posted
Comment: This is one I've heard about but never confirmed, even as a student at BYU. Here it is: BYU students go to Vegas for the weekend, get married, have sex, then get their marriage annulled and return to school. This supposedly avoids complications with BYU's Mormon standards and the school's honor code, both of which require abstinence before marriage, because the students were legally married. I've done a bit of searching but I can only find anecdotal evidence that this occurs. (Things like, "My brother is a Mormon bishop and he heard about this.")
Posts: 36029 | From: Admin | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
ComicBookGeek
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales
posted
I've always heard the marriage can't be annulled if it's been consumated unless there is significant reason (abuse, infidelity, etc)
posted
don't you think they are sneaking off to have sex anyway, marriage or not? How would BYU officials know unless one of the two people told then?
it just seems like a lot of work to get married, then get it annuled. I thought you had to be drunk or something to warrant an annulment.
Posts: 122 | From: Minneapolis/London | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
The flaw there is that civil marriage, to the LDS Church, doesn't really mean a whole lot anyway... unless your marriage is sealed in the Temple, it's civilly binding, but about as spiritually meaningful to them as a parking ticket. So, in addition to being highly implausible, this "loophole" isn't even consistent with LDS doctrine.
-------------------- High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler Posts: 3402 | From: New Bern, NC | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
What khadijah said. If they can sneak off to go to Las Vegas, why bother with the faux marriage? Why not just have sex in secrecy and come back with no one being any the wiser?
-------------------- "You can't play Electro-magnetic Golf according to the rules of Centrifugal Bumble Puppy." -Mustapha Mond, "Brave New World" Posts: 679 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DesertRat: The flaw there is that civil marriage, to the LDS Church, doesn't really mean a whole lot anyway... unless your marriage is sealed in the Temple, it's civilly binding, but about as spiritually meaningful to them as a parking ticket. So, in addition to being highly implausible, this "loophole" isn't even consistent with LDS doctrine.
Absolutely untrue.
[ETA: A legal marriage is recognized as a marriage like all other marriages in the LDS church. There is an additional sacrament of temple sealing which is done as a requirement for the highest level of salvation, but the LDS church absolutely does recognize civil marriages.]
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
My mother was married in an LDS church to her Catholic husband by an LDS Bishop. It's not a temple marriage.. but its a marriage that is recognised (obviously) by the church.
I have a feeling this is just another whack at the LDS and thier high moral code of conduct.
Yes people can wait till they are married to ahve intercourse.. It's not necesary and i am sure it doesn't happen 75% of the time.. but it does happen.
Posts: 62 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Artemis: What khadijah said. If they can sneak off to go to Las Vegas, why bother with the faux marriage? Why not just have sex in secrecy and come back with no one being any the wiser?
Exactly, the cost of a cheap hotel room a couple of hours away from school is waaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper than a trip to vegas.
I aslo happen to know that annulments arent guarenteed anyway. They only allow them under extreme circumstances.
-------------------- W.W.F.S.M.D? But this image of Bush as some sort of Snidely Whiplash tying the fair maiden to the railroad tracks is beyond the pale. - Joe Bentley Posts: 2311 | From: Minnnesota | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
Technicall true, but not always practically so. I admit my frame of reference is purely based on personal experience, but in the two wards to which I belonged, the bishopric of each took a very intolerant and critical view of marriages which were not sealed in the temple... these guys were both on the same page, and emphasized that a marriage bound only by civil law ended as soon as we died. Only temple weddings were "forever," everything else was just a waste of time.
(They are also, unsurprisingly, extremely intolerant of marrying outside the faith, to the point where an acquaintance of mine was pretty fiercely ostracized.)
Again, personal experience only... your mileage may (and hopefully does) vary.
-------------------- High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler Posts: 3402 | From: New Bern, NC | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Those bishops were definitely off the reservation, DR. Too much power in the hands of unprofessionals is one of the reasons why I left the church.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
That, and one day it occured to me that none of the doctrine made a lick of sense.
-------------------- High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler Posts: 3402 | From: New Bern, NC | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
What's the official feeling on civil marriages, then?
I have an LDS friend who was married in her church, and from what I heard they were supportive of her.
-------------------- "It's a perfect system...unless it screws up." -Biology Professor Posts: 495 | From: Orange County, CA | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I can only echo what the "party line" is as AnglRdr has posted. It is a shame that some in the LDS faith (BTW can apply to any faith) confuse their own views with gospel doctrine. It is not in keeping with anything taught by the LDS church to ostracize anyone because they aren't married in the temple. But I'm afraid that won't always prevent horrible treatment by some who want to feel morally superior.
As to the BYU "sex parties" the only reasoning I can see is a percieved "loophole" in the "rules". "But we were leagally married so it doesn't count". Sounds like an UL to me, and not a very imaginative one at that.
Mnot - God save us from the church ladies - r2
-------------------- Infinite goodness is creating a being you know, in advance, is going to complain. Captain Billy Cutshaw Posts: 582 | From: Germany | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm LDS and have never heard of any such thing as the rumors about the Vegas weddings. Sounds like those Muslim temporary or concubinage marriages that are popular or allowed in some countries, but the LDS church would never allow such a thing.
I'm born and raised in California, and went to University of California, not BYU, so am not familiar - by choice - with all aspects of Utah Mormon culture, or especially BYU Mormon culture, which I tend to eschew. Sounds fishy to me. Could happen, but not likely. It's safe to assume such a dishonest intent would be frowned upon by the church as much or more than fornication would be, so what would be the point? That's a lot of trouble to go to just to get your rocks off. And you'd have to be pretty dishonest at heart to think you were getting away with anything.
Would be a lot easier just to masturbate, or screw your significant other, and face the consequences, if you confessed to clergy, than to make a mockery of marriage (funny how straights have historically done that more than gays have). I'm sure the notion of such sham marriages would piss off the church even more than fornication does, for which it tends to be quite forgiving in many circumstances. I'm no authority, but I'm an elder, I've been a missionary, been to the temple, been the membership clerk of my ward (congregation/parish), and have a lot of knowledge as a "lifer." Anyone foolish enough to think there is some loophole such as a weekend marriage in Vegas should try it and see what happens.
Officially, any heterosexual marriage which is legally recognized is recognized by the church, although temple marriage is the goal the church has for all its members. As a libertarian, I'm fine with gay marriage, too, and think the state should stay out of the marriage business, but I don't expect the LDS church to approve anytime soon! And this supposed loophole? No way.
Five years after I served a mission in Colorado, I married a non-LDS woman. We were married by my bishop, but if we had been married by a county judge or commissioner, or the clergy of another faith, it would have been as valid to the LDS church as it was to the state of California and County of Santa Cruz, as long as we did everything legally, and filed the right papers. My parents eloped from Ogden, Utah, and were married by a justice of the peace in Malad, Idaho, but later "sealed" in the Salt Lake Temple. But the marriage was valid to the church from the time they made the contract (performed their wedding vows) with the government-appointed official.
As libertarians, my wife and I did resent having to get a "license" from the government, implying that permission to marry could be denied, as it used to be in the case of intended "inter-racial" marriages. Seems to me that it was a contract between the two of us, and that I paid homage to the church by having my bishop perform the ceremony in front of our families, but to us it wasn't any of the government's business.
But in any case, it was real, to us, to the church (officially, and to the members of my ward, and to our families), and to the state. Had we eloped to Reno or Las Vegas and been married by an Elvis impersonator, it would have been as valid of a marriage to the church (although the circumstances perhaps questionable), and unless we were drunk or never consumated the marriage for some reason (or various other legal exceptions), I see no way the state would annul it, or the LDS church overlook it. If someone just wants sex for the weekend, they need to find a different church. The Mormon church is quite conservative about such things!
However, Mormons are surprisingly liberal about other things. When my wife and I divorced after twelve years, there were no negative repercussions whatsoever (although there definitely would have been if I had been guilty of adultery or abuse), as there would be to Catholics or members of some other Christian churches, and not just because we were not married in the temple or my ex was not LDS. I am free to remarry, including in the temple, when and if I find another willing wife and am deemed worthy to enter the temple. But no funny stuff, like this rumored Vegas loophole.
This alleged Vegas wedding scam by BYU students definitely sounds like an urban legend to me; BYU is the source of many Mormon ULs. Some may indeed elope to Nevada, and I know many who have (as Paul said, it is better to marry than to "burn"), but not for "temporary" marriages (that is, more temporary than other civil or church marriages).
-------------------- Only when we remake ourselves can we remake the world. - Outer Limits (2001) Posts: 559 | From: Santa Cruz, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
My husband went to BYU, and has told me this story. I'm not sure if he claims to actually know someone who has done it, or if he was just repeating something he had heard.
In any case, we both agreed that it was a pretty dumb way to get laid.
-------------------- "He feeds the sparrows of the field, but He doesn't sit there and cram worms into their mouths." -- Mouse Posts: 396 | From: Pasadena, CA | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
