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Author Topic: Jest in Time II - Bush story
rogue
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I just could not resist responding to this one:

quote:
This is an e-mail I received that I believe to be false. I was wondering if you had it in your archives and I was just missing it. Let me know if you have this one somewhere, please.

A little girl was talking to President Bush about whales. Mr. Bush told her that it was physically impossible for a whale to swallow a human being because even though it was a very large mammal, its throat was very small. The little girl stated that Jonah was swallowed by a whale. Irritated, the President reiterated that a whale could not swallow a human; it was physically impossible.

The little girl said, "When I get to heaven I will ask Jonah."

Mr. Bush asked, "What if Jonah went to the other place?"

The little girl replied, "Then you ask him."

I think the emailer was asking if this ever REALLY happened.

I don't think so, since that would mean that Bush actually knows some biology....

-Rogue

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"'Cause you might enjoy some madness for awile."

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YudanTaiteki
Deck the Malls


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The joke is also an unlikely situation given Bush's religious views and conservatism -- what the jokewriter has him saying here is that the Jonah story in the Bible did not actually happen, and that one of God's prophets might be in hell. I have a feeling that this is an older joke that someone recycled with Bush's name substituted in.
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snopes
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quote:
I think the emailer was asking if this ever REALLY happened.
Given that the whole page is nothing but examples of people asking us whether events described in (what are obviously) jokes ever REALLY happened, probably so.

- snopes

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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It would also imply that he doesn't know his bible, since Jonah wasn't swallowed by a whale at all.

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Singing in the Drizzle
Jingle Bell Hock


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Lets see if I can post to this thread with out it moving on me this time. I hate that when it happens.

When I first read this something from on of Mark Twain's works popped into my head. I thik it was Tom sawyer and one of his argument with his aunt or something like that. Its been way to long to remember any one other than Tom from the books now. Anyway it just reminded my of a Mark Twain joke and sounded like a rewrite, but have no idea if this is the case or not.

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susan_kerry
Deck the Malls


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Closest I can think of is this-

A guy is being sent to the Chair, and another prisoner shouts- " Hey, when you get to heaven, say hi to my momma... " The guy about to be executed replies- " I ain't goin that way, brother- but I'll sure say hi to your daddy..."

It was used in the movie Popcorn (above is my paraphrase), but its a pretty common theme really.


whats the deal with Jonah? I thought the Bible says Fish, maybe not specifically whale- is that what you meant?

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monkey
Happy Holly Days


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The Bible says he was swallowed by a big fish. Never mentions a whale. A whale is, in fact, not a fish at all. So the common portrayal of Jonah in the belly of a whale is completely inaccurate to what the story says.

It's always bugged me, because if you're going to try to teach your kids that the Bible is true, wouldn't you want to actually teach them the stories that are in the Bible, with the correct details?

Not that I think a story about how God got mad at a guy and made a fish swallow him is entirely appropriate for small children anyway...

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Singing in the Drizzle
Jingle Bell Hock


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I do not know anything about old languages. At the time the story was written. Could fish refer to any creature that swam in the water. Today we know that a fish is diffent than a whale, but back then this may have not been the case.
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glisp42
I'm Dreaming Of A White iPod


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quote:
Originally posted by Singing in the Drizzle:
Lets see if I can post to this thread with out it moving on me this time. I hate that when it happens.

When I first read this something from on of Mark Twain's works popped into my head. I thik it was Tom sawyer and one of his argument with his aunt or something like that. Its been way to long to remember any one other than Tom from the books now. Anyway it just reminded my of a Mark Twain joke and sounded like a rewrite, but have no idea if this is the case or not.

It was Tom Sawyer. His aunt was telling him about heaven and hell. Tom asked his aunt if Huck Finn was going to heaven and was told he wasn't. Tom then thinks to himself that he would like to be with his friend. Twain never actually mentions heaven and hell but the implication is there.

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Ron Miel
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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There are some very large fish in the Red Sea. Jonah's fish might have been a wrasse:

http://www.reeftrip.com/images/wallye006_lge.jpg

That's not a trick of perspective, they really do get that size.

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Singing in the Drizzle:
I do not know anything about old languages. At the time the story was written. Could fish refer to any creature that swam in the water. Today we know that a fish is diffent than a whale, but back then this may have not been the case.

In Moby dick, whales are described as being fish. I don't have a direct quote, but "Ishmael" disputes the notion that whales are not fish.

This could indicate that whales were once thought to be fish.

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NewZer0
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That story is also sort of similar to a part in Hamlet --

Claudius asks where Polonius is and Hamlet says, basically, send a messenger to Heaven, and if he's not there, seek him yourself in the "other place."

Whales as fish -- as far as I know, whales were considered fish throughout much of history *but* I have no sources to back that up, and would welcome ones that prove me wrong.

--NewZer0

eta word

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Thera
I Saw Three Shipments


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When the bible was written, they didn't know a whale wasn't a fish.
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Cowboy Joe
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Whales might have been fish at the time of the original writing. They probably evolved into mammals later.

Also, if we are to believe Ron Meil, any fish swallowing something that large would likely get a stomach ache. Therefore, Jonah migh have been a huge pain in the wrasse.

And don't sit there all high and mighty like you didn't thought of that one, I just had the courage and lack of personal pride to say it first. [Big Grin]

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"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

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Brrrtje
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Even beavers have been considered fish for a long time. Meant you could eat them on friday, and why not? I mean, they live in the water, they have scales (on the tail), what more evidence do you need?
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pob14
Jingle Bell Hock


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Old joke, repeated here among other places. A FUNNY old joke, but an old joke nonetheless. There's other good religious / spiritual jokes there, too.

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Patrick

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Rivkah Chaya
I Saw Three Shipments


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It says "big fish" in Jonah. Since the Torah specifies that kosher fish have fins and scales, I would assume that this is to differentiate among "true" fish, and what were thought of as fish, but were mammals or something else.

That said, I doubt that any aquatic mammals the ancient Israelites would be familiar with would be the huge Blue Whale that is commonly depicted in drawings accompanying children's editions of The Book of Jonah.

More importantly, there is a very pursuasive argument by a biblical scholar named Dr. James Ackerman that Jonah was written as satire-- I mean, come on, the cows of Nineveh going around in sackcloth and ashes? The "big fish" being just that, is, in that case in entirely compatible with the tenor of the story.

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ColdPizzaInMyEye
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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When this was written did the authors have any idea about the differences between fish and mammals?

quote:
Originally posted by monkey:
The Bible says he was swallowed by a big fish. Never mentions a whale. A whale is, in fact, not a fish at all. So the common portrayal of Jonah in the belly of a whale is completely inaccurate to what the story says.

It's always bugged me, because if you're going to try to teach your kids that the Bible is true, wouldn't you want to actually teach them the stories that are in the Bible, with the correct details?

Not that I think a story about how God got mad at a guy and made a fish swallow him is entirely appropriate for small children anyway...


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Norton II
Deck the Malls


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Just as a minor point, in the 19th Century, whalers often referred to whales as "whale fish." The old whaling song "The Cold Coast of Greenland" mentions "the sperm whale fishery." This song was collected by Patrick Shuldham Shaw and Emily B. Lyle in their book Sailors' Songs published in 1910.

Another song in Sailors' Songs is called "Greenland Whale Fishery." It was sung by Peter, Paul & Mary and includes the verse:

quote:
Our mate was up in the crow's nest high with a spy glass in his hand
"Oh a whale, oh a whale, oh a whale fish," he cried
"And he blows at every span, brave boys, and he blows at every span"



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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Actually, it's still called whale fishing when you try to catch them.

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/Troberg

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erwins
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Well, in English, I think the more common term is "whaling."

-erwins

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rogue
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I received the following email today:

quote:

i was reading about jonah on the web and all and i came across this message board about bush and the little girl. just thought you should know where that story cam e from. it was a conversation that charles spurgeon had with a member of his congregation.

Jon B
(jon@dpyouth.com)



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