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Author Topic: The final Calvin and Hobbes
BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes:
...If you know anything about Bill Watterson, you know that he would not compromise any of his work let alone the finale to 10 years of labor…Hell, he wouldn’t even allow any merchandising at all for fear of it exploiting his ideas which cost him conservatively about 10 million a year in income.


By ending the strip the way he did, he in a way kept their lives going, by making it seem as though their lives go on, just without us seeing them. "It's a magical world ol' buddy... let's go exploring!" And Calvin and Hobbes depart on their sled, leaving us in the real world dumbfounded...not being able to contemplate the fact that they're gone.

Welcome to the boards and a great first post.

I can't help but think that had he done something like what was suggested by the column you posted, those rabid fans would be just as quick to defend it.

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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Ah, I knew I'd find it eventually...

Badly scanned from The Complete Calvin and Hobbes (it's only two panels from a Sunday strip, so I think I'm okay here copyright-wise):

 -

The first one is hard to see, because it was too near the inside of the book to scan properly, but the second one is clear.

ETA: It's the January 7, 1990 strip, page 233 of volume 2, should anyone wish to see the full strip.

--------------------
Come on, come on - spin a little tighter
Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


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Rebochan the Retail Reindeer
Good King Wal-Mart


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Now, to give a proper response.

First, I'm seeing a lot of anecdotal evidence presented on these drugged kids. For the zombies - there could be anything at hand. They could possibly not all be on Ritalin, there's plenty of reasons for children to be on medication at lunch time that might have nothing to do with ADHD. The time of day - I've always found it harder to focus right after lunch time both on and off Ritalin. Second, 1-2% of all children is roughly one million children. For Beach - how many kids is "every kid in school?" There's uneven population distribution, there's a personal bias, or there could be overprescription. Do you know them personally and know that they personally are not benefitting from treatment? Certainly the best indicator is if their grades go up after starting it - otherwise, drugging them into submission would have no effect.

I am trying to find a study that didn't just focus on Ritalin - googling this topic is tricky because there's a lot of Scientology-backed sites clogging up the results. But since Ritalin is still the most commonly prescribed drug for treating ADHD, there's still legitimacy in posting numbers related to it.

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"One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes

"Vote Republican! We won't burn you at the stake for your religious beliefs or slaughter your family and steal your land." -- Ramblin' Dave

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Allison
Tennessee Ernie Ford


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quote:
Originally posted by Everlasting Rebochan:
Now, to give a proper response.

First, I'm seeing a lot of anecdotal evidence presented on these drugged kids. ...

/sarcasm rant on

But Rebochan, don't you understand that those of us in the field of psychology exist for the sole purpose of labelling people, giving them medications that don't work and are harmful, and laughing at them the whole time? I mean, hasn't it been made completely clear that the entire discipline of psychology was invented for no other reason than to create generations of evil psychiatrists, psychologists and therapists who either are completely incompetent or actively evil and who gain great delight in deliberately causing harm and damage to anyone we can find?

Really, Rebochan, get with the program! I mean, it's a fact that nobody ever has been helped in any way, shape, or form with anything that the psychology field has ever researched. Every single person who's ever been diagnosed with any form of mental illness is actually just an eccentric person who needs to be left alone and not drugged into conformity with consensual reality. If anyone, be it child or adult, exhibits any form of behavior or mental process that in any way creates a difficulty for them, it's clearly the fault of the field of psychology! The world was a much better place before all us manipulative little mind gamers came along and started trying to figure out if there was any way we might be able to do things like alleviate suffering.

/sarcasm rant mode off

Allison

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France

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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by Everlasting Rebochan:
Now, to give a proper response.

First, I'm seeing a lot of anecdotal evidence presented on these drugged kids. For the zombies - there could be anything at hand. They could possibly not all be on Ritalin, there's plenty of reasons for children to be on medication at lunch time that might have nothing to do with ADHD. The time of day - I've always found it harder to focus right after lunch time both on and off Ritalin. Second, 1-2% of all children is roughly one million children. For Beach - how many kids is "every kid in school?" There's uneven population distribution, there's a personal bias, or there could be overprescription. Do you know them personally and know that they personally are not benefitting from treatment? Certainly the best indicator is if their grades go up after starting it - otherwise, drugging them into submission would have no effect.

I am trying to find a study that didn't just focus on Ritalin - googling this topic is tricky because there's a lot of Scientology-backed sites clogging up the results. But since Ritalin is still the most commonly prescribed drug for treating ADHD, there's still legitimacy in posting numbers related to it.

It is true that there were other kids I knew going to go take asthma medicine or the like - it's not like this stuff never got brought up on the playground or at lunch. However, the kids themselves said they were on Ritalin or said that the medicine was to calm them down. My parents, at parent events, talked to other parents of my classmates who mentioned it. It may be anecdotal, but that doesn't mean it never happens.

As for the numbers, of course there is still legitimacy in posting them - it's just that numbers don't really disprove anything that has been said here.

I'm not arguing that some kids need help or that ADHD doesn't exist - just that the changes in some kids seem extreme and that when I was in school it seemed like a very large number of students had learning problems being solved by prescriptions. I know that certain drugs affect some people differently than others - maybe I just had classes with a lot of kids still adjusting to the medication?

Allison, I get why you might have a problem with this, but I'd like rather see your serious input on it as a psychologist. Have you ever seen kids who became glazed-over while on Ritalin or similar drugs? Or did I just imagine 3rd and 4th grade?

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This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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Allison
Tennessee Ernie Ford


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quote:
Originally posted by Astra:
Allison, I get why you might have a problem with this, but I'd like rather see your serious input on it as a psychologist. Have you ever seen kids who became glazed-over while on Ritalin or similar drugs? Or did I just imagine 3rd and 4th grade?

While I teach Human Growth and Development (among other things), my clinical and research experience has been solely with adults with severe mental illnesses. Therefore, my personal professional experiences have not involved working with children. I can only apply my experiences indirectly.

I hope it's obvious that I'm not saying that no child (or adult, for that matter) ever gets misdiagnosed or mistreated. Nor am I saying that no treatment ever has negative side effects.

I'm responding to the ongoing statements I've heard or read, both here on this message board and in real life, that 1) psychology is bullshit; 2) psychologists don't know what they're talking about, ever; 3) psychologists randomly treat people for no good reason, and always do more harm than good; 4) there's a worldwide pharmaceutical/psychology conspiracy to drug our children into stupidity, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

In my experience with adults, often people go through a period of adjustment on their medications before 1) side effects diminish or 2) the most effective medication or combination fo medications can be found. During this period, it's certainly possible for people to experience a feeling of being "glazed over" or other side effects. I would imagine that this is the same for children. I would also imagine that in children for whom the medications is correct and working properly, those side effects diminish. IF THEY DON'T, then obviously something should be done - a new medication tried, or no medication used and some other intervention explored.

The problem with anything to do with psychology, psychiatry, medication, or any other aspect of this issue is that people are all too willing to find the examples of times when treatment doesn't work, or does indeed cause a problem to become worse, but are completely unwilling to consider any situations in which treatment has been helpful or beneficial. When treatment doesn't work, people notice. When treatment DOES work, people DON'T notice or don't pay attention.

People absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, can and do experience negative effects of treatment (whether medication or therapy or both). When that happens, it's tragic and those of us with ethics and morals who work in the field want to know why so we can prevent it from happening again. Are there "bad people" in the field of psychology? You bet, just like there are bad people in every facet of life. However, it seems that the prevailing opinion is that the entire field of psychology and psychiatry consists of nothing but bad people who want to harm everyone they come in contact with.

I resent the implication that I went into this field to screw people up.

RE: ADD/ADHD in children. There are descriptions of behavior that fit the diagnostic criteria of this syndrome in the medical annals that go as far back as 1854. Is there a modern epidemic of the diagnosis of the syndrome? I can't answer that, although I do know that "back in the day" when I was in elementary school, it's much more likely that these children would have been labelled "troublemakers," "juvenile delinquents" or "stupid," and received nothing but negativity. Probably not all children who are diagnosed with the sydnrome actually have it, but that's a far cry from saying that NONE of them have it.

Many people don't know that in order for a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD to be made, the symptomes MUST be present in at least two settings, one of which MUST be a setting other than school. If a child manifests the behaviors only in school, that does NOT constitute a diagnosis according to the diagnostic criteria in the DSM-IV.

Also, teachers do NOT get to diagnose the disorder. They get to refer, provide information, or collect data, but the diagnosis has to be made by a professional in the field of psychology, and if there are examples of a teacher making a diagnosis that's supported by the school, then that's a problem with that system.

The system isn't perfect, and I'd be the last person to argue that it is. However, critics of psychology appear incapable of ever recognizing that any good has ever come out of the field, and I'm getting tired of "turning the other cheek" whenever I encounter this attitude.

Allison

--------------------
If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France

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Hobbes
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by chillas:
Ah, I knew I'd find it eventually...

Badly scanned from The Complete Calvin and Hobbes (it's only two panels from a Sunday strip, so I think I'm okay here copyright-wise):

 -

The first one is hard to see, because it was too near the inside of the book to scan properly, but the second one is clear.

ETA: It's the January 7, 1990 strip, page 233 of volume 2, should anyone wish to see the full strip.



Chillas, please don't flame me if there was something I didn't get in your post, but I'm not quite sure what the point you were making with the strip you posted. If you were only trying to show an example where Hobbes is shown as a stuffed animal, IMO that isn't really relevant.


Whenever anyone besides Calvin (and over the 10 year span of the strip's life it happened a lot) saw Hobbes, they always saw a floppy stuffed animal. That was kind of a major point of the strip...Is Hobbes a toy that Calvin has turned into an imaginary friend, or a real tiger that only Calvin could see?

And if he was only a toy stuffed animal, a whole batch of other questions came up. Things like when Hobbes ambushed Calvin and then he went into the house, he was constantly trying to explain to his unconvinced parents that Hobbes had done it. And then there was one of my favorite strips of all time, where Calvin and Hobbes are playing, and Hobbes assists Calvin's attempt to become a Houdini-style escape artist by tying him to a chair. Calvin, however, cannot subsequently escape, and his dad, irritated that he has to now untie the knots, keeps asking Calvin how he could do this to himself. How did he get that way? His dad assumes that Calvin tied himself up somehow, so well that he couldn't get out. Calvin explains that Hobbes did this to him and he tries to place the blame on Hobbes entirely. Of course, in true Watterson style, it is never resolved in the strip and it leaves us as the reader to decide for ourselves.


In te tenth anniversary book, Watterson said, "Hobbes is more about the subjective nature of reality than dolls coming to life Calvin sees Hobbes one way, and everyone else sees Hobbes another way."



--------------------
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
-Calvin


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Squoval
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes:
Chillas, please don't flame me if there was something I didn't get in your post, but I'm not quite sure what the point you were making with the strip you posted. If you were only trying to show an example where Hobbes is shown as a stuffed animal, IMO that isn't really relevant.

quote:
Originally posted by chillas:
There was one Calvin and Hobbes that I recall in which Hobbes was "live" and another character was in the panel. It involved Calvin and Hobbes sledding by in the background with Susie building a snowman in the foreground; however, Susie was not looking in their direction.

(edited to fix spelling)

Welcome to the boards.

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I can't believe it's not Square!

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the Virgin Marrya
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Comment: I've heard that when the comic strip Calvin and Hobbes ended, the
original 'last strip' was rejected, and the "let's go exploring" strip ran
instead.

The Let's Go Exploring" strip

Because it took me ages to find it, and then I realised that it didn't matter, so I'm posting it anyway [Razz]

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Windows cannot open this file. To open this file correctly, defenestrate, then try running the file again...

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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Allison, thanks, I truly appreciate your insight. [Smile]

I'm sorry people blow off your profession - I know firsthand how valuable you people are.

Your comments on the teacher diagnosis reminded me of a couple of teachers at that school - the place had a few really great educators and an abnormally large minority of atrociouos ones. Unfortunately, I kept ending up with the worst of the worst. Their solutions to dealing with kids who fell on either side of their idea of "normal" was to do everything possible to have them booted out of their classroom and into the LD classes or down a grade, or to make their parents think there was something truly "wrong" with their child and that they needed to be put into another school. It was rather funny when the children they had problems with (myself included) performed just fine in another teacher's classroom or ended up in accelerated programs instead.

The ADD/ADHD stuff was all over the news at the time, and I vaguely recall one of the nearby districts getting flamed by parents for basically telling them to put their child on medication or the child would be expelled - the case must not have made it to the courts, I can't find a legal cite. Rebochan, aren't you from Central Florida? Do you remember anything like that around 1993 or 94? There were so many danged stupid things going on in the Brevard Co. district at the time, I could only absorb so many :roll:

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This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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Faith
Happy Holly Days


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Could anyone recommend a good starting off point for someone (me obviously) who has somehow always let C&H pass them by? The warmth and admiration for this strip makes me feel that I'm missing something!

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"You watched it. You can't UNWATCH it."

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Senior
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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The Authoritative Calvin and Hobbes is a good place to start. Any of the Calvin and Hobbes collections are good, since there isn't an ongoing story line that lasts more than six strips.

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Ad astra per asparagus.

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes:

Chillas, please don't flame me if there was something I didn't get in your post, but I'm not quite sure what the point you were making with the strip you posted. If you were only trying to show an example where Hobbes is shown as a stuffed animal, IMO that isn't really relevant.

Reading the thread may have proven helpful to you. Had you done this, you would have seen posts such as the following:

quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
Okay, I thought I was going crazy until I found some backup. I was certain that Hobbes is often shown as a stuffed animal whenever anyone other than Calvin is around.

And:

quote:
Originally posted by Ramblin' Dave. Dry. Crisp. Witty.:
I'm pretty sure that Hobbes did always appear as a stuffed toy and nothing more when other people were around. I can't think of any strips where he didn't.

As for my post being relevant - the thread has drifted a great deal and there are several ideas going here at once. What I posted is relevant to one of those thoughts.

Finally, if you don't want to be flamed, you may wish to consider making your posts sound a touch more civil - not calling someone elses post irrelevant, for instance. Just a suggestion.

Welcome to the boards.

--------------------
Come on, come on - spin a little tighter
Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


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YudanTaiteki
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by AliBaba:
This is driving me batty. I'm absolutely positive that the idea of Calvin seeing Hobbes as a stuffed tiger like everyone else had was proposed by a well-known columnist at the time that Watterson announced his intent to stop doing C&H. I want to say it was Dave Barry, but I don't think that's right.

It's not that out of the question that someone would propose this -- at the time C&H was ending, I thought the final strip would be something like that. I remember actually being disappointed in the final strip, although now I appreciate it more (I don't know if it's because I'm older or not).
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Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Astra:

Your comments on the teacher diagnosis reminded me of a couple of teachers at that school - the place had a few really great educators and an abnormally large minority of atrociouos ones.

Mine too. I too often get into discussions that leave people with the impression that I hate teachers. I don't, but I did have more than my share of terrible ones when I was a kid, and unfortunately that has left a bad taste in my mouth w/r/t memories of that part of my life. I was in school a few years before the big ADD/ADHD "epidemic," and I wasn't hyperactive or anything. But I certainly know all too well how it feels to be attacked for not being "normal" when you haven't done anything wrong.

One of the things I loved (and still do love) about Calvin and Hobbes was how he dealt so well with that sort of thing by resorting to his vibrant imagination and enjoying life outside school with his best friend. In real life, though, I knew a lot of kids who acted out like that in school and mostly got away with it because the teacher thought they were funny. It made life a lot more difficult for the other kids, and there really wasn't any recourse for us. Which sucks.

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Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you
Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused
But just now it's enough to be walking with you
Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins

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Hobbes
I Saw Three Shipments


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Chillas, Please accept my appology, you're absolutly right...I didn't mean for last night's post to come off as harsh as it did. (I guess that's what I get for not going back an re-reading it before I posted)


Anyway, thanks for welcoming me to the Board and I'll try not to come off as a jerk in the future.

--------------------
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
-Calvin

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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No harm! Apology accepted! [Smile]

--------------------
Come on, come on - spin a little tighter
Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


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Jimmy Jive
I Saw Three Shipments


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I like the way the OP describes the supposed last strip.

With Calvin sprouting all kinds of philosophy on the sled or something, and the last panel is Hobbes as a stuffed tiger. As if at that moment, Calvin figured out for himself "life", so to speak, and no longer needed an imaginary friend to help him through it. He grew up. Sad, but in a warm way.

Sorry, that was entirely OT, but I felt compelled.

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Like Johnny says, I walk the line...

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RingKeeper
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Something about the rumoured last strip strikes me as fake. Maybe it's the way the speech balloons are arranged. And I have the feeling I've seen those drawings in another strip. Now I have to look through all the books to be sure. Darn. [Big Grin]

In any case, I'm glad it wasn't the last strip. It's heartbreaking. [Frown]

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There are just some things a dog can't explain to a monkey.

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Squoval
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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This?
 -

No one presented that as a rumored last strip. It was presented as a spoof.

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I can't believe it's not Square!

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Brandi
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Yes, I believe I said that on the first page of this topic.
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RingKeeper
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Whoops. Man, I really have to stop coming here so early in the morning.

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There are just some things a dog can't explain to a monkey.

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NobbyNobbs
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Astra:


As for the "zombification," all I know is that the behavior of the kids I was in school turned very odd when most started their daily marches to the office. Squirmy boys turned to sitting at their desks with glazed-over expressions. I saw that happen with my own eyes, repeatedly. If it helps them in the long run, that's great, but it was freaking creepy for me to watch the changes at the time.

And I seem to remember 4-foot snowstorms every single winter as a child. But it didn't happen. Memory is a strange thing.

I teach at a school specifically designed for kids with ADD, ADHD, dyslexia, and other learning differences. I'd estimate that 15-20% of our school population is on Ritalin or a similar drug. So while this is anecdotal evidence, it's a whole lot of anecdotal evidence. Our kids aren't zombies. Anything but...the drugs help them to focus more, concentrate more, etc.

ADD stands for "Attention Deficit Disorder", but it's a misnomer. There's not a deficit of attention, there's too much. The kids pay attention to everything, which means they can't concentrate on anything. They'll notice that Mark is chewing gum and there's leaves blowing past the window and the date on the board is wrong and the teacher just said something important and John passed a note to Mary and.....

The drugs help them to filter out the excess input and concentrate on what they choose to concentrate on. Not everyone needs them, and not everyone benefits fromthem. But those who use them certainly don't "zombify".

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Back in the days before electricity, we were forced to watch TV by candlelight.

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by marr--ya want some?:
The Let's Go Exploring" strip

Because it took me ages to find it, and then I realised that it didn't matter, so I'm posting it anyway [Razz]

I still get choked up when I read that strip. God how I miss Calvin and Hobbes!!

The strip where Calvin is drugged into losing Hobbes is quite sad - and I am happy to know that it is a fake. Phew! Between that strip, and the one mentioned in the OP, that would have taken the magic out of everything that is Calvin. Hobbes is real in the same vein as Santa Clause is real, and Mickey Mouse is real... it is the magic involved.
______________________________

Now, on to the derailment:

My mother's last year of teaching third grade, she had 22 students. She expressed her joy at being able to retire, and her consternation at her students for the over-drugging. At 11:25 each morning, her class was scheduled to go to the nurse and get their Ritalin. At 11:25, she was left with TWO students in her classroom - twenty were on the drug.

In 1997, more than 60% of the student population of her K-12 school (total students: approx 450) were on Ritalin.

You can't tell me that that many kids needed drugs. No matter how else northern Wisconsin is screwed up, it ain't THAT bad.

Now, on to my other anecdote.

My SIL adopted two kids from Russia - and both were diagnosed by overzealous COUNSELORS as being ADD/ADHD. My (Registered Nurse) SIL did some checking and decided that it was best - and now both kids are on Ritalin.

Both are doing VERY well. The only problems arise when they don't get their meds on time... the emotional jags are HORRIBLE.

SO, I have tales on both sides. I would have hated to see Calvin medicated. We would have lost an icon!

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Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...

Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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LadyLockeout
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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When my best friend (now husband) and I heard that Calvin and Hobbes was being discontinued, we were very depressed for awhile. We used to sit around reading those books together. We started discussing what we would like to see for a last strip. I said I would like it if it were a full page color spread (impossible, but wishful thinking is nice!) of all the highlights of the comic over the past years, and the next to last panel would be an adult Calvin sitting at a desk with a ratty stuffed tiger, flipping through a photo album, and then the last one would be Calvin the adult sitting at the table still flipping through the photo album, except now Hobbes is standing next to him saying something like "C'mon Buddy. We're not through yet"

My husband's wish was very simple. "I want Calvin to have a birthday. C'mon. Susie Derkins has had like...four!"

[Smile]

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Katesune: We still can't find the way to albuquerque, and glisp won't stop to ask for directions.
Glisp42: Of course not. I know where I'm going, I just don't know where I am right now

Twisted Links

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Rebochan the Retail Reindeer
Good King Wal-Mart


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quote:
Originally posted by Astra:
The ADD/ADHD stuff was all over the news at the time, and I vaguely recall one of the nearby districts getting flamed by parents for basically telling them to put their child on medication or the child would be expelled - the case must not have made it to the courts, I can't find a legal cite. Rebochan, aren't you from Central Florida? Do you remember anything like that around 1993 or 94? There were so many danged stupid things going on in the Brevard Co. district at the time, I could only absorb so many :roll:

Oh, there's always stupid things going on in Brevard.

I never heard of a lawsuit, but I was also 9 in 1993, so it may have been something I missed. I know that some of my teachers in 1992 essentially tried to strongarm my mother into putting me on medication. Oh no, they had no medical proof. My mom got a hunch about this "conference" and sent my father ahead instead - he is a very imposing person and these women had never met him before. Essentially, he pretended to take notes the entire time under the pretense of discussing them with a lawyer and they all backed down. For all I know they were getting wind of that suit at the time.

See, here's the thing - in a screwy way, they were right, but for all the wrong reasons. It was another two years before I was treated for ADHD, and it was at the consensus of both my pediatrician, my guidance counselor (one of the few good souls in that hellhole), and a licensed psychologist. I was able to get the Ritalin through my pediatrician at the time so the extra step of also being evaluated by a psychiatrist was omitted, but I also regularly saw the psychologist to evaluate and supplement the medical side.

But these were all people who were interested in my health, and none of this ever got moving earlier because these overzealous morons scared my parents away from the problem. I can believe that some people have been strong armed into medicating children needlessly, but I can't believe that the entire thing is a hoax either or that people should not be given help because of some half-arsed notion of "stifling their creativity." The numbers don't point to millions of kids on drugs yet.

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"One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes

"Vote Republican! We won't burn you at the stake for your religious beliefs or slaughter your family and steal your land." -- Ramblin' Dave

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Auburn Red
I Saw Three Shipments


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I don;'t have much of an opinion about Ritalin, except I was once misdiagnosed by an overeager but well meaning first grade teacher with Hyperactivity (this was before it was called ADHD), though I was never given medication they felt that I should get held back so I could re-learn social skills or something. But then again, I have seen it work for a couple of kids like this one girl who is a friend of my sisters and really is ADHD and was completely out of control, but she got the treatment and became much more mature and well adjusted. So, I would say it works on some kids, but doesn't on others.

Now about the Calvin and Hobbes strip: I like the strip that aired much better it leaves things open ended so people can still make their own opinions about Hobbes' identity, but I also think that it says that we don't have to give up our childish things and beliefs. There is a part of us that can still be forever young and childlike and "go exploring." We don't have to surrender everything we believe to go into depressing adulthood, instead we can carry on those imaginative creative feelings of our youth (Of course this is coming from the girl who has PBS Kids playing in the background. [Big Grin] )

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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by NobbyNobbs:
quote:
Originally posted by Astra:


As for the "zombification," all I know is that the behavior of the kids I was in school turned very odd when most started their daily marches to the office. Squirmy boys turned to sitting at their desks with glazed-over expressions. I saw that happen with my own eyes, repeatedly. If it helps them in the long run, that's great, but it was freaking creepy for me to watch the changes at the time.

And I seem to remember 4-foot snowstorms every single winter as a child. But it didn't happen. Memory is a strange thing.

I teach at a school specifically designed for kids with ADD, ADHD, dyslexia, and other learning differences. I'd estimate that 15-20% of our school population is on Ritalin or a similar drug. So while this is anecdotal evidence, it's a whole lot of anecdotal evidence. Our kids aren't zombies. Anything but...the drugs help them to focus more, concentrate more, etc.

ADD stands for "Attention Deficit Disorder", but it's a misnomer. There's not a deficit of attention, there's too much. The kids pay attention to everything, which means they can't concentrate on anything. They'll notice that Mark is chewing gum and there's leaves blowing past the window and the date on the board is wrong and the teacher just said something important and John passed a note to Mary and.....

The drugs help them to filter out the excess input and concentrate on what they choose to concentrate on. Not everyone needs them, and not everyone benefits fromthem. But those who use them certainly don't "zombify".

Your first comment was uncalled for. This is not an anecdotal evidence measuring contest, and your experiences do not invalidate mine, just as mine do not invalidate yours.

You currently work at a school with special care for these kids. ADD/ADHD is understood a little better than it was when I was a kid. Meanwhile, I went to a public school 15 years ago where a psychologist seemed to want to label every kid with some "condition" and I honestly think some of the parents considered it almost trendy to have a child that required special attention and/or medication. Two different times, two different environments, two different experiences.

With that, I'm going to stop derailing the thread away from Calvin & Hobbes. I know what I saw, I know what my parents saw, and I also know that things aren't that bad everywhere. However, I'm not going to put up with people telling me that I imagined the whole thing either.

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This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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NZUL
Deck the Malls


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Regarding the faked strip in comparison to the hypothesised end-strip...

I appreciate that the fake one has Calvin not actually looking at Hobbes. If it were to end with Hobbes "dying" like that, better this way, I think. Calvin just simply grows up. We realise it, but he doesn't ... yet.

I just don't buy Calvin reacting to the loss of his childhood friend with "Oh" and leaving him behind.

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"We don't keep a certified whale-vomit expert on staff." - Larry Penny, Director, Natural Resources Department, Town of East Hampton

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Mickey Blue
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
I just don't buy Calvin reacting to the loss of his childhood friend with "Oh" and leaving him behind.
Whether or not I think it would have been a good idea, or believe that it was true, I do think that would be somewhat resonable..

How many of us had imaginary friends (be they stuffed animal or otherwise) as children? Does anybody actually remember having a great epifany about them not being 'real'? Or did it just happen at some point that none of us really remember?

The reaction of "oh" would be somewhat appropriate in this sense, there would be no wondering where Hobbes is, or panick about no longer having his friend, rather the (perhaps depressing) relaization that it was a part of his childhood that has faded away (like many parts) and looking back seems somewhat silly (if endearing).

I personally think it would have made an excellent strip, speaking about the waht we lose when we make that transition into maturity, sure alot of great things come with it but alot of great things are left by the wayside as we grow up. Sad, but inevitable, and even if we lose great things we gain great things as well (nobody would want to be a kid forever, even if there are parts of childhood we will miss).

But in a perfect world I do like Ladylockout's idea the best, though I woudln't have Hobbes saying anything but thats sort of a minor detail (though it does go off in a wildly different direction then the OP's example).

The actual last comic does have some meret, implying that Calvin's world keeps going, just our window to it is closed, but I personally (and I realize we are all different) would find one of the other two much more meaningful and an excellent closing to such a great series..

In fact I think I may step out and pick up one of the compendiums now (if the stores are still open).

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"All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do"

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AliBaba
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by AliBaba:
This is driving me batty. I'm absolutely positive that the idea of Calvin seeing Hobbes as a stuffed tiger like everyone else had was proposed by a well-known columnist at the time that Watterson announced his intent to stop doing C&H. I want to say it was Dave Barry, but I don't think that's right.
--------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by YudanTaiteki:

It's not that out of the question that someone would propose this -- at the time C&H was ending, I thought the final strip would be something like that. I remember actually being disappointed in the final strip, although now I appreciate it more (I don't know if it's because I'm older or not).
-------------------------------------------------

Actually, Hobbes already found the article I had been thinking of. And by the way, Thanks, Hobbes, for saving my sanity. I knew I'd read that article. And Welcome!

From Hobbes's post:
quote:
It was conceived in an article in the Washington Post on November 19, 1995 written by Frank Ahrens called “So Long, Kid: An Obituary For a Boy, His Tiger and Our Innocence”, after Bill Watterson had announced that the final Calvin and Hobbes cartoon would be printed on December 31st.
Ali "Scientific progress goes 'boink'?" Baba
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Griffin at the Maul
Joyeux New Sale


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I am ADD, and have never been medicated. I have tried (at various times in my life) to self medicate, but that never helps, and causes more problems than it solves. Anyway, I have done quite a bit of research on ADD, ADHD, and several of the medications that are currently prescribed to children. I have also had many conversations with my MIL, who is a Jr High Teacher, with a Masters in Special Ed, who ONLY deals with Special Needs kids so that they can attempt to pass the Reading sections of the TAKS(Texas Assessment of Knowledge and
Skills), as required for advancement. I realize now that I would have GREATLY benefitted from medication, but that was just not done so much in the 70s and 80s. My mom tried everything, from the Feingold diet (eliminating sugars and red dye) to counseling, etc, but I stayed an underachiever. I simply did not stay challenged by my work, therefore I got bored and slacked. My harder classes were the ones that I excelled in, but English, Math, etc I was close to failing because I never turned in homework. ADD/ADHD is something that is never outgrown. I know that I have a problem, so I am more able to cope with it now, but I still realize on occasion that I have allowed myself to get distracted. Plus, I will go through a week, having stayed busy the entire week, but never really getting anything done because I get sidetracked so that I never finish anything.

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Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?

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gnome
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Griffin stuck in the Candy Floss:
ADD/ADHD is something that is never outgrown. I know that I have a problem, so I am more able to cope with it now, but I still realize on occasion that I have allowed myself to get distracted. Plus, I will go through a week, having stayed busy the entire week, but never really getting anything done because I get sidetracked so that I never finish anything.

I would not say "never". If I recall correctly there are many ADHD patients who do not require medication into adulthood. I took myself off medication years ago, but I am considering resuming it--after a serious change in my diet, I discovered that ADHD tendencies that I was compensating for without medicine were getting worse. I have a personal theory that caffeine was substituting for many years. Even so, I am at the peak of a slacker's career. Anything that requires continuous attention or study eludes me, and as I don't intend to be a helpdesk technician forever, it's time to do something about it.
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NZUL
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Blue:
But in a perfect world I do like Ladylockout's idea the best,

God, I missed that, scanning down the page too fast. Ladylockout, that's awesome!! That's definitely the best idea yet for a final strip. Here I am, at my work desk, tears in my eyes over that one.

That is definitely what I'm going to picture for adult Calvin's future. Now ... what does adult Calvin look like? What's he do for a living? Hehehe, so many questions!

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"We don't keep a certified whale-vomit expert on staff." - Larry Penny, Director, Natural Resources Department, Town of East Hampton

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OTL
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by NZUL:
That is definitely what I'm going to picture for adult Calvin's future. Now ... what does adult Calvin look like? What's he do for a living? Hehehe, so many questions!

Some think he's a janitor in an elementary school...

(There are, apparently, people who believe that the "Jef Mallett" who does Frazz is actually Bill Watterson, but I'm not one of them. Still, figured it was worth mentioning.)

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"I've allowed my love of gravy to distract from my prescriptivist linguistic crusade!"
-T-Rex, Dinosaur Comics

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