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Author Topic: Child Dies After Riding Epcot Attraction
oh pleeze
It's So Cheesy (to Fall in Love)


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LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. -- Investigators from the Orange County Sheriff's Office are looking into the death of a 4-year-old boy after riding an attraction at Walt Disney World's Epcot Monday.
very sad [Frown]

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op

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LibrarianJen
We Three Blings


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I just read this on cnn; how very sad, and senseless. I want to know how the hell he was let on the ride if he didn't fit the requirements.
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guruwan2b
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The article that I read said he did meet the 44" requirement.
It is sad. Maybe he had a heart condition that the family didn't know about?

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oh pleeze
It's So Cheesy (to Fall in Love)


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quote:
Originally posted by LibrarianJen:
I just read this on cnn; how very sad, and senseless. I want to know how the hell he was let on the ride if he didn't fit the requirements.

on this news web page it says he did.
"The sheriff's office said the boy did meet the ride's minimum 44-inch height limit." [Confused]

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op

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Bad Ronald
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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44 inches would be quite tall for a 4-year-old, wouldn't it?

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Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
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LibrarianJen
We Three Blings


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Sorry, I totally read that wrong.

Still, I can't imagine letting a four-year old get on such a ride, even if you do meet the height requirement.

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Chimera
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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If he meet the ride restrictions then I don't think it should be Disney's problem (if the ride performed correctly). Blame the company that made the ride if anything. Heck, I took my kid on a tilt a whirl at age one and no one said a thing. In fact I even asked first if it would be ok for the kid to ride. Although (after the fact) I read the ride info and it recomended a taller height and a six years of age limit. I actually mentioned it to the operator who just said he never read that but little ones ride all the time. I let it go at that point, I just thought they might actually care. And I sure as hell don't want to saftey proof the world. I'd just like to have informed decisions. My kid wasn't hurt or tramatised but he didn't think it was fun either. I just can't believe people can be so clueless. Although parents also need to take responsibility. I know I've flunked the test (with the tlit a whirl thing and probably other stuff) but I have been on the things many before. I thought it was ok for to let my son do it. I also asked the attendant about it, it wasn't till I read the frame of the structure I knew it was inappropriate.


BTW: Yes I do always read the signs on rides that give additional info (there's usually a small metal sign on the main structure of the ride). Its nice to know if you are riding a scrambler or kaleidoscope. Many things are sold as one thing and marketed under another. I also found out our local amusement park's water raft ride was made in Germany. Pointless but it was interesting to me at the time.

ETA: not everyone likes you to waste time reading the plaque stuff on ride structures.

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"The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?"
Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun'

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LibrarianJen
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I agree, I don't think Disney can be liable if he met the requirements, unless there is more to the story (???)
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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Hmmm, guess there are two threads about this floating around.

Mission: Space, for all the hype, isn't that much different in intensity than your average roller coaster. It is basically a set of vehicles mounted on a centrifuge so that the spinning simulates the liftoff of a rocket, the zero-G of space, and the reentry into an atmosphere. While I adore the ride, I found an average roller coaster with a decent drop and a cobra loop to produce a MUCH greater feeling of pressure on my chest and disorientation.

From what I have seen, the people who have the biggest problem with Mission: Space are those who already have issues with motion sickness or those who do not keep looking ahead during the ride (this destroys the illusion of forward motion given by the viewscreen and your head gets messed up from the true direction of the centrifuge).

I got to ride Mission: Space during the preview and I thought it was so cute that the biggest fans of the ride were the tiny little kids. I went on it twice in a row, but these munchkins were running from the exit to the entrance as fast as possible in order to get another ride in.

I wonder if he might have had an undiagnosed heart problem or something similar. It seems like most deaths on rides occur either because the rider did something stupid or because of a medical condition that was previously unknown, or at least most of the ones I have heard about fall into those categories.

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This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Astra:


From what I have seen, the people who have the biggest problem with Mission: Space are those who already have issues with motion sickness or those who do not keep looking ahead during the ride (this destroys the illusion of forward motion given by the viewscreen and your head gets messed up from the true direction of the centrifuge).

The problem is that the ride doesn't look scary from the outside. Most people who have problems with roller coasters get scared of them even before they get into the line for the ticket. In Mission:Space, you just go into a big room with other people, and you are led into the spinner thingy. Sure, they have lots of warnings, but you don't get a feel of what you are getting into until you are actually in the ride.

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Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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jynni
Deck the Malls


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2Gs isn't really that much in the world of thrill rides. Off the top of my head I can think of several rollercoasters in one park that are over 3G and one thrill ride that's 4.5.

On a side note (doesn't appear to apply to this situation), some parents will do some crazy things to make their kids go on rides ("I paid the adult admission and you WILL go on all rides you're tall enough for"). A few incidents stand out from back when I worked at an amusement park. I remember seeing a mother literally dragging her son through the que line to the rollercoaster I was working. This kid was probably between the ages of 5-8 and was visibly terrified. He was grabbing onto anything he could get his hands on - light poles, que stands etc - and his mother kept prying him away. She forced this screaming, crying child into the rollercoaster train where she tried to hold him down and force the harness on him.

As ride operators there was no way in hell we were going to let this kid on if he didn't want to go. It's dangerous - what happens if halfway up the lift hill that kid manages to wiggle out of his harness? The mother kept asking us to "please lock the train so he'll stay in".

We told her that we could not, in the interest of safety, make her kid ride. She was not happy and kept trying to convince us that he really did want to ride and he would like it once the ride started. After arguing about it some more she finally relented and let the poor kid off the ride. He ran off to the exit and waited outside until she got done riding.

I just couldn't believe the nerve of some people. We had to start measuring kids without their shoes on because parents would buy shoes with super thick soles that would makes their kids tall enough to ride.

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Chimera
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I once got my mom on Questor (or however that's spelt) moving compartment ride and Bush Gardens. I bought her the t-shirt later (really, she'd been there, done that, and had the t-shirt to prove it). I felt really bad because it seriously freaked her out. But its one of those ride that your not exactly sure what your getting yourself in for. But there are warnings posted so anyone that fearful who doesn't read or ask deserves to be a bit frightened IMHO. In the above I think it was the parents responsibility to read or ask.

(I think I got my fears from my mom. I think she's even a bit nervous about taking the kid back to Lazy Five because last time a Zebra put his head in her lap and she freaked out.)

Maybe I just don't see Space as that bad. After all when I was at space camp as a kid they put us in the "centrifuge" and asked us to try dumb and imposible things (like lift our legs as they increased the speed). Someone was so evil. A person can get hurt trying that.

I actually believe most activites are safe for healthy kids. My kid is now saying he wants to do a skycoaster. I showed him a video of me on one. Kid still wants to do it. If he meets height requirement (not can slip past them since there is a saftey factor involved) I'll take him this summer. Let it scare the hell out of the boy, that oughta stop his complaining. I know I'm a bad parent but I think every generation needs to learn for itself that the stove is hot. The only problem is my kid has absolutely no fear of heights so the plan might back fire on me. I thought people were born with a fear of heights.

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"The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?"
Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun'

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Chimera
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Actually on second thought. Darn that Shite! Bring back my Mission to Mars! (or Horizens since its Epcot). Let's go back to calling the place the Epcot Center not just Epcot. Sure they have the token kidscot thingy (in the world show case where they can make mask) but for the love of all would someone please let Disney be child friendly once again. I just think there's getting to be too many things with height requirements that its getting annoying for little ones. There's not a shortage of other parks in FL.

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"The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?"
Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun'

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Chickee Daizy
Live and Let Madai


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quote:
Originally posted by Bad Ronald:
44 inches would be quite tall for a 4-year-old, wouldn't it?

My sixteen month old is 38 inches tall. That is only eight inches away from 44 inches, so it isn't completely improbable that he could reach or exceed that height by the time he is four.

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Bad Ronald:
44 inches would be quite tall for a 4-year-old, wouldn't it?

Pretty tall, but not outrageous. Julia Kitten is 42 inches at age 4-1/2, and she's not the tallest in her class.

Four Kitties

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BlackForge
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I'm supprised that there are not a lot more deaths at these parks. This is based on the numbers of peaple there each year and the chances of some person having a undiagnosed condition.

quote:
An autopsy Tuesday showed no trauma so further tests will be conducted and a cause of death may not be known for several weeks, said Sheri Blanton, a spokeswoman for the Medical Examiner's Office in Orlando.
I'm guessing that based on this it's a good chance it was a prexisting conditions. Because they could not revive the child, I'm guessing blood clot.

It sad when someone dies, but it even worse when it is a young child. If this was a preexsiting condition it have been waiting to happen at any time. If the child was going to die from it, at least (I hope) he was having fun at the time.

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Bad Ronald
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
quote:
Originally posted by Bad Ronald:
44 inches would be quite tall for a 4-year-old, wouldn't it?

Pretty tall, but not outrageous. Julia Kitten is 42 inches at age 4-1/2, and she's not the tallest in her class.

Four Kitties

Well, it's been a few years since my son was 4, so I had to do some research. It looks like 44 inches is a bit above the 95th percentile for 4 year old boys, so he was an exceptionally tall child. I'm not sure where his family was from originally (I'm guessing Central Africa), but that might have something to do with his stature.

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Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
Winston Churchill

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Eve MG
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by jynni:
I just couldn't believe the nerve of some people. We had to start measuring kids without their shoes on because parents would buy shoes with super thick soles that would makes their kids tall enough to ride.

Oh yeah - the Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World With Kids actually recommends this. That is, if your child is just a few inches short and really wants to go on the ride.

Disney does price by age, right? At Six Flags (at least the ones in NY), prices are by height - under 48" or over. I wonder if anyone does flat shoes at the gate, and then the heels for the rides.

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Chimera
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I don't do heels or anything, but I'll have to admit that I've always tried to put on the pair of comfortable shoes that made my kid the tallest. He just barely got by on his first rollercoaster (I'm talking right on the line and he would've probably been refused if he wore other footwear... luckly he has a few pair of clunky shoes). I honestly can't see how even an inch could make a saftey difference. I'm sure the standards are set lower than necessary. But I know if they let someone and inch short through the person an inch sorter than that would complain. I'm sorry but I still remember when my adult midget friend bitched when she was on the right on the line (actually a fraction below the line) for a ride... she got on and enjoyed the ride. I was just entertained by the unexpected "show". I guess you don't tell someone who is nearly 30 that they're too short. Anyhoo, now it seems the boy can proably ride anything now. I just keep looking at how skinny he is and I can't remember the boy is tall (for his age).

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"The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?"
Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun'

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Rainmom
Deck the Malls


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I am very interested to see what the autopsy shows. It really is so very sad. If I had to guess, I would think dehydration played a factor (June in Florida, many people don't think to drink enough). I have read that some extreme G-force rides can be dangerous for those with undiagnosed aneurysms, but that would be rare in a 4 year old.

Both my kids are roller coaster junkies. DH and I go along, even though we feel like crap afterwards. My main complaint with some Disneyworld rides is that they are so LOUD!

Rainmom

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LarrySDonald
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Wow, a 16 month old at 38"? That's gotta be out there.. I just measured my 2 year and 8 month old at 36 today and everyone always marvles at how tall she is. Though I guess being a girl makes a difference, and personally I couldn't tell. Being 6'5, people under 5' are generally just little.
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Bad Ronald
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Chickee Daizy:
quote:
Originally posted by Bad Ronald:
44 inches would be quite tall for a 4-year-old, wouldn't it?

My sixteen month old is 38 inches tall. That is only eight inches away from 44 inches, so it isn't completely improbable that he could reach or exceed that height by the time he is four.
44 - 8 = 36. The 95th percentile for 18 month old boys is just under 35 inches, so your 16 month old is spectacularly tall for his age.

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Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
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oh pleeze
It's So Cheesy (to Fall in Love)


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quote:
Originally posted by Rainmom:
I am very interested to see what the autopsy shows.

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. -- Preliminary autopsy results released Tuesday indicated a boy who died after riding an Epcot attraction didn't suffer any trauma.
link

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op

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Gibbie
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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From an article on CNN
quote:
During the ride, Daudi's mother, Agnes, noticed that his body was rigid and that his legs were stretched straight out, but she thought he was just frightened, according to a sheriff's report.
I wonder if he had a seizure? Are there flashing lights in the ride? Perhaps it was undiscovered epilepsy.

Gibbie

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Rehcsif
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Gibbie:
I wonder if he had a seizure? Are there flashing lights in the ride? Perhaps it was undiscovered epilepsy.

I'm a little ignorant here -- can you die from a seizure in that short of a time period (particularly with nobody nearby noticing anything?)

I'm assuming the ride is only a couple minutes long (at least the intense part...)

-Tim

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bigblu89
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This actually happened, it's not an Urban Legend, so why is it being discussed here?
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Chimera
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I'm actually starting to feel sorry for Disney. People have to die somewhere. Hotels or any place that has large numbers of guest probably also has a death count, many due to natural causes or major anomalies... They just don't get that as much attention as Disney.

The log flume incident and various others are just guest stupidity. But it imposible to saftey proof the world from idiots. Although I do feel for the employee hit by the float. I wouldn't be surprised if the Skyway wasn't stopped because the killed employee and that would really piss me off. He should've known what he was doing and even if a mistake was made life still goes on... or at least it does for those who aren't killed. Besides they still continued to run carosel of progress (seasonally) after some dumb arse employee got killed on that.

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"The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?"
Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun'

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oh pleeze
It's So Cheesy (to Fall in Love)


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quote:
Originally posted by bigblu89:
This actually happened, it's not an Urban Legend, so why is it being discussed here?

not everything here discussed has to be an urban legend. actually, most posters don't discuss legends, they either debunk it with proof, or speculate it's factualness. oh yeah, and they also discuss real stuff that sounds like urban legends.

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op

i'm taking the afternoon off to stalk my previous boss who fired me for taking afternoons off.

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Rainmom
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Rehcsif Mit:
quote:
Originally posted by Gibbie:
I wonder if he had a seizure? Are there flashing lights in the ride? Perhaps it was undiscovered epilepsy.

I'm a little ignorant here -- can you die from a seizure in that short of a time period (particularly with nobody nearby noticing anything?)

I'm assuming the ride is only a couple minutes long (at least the intense part...)

-Tim

People often vomit when they have seizures...maybe he aspirated and choked to death. From what I have heard, it is a very intense ride.

Rainmom

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Chimera
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Just another thought: Is the thing monitored? I come from a time when ride opertators would stop a ride if it seemed someone was having a problem. Rollercoasters were the exception (or maybe they weren't because there are cameras on some but I've never known one to be stopped) but typically if someone screamed enough for a ride to be stopped the operator would stop it and let the guest off. I do know some moving compartment rides and other simular rides aren't monitored at all and I can't think of any that the operator stays on the ride but are there cameras or something to keep an eye on the guest on others? Although I guess it would really disrupt a show to stop something like that. But if someone were vomiting all over the place would you really want it to continue. I guess its more like a rollercoaster where you are basicaly there for the duration of the ride. I was even asked on High Roller if I was ok once. I gave the thumbs up and continued the ride (for almost 2 minutes... guess it was a slow night, I was in hell and the harness didn't really fit right and I got bruised but I wasn't going to let a ride win... I had a reputation to uphold and the operator had damaged it enough already.). The dumb thing was that probably happened in the mid-90s (I'd never seen anything like it before) and in about 2000 or so I rode the thing again and it was still as unpleasant as I remembered it. I think the biggest problem is the harness doesn't fit me. Sure it keeps me in but I slam against it every time it flips over. I think I've now learned my lesson.

I do realize the mother didn't seem to think it was a problem but I'm just curious in general if things are still generally looked after.

--------------------
"The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?"
Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun'

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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I know that they do have cameras inside the booth, because before they start the ride they show all your team members on the screen. Also, they have monitors which show the reaction of the people in the ride while you are waiting in line. I don't know whether someone actively monitors all of the people in the ride

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Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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Rehcsif
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Chimera:
Besides they still continued to run carosel of progress (seasonally) after some dumb arse employee got killed on that.

Sorry, but I find that a more than just a little disrespectfull. The creators of the COP really should have built in a safeguard which could have prevented such an accident.

To quote MousePlanet:
quote:

At 5-foot-5 and 100 pounds, Deborah was young, beautiful, healthy and intelligent—and just about to embark on her adult life. A few weeks earlier, she had graduated with honors from Santa Ana High School, where she was a star athlete, student and winner of the year's “Principal's Award.”

She had enrolled at Iowa State University and, knowing how expensive it would be living away from home, decided to join friends applying for a summer job at the coolest place in town—Disneyland. Deborah was hired in early June, right before her eighteenth birthday, and trained to be on the opening crew of America Sings. On July 8—before beginning work—she asked her parents' permission to become engaged.

Deborah also makes an especially sympathetic figure because, as far as could be determined, she didn't do anything wrong. The park's fatalities before and since—up until the deaths involving the Sailing Ship Columbia in 1998 and Big Thunder Railroad in 2003—were all caused by victim recklessness. Someone—typically a teenager on Grad Nite—did something they weren't supposed to, like stood up on a bobsled or jumped between cars on the People Mover. Deborah wasn't goofing off. She was just doing her job.

((snip))

It does explain, however, how ride designers created an accident waiting to happen. With the Carousel of Progress hostess at the left end of the theater, she'd be safely behind the moving wall as it clockwise approached the stationary wall. With the theater now turning counter-clockwise, she was precariously in front of the moving wall as it closed in on the stationary wall.

To quote snopes :
quote:
Immediately after the accident, America Sings was closed for two days while a safety light that alerted the attraction's operator whenever someone got too close to the danger area was installed. Eventually the solid walls were replaced with breakaway ones to prevent similar accidents from occurring.
Still want to call her a dumb arse employee? Or was it an unfortunate freak accident caused by the lack of safety forsight on the designers' part?

-Tim

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Bad Ronald
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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OK, I'll admit it - I've become obsessed with this height thing. But I found this Kid's Growth Chart Percentiles Calculator , which is pretty useful. According to the article that I read, the child who died was 46 inches tall, which puts him at the 97th percentile for boys his age. Oddly enough, Chickee Daizy's son is at the 97th percentile for 16 month old boys. Young Miss Julia Kitten would be at the 68th percentile.

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jynni
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quote:
The park's fatalities before and since—up until the deaths involving the Sailing Ship Columbia in 1998 and Big Thunder Railroad in 2003—were all caused by victim recklessness. Someone—typically a teenager on Grad Nite—did something they weren't supposed to, like stood up on a bobsled or jumped between cars on the People Mover.
Not to get too far off the original topic but I thought the Thunder Mt. Railroad incident was a result of faulty maintenance or something like that. I never heard how it was resolved though.
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Chickee Daizy
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quote:
Originally posted by Bad Ronald:
quote:
Originally posted by Chickee Daizy:
quote:
Originally posted by Bad Ronald:
44 inches would be quite tall for a 4-year-old, wouldn't it?

My sixteen month old is 38 inches tall. That is only eight inches away from 44 inches, so it isn't completely improbable that he could reach or exceed that height by the time he is four.
44 - 8 = 36. The 95th percentile for 18 month old boys is just under 35 inches, so your 16 month old is spectacularly tall for his age.
Damn, you caught my poor math skills! OK, so he is 6 inches shorter than the four year old. Oops, I can't do math in my head.

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Some people are like slinkies...They don't really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

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