snopes.com Post new topic  Post a reply
search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello snopes.com » Urban Legends » Critter Country » PETA Kills Animals? (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
Author Topic: PETA Kills Animals?
emmastarr
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 16 posted      Profile for emmastarr   E-mail emmastarr   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
www.petakillsanimals.com

Feel free to spank me for not doing my own research, but is this stuff from reliable sources?
Cos if it is I need to rethink my stance on a lot of things...

Posts: 40 | From: England | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for snapdragonfly     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
from the "about us" at the bottom of the page:

"PETA Kills Animals" is a project of the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF), a nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting the full range of choices that American consumers currently enjoy. In addition to malicious animal-rights activists, we stand up to the "food police," environmental scaremongers, neo-prohibitionists, meddling bureaucrats, and other self-anointed saints who claim to "know what's best" for you.

Our "Daily Headlines" service provides valuable information about these activists, and analysis of their activities. If you would like to sign up for this e-mail service, click here. CCF's other websites include AnimalScam.com, CSPIscam.com, PhysicianScam, and the award-winning ActivistCash.com.

We welcome your support. Click here to make a financial contribution. Donations to CCF are tax-deductible under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

If you have any comments, questions or gripes, feel free to contact us.
***

Agenda much? I think these folks are the flip side of the extremist coin, neither of which I have any use for.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
emmastarr
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 1 posted      Profile for emmastarr   E-mail emmastarr   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
This is what perturbed me. PETA are tinfoil hat enough for me without tinfoil hat wearers exposing the tinfoil hat wearers....

I'm going to drink something caffinated and have a long think.

Posts: 40 | From: England | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
tootiredtocare
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for tootiredtocare     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
An episode of Penn and Teller's B******* did reveal that PETA kills lots of animals each year. They put the animals into large freezers and then leave the animals overnight. PETA employees if memory serves were caught dumping animal corpses in dumpsters they had put to death at the PETA headquarters. I would have to do some reasearch to get the cite.
Posts: 320 | From: Birmingham, Alabama | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ariadne
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ariadne   E-mail Ariadne   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by emmastarr:
This is what perturbed me. PETA are tinfoil hat enough for me without tinfoil hat wearers exposing the tinfoil hat wearers....

I'm going to drink something caffinated and have a long think.

I agree. I am all for animal rights and ethical treatment of animals; I avoid eating meat and wearing leather, buy products that are not tested on animals whenever possible, eat free-range chicken eggs, and of course spoil my own (rescued, of course) pets like crazy [Big Grin] . However, PETA is way too extreme for me, and, I think, tends to detract support from the animal rights movement through their extreme measures. This site really is just doing the same thing on the other end of the spectrum.

Yikes.

Wow, it seems like all of my posts lately have been on the topic of animal rights and welfare. Sheesh, I've got to head over to Glurge Gallery or something.

--------------------
saxea ut effigies bacchantis prospicit eheu | prospicit et magnis curarum fluctuat undis
-Catullus

Posts: 435 | From: Iowa | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
landmammal
Deck the Malls


Icon 502 posted      Profile for landmammal   E-mail landmammal   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by tootiredtocare:
They put the animals into large freezers and then leave the animals overnight. PETA employees if memory serves were caught dumping animal corpses in dumpsters they had put to death at the PETA headquarters.

They euthanize the animals normally, but store the bodies in the freezers. They're being sued because they took the animals from local shelters saying they would find homes for them, but put them to sleep instead. You're right about getting caught putting bodies in dumpsters.

I read this in an AP article on Yahoo news, but searching for it only takes me to the AP archives, and there's a charge for accessing.

--------------------
I can't put my arms down!

Posts: 273 | From: California | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
NocturnalGoddess- naughty or nice?
Carol of the Dells


Icon 1 posted      Profile for NocturnalGoddess- naughty or nice?     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
They admit to euthanaisia right on their website. They're also undergoing (might be past tence, as it's been some time) investigation for destroying animals the state understood would be adopted out. i'm just surprized that this is news.

Oh, they also claim to advocate trap-and-kill over trap-and-alter, even going so far as to claim (contrary to research) that trap-and-alter programs are ineffective [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
"I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, EVIL stuff... and I want in."- Homer Simpson

Posts: 2161 | From: Delaware | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
StillandSilent
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for StillandSilent   E-mail StillandSilent   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
PETA also lectures on the evils of no kill shelters. Thats right, it's better for groups to take in more animals and euthanize, then keep the ones they already have. Working in a no kill shelter, that one really frosted my cookies.
Posts: 75 | From: Morganton NC | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 107 posted      Profile for Sister Ray   Author's Homepage   E-mail Sister Ray   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I lost my patience with the group when I saw they'd rather find different ways to euthenize pets rather than, I don't know, making sure that they promote spay/neuter.

Sister "how silly would that be?" Ray

--------------------
The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

Posts: 2719 | From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
PetLover
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 1 posted      Profile for PetLover     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
The admin of the website I frequent www.IHeartPaws.com wrote this article http://www.iheartpaws.com/articles/40/1/Non-Profit-Organizations--Beware-of-the-Bad-Apples-by-Christina-Harvey.html

It was a total eye opener for me!!!!

Posts: 21 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Aptenodytes_Forsteriis
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Aptenodytes_Forsteriis     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
You are doing much more good with your $s if you donate to a good no-kill shelter or rescue program. I personally donate to ARF, because I believe they actually help animals in distress, and they don't promote nonsense like 'meat is murder'. I am not calling vegetarianism nonsense, just vegetarianism based on the notion that eatng meat is morally wrong.

--------------------
'Hello, assorted humanoid strangers. You are standing casually in our forest. This bewilders us.' Blatherskite

Posts: 950 | From: Cincinnati, Ohio | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
The Pikey Snow Queen
The First USA Noel


Icon 1 posted      Profile for The Pikey Snow Queen   Author's Homepage     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Aptenodytes_Forsteriis:
I am not calling vegetarianism nonsense, just vegetarianism based on the notion that eatng meat is morally wrong.

Surely people are entitled to their own opinion on this. I believe it's wrong to eat meat, so I don't. I'm not inflicting it on you, so why insult me by calling it nonsense?

--------------------
Brosandi. Hendumst hringi
Hldumst hendur
Allur heimurinn skr
Nema stendur

Posts: 694 | From: York, UK | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mistletoey Chloe     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
We've had this discussion before, Pikey, and I ended up concluding that A.F. was suffering from meat eater's guilt.

--------------------
~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

Posts: 10111 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Lonely Mountain
Jingle All the Layaway


Icon 501 posted      Profile for Lonely Mountain   E-mail Lonely Mountain   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
PETA seems to be against any interaction between animals or humans. This includes normal animal activist things like fur, eating meat, and animals used in medical research but they also include:

pets, aquariums, horseback riding, seeing-eye dogs, hunting, fishing, circuses, police K-9 units, drug and bomb detecting dogs, dog and horse racing, eggs, dairy, animal shelters, and pest control (including rats, mice, roaches, and mosquitoes)

I'm sorry but this just really gets to me when they claim that all of the above is criminal. They even go as far as to equate the above with serial killers, Nazi concentration camps, slavery, cannibalism and calling parents who give their children eggs, meat or dairy "child abusers."

All this and they euthanize animals, support known terrorists, and terrorist groups like the ALF and the ELF, condones and even suggests that violence and terrorism be used, and still uses the very products they abhor.

PETA Vice-President MaryBeth Sweetland said this in January 1990 in Glamour magazine:
"I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic. Twice a day I take synthetically manufactured insulin that still contains some animal products -- and I have no qualms about it ... I'm not going to take the chance of killing myself by not taking insulin. I don't see myself as a hypocrite. I need my life to fight for the rights of animals."

So animal products are fine when it's your own butt on the line?

[flame]

Grrrr... maybe I should have put this in the Rantidote section [Mad]

--------------------
"Tis too much proved that with devotion's visage and pious action we do sugar o'er the devil himself." - Hamlet

Posts: 344 | From: Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Aptenodytes_Forsteriis
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Aptenodytes_Forsteriis     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
We've had this discussion before, Pikey, and I ended up concluding that A.F. was suffering from meat eater's guilt.

[Big Grin]

Do other carnivores and omnivores suffer from this as well? I'm picturing the Momma Tiger taking the cubs to a Psychiatrist to deal with their issues about the antelope.

Seriously, if predation is morally wrong then most life is immoral. The more advanced (in terms of biological complexity) life forms, live by eating other life forms. Most life is dependant on killing for food.

If you refrain from eating meat because meat is murder then I believe your decision is based upon nonsense. If you refrain because specific practices in the meat packaging industry offend you, you may have a point. If you refrain for health concerns, morer power to you. If you refrain for reasons of taste, the who cares what I think?

--------------------
'Hello, assorted humanoid strangers. You are standing casually in our forest. This bewilders us.' Blatherskite

Posts: 950 | From: Cincinnati, Ohio | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ophiuchus
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ophiuchus   E-mail Ophiuchus   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Okay, I can kind of see why recreational (just for fun) hunting & fishing, dog & horse racing, circuses, K9 units and even lethal pest control might raise some ethical questions if one really considers it... Each of those threatens to wipe out whole species of animals (and has done so before) or is an industry well known for animal abuse.

But pets, when treated well, and seeing eye dogs which are pretty universally treated well I can't see why one would have a problem with.

The capture and kill rather than capture and spay/nueter and return to the wild I can understand if you take into consideration what wild cats and dogs do to bird and other animal populations. Some areas have all but lost their wild bird populations because of high numbers of wild cats.

Posts: 411 | From: California | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ULTRAGLORIA
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


Icon 1 posted      Profile for ULTRAGLORIA     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Ophiuchus --It is better for an animal to be dead than to be a slave to humans.


No-kill animal shelters just perpetuate animal slavery.

It doesn't matter how well you treat your "pet". It's still an enslaved animal.

And animals have all the rights humans have, and more.

You wouldn't advocate slavery of human beings just because the masters treated the slaves well, would you?

ULTRA "Attempting to channel PETA." GOTHA

--------------------
A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Posts: 2495 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ryda Wong, EBfCo.   E-mail Ryda Wong, EBfCo.   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Aptenodytes_Forsteriis:

Do other carnivores and omnivores suffer from this as well? I'm picturing the Momma Tiger taking the cubs to a Psychiatrist to deal with their issues about the antelope.

Seriously, if predation is morally wrong then most life is immoral.

No, it would be ammoral. Morality is a human concept, therefore applicable to only us (not that animals might not have something LIKE morals, just that our idea of "moral" is unique to the species).

And, if we went by what other predators did, it would be just fine to eat extra/unwanted/unwelcome offspring. Now, if you want to support this, AF, go right ahead. I think most people would consider it a bit brutal, and you might be taken to jail, but, hey, I bet baby is darned tasty.

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ryda Wong, EBfCo.   E-mail Ryda Wong, EBfCo.   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lonely Mountain:
PETA seems to be against any interaction between animals or humans. This includes normal animal activist things like fur, eating meat, and animals used in medical research but they also include:

pets, aquariums, horseback riding, seeing-eye dogs, hunting, fishing, circuses, police K-9 units, drug and bomb detecting dogs, dog and horse racing, eggs, dairy, animal shelters, and pest control (including rats, mice, roaches, and mosquitoes)

I'm sorry but this just really gets to me when they claim that all of the above is criminal. They even go as far as to equate the above with serial killers, Nazi concentration camps, slavery, cannibalism and calling parents who give their children eggs, meat or dairy "child abusers."

While I can't condone their illegal activities, I can absolulty see where profound respect for life, not just human life, might produce this idea. Taking it radical and acting in an illegsl manner, however, is out of line, as would be legislation to ban human-animal interactions that do not result in the death/debilitation of said animal.

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 08 posted      Profile for Mistletoey Chloe     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Aptenodytes_Forsteriis:
Originally posted by Chloe:
We've had this discussion before, Pikey, and I ended up concluding that A.F. was suffering from meat eater's guilt.

quote:
[Big Grin]

Do other carnivores and omnivores suffer from this as well? I'm picturing the Momma Tiger taking the cubs to a Psychiatrist to deal with their issues about the antelope.

Seriously, if predation is morally wrong then most life is immoral. The more advanced (in terms of biological complexity) life forms, live by eating other life forms. Most life is dependant on killing for food.

Many lifeforms also commit incest and/or cannibalism. We can either claim that because they do it it's ok for us to do it too, or we can claim that humans are, uniquely as far as we know, capable of moral choices. The latter seems to make more sense.
quote:
If you refrain from eating meat because meat is murder then I believe your decision is based upon nonsense.
So do I, as this is a strawman. Murder is a legal term that does not apply to other species. But it's not, I think, the nonsense you are referring to. Can you be more specific?

--------------------
~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

Posts: 10111 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 1 posted      Profile for ThistleSoftware     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Aptenodytes_Forsteriis:
quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
We've had this discussion before, Pikey, and I ended up concluding that A.F. was suffering from meat eater's guilt.

[Big Grin]

Do other carnivores and omnivores suffer from this as well? I'm picturing the Momma Tiger taking the cubs to a Psychiatrist to deal with their issues about the antelope.

Seriously, if predation is morally wrong then most life is immoral. The more advanced (in terms of biological complexity) life forms, live by eating other life forms. Most life is dependant on killing for food.

If you refrain from eating meat because meat is murder then I believe your decision is based upon nonsense. If you refrain because specific practices in the meat packaging industry offend you, you may have a point. If you refrain for health concerns, morer power to you. If you refrain for reasons of taste, the who cares what I think?

You seem to think that you have figured out every possible reason someone might find meat eating immoral and dismissed each in turn.

My reasoning for finding meat eating unethical is complex and not easily distilled into one of your little bullet points. I don't think "meat is murder" or have any other simple catch phrase for my thinking.

I think meat is the least efficient way to feed people, and that exorbitant waste is unethical.

I think killing to survive when you have many other options is unethical.

I think hiring other people to kill your food for you is, if not exactly unethical, not exactly ideal either.

All in all I find meat eating to be unnecessary and imprudent. I do not share these views with meat eaters unless they ask, though. Having been prodded I must say I find your idea that it is natural and proper for humans to scavenge rather nonsensical. After all, we aren't behaving as predators when we eat packaged meat- we're eating what others have killed.

--------------------
Officially Heartless

Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
geminilee
The First USA Noel


Icon 1 posted      Profile for geminilee   E-mail geminilee   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I would like to point out that plants are alive, also. If you argument is suffering should be avoided, you have a point. If your argument is life is not to be killed, you cannot avoid it, period. Unless you are a raw fruitist, and I think you would still be killing whtever sorts of microscopic life was living on the fruit when you either washed it or ate it.

--------------------
"Accompanied by the ghosts of dolphins, the ghost of a ship sailed on..." Terry Pratchett

Posts: 660 | From: Gainesville, FL | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mistletoey Chloe     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
But, if your goal is to avoid killing and you are considering plant life too, avoiding eating meat also makes sense, since animals bred and killed for their meat eat huge quantities of plant life. However, in my experience, when people bring up "Plants are alive too! What about the poor plants?" it tends to mean that they want to justify their own choices rather than that they are genuinely concerned about the death of plants. YMMV, of course.

--------------------
~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

Posts: 10111 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ganzfeld     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
We can either claim that because they do it it's ok for us to do it too, or we can claim that humans are, uniquely as far as we know, capable of moral choices. The latter seems to make more sense.

Is this a true dichotomy?
Posts: 4922 | From: Kyoto, Japan | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mistletoey Chloe     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I guess you could say that animal behavior is irrelevant, but someone who brings it up to prove something about human behavior is unlikely to accept that.

--------------------
~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

Posts: 10111 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Cestrian
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cestrian   E-mail Cestrian   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
I guess you could say that animal behavior is irrelevant, but someone who brings it up to prove something about human behavior is unlikely to accept that.

"All living things are equal and some are more equal than others"
Church of the Blessed Carrot

--------------------
"Endeavour to persevere"

Posts: 104 | From: Gravesend, UK | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
The Pikey Snow Queen
The First USA Noel


Icon 1 posted      Profile for The Pikey Snow Queen   Author's Homepage     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
We've had this discussion before, Pikey, and I ended up concluding that A.F. was suffering from meat eater's guilt.

Oh, that explains it then. Protesting too much, maybe? I won't bore anyone with ranting about this issue again then [Smile]

My official position on the matter is that it is personal choice.

--------------------
Brosandi. Hendumst hringi
Hldumst hendur
Allur heimurinn skr
Nema stendur

Posts: 694 | From: York, UK | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
geminilee
The First USA Noel


Icon 1 posted      Profile for geminilee   E-mail geminilee   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I did not bring up "the poor plants" because I was concerned for them, just extending the logic. If it is wrong to eat animals simply because they are alive, then it is wrong to eat plants, as they are no less alive. I am not bringing it up to justify my choices, because I do not think justification is required; I am just really bugged by logical flaws. (Not the right word, but I just got up. My thesaurus is on the fritz)

--------------------
"Accompanied by the ghosts of dolphins, the ghost of a ship sailed on..." Terry Pratchett

Posts: 660 | From: Gainesville, FL | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mistletoey Chloe     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Who said it was wrong to eat animals simply because they are alive, though?

--------------------
~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

Posts: 10111 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 1 posted      Profile for ThistleSoftware     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by geminilee:
I did not bring up "the poor plants" because I was concerned for them, just extending the logic. If it is wrong to eat animals simply because they are alive, then it is wrong to eat plants, as they are no less alive. I am not bringing it up to justify my choices, because I do not think justification is required; I am just really bugged by logical flaws. (Not the right word, but I just got up. My thesaurus is on the fritz)

I don't think criticizing the consumption of plants follows in a logical way from my argument. Furthermore, I said not that killing was absolutely unethical, but that killing when you had other options was unethical. We have no other option for survival besides eating plants.

--------------------
Officially Heartless

Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Aptenodytes_Forsteriis
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Aptenodytes_Forsteriis     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ThistleS:
quote:
Originally posted by Aptenodytes_Forsteriis:
quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
We've had this discussion before, Pikey, and I ended up concluding that A.F. was suffering from meat eater's guilt.

[Big Grin]

Do other carnivores and omnivores suffer from this as well? I'm picturing the Momma Tiger taking the cubs to a Psychiatrist to deal with their issues about the antelope.

Seriously, if predation is morally wrong then most life is immoral. The more advanced (in terms of biological complexity) life forms, live by eating other life forms. Most life is dependant on killing for food.

If you refrain from eating meat because meat is murder then I believe your decision is based upon nonsense. If you refrain because specific practices in the meat packaging industry offend you, you may have a point. If you refrain for health concerns, morer power to you. If you refrain for reasons of taste, the who cares what I think?

You seem to think that you have figured out every possible reason someone might find meat eating immoral and dismissed each in turn.

My reasoning for finding meat eating unethical is complex and not easily distilled into one of your little bullet points. I don't think "meat is murder" or have any other simple catch phrase for my thinking.

I think meat is the least efficient way to feed people, and that exorbitant waste is unethical.

I think killing to survive when you have many other options is unethical.

I think hiring other people to kill your food for you is, if not exactly unethical, not exactly ideal either.

All in all I find meat eating to be unnecessary and imprudent. I do not share these views with meat eaters unless they ask, though. Having been prodded I must say I find your idea that it is natural and proper for humans to scavenge rather nonsensical. After all, we aren't behaving as predators when we eat packaged meat- we're eating what others have killed.

not true. I dismissed only one of them and acknowledged that the other reasons I listed might be valid. I did not intend my list as complete, and apologize if I gave the impression that it was so intended.

--------------------
'Hello, assorted humanoid strangers. You are standing casually in our forest. This bewilders us.' Blatherskite

Posts: 950 | From: Cincinnati, Ohio | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 1 posted      Profile for ThistleSoftware     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
That is true, A_F, I apologize for misrepresenting you somewhat.

--------------------
Officially Heartless

Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Demonic Matt
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Demonic Matt   E-mail Demonic Matt   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Here's a link to watch the Penn And Teller episode on the PETA:


http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7562800910863882593&q=penn+teller+bullshit

Posts: 60 | From: North Wales | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
PetLover
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 1 posted      Profile for PetLover     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
So the relationship humans have with dogs for tens and thousands of years is unnatural? Horses too? Wow... you're quite the extremeist.

There is no such thing as a good extreme... sorry, but it's true.

Posts: 21 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for snapdragonfly     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
On the Penn and Teller episode -

I can't stand Ted Nugent and I don't see how anything he has to say is anything other than just one guy's opinion, and other than having one, I don't really see that he's particularly qualified as a spokesperson. I would have been more impressed if he hadn't been featured, frankly.

It was funny, the scene where they are eating KFC and the chicken is pecking at it. Chickens will eat chicken. Their FAVORITE thing is leftover fried chicken. They are omnivores. They have no problem eating chicken, let me tell you.

They are also not stupid, and if they were, I don't see how that's an arguement for eating them. Penn and Teller indulge in some logical fallcies, I think -and I don't have a problem with people eating them - my only problem is the inhumane way that it is almost always done.

There seemed to be only two sides presented in the program - nutso PETA extremists who go around bombing people and don't want animals to be utilized in any way, even as pets, and "I'll eat meat if I WANTA!!! Because PETA IS STOOPID and animals are STOOPID" beligerance that kind of came across in the program. Sort of turned me off.

Noplace did I find my own view represented - that using animals and eating animals would not be cruel at all if it was just done HUMANELY. (now, as far as sustainable, there's definitely a point to the not enough acreage for every human to eat beef angle. Can't argue with that.) Meat production and processing is not done humanely at all right now - it COULD be done humanely - and there's no reason it shouldn't be done humanely.

Did anyone ever hear the NPR show about Temple Grandin, a highly functioning autistic woman, who consults with McDonalds and other food production companies as to more humane ways to treat animals? Because of her autism she is able to understand how animals see things and behave and she is instituting changes like the manner in which the chutes are configured - gentle curves are soothing to cows, sudden angles are scarey to them, and why should any part of their lives, no matter how short, be unnecessarily terrifying?

That's pretty much my "beef", heh, with meat and eggs and milk. We could do it in a more humane way and it would be healthier for us in the long run.

But PETA is unpractical and wacko. We can use animals for our benefit without being cruel, I don't know why that's not the end we are working towards.

I have no use for either extreme in this case.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
  This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post new topic  Post a reply Close topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Urban Legends Reference Pages

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2