posted
I've heard claims that just about any given Native American run casino is run by a fake or made up tribe that had no historical validity. Sometimes is a claim about a specific tribe, other times its a more openly vague "I'm sure I heard one of them was invented".
Has anyone else heard this said about casino running tribes, and/or have any info on whether its a fair accusation in any cases?
Posts: 96 | From: Attleboro, MA | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Kahuna Burger: I've heard claims that just about any given Native American run casino is run by a fake or made up tribe that had no historical validity. Sometimes is a claim about a specific tribe, other times its a more openly vague "I'm sure I heard one of them was invented".
Has anyone else heard this said about casino running tribes, and/or have any info on whether its a fair accusation in any cases?
-------------------- Let's drink to the causes in your life: Your family, your friends, the union, your wife. Posts: 11325 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Since over 200 tribes have casinos, that's quite a claim.
Becoming recognized as a tribe is not easy. It's a process involving proving the genealogy of your members, your connection to a group that had a treaty with the US, and proving you were a cohesive political unit since at least before 1900.
The process takes on average at least 20 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it get slower all the time. Groups widely recognized as Native by other tribes, such as the Lumbee, have waited as long as more than 80 years in some cases.
Your friend was probably thinking of the case of the Pequot and the book Without Reservation by Jeff Benedict.
It's filled with errors and was panned by scholars. Benedict has since apologized, but that doesn't stop bigots and anti gaming groups from quoting it.
These claims are a pretty common version of the newer form of anti Indian hatred springing up in the past 20 years, one which shares a lot in common with longstanding anti Semitism.
1. The group demonized is said to be greedy, secretive, and deceptive by nature.
2. Any wealthy acquired is assumed to be illegetimate, from deception, fraud, scheming, and otherwise abusing allegedly more moral white people, rather than from business smarts. (Yes, I know many consider Jews "white". But anti Semites generally don't.)
These stereotypes are all over. Rob Schmidt over at Blue Corn estimates more than half of the stereotypes he finds have to do with white resentment, jealousy, and envy over Native success at gaming. http://www.bluecorncomics.com/stertype.htm
A good book on the topic is Elizabeth Cook Lynn's Anti Indianism in Modern America.
Having said all that, there is a tremendous problem with fake tribes run by white New Age cult leaders, groups like the Deer Tribe or Rainbow Tribe. It's part of why there are activist sites like this one:
There are also hundreds of fake tribes that are really closer to heritage groups or clubs, made up mostly of people who have (or believe they have or even wish they had) distant Native ancestry. Most are harmless, even if they don't know as much about the heritage as they pretend. But some of their leaders, like Lola Scholl or the self proclaimed "Cherokee Emperor of the Red Nation", are sharks trying to squeeze every penny out of them in roll closing scams.
Posts: 69 | From: Texas | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by educatedindian: Since over 200 tribes have casinos, that's quite a claim.
Indeed, I should have been wordier to express that for any casino I have heard discussed, I have heard the vague rumor that it is not run by a "real" tribe, rather than that every casino in the US has come up in conversation.
edit to add : Thanks for the additional info on tribes.
Posts: 96 | From: Attleboro, MA | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
It's funny, my parents went to an Indian Casino a couple of monthes back and said they didn't see a single Indian the whole time they were there.
Posts: 3 | From: Brisbane, Australia | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Shade: It's funny, my parents went to an Indian Casino a couple of monthes back and said they didn't see a single Indian the whole time they were there.
By Indian are you talking feathers and deerskin? Your parents do know they don't dress that way anymore...right?
All of the casinos I have been to that are owned by native americans are on real tribal land, and run by real native americans.
-------------------- "My Very Educated Mother Just Said Uh-oh! No...Pluto..."~ Steven Colbert Posts: 3256 | From: Somewhere in Ohio | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Although the casino may be owned by a tribe, the tribe may have contracted with an outside organization to do the day to day management. Many tribes, as part of negotiations with assorted government agencies, or just as a matter of goodwill, agree to hire local workers whenever possible.
And, yes, many Indians who are enrolled members of recognized tribes do not look like "Indians." Not all Indians have dark skin and black hair these days, much less dress up every day in traditional costumes. As a random example, take a look at this photo of the tribal council of the Pecahnga Band of Luseño INdians--a major casino tribe).
Edited because the first photo I chose did not represent a recognized tribe
-------------------- The plural of "anecdote" is not "data." Posts: 4255 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
According to many sources - all of them suspect - the largest Sioux reservation in northern Wisconsin has ZERO full-blooded tribe members there. This has been said since somewhere around 1986-ish.
So it COULD be the attitude of outsiders that if you aren't full-blooded, you aren't "real", therefore there shouldn't be a "Tribe".
But then, the area I grew up in is VERY negative against the Indians. The politics over the past 40 years, on top of the tribal government, has spoiled relations very, VERY badly.
-------------------- Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...
Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it. Posts: 5622 | From: Jax, Florida | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
In order to be 'legally' American Indian, you have to document you are 1/16th Indian. My mom is 1/16th, but you'd never know it. Her sister's even (naturally) blonde. My grandmother did have jet black hair and high cheekbones, but then that could be the Swiss blood, too.
-------------------- "My neighbor asked why anyone would need a car that can go 190 mph. If the answer isn't obvious, and explaination won't help." - Csabe Csere Posts: 1225 | From: Wichita, Kansas | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Malruhn: According to many sources - all of them suspect - the largest Sioux reservation in northern Wisconsin has ZERO full-blooded tribe members there. This has been said since somewhere around 1986-ish.
So it COULD be the attitude of outsiders that if you aren't full-blooded, you aren't "real", therefore there shouldn't be a "Tribe".
But then, the area I grew up in is VERY negative against the Indians. The politics over the past 40 years, on top of the tribal government, has spoiled relations very, VERY badly.
I'm fairly certain that there are no Sioux reservations, nor tribes, in Wisconsin. At least not any that are recognized by the United States.
Wisconsin has Chippewa (or Ojibwe), Potawatomi, Menominee, Ho-Chunk, Oneida, and Mohican tribes and reservations.
And I, for one, welcome their casinos and wish them the best of luck in taking the money of Northern Wisconsinites and Illinois tourists.
-------------------- "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005
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posted
When I lived in western NY, there were several Indian casinos in the area that used to advertise on the local media, and all of them were owned by recognizable Indian tribes that have long unbroken histories such as the Seneca or Oneida nations.
Nick
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posted
You know, every single one of those Lusenos, except Luker and Magee, "look Indian" to me, and would to most other NDNs.
Hollywood has played such a strong role in definign what Indians look like to non-Natives, you get these kinds of questions. I actually get people staring at me on airplanes, like I don't belong there.
I swear, I can actually see the words forming on their lips sometimes, "Shouldn't he be on a horse?"
Think I'm joking? Sadly, no. Like I point out to my students all the time, many of you probably pass NDNs on the street all the time, you just don't realize it.
The places with the most NDNs in the US? New York LA Minneapolis Phoenix Each with around 50,000 NDNs.
Worldwide, where you'd find the most NDNs: Mexico City and Lima each have over a million NDNs.
Other people you didn't know were NDN: Benjamin Bratt (Quechua) Jimi Hendrix (Cherokee) Red Foxx (Seminole) James Herrington, Astronaut (Chickasaw)
Each tribe has its own requirements for membership. Some use blood quantum ranging from one half to 1/32. Some, more traditionally, rely on descent from the mother's side, BQ unimportant. Others say any descent at all.
But as to what individual NDNs consider to define NDN-ness, that's more a matter of culture and living like an NDN (having the experiences common to Natives) than these old scientific racist notions of "blood", or stereotypes about what NDNs look like. At the same time, NDNs talk about NDN Radar, much like gays have Gay-Dar, being able to usually instantly spot who is NDN and who isn't. Even when they don't physically look like it, body language and rez (reservation) accents usually make them fairly easy to spot.
From the fed govt POV, though, 1/4 BQ from a single tribe makes you an NDN.
posted
"Becoming recognized as a tribe is not easy. It's a process involving proving the genealogy of your members, your connection to a group that had a treaty with the US, and proving you were a cohesive political unit since at least before 1900."
OK, many UK citizens can prove their native genealogy back for 100s of years, we've had several treaties with the US Govt, we've been a cohesive political unit since 1066 and you beat us in a war and took land off us that was rightfully ours. By these measures we must count as Indians and I want the right to open a casino in the US, or at least an online gaming site like the UK ones the US Gov't has just made illegal!
-------------------- Churchill drank, smoked and was a successful amateur painter. Hitler was a teetotal, vegetarian, animal loving failed professional painter. Draw your own conclusions! Posts: 34 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Shade: It's funny, my parents went to an Indian Casino a couple of monthes back and said they didn't see a single Indian the whole time they were there.
And people looking at me and some of my family would conclude the same thing.
Actually, in some areas, casinos provide lots of employment for both Natives and nonNatives.
And Methuseleh spanked me but there are no Lakota/Dakota/Nakota tribes left in Wisconsin to own a casino. Haven't been there since the late 1700s; settlement pressure from the east and all that.
-------------------- There are people who drive really nice cars who feel that [those] cars won't be as special if other people drive them too. Where I come from, we call those people "selfish self-satisfied gits." -Chloe Posts: 6995 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I'm sorry, EducatedIndian, could you tell me what NDN stands for? I understand it in context but I've never seen that abbreviation before. Google and Wikipedia are no help.
-------------------- Officially Heartless Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Gydna: OK, many UK citizens can prove their native genealogy back for 100s of years, we've had several treaties with the US Govt, we've been a cohesive political unit since 1066 and you beat us in a war and took land off us that was rightfully ours. By these measures we must count as Indians and I want the right to open a casino in the US, or at least an online gaming site like the UK ones the US Gov't has just made illegal! [/QB]
You think British have geneaology that can prove they're American Indians?
Freaking unbelievable! Is your name Archie Belaney too?
http://www.virtualsk.com/current_issue/grey_owl.html "Born in 1888, Archie’s metamorphosis from middle-class Englishman to buckskin-clad Indian naturalist actually began during his childhood in Hastings, Sussex, where he escaped the stern tutelage of the two aunts who raised him by collecting a menagerie and pretending to be a "Red Indian."
Because I don't see how else you could claim any part of the Americas was ever "rightfully yours."
Tell you what, you get a casino. But first the British go through what Natives did.
98% of you die, then have your killers say God told us to and apologists for genocide blame everything on disease. Lose 90% of your land base. Have the remaining 10% fractionated and checkerboarded with conflicting claims. Forcibly try to convert all of you to another faith. End your present lifestyle in favor of another assumed to be superior. Ban your language and beat your kids if they try to speak it, again replacing it with a more civilized tongue.
Then after 500 years of this, you can have a casino and deal with the new stereotypes that have an uncanny resemblance to the old ones about greedy controlling Jews.
A real bargain.
Posts: 69 | From: Texas | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Shortly after I moved to the Seattle area in 1995, someone wrote a letter to the editor complaining about the fact that tribal stores were allowed to sell fireworks that nobody else in WA state could legally sell. He said that it was wrong because "the same laws should apply to Indians that apply to everyone else."
You know, if we'd tried that a few hundred years ago. . .
-------------------- How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mistletoey Chloe: I think it's "Indian."
That had occured to me but for some reason I assumed it had to be an abbreviation. If it is Indian, why spell it that way?
-------------------- Officially Heartless Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mistletoey Chloe: I think it's "Indian."
That had occured to me but for some reason I assumed it had to be an abbreviation. If it is Indian, why spell it that way?
Perhaps because Native American/First Nations people have nothing to do with India?
-------------------- "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch Posts: 3307 | From: Charleston, WV | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Uh, so why why use an abbreviation that still sounds like Indian?
-------------------- Officially Heartless Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
As I understand it, it's a taking back the word thing. And it distinguishes us from Asians of a similar description. It's also pronounced as it's spelled.
-------------------- There are people who drive really nice cars who feel that [those] cars won't be as special if other people drive them too. Where I come from, we call those people "selfish self-satisfied gits." -Chloe Posts: 6995 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
That makes sense, TGirl. Thanks for not snarking- I guess that answer is kind of obvious but I preferred to have it explained rather than jump to a conclusion.
-------------------- Officially Heartless Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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Indeed, I should have been wordier to express that for any casino I have heard discussed, I have heard the vague rumor that it is not run by a "real" tribe, rather than that every casino in the US has come up in conversation. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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