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Author Topic: PETA Kills Animals?
NormaDesmond
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
On the Penn and Teller episode -

I can't stand Ted Nugent and I don't see how anything he has to say is anything other than just one guy's opinion, and other than having one, I don't really see that he's particularly qualified as a spokesperson. I would have been more impressed if he hadn't been featured, frankly.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, Nugent's a lifelong hunter who seems fairly knowledgeable, in the way hunters often are, about the behavior patterns of the animals they hunt. He's a fairly intelligent, very articulate person. Doesn't mean I agree with him, or that he doesn't irritate the piss out of me, but I'm always surprised by how well he makes his arguments.

quote:
Penn and Teller indulge in some logical fallcies, I think ...
My astonishment knows no bounds.

quote:
There seemed to be only two sides presented in the program - nutso PETA extremists who go around bombing people and don't want animals to be utilized in any way, even as pets, and "I'll eat meat if I WANTA!!! Because PETA IS STOOPID and animals are STOOPID" beligerance that kind of came across in the program.
That would be the P&T modus operandi. They never have the intellectual honesty to represent the reasoned, intelligent arguments against their positions -- they just bring on the wingnuts, so that refuting them is like shooting fish in a barrel. Perhaps his enforced silence gives Teller, whom I occasionally see at the health food store, a fondness for straw men.

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There was a maharajah who came all the way from India to beg one of her silk stockings. Later he strangled himself with it!

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Lonely Mountain
Jingle All the Layaway


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quote:
Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
Ophiuchus --It is better for an animal to be dead than to be a slave to humans.


No-kill animal shelters just perpetuate animal slavery.

It doesn't matter how well you treat your "pet". It's still an enslaved animal.

And animals have all the rights humans have, and more.

You wouldn't advocate slavery of human beings just because the masters treated the slaves well, would you?

ULTRA "Attempting to channel PETA." GOTHA

Are you serious with this post or just playing devil's advocate? Saying that pets are slaves is ridiculous. Domesticated animals live longer and have higher quality of life than their wild counter parts.

This is because pets are much less vulnerable to predators, food is plentiful, and they even have health care. I'm sorry, but these are benefits that most humans on this planet do not currently enjoy.

If anything, we are a slave to our pets because we have to provide their every need. But it's still not slavery because we do this for our pets because we want to and because we care for them. A slave is someone forced to do something against their will which is not the case with pets.

Also, animals do not have the same rights as humans. Even humans don't all have the same rights. Rights are not just giving people the freedom to do something. It also involves protection of those rights and punishment for those who violate those rights. It requires one to know the difference between right and wrong which are concepts completely unknown to animals. Are we going to lock up lions for murdering zebras? How about bears that eat salmon and other wildlife when they can eat vegetation? How about a male hippo that kills another male over a female? What about rats that will each other including their young will food becomes scarce?

Animals don't follow a list of agreed upon freedoms and codes of behavior just because you say they do.

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"Tis too much proved that with devotion's visage and pious action we do sugar o'er the devil himself." - Hamlet

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Lonely Mountain:
quote:
Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
ULTRA "Attempting to channel PETA." GOTHA

Are you serious with this post or just playing devil's advocate?
Did you note Ultragotha's signature to that post? I think it answers your question.

Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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Oceanic Aura
The First USA Noel


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I have a feeling I'm very much going to regret anything I say in this thread, but here goes anyways!

Harvesting of grain kills thousands of animals, maybe even millions. Shrews, moles and rabbits are all shredded to death evey year, every harvest.

Doing it by hand is the only way to ensure that no animal dies in harvesting, and that method is inadequate to meet the world's food needs. So, not even a vegetarian diet is bloodless. You might not ingest the meat yourself, but many animals still died.

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"Are we talking misdemeanor trouble or squeal like a pig trouble?"

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NormaDesmond
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by Oceanic Aura:
I have a feeling I'm very much going to regret anything I say in this thread, but here goes anyways!

Harvesting of grain kills thousands of animals, maybe even millions. Shrews, moles and rabbits are all shredded to death evey year, every harvest.

Doing it by hand is the only way to ensure that no animal dies in harvesting, and that method is inadequate to meet the world's food needs. So, not even a vegetarian diet is bloodless. You might not ingest the meat yourself, but many animals still died.

I certainly don't regret you said that; it's a fascinating point to add to the discussion. It had never occurred to me, although now that you mention it it seems perfectly obvious. Wow.

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There was a maharajah who came all the way from India to beg one of her silk stockings. Later he strangled himself with it!

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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About those who say eating meat isn't exactly necessary: What if there were a drought of some kind and there weren't any crops? Also, I agree with snapdragonfly. Although I admit, I am eating chicken at the moment..

Also, why the hell does PETA pefer Ethuinization over No kill shelters?

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"High-Five!" - Borat

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by HSSenior:
About those who say eating meat isn't exactly necessary: What if there were a drought of some kind and there weren't any crops? Also, I agree with snapdragonfly. Although I admit, I am eating chicken at the moment..

Also, why the hell does PETA pefer Ethuinization over No kill shelters?

HSS, I am always grateful when anyone agrees with me for any reason, [Big Grin] but I believe if there were a drought of some kind and there weren't any crops, the animals would soon starve anyway and we'd all pretty much be screwed, unless we resorted to some sort of Soylent Green scenario. Heh.

My one little contribution: I keep chickens (for eggs) so I know that my eggs, at least, are cruelty free.

Unless you count DH and I laughing at my girls, every morning on the back porch as we drink our coffee, when they jump off of the big pecan tree where they roost at night and flap/free fall to the ground, as cruel. (look, they are the ones who refuse to use the coop, I can't help it!)

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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That's true. I really do like your position on the animal rights and if I could, I'd get free range meat and such, but honest to god, I'm too used to eating meat..

As for ThistleS view: I can understand your point: there seems to be a lot more crops than cows or sheep.

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"High-Five!" - Borat

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Oceanic Aura
The First USA Noel


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I don't think anyone on this board is advocating vegetariansim for everyone, as most seem to believe that is a personal choice. That said, it's got me thinking.

So, keep in mind that this is all hypothetical speculation on my part.

Let us imagine that tomorrow we all wake up and no one eats meat anymore. First thing that comes to mind - all the meat farmers are out of jobs. As are all the people in the meat packing industry, all the butchers, most of your fast food workers (McDonalds would not be an empire without nuggets and burgers). So there's millions of people with no job.

Second thing - what do we do with all the animals? We can't just kill them all. We've got to feed and care for these animals till they all die off. That would take a lot of money. We'll be broke trying to support the millions out of jobs, so that could be tricky.

I suppose we could kill what we have left, eat that, and then go veggie. We would still have a lot of people with out a job, but at least we would be spending millions supporting all the cows and chickens.

And then you have non-Western cultures dependent upon animals. The Maasai come to mind. Their entire culture revolves around the cow - how would it survive with out? Of course, the Maasai have other practices most (myself included) find repellent, like clitorodectomy, so on one hand maybe they are in need of life style change. On the other hand, I think Tribal life is something that we should strive to preserve.

This ends the meandering hypothetical speculation, feel free to adapt it into the plot of your next science fiction novel.

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"Are we talking misdemeanor trouble or squeal like a pig trouble?"

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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tis true, Cows and Chickens were made to be domesticated animals, even if one objects to eating them

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"High-Five!" - Borat

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Oceanic Aura
The First USA Noel


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P.S. to the above:

I alread refrain from red meat because of unpleasant IBS stuff no one wants to hear about. I've been much more irritated than usual as of late. I'm thinking of totally eliminating meat to see if that helps any so if anyone has any (cheap!) suggestions, I'm open.

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"Are we talking misdemeanor trouble or squeal like a pig trouble?"

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Ariadne
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by ThistleS My reasoning for finding meat eating unethical is complex and not easily distilled into one of your little bullet points. I don't think "meat is murder" or have any other simple catch phrase for my thinking.

I think meat is the least efficient way to feed people, and that exorbitant waste is unethical.

I think killing to survive when you have many other options is unethical.

I think hiring other people to kill your food for you is, if not exactly unethical, not exactly ideal either.

All in all I find meat eating to be unnecessary and imprudent. I do not share these views with meat eaters unless they ask, though. Having been prodded I must say I find your idea that it is natural and proper for humans to scavenge rather nonsensical. After all, we aren't behaving as predators when we eat packaged meat- we're eating what others have killed.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. I don't eat meat because I feel that the meat industry, and in particular, factory farming, is cruel, wasteful, terrible for the environment, and disgusting. Also, I love animals and don't feel the need for one to be killed in order for me to eat. However, I recognize that this is my view only, and I don't try to impose it on anyone. My husband eats meat, and that is fine with me. The decision not to eat meat, and how far to take that decision, is a personal one. For example, I know I am not perfect in my meat avoidance. I will have the occasional piece of fish (I have a list of which are in danger of being overfished and which are sustainable), and I do eat eggs (I buy free-range) and most dairy products. I know this isn't ideal, since the dairy industry suffers from many of the same problems as the meat industry, but it is what works for me.

HSSenior, I think the drought that you hypothesize is an extenuating circumstance. It is like asking asking a vegetarian, "what if you were trapped in a cave with a cow, and there was nothing else to eat..." There are circumstances when eating meat is necessary, just not for the average American (I am not saying here that Americans should give up eating meat, just that it would, in theory, be possible for most of us to live without it). Also, just because animals were bred to be eaten does not mean I have to eat them, or that they don't need to be treated well.

Aura, the questions you ask are one of the main reasons I disagree with PETA, as they seem to want everyone to stop eating meat immediately, but they do not think about the consequences. Personally, I have no problem with people eating meat; my beef (okay, how many times will this stupid pun be used in this thread?) is with the meat industry's practices. I don't think everyone should drop their steak knives and pick up a plate of tofu, just that animals should be treated better.

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saxea ut effigies bacchantis prospicit eheu | prospicit et magnis curarum fluctuat undis
-Catullus

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Ariadne
Deck the Malls


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Aura, I have some digestive issues as well (not IBS, but similar symptoms). If you want info on vegetarianism and tummy issues, PM me, as I don't want to totally hijack this thread and/or gross people out. [Razz]

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saxea ut effigies bacchantis prospicit eheu | prospicit et magnis curarum fluctuat undis
-Catullus

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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Actually, the reason I brought up the drought bit was because ThistleS said that she found killing for food when there are other options is unethical. The thing is, we're herbivores, but like you all said: choosing not to eat meat is a personal choice

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"High-Five!" - Borat

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Ariadne, I share your views, and if I lived alone and not with a really carnivorous family I'd probably be veggie most days of the week and I could then afford to get free range organic meat when I wanted it occasionally.

I am encouraged though, at the availability and increasing affordability of organic foods and free range organic eggs (even in WALMART!) and organic milk and soon, I hope, organic free range meat will be within my range. (I could afford it for just myself right now, because I am happy with 2 to 4 oz a serving, but my husband eats 3 times what I do (and he's not fat - he's got an incredibly high metabolism I guess) and I just can't afford all that organic meat or milk for him.)

Once people taste the difference they seem to be willing to pay more, to the extent that they are able. There are about 12 items I regularly buy only organic now, including milk for my daughter, who drinks less than my husband does and I don't like the idea of growth hormones in her body that her body didn't make on it's own.

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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Are these organic foods avaliable at other places besides the dreaded Walmart?

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"High-Five!" - Borat

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Oh yes, in fact I'm in hog heaven because our town finally got a really viable and well stocked and reasonably priced health food store with REAL food, not just vitamins! WOOT! I buy everything I can there. In fact sometimes their prices even beat Walmart!

In larger cities you have places like Whole Foods, Central Market, or Market Street.

Look around, and support locally owned businesses whenever you can.

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Ariadne
Deck the Malls


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I share your dread of Wal-Mart, HSSenior. It seems that almost every grocery store has at least a smalIl organic and natural foods section. They are more expensive, but organic foods really do taste better in most cases. By this, I mean they actually have flavor!

Oh, how I miss living in a place that had Whole Foods, Wild Oats, and Vitamin Cottage (not just vitamins, but food, too) all close by. Where I live now there is one little, expensive, natural foods store half an hour away. Not bad, but not ideal, either.

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saxea ut effigies bacchantis prospicit eheu | prospicit et magnis curarum fluctuat undis
-Catullus

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StillandSilent
I Saw Three Shipments


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HSSenior- I think the issue was that it is cruel to keep the animals in a sort of limbo, without a home or people that care about them, living in filthy conditions. The other problem was that most no kill shelters do not accept every animal, most have a kill shelter somewhere else. They see it as relegating the dirty work to someone else to maintain the no-kill shelters image.
Our animals at the shelter are better cared for than many pets. They have AC, constant water and good food. They get out for frequent walks with volunteers and get time to play and socialize every day in the play yards. And they are loved. Not every person loves every dog, but there is not one dog that has no one to give it extra attention and treats. And we make it a point to keep the shelter as clean as possible.
I can not speak for other no kill organizations, but we have a very close relationship with animal control, our "kill" organization. We respect what those men do and in fact get all of our animals from there. Without them, we would cease to exist. (Hopefully one day that will be true). Yes, no kill sheters can not always save or provide for every animal. But we do save more than 1,000 a year from death and that is a good start.

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black roses 19
Xboxing Day


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Sorry if I'm backtracking a little here, but I just got this today:

quote:
7 Things You Didn't Know About PETA


1) PETA president and co-founder Ingrid Newkirk has described her group’s overall goal as “total animal liberation.” This means no meat, no milk, no zoos, no circuses, no wool, no leather, no hunting, no fishing, and no pets (not even seeing-eye dogs). PETA is also against all medical research that requires the use of animals.
2) Despite its constant moralizing about the “unethical” treatment of animals by restaurant owners, grocers, farmers, scientists, anglers, and countless other Americans, PETA has killed over 10,000 dogs and cats at its Norfolk, Virginia headquarters. During 2003, PETA put to death over 85 percent of the animals it collected from members of the public.

3) PETA has given tens of thousands of dollars to convicted arsonists and other violent criminals. This includes a 2001 donation of $1,500 to the North American Earth Liberation Front (ELF), an FBI-certified “domestic terrorist” group responsible for dozens of firebombs and death threats. During the 1990s, PETA paid $70,200 to an Animal Liberation Front (ALF) activist convicted of burning down a Michigan State University research laboratory. In his sentencing recommendation, a federal prosecutor implicated PETA president Ingrid Newkirk in that crime. And PETA vegetarian campaign coordinator Bruce Friedrich told an animal rights convention in 2001 that “blowing stuff up and smashing windows” is “a great way to bring about animal liberation.”

4) PETA activists regularly target children as young as six years old with anti-meat and anti-milk propaganda, often waiting outside their schools to intercept them as they walk to and from class-without notifying parents. One piece of kid-targeted PETA literature tells small children: “Your Mommy Kills Animals!” PETA brags that its messages reach over 2 million children every year, including thousands reached by e-mail without the permission of their parents. One PETA vice president told the Fox News Channel’s audience: “Our campaigns are always geared towards children, and they always will be.”

5) PETA has used a related organization, the PETA Foundation, to fund the misnamed Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM), a deceptive animal rights group that promotes itself as an unbiased source of medical and nutritional information. PCRM's president also serves as president of the PETA Foundation.

6) PETA runs campaigns seemingly calculated to offend religious believers. One entire PETA website is devoted to the claim-despite ample evidence to the contrary-that Jesus Christ was a vegetarian. PETA holds protests at houses of worship, even suing one church that tried to protect its members from Sunday-morning harassment. Its billboards taunt Christians with the message that hogs “died for their sins.” PETA insists, contrary to centuries of rabbinical teaching, that the Jewish ritual of kosher slaughter shouldn't be allowed. And its infamous “Holocaust on Your Plate” campaign crassly compares the Jewish victims of Nazi genocide with farm animals.

7) PETA has repeatedly attacked research foundations like the March of Dimes, the Pediatric AIDS Foundation, and the American Cancer Society, because they support animal-based research that might uncover cures for birth defects and life-threatening diseases. PETA president Ingrid Newkirk has said that “even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we would be against it.”

This seemed a little extreme to me. I was hoping to find some real cites on some of this stuff in order to refute/support the case.

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"I find them to be in contradiction of the basic principles of YOUR MOM!!!" -We've Got Mail

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LemonLimeade
Deck the Malls


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Doesn't anyone find "no-kill" shelters to be often a form of cruelty? From what I've seen, experienced and read, I don't see how it is preferable to a shelter that will confine animals for a limited time. There was an excellent documentary on HBO that presented what seemed to me to be a very balanced view on shelters. I can't remember now but I think it had the word "Cell" in the title. It focused on the head of a shelter, who was herself a very dedicated animal lover (in fact, her life companions are dogs) and she runs a wonderful shelter. She discussed the cruelty of confining animals for long periods of time, and she makes the animals in her shelter much more comfortable and happy by giving them old furniture. You'd see dogs who were pacing around practically frothing at the mouth and very angry who became so very happy once they had a recliner in their pens. She was extremely adept at assessing placeable and not-really-placeable animals, and took great pains to match the placeable ones with homes that suited their individual needs and temperaments. When one of her staff disagreed because she really liked a certain dog and didn't want him euthanized, she said basically, fine, we'll give him some time and do more assessment and hopefully you'll be right...but I really don't think you are. They really did try.

When it did come time to euthanize an animal (rather than keeping the poor thing confined and without companionship for his lifespan) she'd take him out to McDonald's and serve him up a last meal that he really seemed to enjoy. It was sad, and she knew it was sad, but she found it much sadder to give them a miserable life that might drag on for years, getting worse. (She had also worked at no-kill shelters.)

Our own experiences have not been good. We spent thousands of dollars trying to help a cat that we adopted from a no-kill after it had been there for 8 months (out of 12) and not only was she left with permanent problems from an ear-mite infection left unchecked for a long time (along with other health problems that they simply could not pinpoint or treat), she just could not adapt to life in a home, or with people. We really tried. Now naturally, I figure a "good" no-kill will take better care of health problems, but that doesn't change what being confined in a cage most of the time from kittenhood does to an animal. It was a very sad thing, and it seems to me that there are better alternatives. Yes, I think it would be better to have euthanized her at some point and made room for another kitten who might have had a chance at a happy life still. She just wasn't going to have it, no matter how hard her people tried.

I love the work Cesar Milan does, but I find it hard to believe there is enough ranchland for *all* the unwanted dogs to end up in a place like that, too.

Well, agree or disagree, my donation money goes to shelters that do euthanize, and when I go to adopt again it will be from one of those. We have a very good one a couple towns over that I'll go to when it's time again.

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Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.

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Lonely Mountain
Jingle All the Layaway


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I have no problem with shelters that euthanize. I do have a problem with a company that says all shelters, no-kill or euthanize, are evil and then proceeds to euthanize most of their "rescued" animals.

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"Tis too much proved that with devotion's visage and pious action we do sugar o'er the devil himself." - Hamlet

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LemonLimeade
Deck the Malls


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No doubt, I agree wholly there. Not that I needed another reason to loathe PETA [Wink]

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Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by HSSenior:
Actually, the reason I brought up the drought bit was because ThistleS said that she found killing for food when there are other options is unethical. The thing is, we're herbivores, but like you all said: choosing not to eat meat is a personal choice

A drought that for some reason killed all the plants but permitted the animals to live ( [Confused] ) would obviously mean that you did not have another option besides killing for food.

I don't have a problem with other people choosing a different ethic from mine. As I said, I don't go around telling meat eaters why they are such unethical bastards. If asked, I will explain why I think eating meat is unethical.

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Officially Heartless

Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ULTRAGLORIA
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker:
quote:
Originally posted by Lonely Mountain:
quote:
Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
ULTRA "Attempting to channel PETA." GOTHA

Are you serious with this post or just playing devil's advocate?
Did you note Ultragotha's signature to that post? I think it answers your question.

Seaboe

Thanks Seaboe. I don't know how I could have been more obvious.

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A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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ULTRAGLORIA
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by HSSenior:
The thing is, we're herbivores, but like you all said: choosing not to eat meat is a personal choice

Homo Sapiens are not herbivors. We are omnivors. We evolved eating both plants and meat.

Removing meat from one's diet is a personal choice I have no quarrel with. Go for it.

But doing so because eating meat is "unnatural" is not correct. There are alot of species that are herbivors. We aren't one of them.

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A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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tootiredtocare
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by black roses 19:
Sorry if I'm backtracking a little here, but I just got this today:

quote:
7 Things You Didn't Know About PETA


1) PETA president and co-founder Ingrid Newkirk has described her group’s overall goal as “total animal liberation.” This means no meat, no milk, no zoos, no circuses, no wool, no leather, no hunting, no fishing, and no pets (not even seeing-eye dogs). PETA is also against all medical research that requires the use of animals.
2) Despite its constant moralizing about the “unethical” treatment of animals by restaurant owners, grocers, farmers, scientists, anglers, and countless other Americans, PETA has killed over 10,000 dogs and cats at its Norfolk, Virginia headquarters. During 2003, PETA put to death over 85 percent of the animals it collected from members of the public.

3) PETA has given tens of thousands of dollars to convicted arsonists and other violent criminals. This includes a 2001 donation of $1,500 to the North American Earth Liberation Front (ELF), an FBI-certified “domestic terrorist” group responsible for dozens of firebombs and death threats. During the 1990s, PETA paid $70,200 to an Animal Liberation Front (ALF) activist convicted of burning down a Michigan State University research laboratory. In his sentencing recommendation, a federal prosecutor implicated PETA president Ingrid Newkirk in that crime. And PETA vegetarian campaign coordinator Bruce Friedrich told an animal rights convention in 2001 that “blowing stuff up and smashing windows” is “a great way to bring about animal liberation.”

4) PETA activists regularly target children as young as six years old with anti-meat and anti-milk propaganda, often waiting outside their schools to intercept them as they walk to and from class-without notifying parents. One piece of kid-targeted PETA literature tells small children: “Your Mommy Kills Animals!” PETA brags that its messages reach over 2 million children every year, including thousands reached by e-mail without the permission of their parents. One PETA vice president told the Fox News Channel’s audience: “Our campaigns are always geared towards children, and they always will be.”

5) PETA has used a related organization, the PETA Foundation, to fund the misnamed Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM), a deceptive animal rights group that promotes itself as an unbiased source of medical and nutritional information. PCRM's president also serves as president of the PETA Foundation.

6) PETA runs campaigns seemingly calculated to offend religious believers. One entire PETA website is devoted to the claim-despite ample evidence to the contrary-that Jesus Christ was a vegetarian. PETA holds protests at houses of worship, even suing one church that tried to protect its members from Sunday-morning harassment. Its billboards taunt Christians with the message that hogs “died for their sins.” PETA insists, contrary to centuries of rabbinical teaching, that the Jewish ritual of kosher slaughter shouldn't be allowed. And its infamous “Holocaust on Your Plate” campaign crassly compares the Jewish victims of Nazi genocide with farm animals.

7) PETA has repeatedly attacked research foundations like the March of Dimes, the Pediatric AIDS Foundation, and the American Cancer Society, because they support animal-based research that might uncover cures for birth defects and life-threatening diseases. PETA president Ingrid Newkirk has said that “even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we would be against it.”

This seemed a little extreme to me. I was hoping to find some real cites on some of this stuff in order to refute/support the case.
All seven do have documentation to support the allegations including public statements by current and ex PETA members. A lot of the people in PETA don't really know anything about how the organziation works. A lot of other animal rights organizations have a firm dislike for PETA. Penn and Teller's Bullshit did a show on PETA you should watch it.
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The Rubber Chicken
The First USA Noel


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quote:
There seemed to be only two sides presented in the program - nutso PETA extremists who go around bombing people and don't want animals to be utilized in any way, even as pets, and "I'll eat meat if I WANTA!!! Because PETA IS STOOPID and animals are STOOPID" beligerance that kind of came across in the program. Sort of turned me off.

Noplace did I find my own view represented - that using animals and eating animals would not be cruel at all if it was just done HUMANELY. (now, as far as sustainable, there's definitely a point to the not enough acreage for every human to eat beef angle. Can't argue with that.) Meat production and processing is not done humanely at all right now - it COULD be done humanely - and there's no reason it shouldn't be done humanely.

In fairness, Penn & Teller's show was not about being vegetarians, or even animals rights activists in general. The show was entitled PETA and was primarily about PETA. They did stray into a few other fringe groups like ALF, but that was also mainly to highlight the alleged connection between ALF members and PETA. They did interview a couple of more reasonable animal rights folks, including one ex-PETA member who said he agreed with their philosophy, but not with their tactics, and another woman who (if memory serves me correctly) belonged to another animal rights group, but said that PETA was the antithesis of everything the animal rights movement stood for.

Their argument against PETA wasn't perfect. Yeah, they tend to bluster, and use a lot of sarcasm. But as far as your point about your view not being represented -- I think your specific view wasn't represented in the show because the show wasn't arguing against people advocating more humane treatment of animals. The show was arguing against groups that use violence, and call for "total animal liberation."

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Visit my blog, Websurdity... the Weird, the Bizarre, the Silly, the Absurd.

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tootiredtocare
Deck the Malls


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Remember the Penn and Teller show uses a lot of humor and is very blunt. They even admitted they have no idea why the wingnuts come onto the show knowing they will get shotdown and made a fool of.

PETA does have a problem with it's tactics such as calling for animals to be freed from scientific research. Animals that are often infected with diseases that the research is trying to combat because these diseases often occur in these animals as well as people.

Add in no fur crap when most people that wear fur live in cold climates where the artifical clothes don't do a good job at keeping the cold out. Tell an Eskimo he cannot wear fur and he will slam your head against an ice floe.

They were concentrating on the leaders of PETA and other things people don't know about PETA. Lots of the PETA members don't know about the no medical research position or that PETA puts most of the animals it gets to death while opposing animal shelters that do the same or refuse to put animals to sleep.

They even took on raw food nuts for their stupid statements. Listen carefully to what Penn and Teller say. They said animals should be treated humanely they dislike the animal liberation crap or the nasty stuff PETA has done.

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
quote:
Originally posted by HSSenior:
The thing is, we're herbivores, but like you all said: choosing not to eat meat is a personal choice

Homo Sapiens are not herbivors. We are omnivors. We evolved eating both plants and meat.

Removing meat from one's diet is a personal choice I have no quarrel with. Go for it.

But doing so because eating meat is "unnatural" is not correct. There are alot of species that are herbivors. We aren't one of them.

Doh! thanks, I didn't even notice my crazy word mix em up..

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"High-Five!" - Borat

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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lookin on wikipedia: it says PETA only puts animals to sleep that are sick and unwell or ones that have been in cages for long periods of time. However, they apparently put rabbits to sleep once because they couldn't "care for them all"

I wouldn't mind PETA if they weren't so radical in their activism.. Some of my very favorite people: David Cross, Amy Sedaris, and Moby have done commercials and supported them. Well, Amy and David have done ads for em and Moby supports em, but they don't seem as extreme as PETA is made out to be.

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"High-Five!" - Borat

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tootiredtocare
Deck the Malls


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That is what PETA says when confronted with what they claim is the evil that animal shelters do. The thing is the sheer number they put to sleep. They don't seem concerned at all with having them taking care of. PETA throws shit fits about shelters putting sick animals to sleep or animals that couldn't be cared for but when PETA does it is apparently okay.
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LemonLimeade
Deck the Malls


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If I remember correctly, and this is from the Penn and Teller show, the PETA activists were against shelters *altogether.* It was a crazy position to take, but they were out there protesting the very existence of shelters, sure enough. Which just makes no sense. And is extremist. And is hypocritical.

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Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.

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emmastarr
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Good old hypocrisy. Le sigh. There is nothing to believe in anymore, except cake.
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MacLloyd
God Rest Ye Merry Merchants


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Just to insert a little levity:

Carrot Juice Is Murder

a great little song from The Arrogant Worms.

Mac"need more veggies in my diet"Lloyd

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"May you make the Yuletide pay!"

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