I wanted to follow up on JT, although I don't know how to do the Greek. In the New testament, there are four or five words that get translated as "wine," but the most common by far is oinos (Strong's 3631), the root of the English word "wine." This word is also the basis of the Greek word oinophlugia, which means drunkeness. It is this word that is used in the metaphor about putting new wine into old skins, a metaphor that clearly refers to fermentation. In Ephesians 5:18 and throughout Revelations, this is the word used in the phrase "drunk with wine." And it is oinos that Jesus turns the water into at Cana.
So, yeah, my vote is for wishful thinking and revisionism.
Posts: 330 | From: New Haven, VT | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by lawguy: regarding the OP, I have heard the story recited therein.
I am what could be accurately described as an evangelical fundamentalist, or better yet, and more accurate- "born again", a "Jesus freak" if you will...if you like labels, which I don't.
Having grown up in that religious tradition (and have chosen it as my own), I never heard the "grape juice as wine" story until I was in a college when a guest speaker espoused that view. I saw it then as pure unadulterated revisionist biblical history then, and I still do.
The Bible has plenty to say about alcoholic beverages and mostly what is has to say is that overindulgence is stupid and can lead to bad things. The Bible urges self control. That said, I do not drink- at all. Why bother?
I am also a Christian, same as you, born again, fundamentalist, whatever label someone wants to choose.
I grew up hearing the "grape juice" and "watered down" explanation. I also grew up hearing that the Bible says "don't drink, ever" and "gambling is a sin" and probably some others that I can't remember right off hand, but when I was old enough to understand and search for myself, I couldn't find some of the things I was told.
I learned pretty quickly that people change things to say whatever they want and when you confront them, they usually get angry or just simply refuse to say anything.
As to your last point: IMO (which is worth what you paid for it) there is nothing sinful about one drink, so the only reason I "bother" is because there are a couple of drinks that I like the taste of.
That said, I only drink an alcoholic drink maybe 3 or 4 times a year, and even then, only one, maybe two at the most.
-------------------- Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"
Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go. Posts: 1820 | From: Memphis, TN | Registered: Sep 2005
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