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Author Topic: The Da Vinci Code & The Little Mermaid
Tabbymago
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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I don't like either version of The Little Mermaid, but I have to say I much prefer the Disney versions of Bambi and Winnie-The-Pooh.

-Tabby
the princess with claws

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If you don't appreciate the irony, the irony appreciates.

"Sappiness and medieval violence: it's a wonderful combination. Like chocolate and peanut butter for the mind." -me on my fantasy novel-in-progress

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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Joseph Z:
What does Da Vinci have to do with the Little Mermaid movie?

Nowt - unless you believe Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code", which suggests that Walt Disney belonged to the same secret society that Da Vinci did (albeit many years later) - the purpose of the society being to preserve the bloodline of Jesus and Mary Magdalene.
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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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I feel I should clarify my standpoint here!

Last week I read the Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown, which is a best-seller here in the UK...

and here come some spoilers...

Granted, it's a page-turner, but it is also chocabloc with a dazzling array of urban legends passed off as fact, regarding the Louvre, the Holy Grail, Da Vinci's artwork, and Disney to name just a few. The sheer volume of legend in this novel is astounding (and a small church in Scotland is currently paying the price).

About half-way through the book, one of the key characters waxes lyrical (in the third person) about how watching Disney's interpretation of "The Little Mermaid" brought to mind all kinds of symbology pertaining to Mary Magdelene, and offers this as evidence that Walt Disney was privy to the knowledge that the bloodline that Jesus and Mary Magdelene originated was alive and well in the present day.

Now I personally think that the book should come with a CD playing the sound of a cuckoo clock striking the hour! but the reason for my post is - I wondered if Dan Brown had visited Snopes when researching the book, as he references Simba with the word "Sex" above his head while building a case for Disney's subliminal leanings?

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Ligeia
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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He wouldn't have had to visit snopes to pick that up. I heard it ten times a day everytime I left my house when it was first "discovered." Anyway, I would think that if Dan Brown had read snopes' page on the rumor, he would have known it wasn't true and therefore would not have included it as fact in the book.

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LittleDuck
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One would also think Mr. Brown would do a bit of research and see (if he didn't know) that The Little Mermaid was originally a "non-Disney" tale. As for him using SNopes, I imagine it's possible.

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"Silly customer, you cannot hurt a Twinkie." -Apu (The Simpsons)

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RubyMoon
Deck the Malls


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[QUOTE Anyway, I would think that if Dan Brown had read snopes' page on the rumor, he would have known it wasn't true and therefore would not have included it as fact in the book. [/QB][/QUOTE]

But of course the book is a work of fiction, so it can have any made of facts the author wants.

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TuFurg
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Joseph Z:
What does Da Vinci have to do with the Little Mermaid movie?

Apparently Disney has optioned to do the animated version of TDVC starring Simba... or something. [fish]
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PeterK
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by RubyMoon:
[QUOTE Anyway, I would think that if Dan Brown had read snopes' page on the rumor, he would have known it wasn't true and therefore would not have included it as fact in the book.

But of course the book is a work of fiction, so it can have any made of facts the author wants. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Brown stated adamantly in a TV interview that while the present-day story in the book is fictional, ALL of the historical background referred to in the book is solid fact. He is either VERY delusional or (far more likely) a glib liar who doesn't care about researching his "facts", just includes anything that will help make the book sell.

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Dropbear
Angels from the Realms so Glurgy


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quote:
Originally posted by PeterK
He is either VERY delusional or (far more likely) a glib liar who doesn't care about researching his "facts", just includes anything that will help make the book sell.

Well let's think, if I was Dan Brown, what would I do? I could admit the whole thing is tripe from beginning to end or I could surf the wave of wish-upon-a-star, I-want-to-believe, the-truth-is-out-there frenzy to the point of being able to sell deperately stupid people deluxe hard cover illustrated editions of books they already have and thereby make millions.

Decisions, decisions ....

(Actually, I could possibly also start my own motivational course - WWDB do...)

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" The villagers had said justice had been done, and she'd lost patience and told them to go home, then, and pray to whatever gods they believed in that it was never done to them. -- (Terry Pratchett)

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Holly Golightly
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by LittleDuck:
One would also think Mr. Brown would do a bit of research and see (if he didn't know) that The Little Mermaid was originally a "non-Disney" tale. As for him using SNopes, I imagine it's possible.

It's not the story that is being refered to but the way in which it is portrayed and its visual symbolism, namely a painting of The Penitent Magdalene by Georges de la Tour's which hangs on the wall of Ariel's home. It also talks about the name Ariel and her red hair, both Disney's addition to Andersons orginal fairy tale.
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Lydia Oh Lydia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I haven't seen an interview with Dan Brown about the book. When he says that all of the background and historical information is accurate, does he really mean that there: was a guy named Da Vinci; there is a Louvre; there are paintings as he describes; etc.? To me, I like books that take real things, be it places, historical people, whatever, and weave a tale around them.

I too tend to prefer happy endings in my stories. It helps if there is music too.

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Mosherette
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quote:
Originally posted by Tabbecause I love Uganda:
I have to say I much prefer the Disney versions of [...] Winnie-The-Pooh.[/QB]

Heresy! Burn the heretic! [Eek!]

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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Floater
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Mavis:
quote:
Originally posted by Tabbecause I love Uganda:
I have to say I much prefer the Disney versions of [...] Winnie-The-Pooh.

Heresy! Burn the heretic! [Eek!] [/QB]
You can borrow my lighter.

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Små hönor skall inte lägga stora ägg för då blir de slarviga i ändan

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by Floater:
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Mavis:
quote:
Originally posted by Tabbecause I love Uganda:
I have to say I much prefer the Disney versions of [...] Winnie-The-Pooh.

Heresy! Burn the heretic! [Eek!]

You can borrow my lighter. [/QB]
Sorry, but I have to place my allegiance with the Tabbster. Disney Pooh was best. Disney Hunchback, and Disney-Pocahontas on the other hand...

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Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...

Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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abigsmurf
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The "hundred acre crew" in that last film made me die a bit inside...

I wish Disney would start putting love into their films again rather than going for the quick buck. At least there are animators like Miyazaki showing love for the medium....

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PeterK
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Lydia Oh Lydia:
I haven't seen an interview with Dan Brown about the book. When he says that all of the background and historical information is accurate, does he really mean that there: was a guy named Da Vinci; there is a Louvre; there are paintings as he describes; etc.? To me, I like books that take real things, be it places, historical people, whatever, and weave a tale around them.


Sorry I haven't got a ref to the TV interview he did. In context, he was saying that ONLY the present-day characters in the book are made up, and EVERYTHING else in the book is "fact" including that the Knights Templar, Cathars, Leonardo da Vinci, Opus Dei, etc have carried the supposed "secret" of the descendants of Christ and Mary Magdalene.
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entropy9
I Saw Three Shipments


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the book opens with "All descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents, and secret rituals in this novel are accurate."

brown says the story itself, the characters and stuff are fiction

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Brian O'blivion
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"In my techno-thriller about a sexy reporter uncovering the Masonic-Nazi plot to replace world leaders with eight-foot lizards from another dimension, I made up the reporter. The lizards are real."
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Uraunde
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you all, but "the little mermaid" isn't even an original story of H.C. Anderson.
There is already an older book by Frédérique de la Motte Fouqué called Undine. But if I remember rightly, it's a sort of traditional french fairy tale.

Our school theater performed a version of Undine when I had the director of that play as a teacher so we talked about all the origins then. (Which was about 10 years ago)

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TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Forgive a fool, for I didn't read children's stories as a child, but what happened at the end of the original Little Mermaid that's such a downer? (I'm too frightened to ask about Winnie the Pooh and Bambi...)

Trish "Is that true, Bambi? Did you make a video nasty?" DaDish

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I would prefer not to.
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ntsch
A View to a Krill


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quote:
Originally posted by TrishDaDish:
Forgive a fool, for I didn't read children's stories as a child, but what happened at the end of the original Little Mermaid that's such a downer?

I don't have the book right here, but as I recall, the little mermaid doesn't win the prince's love. He marries her rival and the little mermaid turns into seafoam. I cried for hours after I read that.

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I'm not nice, I'm just highly susceptible to guilt.

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Kitsune26
The First USA Noel


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quote:
I don't have the book right here, but as I recall, the little mermaid doesn't win the prince's love. He marries her rival and the little mermaid turns into seafoam. I cried for hours after I read that.

Don't forget that every step caused her pain.

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I'm as giddy as a Japanese school girl in an octopus tank.

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Kitsune chan
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Thought this was interesting, I bought the first season of Gargoyles, and one episode makes reference to the Illuminati. (the episode where Eliza gets a partner, he's going on and on about the Illuminati, and she doesn't want to hear anything more about "secret societies" IIRC)
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Kahdra
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by TrishDaDish:
Forgive a fool, for I didn't read children's stories as a child, but what happened at the end of the original Little Mermaid that's such a downer? (I'm too frightened to ask about Winnie the Pooh and Bambi...)

Trish "Is that true, Bambi? Did you make a video nasty?" DaDish

The Prince was fond of the Little Mermaid, but fell in love with, and married, someone else (not the Sea Witch in disguise, a real woman), effectively condemning the Little Mermaid to death. The Little Mermaid's sisters sold their hair to the Sea Witch to bring the Little Mermaid a knife. If she used the knife to kill the prince and his bride, the blood would change her legs back into a fin and she would be a mermaid again. The Little Mermaid couldn't bring herself to do it, threw herself in the water and died. Instead of becoming seaweed like other merfolk, she became the foam on the waves because of her goodness.

It is sad, but I personally prefer it to the Disney version.

-Kahdra

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"Science makes everything sound painful, Spongebob." - Sandy

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TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Keeeeripes! That is a major bummer of an ending!

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I would prefer not to.
My blog

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Kitsune chan
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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edit: tthis became a double post, please delete
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StewPot
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
The Prince was fond of the Little Mermaid, but fell in love with, and married, someone else (not the Sea Witch in disguise, a real woman), effectively condemning the Little Mermaid to death. The Little Mermaid's sisters sold their hair to the Sea Witch to bring the Little Mermaid a knife. If she used the knife to kill the prince and his bride, the blood would change her legs back into a fin and she would be a mermaid again. The Little Mermaid couldn't bring herself to do it, threw herself in the water and died. Instead of becoming seaweed like other merfolk, she became the foam on the waves because of her goodness.

Actually, turning into sea foam upon death is what happens to all mermaids, and this is what she gave up by becoming human. Humans, unlike mermaids, have immortal souls, but she could only get an immortal soul by marrying the prince.
When she decided against killing the prince, she threw the knife into the water, then jumped in after it, and she thought she felt her body dissolve into foam. Here's a quote of the final few sentences of the book:
quote:
She cast one more lingering, half-fainting glance at the prince, and then threw herself from the ship into the sea, and thought her body was dissolving into foam. The sun rose above the waves, and his warm rays fell on the cold foam of the little mermaid, who did not feel as if she were dying. She saw the bright sun, and all around her floated hundreds of transparent beautiful beings; she could see through them the white sails of the ship, and the red clouds in the sky; their speech was melodious, but too ethereal to be heard by mortal ears, as they were also unseen by mortal eyes. The little mermaid perceived that she had a body like theirs, and that she continued to rise higher and higher out of the foam. “Where am I?” asked she, and her voice sounded ethereal, as the voice of those who were with her; no earthly music could imitate it.

“Among the daughters of the air,” answered one of them. “A mermaid has not an immortal soul, nor can she obtain one unless she wins the love of a human being. On the power of another hangs her eternal destiny. But the daughters of the air, although they do not possess an immortal soul, can, by their good deeds, procure one for themselves. We fly to warm countries, and cool the sultry air that destroys mankind with the pestilence. We carry the perfume of the flowers to spread health and restoration. After we have striven for three hundred years to all the good in our power, we receive an immortal soul and take part in the happiness of mankind. You, poor little mermaid, have tried with your whole heart to do as we are doing; you have suffered and endured and raised yourself to the spirit-world by your good deeds; and now, by striving for three hundred years in the same way, you may obtain an immortal soul.”

The little mermaid lifted her glorified eyes towards the sun, and felt them, for the first time, filling with tears. On the ship, in which she had left the prince, there were life and noise; she saw him and his beautiful bride searching for her; sorrowfully they gazed at the pearly foam, as if they knew she had thrown herself into the waves. Unseen she kissed the forehead of her bride, and fanned the prince, and then mounted with the other children of the air to a rosy cloud that floated through the aether.

“After three hundred years, thus shall we float into the kingdom of heaven,” said she. “And we may even get there sooner,” whispered one of her companions. “Unseen we can enter the houses of men, where there are children, and for every day on which we find a good child, who is the joy of his parents and deserves their love, our time of probation is shortened. The child does not know, when we fly through the room, that we smile with joy at his good conduct, for we can count one year less of our three hundred years. But when we see a naughty or a wicked child, we shed tears of sorrow, and for every tear a day is added to our time of trial!”



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One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds.
-Frank Zappa

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Spikey
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Ligeia:
Anyway, I would think that if Dan Brown had read snopes' page on the rumor, he would have known it wasn't true and therefore would not have included it as fact in the book.

When was it decided that it "wasn't true"? Personally, I can quite clearly see a word there, and while I can't tell whether it's 'SEX' or 'SFX', I still think it is deliberate. Even Snopes has the rumour listed as 'undertermined.'

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"The fact that "uvula" and "vulva" look and sound similar was just a happy coincidence." - Lainie

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Midgard_Dragon
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Spikey:
quote:
Originally posted by Ligeia:
Anyway, I would think that if Dan Brown had read snopes' page on the rumor, he would have known it wasn't true and therefore would not have included it as fact in the book.

When was it decided that it "wasn't true"? Personally, I can quite clearly see a word there, and while I can't tell whether it's 'SEX' or 'SFX', I still think it is deliberate. Even Snopes has the rumour listed as 'undertermined.'
Right, "Undetermined", which means stating it as true is as equally stupid as stating it as false.

Personally, I seem to be the only person alive who realizes that despite Dan Brown's stupidity in claiming the books historical facts to be true, it is *still* fiction. It doesn't claim to be a history lesson. If people aren't taught from a young age to look at a book labelled as "fiction" and know that there's a pretty good chance some or all of the stuff inside it might be false, then it's those people and what they were (or in this case weren't) taught. Dan Brown aside, the book was entertaining, and has never been claimed to be anything but fiction. As long as they aren't using it in History Class I think everyone should stop bitching. (Did I mention how much I hate all those "Debunking Da Vinci Code" book? Dear GOD can we talk about a waste of time?)

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Midgard Dragon
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Spikey
Jingle Bell Hock


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Whilst I agree that perhaps Dan Brown is a bit bold to state everything as fact, I think what he means is that the theories he talks of are actually recognized theories that several historians believe in (as in, he didn't just make them up himself). The theories themselves may not actually be true.

I'm with you, Midgard_Dragon. I'd think that the intention was for people to enjoy reading a interesting work of fiction, but also know that the theories he talks about have more weight behind them than simply Dan Brown's imagination. I don't think he meant for everyone to take every word he wrote as solid fact. And at the end of the day, I really enjoyed the book, so it served its purpose for me.

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"The fact that "uvula" and "vulva" look and sound similar was just a happy coincidence." - Lainie

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Seraphina
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quote:
Originally posted by Brandi:
Floater: apparently you think sarcasm is just something that happens to other people. [fish]

Brandi, you ought to consider that for some people English is their second language, and therefore they may miss some subtleties of the discussion.
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KatrinaDuck
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Just because Mr. Brown SAYS that it's true doesn't mean that it actually is. And here I am thinking of both Robinson Crusoe and Pamela, which were presented as if the author were an editor of a real person's works. (Damn my 18th century class, it's making me think!)
Or, if anyone here is closer to my age, the Bunnicula books were said to have been brought to the author by Harold, the narrator and doggie hero of the stories. But I bet anyone a nickel that the dog didn't actually write them.

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It is, after all, the dab of grit that seeps into an oyster's shell that makes the pearl, not pearl-making seminars with other oysters. -Stephen King

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Resurrection Joe
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Dracula was written the same way (not to mention movies like Blair Witch and Fargo)
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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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Having just moved house I have been off the boards for a while, but after this discussion I dug out my childhood copy of Andersen fairy tales and it was one of my "unpacked" books. I really enjoyed reading it again (through my 7-year-old's crayon scribbles) and not only are the tales very dark and warm, they also convey a huge amount for your imagination to work on in very few (translated) words. Recommend!
Posts: 1157 | From: Westcountry UK "It's Bootiful" | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by entropy9:
the book opens with "All descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents, and secret rituals in this novel are accurate."

brown says the story itself, the characters and stuff are fiction

I can speak from person experience to the accuracy (or lack thereof) of the architecture in the book.

In the book, Brown claims that the Opus Dei Headquarters in New York shows the orders attitude toward women even in it's design. The men's entrance in in the front and is the main entrance while the women are forced to enter and exit through a rear door that opens into an alley. He alsop claims that the sleping quartes are segregated and that the men are not allowed into the women's quarters and vice versa.

Having been there, this would be a verin confusing arrangement as the men's sleeping areas are to the rear of the building requiring them to pass through the women's quarters to use the front doors. I have also witnessed both men and women using both sets of doors, and I have personally been through both sets.

Also, one of the characters is a monk of Opus Dei. Apparently he is the only one, because Opus Dei is an organisation of laypeople which means that there are no monks.

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Posts: 7224 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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