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Author Topic: Pit Bulls want more blood
Ophiuchus
Deck the Malls


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It is funny how easily people like to shrug off the idea of dogs ever possibly being dangerous. Hundreds of people are killed by dogs each year. In fact, more humans have been killed by dogs than by any other animal except mosquitos, fleas and flies (from the bacteria they spread).

There are certain breeds that are overwhelmingly responsible for the bulk of these deaths. It is just true. And, notably, virtually all these dogs that killed people had never killed anyone before (killer dogs tend to be put down, so it tends to me a new one each time).

Now, this doesn't necessarially mean that every dog who is breed X will kill. The number of dogs that kill, maim or even seriously injure is a very, very small fraction of the dogs that exist.

But, it is still best to remember that you are more likely to be harmed by a dog than a wolf, mountain lion or bear combined. However, the third there is another animal to very wary of.

Honestly it eludes me how anyone could have warm, fuzzy feelings for the creature though. I've been threatened and assualted by more of the stupid, filthy beasts than I can even count. Every time I pass a house with one it tries to break down its fence to try to go after me, every time I come across one in a park or on the street they try charging at me. And then there was the pair that some idiot woman had off a leash and tried to kill my brother's cat right after he brought her over to live at my place. I can't imagine that this behavior from dogs is limited to suburbs.

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put it in writing
Xboxing Day


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quote:
But, it is still best to remember that you are more likely to be harmed by a dog than a wolf, mountain lion or bear combined.
I can't help but think that's because you're likely to come into contact with hundreds - if not thousands - of dogs in your life and very, very few uncaged wild animals. Rather than because dogs are more "killer" than mountain lions or bears.

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frogpond
Jingle Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by put it in writing:
quote:
But, it is still best to remember that you are more likely to be harmed by a dog than a wolf, mountain lion or bear combined.
I can't help but think that's because you're likely to come into contact with hundreds - if not thousands - of dogs in your life and very, very few uncaged wild animals. Rather than because dogs are more "killer" than mountain lions or bears.
That's absolutely true.

Opiuchus, I'm sorry you have issues with dogs - I suspect you must have had a traumatic experience of some sort. However, humans are responsible for far more deaths of other humans than dogs - do you think it unreasonable to have warm feelings towards people?

Human society has long depended upon the dog in various roles. The dog is far more friend than foe!

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So many books, so little time.

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I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Ophiuchus, as over-the-top as most of your post was, there is some truth in there:
quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
It is funny how easily people like to shrug off the idea of dogs ever possibly being dangerous. Hundreds of people are killed by dogs each year.

My own two dogs are the most gentle dogs you could find. And they love kids. And they are very tolerant of rough handling and meddling with their food and toys, both through careful training and natural disposition.

But they are still animals with strong jaws, sharp teeth, and no real understanding of human behavior. I would be an idiot to leave my child untended with them. Every dog might bite, and particularly children are vulnerable (being both smaller and having the greater tendency to behave in ways that might provoke a dog along with poorer impulse control.)

quote:
There are certain breeds that are overwhelmingly responsible for the bulk of these deaths. It is just true.
"Just true?" Well, maybe. Most deaths by dogs are from mutts. It's anybody's guess what their geneology is. And the fact that "pit bulls" have the viscious reputation makes people more likely to label them as such once they have already attacked.

quote:
Honestly it eludes me how anyone could have warm, fuzzy feelings for the creature though. I've been threatened and assualted by more of the stupid, filthy beasts than I can even count.
Gosh, I forgot to factor in your experience when I decided to have warm, fuzzy feelings for my own two dogs. Of course, my own dogs are neither stupid nor filthy, as I'm guessing most dogs who inspire warm, fuzzy feelings are not. I have no problem with you not liking dogs, but how could you not see what makes them appealing to others? Loyal, loving, and snuggly are all traits considered positive by the masses.
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Xboxing Day


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I've been around plenty of dogs in my life and have only been assaulted by one (a boxer/dalmation mix owned by a streetpunk, and more miserable beast you never met). I can't help but think that if someone is repeatedly attacked by different dogs, it may be something that person specifically is doing.

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and it's 1 - 2 - 3, what are we fighting for? don't ask me, I don't give a damn

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
Hundreds of people are killed by dogs each year.

Cite, please.

The National Center for Injury Prevention and Control estimates 12 deaths per year in the US. Are you using some worldwide dog fatality statistics not available to the rest of us?

Four Kitties

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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Ophiuchus
Deck the Malls


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I wouldn't expect my experience to affect everyone, I was noting it to illustrate something and that is that I can't imagine I am the only person in the world to have this experience. I've had dogs charge at me and I just froze up and they started barking. In other cases there are those that will bash against their fence barking no matter who or what walks by.

Now, in those cases where people are killed by dogs, there is not a single owner I ever heard of that said to everyone afterwards "Oh, yeah! I totally purposely trained by dog to attack and kill little kids! I trained them on dummies in my backyard and made sure they got a taste for human blood..." No, not even close. The story is ALWAYS "Oh, my poor little sweetums doggie is the cutest, nicest, kindest puppy in the universe! She wouldn't hurt a fly to save her life! She mustn't have done anything wrong. It must be the five-year old's fault! They must have done something horribly nasty and brutal to my sweet little angel!"

Now, as for breeds. Okay, I don't have anything that would even purpote to be scientific research to back me up. I can remember specifically only three cases of people killed by dogs. One was a 3-7 year old girl who wandered into their neighbors backyard to get a ball or something and was killed-- dog in this case as a pit bull. Another was when two boys (the owner's son and his friend) were playing with a dog and the parents left the room and came back to find the boys shredded-- dog in this case was a "mastiff" or something that sounds similar. Third, most famous one, a pair of Pit Bull breeders who lives in an apartment building next door to a lesbian lacrose coach who (I believe) was also somehow disabled. Anyhow, near as anyone can figure since they didn't like gay people they decided to let their two pit bulls loose on her.

In every case the owner said the dog was a kind little angel who never showed even remotely violent tendancies.

Now, on the other hand there are those people who do train their dogs to maul and kill people. In this case it is expected that the people they will attack will be 'tresspassers', 'intruders', 'burglars', etc. and therefore deserve to be eaten alive by a dog. Of course, in these cases if the dog ever does have someone to attack it is inevitably someone that the owners regret having killed. Afterall, the dog doesn't discriminate by age of the tresspasser or what legitamate reasons they might have had for being there (mailman, meter inspector, etc.).

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I have only been bitten by one dog, and that was a Dachshund that bit me when I, a toddler at the time, tried to take its food. I have never even been growled at by anything resembling a pit bull.

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Officially Heartless

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frogpond
Jingle Sales


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Opiuchus, no one is going to admit any part in encouraging a dog to be aggressive when they are likely to be sued.

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So many books, so little time.

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put it in writing
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Anyhow, near as anyone can figure since they didn't like gay people they decided to let their two pit bulls loose on her.

In every case the owner said the dog was a kind little angel who never showed even remotely violent tendancies.

Does anyone else see the conflict between these statements?

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and it's 1 - 2 - 3, what are we fighting for? don't ask me, I don't give a damn

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
Third, most famous one, a pair of Pit Bull breeders who lives in an apartment building next door to a lesbian lacrose coach who (I believe) was also somehow disabled. Anyhow, near as anyone can figure since they didn't like gay people they decided to let their two pit bulls loose on her.

The dogs were Preso Canarios, not pit bulls, the victim was killed, and yours is the first suggestion I've heard that it was a deliberate attack motivated by homophobia.

4K asked once, I'll ask again: do you have any cite for your statement that "hundreds" of people are killed by dogs every year?

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
Third, most famous one, a pair of Pit Bull breeders who lives in an apartment building next door to a lesbian lacrose coach who (I believe) was also somehow disabled. Anyhow, near as anyone can figure since they didn't like gay people they decided to let their two pit bulls loose on her.

In every case the owner said the dog was a kind little angel who never showed even remotely violent tendancies.

Your garbling of the last case throws your entire argument into suspicion. The dogs were not pit bulls, they were Presa Canarios. They were known to be vicious and had been bred by the couple's client/ adopted son who was in prison. Here is a link to an article: Diane Whipple case.

Seriously, do a smidgen of research. Not liking dogs is fine, but don't blame it on statistics you can't even conjure up.

ETA: another link, because the first one was not that good IMO.

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Officially Heartless

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put it in writing
Xboxing Day


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This story about two pits protecting their owner from a chow shows the kind of pit bulls I've always known.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
Honestly it eludes me how anyone could have warm, fuzzy feelings for the creature though. I've been threatened and assualted by more of the stupid, filthy beasts than I can even count.

I probably have more ground to say that about men then you do about dogs. However, I wouldn't believe that(well, I might when I'm drunk, but logic fails when vodka speaks).


You do understand the term "prejudice," right?

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kallrynne
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Honestly it eludes me how anyone could have warm, fuzzy feelings for the creature though. I've been threatened and assualted by more of the stupid, filthy beasts than I can even count. Every time I pass a house with one it tries to break down its fence to try to go after me, every time I come across one in a park or on the street they try charging at me. And then there was the pair that some idiot woman had off a leash and tried to kill my brother's cat right after he brought her over to live at my place.
Sorry, I just envisioned the scene from Family Guy when Death walks into the petstore and all the animals go crazy. Maybe, perhaps, it's because YOU aren't exactly oozing with warm fuzzyness yourself?

That's all I can really say about that. After all, you said it all yourself. You hate dogs. And it probably shows. Why should THEY like YOU?

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Xia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:

As far as dogs being mislabeled as pit bulls, several people have suggested that my Springer Spaniel mix is part pit based solely on the square shape of his head! (He can be seen in the snopes photo contest #9.) My dog is most definitely a spaniel/setter breed...there is absolutely nothing about him physically that's bulldoggish or terrier-like.

I get a lot of people asking me if my terrier mix (photo here) is a "pit bull". There was even one woman in my neighborhood who kept saying my dog was a "pit bull" and was "mean" and refused to go near him! I think she got the "mean" part because his underbite sometimes makes him look like he's sneering... The funny part is she LOVES a dog owned by one of my neighbors, who is an American Pit Bull Terrier/Husky mix! (she doesn't know what mix the dog is...)
I also got many people who thought my foster purebred Chinese Shar-Pei was a pit bull. Huh? [Confused] Yeah sure, I got one of those rare wrinkley, tulip-eared pit bulls!

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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Ophiuchus, of course aggresive dogs who attack usually have clueless owners who never saw any sign of aggression before the attack. Responsible owners keep adequate control of their animals and know their animals sensitivities. And they supervise them around kids. So those are not generally the dogs who attack.

And yeah, if every dog you ever meet is mean to you, you might want to talk to some dog people in person to see how your body language might be perceived as threatening by dogs. It might make your life easier.

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erwins
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
It is funny how easily people like to shrug off the idea of dogs ever possibly being dangerous. Hundreds of people are killed by dogs each year. In fact, more humans have been killed by dogs than by any other animal except mosquitos, fleas and flies (from the bacteria they spread).

Source: Your Ass.

Actual facts: Number one killer animal is...deer, at 130 fatalities a year. Then bees, 43 fatalities a year. Then dogs with, wait for it -- 14 per year. So, BEES are about 3 times deadlier than dogs. And deer about 10 times so. Check it out. I have an actual Source. (Not my ass).

Honestly, Ophiuchus. You obviously have a computer. Please use it. Here's a handy website you might want to acquaint yourself with: www.google.com. Others have taken on the other parts of your post -- most of which have already been extensively refuted before you posted, such as certain breeds being more vicious.

erwins

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erwins
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Xia:
quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:

As far as dogs being mislabeled as pit bulls, several people have suggested that my Springer Spaniel mix is part pit based solely on the square shape of his head! (He can be seen in the snopes photo contest #9.) My dog is most definitely a spaniel/setter breed...there is absolutely nothing about him physically that's bulldoggish or terrier-like.

I get a lot of people asking me if my terrier mix (photo here) is a "pit bull". There was even one woman in my neighborhood who kept saying my dog was a "pit bull" and was "mean" and refused to go near him! I think she got the "mean" part because his underbite sometimes makes him look like he's sneering... The funny part is she LOVES a dog owned by one of my neighbors, who is an American Pit Bull Terrier/Husky mix! (she doesn't know what mix the dog is...)
I also got many people who thought my foster purebred Chinese Shar-Pei was a pit bull. Huh? [Confused] Yeah sure, I got one of those rare wrinkley, tulip-eared pit bulls!

Yeah -- I see dogs labeled as pit bulls on shelter sites that make no sense to me. (But your cutie, a pit bull? Really? I can't believe anyone would think that).

At the same time, I know a dog that has a very irresponsible owner, and that has bitten me on the arms when she got "excited" -- luckily I was wearing a leather jacket at the time, but I got some nasty bruises. That dog also attacked a friend's dog when she was aroused because someone had broken into the house earlier.

She is short haired, and square headed. I initially identified her as a pit mix. But, her parentage is known, and she's actually a mix between a boxer and a herding breed. Anything she does, most people will put at the feet of pit bulls.

Incidentally, as far as terrier 'tude goes, the dog that was attacked was a mini schnauzer. He weighs about 1/5th what the attacking dog weighed. At one point, she had almost his entire head in her mouth. My friend pulled the attacking dog away, and the plucky little (buttheaded) schnauzer kept coming, essentially throwing himself into her jaws again a couple of times before we could get them apart.

erwins

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Xia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Well, not "pit bull" as in a purebred American Pit Bull Terrier, but mixed with pit bull-- except in that one woman's case, she actually said "That's a pit bull!" [Roll Eyes]

As for the mini Schnauzer-- yep, that's a terrier for you. They may not start the fight but they'll probably keep it going...

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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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evilrabbit
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Xia:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cervus:
[qb]
I get a lot of people asking me if my terrier mix (photo here) is a "pit bull". There was even one woman in my neighborhood who kept saying my dog was a "pit bull" and was "mean" and refused to go near him! I think she got the "mean" part because his underbite sometimes makes him look like he's sneering... The funny part is she LOVES a dog owned by one of my neighbors, who is an American Pit Bull Terrier/Husky mix! (she doesn't know what mix the dog is...)
I also got many people who thought my foster purebred Chinese Shar-Pei was a pit bull. Huh? [Confused] Yeah sure, I got one of those rare wrinkley, tulip-eared pit bulls!

What? Do these people any clue what a pit bull is? As far as your terrier, he looks a bit small to be a pit bull (although there isn't much to compare to in the picture), and if you can't recognize a Shar-Pei (at the very least as "those big wrinkly ones" if not by name) than you clearly know nothing about dogs.

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"My sandwich choice is uncertain, until I actually order. It's like Schrodinger's Sandwich."
"Is plutonium involved in this sandwich in any way?"
"Maybe."

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geminilee
The First USA Noel


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I had someone once say that my basset hound/whippet mix was a pit. I don't know how to get a picture up here or I would show what he looks like.

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"Accompanied by the ghosts of dolphins, the ghost of a ship sailed on..." Terry Pratchett

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Terrie
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I have been bitten three times in my life. Twice was by chihuahuas. Considering I've only ever been around ~12 chihuahuas, as opposed to at least 50 different bully-type dogs (none of whom bite me), clearly chihuahuas are highly aggressive and should be done away with. (Bully breeds are those associated with the historical bull dog,such as the APBT, AmStaff, Boxer and Bulldog).

Here's a stat from the book Fatal Dog Attacks (worth a read by anyone with an interest in this issue): there are NO verified fatal attacks involving a neutered or spayed dog. Zero.

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Xia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I've been bitten multiple times but most of those were by my family's cocker spaniel/poodle/terrier mix dog when I was a little kid, who only broke the skin a few times. My parents did not exclaim what a horrible aggressive dog she was and have her put to sleep, they reprimanded me for doing whatever I did that caused her to snap at me. She lived to almost 17 years old.

The only bad bite I ever recieved was from a young unneutered Golden Retriever (stray dog I was trying to help/rescue, he got freaked out when my neighbor's stupid kid brought their crazy puppy outside to "meet" him after I told him not to....) I walked away with 8 puncture wounds on both sides of my hand and recieved 9 stitches. I still have scars. It would have been a worse bite if I had tried to pull away from the dog, but somehow when he grabbed onto my hand I just stood there totally still until he finally released me...

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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Oh come on, surely human blood tastes way better than animal blood. Surely any animal who tries the unique deliciousness that is human blood would have to be hooked. How could we not be better than animals in every conceivable way?

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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snapdragonfly
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Hmm, very interesting facts about "pit bulls" on this thread.

If I am attacked and eaten alive by a dog that is classified, rightly or not, as a "pit bull", it will apparently be due mostly to poor animal husbandry on the parts of the humans, combined with an abuse of the inherent tendencies (tenacious, etc) of the animal. Regardless of whose fault it is - even if it's mine for existing in the wrong space and time in the eyes of the dog - chewed, is chewed, and I don't want to be chewed. I've been bitten by dogs twice. Once a mutt, once a St. Bernard. I was petting them. Very gently.

So until all these boneheaded morons quit manifesting their moronicness by creating dangerous dogs that do so much damage when they are threatened by...whatever it is that threatens dogs...I think I will continue to avidly avoid them. Because I just don't see any reason to give anyone the benefit of the doubt - I have nothing to gain, and a lot to lose. I'm sure most of them are just delightful affectionate animals but I is skeered of dogs.

(I can get animal cuddles that are more to my liking from our cats, rats, and chickens...none of whom bite, though the chickens might poop on you if you hold them too long.)

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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put it in writing
Xboxing Day


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Actually, as a kid I was pecked badly by some particularly nasty chickens.

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and it's 1 - 2 - 3, what are we fighting for? don't ask me, I don't give a damn

Posts: 1319 | From: Florida | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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One of my cats, normally very loving and affectionate, bit me badly enough to send me to the ER. He was sleeping in bed with me, and something I can't identify set him off.

If you're scared of dogs, by all means, stay away from them. No one's suggesting otherwise.

What people are objecting to is the inappropriate demonization of certain breeds, and the spreading of inaccurate information, neither of which protect anyone.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by put it in writing:
Actually, as a kid I was pecked badly by some particularly nasty chickens.

Oh, they can, and especially roosters. Mean chickens end up as pie around here, though... [Eek!]

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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The most vicious animal I ever met was a cat. I did meet an AmStaff who looked at people with a terrified glance, and I wouldn't be surprised if he became a fear biter.

Sister "likes cats, but is a dog person at heart" Ray

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The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

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Xia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Keep in mind that if you DO get bitten by a cat, it's a good idea to go to the doctor even if you don't think it is a bad bite. Cat teeth are like little hypodermic needles, and they 'inject' all the nasty bacteria inside their mouths into your tissues/bloodstream, which could result in a dangerous infection-- by dangerous I mean you could lose a hand, arm, or your life. Doctors will often prescribe antibiotics for cat bites even if the bite does not seem that deep.
Cat scratches are also very nasty as their claws tend to be full of bacteria from the litter box...

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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Xia:
Keep in mind that if you DO get bitten by a cat, it's a good idea to go to the doctor even if you don't think it is a bad bite.

Absolutely. When I was bitten, I actually called my insurer's 24-hour nurse line and asked them if I could wait until morning (it was 2 am) and call my doctor. The nurse strongly advised against it, especially since the bite was on my finger (the potential for swelling is worse in a confined area).

The ER gave me IV antibiotics and a rx for a course of oral antibiotics. Even with prompt treatment, there was a fair amount of swelling and considerable pain. Which is another good reason to seek treatment -- the ER also gave me Vicodin, which I was very grateful for that first day.

It's possible I'm just a wimp, though.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Xia:
Cat teeth are like little hypodermic needles, and they 'inject' all the nasty bacteria inside their mouths into your tissues/bloodstream

Do you mean they're like hypodermic needles in that they're dirty and disease ridden, or in that they're hollow?

I really don't think they're hollow.

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Officially Heartless

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Xia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I guess I just meant like needles in how they puncture your skin-- they are long and come to a very small sharp point which thrusts the bacteria covering their needle teeth deep into your skin. Nasty stuff. The bites, I mean, not the cats themselves. I quite like cats as long as they are not biting me. [Wink]

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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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betabox
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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For what little it's worth, I love dogs, and hate cats. As a result of this, I have had seven dogs, and no cats.

If you like cats that's fine with me, but keep them away from me, and don't try to convince me how wonderful they are. In return, I'll try to keep from telling you that you should like dogs.

It's funny, but a lot of people seem to be horrified by the fact that I hate cats until I tell them I'm allergic to cats, then it's apparently OK. The allergy isn't all that severe, and it is definitely NOT the reason I hate cats, but it seems to keep the cat-lovers satisfied.

I'll also restate something others have already said: Humans are animals, and they've killed more humans than any other (macroscopic) animal.

-bb

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