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Author Topic: Rude French at EuroDisney
Don Enrico
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Alex Buchet:
(snip) And think of all the Disneyana based on French folklore and art: Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast...

I always took "Cinderella" as being based on "Aschenputtel" and "Sleeping Beauty" as being based on "Dornröschen" - both part of the Brothers Grimm's (of recent Hollywood fame) collection of German fairy tales. But maybe they are just part of Western European folklore... "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" is definitly French, though.


quote:
Some translations:

Uncle Scrooge-- Oncle Picsou (roughly, "pennypincher")

Gladstone Gander-- Gontran

Huey, Louie, and Dewey-- Riri, Fifi, and Loulou.

Gyro Gearloose-- Géo Trouvetout ("George Findoutanything")

Black Pete-- Pat Hibulaire (roughly, 'Gallows Fodder')

Goofy-- Dingo

In German:

Uncle Scrooge-- Onkel Dagobert

Gladstone Gander-- Gustaf Gans

Huey, Louie, and Dewey-- Tick, Trick und Track

Gyro Gearloose-- Daniel Düsentrieb ("Daniel Jet Propulsion")

Black Pete-- Kater Karlo

Goofy-- Goofy

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My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling, but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. - Pooh Bear

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Ulkomaalainen
Jingle Bell Hock


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About the original question:

I would venture the guess that it is true that French staff for Euro Disney had (and had to have) special "friendliness training", accomodating to the multiple cultural backgrounds of prospective visitors (examples have been mentioned) which probably require more different "behaviour routines" than "just being friendly". At the same time, I am quite sure that the American outlets have the same training classes. Unless Disney expects them to have an "American Feel" to them that is, in which case of course training in non American venues would take longer.

About the world cup, Don Enrico said everything I guess. Actually, there seems to even arise some feel of pity towards English right wingers who want to daclare war on Germany, because, as DE stated, as flattering as that may be, the place as beloved arch enemy (in footballing terms) has been taken already by the Dutch, about whom we have songs, about the English not.

Though we should have taken the English as enemies, that would leave us with a chance of actually winning the rivalry [Smile]

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Movie characters never make typing mistakes.

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Alex Buchet
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Don Enrico:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alex Buchet:
[qb] (snip) And think of all the Disneyana based on French folklore and art: Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast...

I always took "Cinderella" as being based on "Aschenputtel" and "Sleeping Beauty" as being based on "Dornröschen" - both part of the Brothers Grimm's (of recent Hollywood fame) collection of German fairy tales. But maybe they are just part of Western European folklore... "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" is definitley French, though.


Ah, but there's a smoking gun or two!

--In "Cinderella" ("Cendrillon" in French), Disney has the Prince look for the girl who had a glass slipper.

In the French version of the tale (by Perrault), the footwear in question is called "pantoufle de vair" ("squirrel-skin slipper"). This was famously mistranslated into English as "pantoufle de verre", i.e. "glass slipper". A most poetic mistake!

As for "Sleeping Beauty", the visual inspiration was openly the famous medieval book of hours, 'Les Très Riches Heures de Jean, Duc de Berry'.

Vive Disney, vive la France!

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Joostik
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Ulkomaalainen:
pity towards English right wingers who want to daclare war on Germany, because, as DE stated, as flattering as that may be, the place as beloved arch enemy (in footballing terms) has been taken already by the Dutch

Duh! Those British amateurs with their obscure references which most Germans won't even "get".

Better wear one of these, peferably combined with one of these.

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Alex Buchet
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Follow up-- the most successful French disneyism is :

the Beagle Boys: "les Rapetou."

From 'Ils rapent tout'-- slang for 'they nick everything'.

The expression has entered general colloquial French. 'Un rapetou' has come to mean a thief, particularly of the con-man persuasion.

'Rapetou' is also a term of obloquy for French tax agents.

If you live in France, you'll understand. (Mon Dieu, how you'll understand!)

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Floater
Xboxing Day


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Having just returned from a couple of days in Paris I can report that the only rude person I met was myself when confronted by Arabic (or possibly Berber) beggers and Senegalese tourist trappers. Apart from that everyone I met was perfectly nice.

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Små hönor skall inte lägga stora ägg för då blir de slarviga i ändan

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wolfe2dale
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Ulkomaalainen:

About the world cup, Don Enrico said everything I guess. Actually, there seems to even arise some feel of pity towards English right wingers who want to daclare war on Germany, because, as DE stated, as flattering as that may be, the place as beloved arch enemy (in footballing terms) has been taken already by the Dutch, about whom we have songs, about the English not.

Though we should have taken the English as enemies, that would leave us with a chance of actually winning the rivalry [Smile]

You know, I would actually be offended by this if it hadn't been written by a German, a race that tends to lose to us at most things. [Big Grin]
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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Having just returned from a couple of days in Paris I can report that the only rude person I met was myself when confronted by Arabic (or possibly Berber) beggers and Senegalese tourist trappers. Apart from that everyone I met was perfectly nice.
That's just typical. Whenever you are in a foreign country and someone is rude and/or drunk, it's a Swedish tourist. I try to stay away from them as much as possible.

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/Troberg

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Don Enrico
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Don Enrico:
Just to make that clear: glorifying nationalsocialism, Hitler or organisations like the SS is indeed a criminal offence in Germany. Mentioning them, as well as "the war", isn't. And "insulting or threatening behaviour" is AFAIK, a criminal offence everywhere (depending on circumstances, of course).

From my impression, English football fans coming to Germany for the Fifa World Cup 2006 (TM) will probably be disappointed that the Germans don't get their jokes about Nazi Germany. The football-arch-enemy-ship felt by the English against the Germans is one-sided: German fans are much to busy bashing the Netherlands. The inflatable spitfires will probably get an acknowledgment along the lines of "Hey, he's waving a plane! What's that supposed to mean? Nice colours, though." And "Jurgen has only got one Ballack" might get you into trouble, but more because "it say's something rude about Ballack" but because anybody gets the Hitler reference.

Update on recent events:

According to the press, 65,000 English fans mostly behaved themselfs before, during and after the first English match on Saturday in Frankfurt.

Several hundred fans singing the song about the "10 German bombers" on Friday night caused a police deployment - to protect them from a few dozen German hooligans. Nobody interfered with their singing.

Two English fans were taken into custody and charged with "showing illegal symbols" because they hade SS-runes painted on their backs. They were released under a bail of 300 Euro each.

BBC news

The British consulate general in Frankfurt canceled a press conference scheduled for sunday afternoon "due to the uneventful night".

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My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling, but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. - Pooh Bear

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Don Enrico
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by wolfe2dale:
You know, I would actually be offended by this if it hadn't been written by a German, a race that tends to lose to us at most things. [Big Grin]

I have to file an official complaint. We Germans are not a race (actually, if there are races at all, we're as mixed racially as everybody else in Europe). If need be, we are a nation. [Wink]

Apart from that, maybe we should take you on in a cooking championship? [Smile]

Don "Saumagen vs Haggis" Enrico

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My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling, but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. - Pooh Bear

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Andrew of Ware, England
A-Ware in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Don Enrico:
Apart from that, maybe we should take you on in a cooking championship? [Smile]

Don "Saumagen vs Haggis" Enrico

With great relief I can tell you that haggis is not an English dish. Now I am sure we can think of something suitably horrible to come up against your 'Saumagen'. I was going to propose black pudding but I think you have your own version. Lava bread, made from seaweed, is Welsh, so I suppose we could have jellied eels. However, I have never had them, so I can't comment.

Back to topic: I can understand the French staff having to have lessons on politeness. Every nation has its own ideas of how they want to be treated. What is polite to an English person may not be for, say, a Spaniard.

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Andrew, Ware, England

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Alex Buchet
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Bubble and Squeak? Toad in the Hole? Brain Faggots? Spotted Dick?

(Actually, despite the offputting names, I've sampled all of the above, and all are delicious.)

But Marmite on Toast is a crime against civilisation.

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wolfe2dale
I Saw Three Shipments


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[/QUOTE]I have to file an official complaint. We Germans are not a race (actually, if there are races at all, we're as mixed racially as everybody else in Europe). If need be, we are a nation. [Wink]

Apart from that, maybe we should take you on in a cooking championship? [Smile]

Don "Saumagen vs Haggis" Enrico [/QB][/QUOTE]


I would be happy to take you up on your offer, I would suggest the German Bratwurst against the traditional British Banger. Sausage vs suasage in a battle to the death.

All those of you living in the land of innuendo may take what you want from this. [Big Grin]

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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew of Ware, England:
I suppose we could have jellied eels. However, I have never had them, so I can't comment.

I have had them. If you really like the jelly bit in pork pies and can stand really, really fishy tastes you might like them.

I don't mind the fishy-ness but the jelly - eeew!

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I shall baffle you with cabbages and rhinoceroses in the kitchen and incessant quotations from "Now We Are Six" through the mouthpiece of Lord Snooty's giant poisoned electric head. So there!

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Floater
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Alex Buchet:

But Marmite on Toast is a crime against civilisation.

Are you aware that there is a restaurant in Pigalle called La Marmite? (I know there is no connection, but still)

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Små hönor skall inte lägga stora ägg för då blir de slarviga i ändan

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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Floater:
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Buchet:

But Marmite on Toast is a crime against civilisation.

Are you aware that there is a restaurant in Pigalle called La Marmite? (I know there is no connection, but still)
Actually there is a connection. A marmite is a earthenware cooking pot, which is depicted on the label of a Marmite jar.

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I shall baffle you with cabbages and rhinoceroses in the kitchen and incessant quotations from "Now We Are Six" through the mouthpiece of Lord Snooty's giant poisoned electric head. So there!

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Jay Tea
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Actually there is a connection. A marmite is a earthenware cooking pot, which is depicted on the label of a Marmite jar.

30 years eating marmite, a 15 year academic and private interest in etymology and a more than capable hand in the kitchen as saucier and I 'still' never knew that! [lol]

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This is where I come up with something right? Something really clever...

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Alex Buchet
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Yeah, well just to be exclusive...

Why the big fuss about Obélix "qui est tombé dans la marmite quand il était petit"?

Hmm? What next-- "dans le BOVRIL?"

I suppose an Australian Aboriginal version of Asterix --(now there's a thought)-- would have its Obelix proxy fall into the Vegemite cauldron when he was a kid.

(Aside: for God's sake, Albert Uderzo MUST immediately retire from spawning new Asterix albums.

He can afford it-- he's one of the richest men in the European Union.

In fact, I'd be overjoyed if M. Uderzo employed his considerable fortune to track down and pulp every single Asterix album produced since the death of its co-creator, René Goscinny.)

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Pondicherry Pi
Deck the Malls


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EuroWaffles

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If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

What the NFBSK is Glurge? Or, a link to Snopes Lingo

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Pondicherry Pi
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Alex Buchet:


--In "Cinderella" ("Cendrillon" in French), Disney has the Prince look for the girl who had a glass slipper.

In the French version of the tale (by Perrault), the footwear in question is called "pantoufle de vair" ("squirrel-skin slipper"). This was famously mistranslated into English as "pantoufle de verre", i.e. "glass slipper". A most poetic mistake!

Ah, you do know that Snopes disagrees with you on this particular point?

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If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

What the NFBSK is Glurge? Or, a link to Snopes Lingo

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Alex Buchet
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Humph! Well, who am I to dispute the mighty Mikkelsons? Time to backpedal on this one!
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Cobra4J
Jingle Bell Hock


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Allow me to offer the alternate, and I'm sure unpopular, opinion.

I have never been to France, so I can't say from first hand experience. My sister did go once, and she did alright, but she says it's because she was with French friends.

However, here in America, we definitely suffer from RUDENESS galore. I am an American and I can tell you Americans can be very rude to each other, and foreigners. It's one comment I hear about my church members - Christians who aren't all that friendly.

My new neighbors just moved in a few days ago, and made a wonderful impression on me and the entire neighborhood by swearing at each other out on the front lawn, loud enough for everyone to hear it. (Yes, I so enjoy hearing people yell out the F word.)

So, rude french- maybe- but can we really throw too many stones?

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Stoneage Dinosaur
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Just to be fair to America, this recent Reader's Digest survey of the World's most courteous cities puts New York at the top ahead of Zurich and Toronto. London and Paris are about mid-table.

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"You learn something new every day if you're not careful" - Wilf Lunn

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notsmiffy
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I'm British. I have never met a rude French person, and I have only a handful of set phrases in French (I'm working on this). I have never hated French people, never seen the reason for the dislike British people are reputed to have for French people (I say "reputed" because I've never actually met anyone who has this strong feeling of dislike, with the exception of a piggish young Conservative of my acquaintance who dislikes everyone anyway on principle).

To me, nationality is largely irrelevant: I try always to judge people as people, rather than prejudging them according to their nationality. I hope they do me the same courtesy. Part of this is perhaps related to my own "upbringing": as the child of English and Scottish parents I knew from an early age that most generalisations about national characteristics were false, and that the people who insisted on being defined by nationality are generally rather small-minded (on going to school, I met adult "classroom assistants" who were peeved that I refused to define myself as either English or Scottish). This isn't to say that cultural differences don't exist, but if someone's obnoxious it's more likely to be because they're an obnoxious person than because they come from country X.

It helps, I think, to try to get out of the habit (if one ever had it) of defining yourself + those who happen to have been born in the same country as you as "us". Me + the people who try to pick fights with Germans by trivialising Nazism are not "we", but "me and them". "Us" makes me uneasy.

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Silkenreindeer
Wassaleing


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I'm an American living in the UK. I speak English, and that's just about it - and the American brand, which I'm constantly reminded is not the same one as the citizens of the sceptred isle speak. I'm dreadful with languages, the speaking part at least. When it comes to reading/translating, I'm good... but when it comes to parsing auditory input, translating it, thinking of a reply and translating it back, my mind works at a snail's pace. The worst part is knowing what to say - with quite a bit of grounding in Latin (which I took because I'm interested in Ancient History, and etymology), I can pick up the general gist of many Romance languags as they're spoken, but will have no idea how to form a sentance in return. I can generally pick up a phrase or two before and during a trip, and a "handy guide" to common tourist phrases is a friend of mine...

I do try to speak the local language as much as I can, though I find it embarassing. I can be painfully shy even under the most comfortable of circumstances when dealing with strangers. I have a hard enough time going up to the person behind the counter at Tesco and asking for something in my native tongue, and not knowing the language makes it about a million times harder for me. But I make the effort... and as a result, I have never been ill-treated when travelling in Europe.

(Of course, the level of effort I make depends largely upon whether someone else in my group speaks the language better than me. I'll usually deferr to my husband for French, Spanish and German, but will take the lead with Italian or Japanese)

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Gerard Morvan
Deck the Malls


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quote:
I always took "Cinderella" as being based on "Aschenputtel" and "Sleeping Beauty" as being based on "Dornröschen" - both part of the Brothers Grimm's (of recent Hollywood fame) collection of German fairy tales. But maybe they are just part of Western European folklore...
Charles Perrault has the anteriority on those tales by two centuries. And Beauty and the Beast is also definitely french.

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"Kentoc'h Mervel !"

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Die Capacitrix
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Stoneage Dinosaur:
Just to be fair to America, this recent Reader's Digest survey of the World's most courteous cities puts New York at the top ahead of Zurich and Toronto. London and Paris are about mid-table.

From the accompanying article:
quote:
For consistency, the New York tests were conducted at Starbucks coffee shops, by now almost as common in the Big Apple as streetlights.
How is that supposed to introduce consistency? If they said they did this only at Starbucks around the world (or the local equivalent), I could understand the idea of consistency. Why not in McDonald's? Of course, Starbucks has a slightly different clientele than McDonald's. Performing the tests only at Starbucks in NYC won't skew the tests at all. [Roll Eyes]

And even then, I would say NYC is still shell-shocked. Give them a few more years to get back to normal. [Smile]

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"Strength is the capacity to break a chocolate bar into four pieces with your bare hands - and then eat just one of the pieces." Judith Viorst

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