is good why would he be against celibrating the life of a loved one as well?

I've had more run ins with JWs than I'd like to recall. One of the stupidest (actually one of many dumb mean things) was when a JW tried to get snowmen and stocking decorations removed from other people's offices where I used to work. Ok, them outing Santa to stranger's children in grocery store lines or not attending their own child's/grandchild's marrage and dissowning them for leaving the church/hall? also rank up their on my reasons JWs are evil list. All of the above I have personally witness and all of it was suposedly done in the name of the JW god. It is honestly the most bitter belief I can think of... and as others have said most don't even think heaven will be their reward for being a nasty person for god on earth. I just don't get it.

What I do get are two JWs that come to my home nearly every other week. They usually come on Thursdays (I never could get the hang of Thursdays). Actually I think the come on Thursdays because my parents often visit on that day and my dad opens the door to them. He doesn't believe one should ignore someone knocking at your door if you have your windows open or some other reason that allows vistors to see you are at home. My mom supports my dad and blames me for telling them I didn't belong to a church the first time they stopped by. She still thinks that you can avoid them by claiming to be Catholic but even my dad believes that no longer works. I know I should tell them, in no uncertain terms, to stuff it... however I have a bitter old neighbour that tries to get me in trouble with the city on a regular basis and the city employee happens to be a relative of the JWs. Its either be semi-polite to them or to have my whole home constantly scrutinized for any slight violation. Even though there is usually nothing to be found its still embarassing to continually get investigated. After about 3 unfounded investigations about my dog (within about a months time) I called the office and was basically told tough shit or more acurately "we have to come out if a complaint is made to investigate the situation". With my luck the damned JWs are reading this and I'll get a visit from the city again tommorrow.

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"The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?"
Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun'

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asnakeny
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by DannyHaszard:


(footnote-I have heard growing up JW that The Watchtower is the largest landowner in Brooklyn New York?)

I believe the largest landowner in Brooklyn is the MTA (one of those neat factoids I picked up when following the news about the transit strike.)

#2 would be this guy Vinnie in my neighborhood, who I heard shouting in the streets last night, "You can't mess with me! I own the whole freaking neighborhood!", and I was not prepared (or willing) to refute his statement...
[Razz]

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Is here no telephone?

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jokunok
"Repaint and thin no more!"


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Sorry for your bad experiences, Chimera, although you're sounding like the one that's a little bitter.

Can't say that I've ever 'outed' Santa or went on any anti-decoration crusades, despite being the selfish asshat that I am.

I'll be sure to call the city about your dog, though. You should be hearing from them soon.

Just for the heck if it, here's a couple of official JW sites. Could possibly answer anyone's questions about why we do some of the things that we do (or don't do).

http://watchtower.org

http://jw-media.org

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Chimera
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Ok, I'll admit I am bitter.

My negative experience with JWs were people who disowned their child, a woman that wanted to make my work place dull and deary, other grinches wishing to bash holidays and tell strangers there is no Santa, and the tag team with the city official who I feel threatened by... oh, and the JW man that murderded my son (and his JW family and friends that don't give a damn and expected me not to care either, luckily the killer JW is now in prison). Not to mention all the other stories I've heard of the sect.
My positive experiences with them are nill.

I'm sure some are fine individuals but there seems to be a lot of bad apples in that bunch.

ETA: JWs are the only group of people that I don't say anything positive about because not a one of them has ever given me any reason to. (illusionist are a very distant second when it comes to my dislike of a group of people in general).

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"The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?"
Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun'

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Mama Duck
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Chimera:
ETA: JWs are the only group of people that I don't say anything positive about because not a one of them has ever given me any reason to. (illusionist are a very distant second when it comes to my dislike of a group of people in general).

Aren't illusionists and magicians the same thing? I thought you liked magicians.

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There is no interpersonal problem so big that it can't be solved with a suitably large amount of high explosives. ~ Bufungla

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chiefs_lady
Deck the Malls


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I've had a few run-ins with JWs also, the knocking at the door selling their tracts, and when I was a personnel administrator at a company in California, several JWs who refused to give me their birthdays for company records. I learned very early that when the JWs knock on my door, I just tell them I'm Jewish and they leave skid marks and fall all over each other when they try to get away from my house.

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The greatest good you can do for another is not just share your riches, but to reveal to him his own. -Benjamin Disraeli
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. -my friend Mary Ellen

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Chimera:
I'm sure some are fine individuals but there seems to be a lot of bad apples in that bunch.

Chimera, since I've never said it before, please let me express my sympathy for your terrible loss.

Thank you for making the remark above despite your terrible experiences with individual JW's. I like to believe that my mother is one of the fine individuals. She has, AFAIK, never deliberately harmed another human being, or interfered with anyone's attempt to deocorate for a holiday, or told anybody else's child that there is no Santa (not even mine). She occasionally proselytizes my child, a practice I find rude, but I tolerate it because she is my mother.

quote:
Danny Haszard posted:
To even vocally question the teachings of the Jehovah's Witness organization will result in complete cutting off, with family and friends usually being forbidden to talk to them.

Not necessarily. Two of my aunts, one of my brothers, several of my cousins, and I have all not only vocally questioned, but left the JW faith. None of us have been shunned by our family members, nor have our family members been shunned for refusing to shun us. JW's who are not family members might choose not to speak to us when they see us, but I don't necessarily see that as a problem. [Wink]

In general, I find it's best not to judge a group of people based on the behavior of a small subset of that group, however repugnant that behavior is. According to Religious Tolerance.org, there were 6.5 million members as of mid-2004, so anyone who's met less than several million JW's has met a small subset of the group.

Blaming all JW's for one JW's crime is like blaming all Muslims for 9/11.

Religious Tolerance.org, BTW, is a good source for objective information about many religions. As a former JW who does not support the teachings and objects to some of the practices of the group, I have been appalled by the inaccuracy and hostility expressed on some of the anti-JW sites run by former JW's.

As a freethinker, I am also puzzled by the willingness of many former JW's to embrace more orthodox conformism as a supposedly "freeing" alternative to the JW organization's unorthodox conformism. It doesn't feel "free" to me, but YMMV.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by nclinnm:
I learned very early that when the JWs knock on my door, I just tell them I'm Jewish and they leave skid marks and fall all over each other when they try to get away from my house.

Wimps! That wouldn't even phase my Mom. [Smile]

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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