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Author Topic: Oprah says to tip 10%
Lady Moon Shadows
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by alicia:
i'm going through this problem right now, where i'm trying to just find a DESK JOB, for crying out loud. apparenltly, a whole laundry list of skills are required for sitting on your ass, chewing gum, and rolling your eyes at people all day, which is pretty much all i can say for most of the receptionists i've come across (most of whom make over 10 dollars an hour) and yet- even with my college education, and 7 years of customer service experience, i can't seem to find a job where i'm not working in a restaurant!

My favorite line to say to potential employers was "Think about it--how am I supposed to get expierence if no one will hire me to teach it to me?"

Yeah, you get paid 10 bucks an hour to sit on your ass, chewing gum and answering phones... and somehow, that tranlates into "being educated" (or more so than someone waiting tables)...

bullshit...

(not a rant on you, alicia, I'm agreeing with ya, here)

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Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate and wine in hand, body thoroughly used up, and screaming WoW what a ride!

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alicia
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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seriously! i wish i could get a job at the department of human services office, so my job could be "being an asshole to everyone" "chainsmoking outside" and "ignoring people," then maybe people would take me seriously. it's so depressing that the hardest working people in our society are the most screwed financially, sometimes.
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mercurythief
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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What does being entitled to something even mean to you? To me, being entitled to a living wage means that some employer, somewhere, has an obligation to give you a job that pays a living wage. Who is this employer? Where does he or she come from? If such an employer doesn't exist, should the government start forcing business owners to create jobs that might drive them out of business? Such tactics would violate the rights of the business owners. Ultimately, employment is a voluntary contract between equals. You do work in exchange for a wage. Neither party owes the other anything else.

I apologize for implying that you didn't go to college. However, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that many people who don't go to college end up as servers.

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Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by mercurythief:
The system is the way it is because you accept it. It's not the law that's the problem. A simple strike would do just fine. Get the staff together and demand a higher wage. Tell the restaurant owner to raise the prices on the menu, and to put the words 'tipping optional, our servers make a fair wage,' on the bill.

Or, if the boss is anything like my former employers, they'll have no problem firing everyone and hiring a bunch of new people at minimum wage; people who are so desperate for work they'll take anything they can get. Strikes only work if you're not expendable, if you provide a service that is not only desperately needed but that no one else is skilled to do. Unfortunately, because of the large number of people for whom a bad job is better than no job at all, there will always be people willing to work for minimum wage. The employer knows this, so why should he bother raising the wages of people who want to strike? It's easier, and less expensive for him, to keep a minimum staff at minimum wage.

I do not mean to imply that any of the waitstaff here on snopes are unskilled. But take my town for example. There are 50,000 college students living in this area. Jobs in the service industry and delivery driver jobs are in high demand. It's ridiculous to expect to get paid a living wage, because there are several thousand other students looking for work who know a meager paycheck is better than none. When I worked at the vet clinic all I could get was minimum wage, because of the hundreds of vet students who need experience in clinics in order to get into vet school. So many people want these jobs that there was no question of bargaining for higher wages. You're easily replaced by someone who needs a job or the experience.

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"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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Lady Moon Shadows
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I think it is way too much of a stretch to say they "end up as servers" considering most servers are working college students or teachers who need second jobs, etc.

In fact, I'd say the problem no longer lies with serving, but the profession where those employed need to seek out second jobs serving..

Sorry--everyone deserves to make a living wage, period. You won't convince anyone otherwise...

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Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate and wine in hand, body thoroughly used up, and screaming WoW what a ride!

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alicia
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
What does being entitled to something even mean to you? To me, being entitled to a living wage means that some employer, somewhere, has an obligation to give you a job that pays a living wage.
yes, that's EXACTLY what it means. employers are OBLIGATED to pay their employees a LIVING wage. why is that so hard for you to understand? do you want everyone to live on state assistance? is that a better solution? god forbid we can all pay our rent AND eat in the same month.
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Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by mercurythief:
What does being entitled to something even mean to you? To me, being entitled to a living wage means that some employer, somewhere, has an obligation to give you a job that pays a living wage. Who is this employer? Where does he or she come from? If such an employer doesn't exist, should the government start forcing business owners to create jobs that might drive them out of business?

When it costs a full day's pay just to fill up your gas tank, then yes.

And I get the feeling you'd be happy with no minimum wage at all. You do realize that in a household with 2-3 kids and both parents making minimum wage, they probably need to rely on government assistance in order to be healthy and properly provide for their children, right? If you don't support a living wage, then I hope you at least support the government assistance programs most families (and even single folks) would have to depend on.

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"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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Lady Moon Shadows
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Funny thing is, waitstaff will have a hard time being approved for assistance due to the tip factor.

It is a damned if you do situation.

Yes, I sure hope he does support assistance programs--it would be the only way people make any kind of living.

A day's wage for gas... yep, it's coming to that...

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Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate and wine in hand, body thoroughly used up, and screaming WoW what a ride!

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mercurythief
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Who are these employers that can afford to pay for your living wage? Should a store owner hire 3 people and pay them $10/hr as opposed to hiring 6 at $5/hr? If she only hires 3, there are 3 people on the streets. If she hires 6, they're all stuggling, but happy to some sort of income. Besides, with 6 employees, the business will do better and can potentially give raises or create more jobs. Can you honestly say one of these situations is morally superior to the other? It's easy to say that everyone deserves a living wage, but in practice, that's just wishful thinking.
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Lady Moon Shadows
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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i will state again: we all deserve a living wage.

I will also state, again, that I never said the system isn't screwy. The system DOES need to be overhauled so that an employer can hire those 6 people AND pay them a living wage.

But, your attitude is exactly why this system isn't being fixed. You and people like you don't think anyone deserves a living wage. I sure hope you can pay your bills...would hate to think you have to use the system for help.

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Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate and wine in hand, body thoroughly used up, and screaming WoW what a ride!

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mercurythief
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Why do we all deserve a living wage? Your statement isn't rooted in U.S. law. We have a minimum wage, but that can hardly be considered a living wage. Is it rooted in your faith? If so, you can hardly expect others take it as a fact.

What kind of possible overhaul are you thinking of? Where does all this money come from? From the government; from taxes? If the government starts paying more and more for assistence programs, people will start to realize that they don't have to work for a living. When that happens, taxes won't bring in enough revenue to pay for those programs.

You throw around words like overhaul and fix without any meaning behind them. There isn't a magic solution that will solve everyone's problems. I happen to think that the best route for our govenment to take is to get people to work hard and rely on themselves. I support policies that will bring that about.

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Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by mercurythief:
You throw around words like overhaul and fix without any meaning behind them. There isn't a magic solution that will solve everyone's problems. I happen to think that the best route for our govenment to take is to get people to work hard and rely on themselves. I support policies that will bring that about.

You wouldn't happen to be Republican, would you? No matter, that.

"Working hard" and "relying on oneself" works sporadically, and only if you're given breaks. If you're only going to make 6 bucks an hour, say, 50 or 60 hours a week, how do you support a family on that? That's working hard and relying on oneself, but no one will get ahead working slave wages. Then, if you work that much, who's spending time with your family to make sure they don't stray and catch teh sex or teh gay? Sure, you can work your fingers to the bone working low wages, but quality of life goes way down--and what's the point of working that hard if you can't do anything but just barely survive on that money?

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Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

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ChelleGame
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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The fact is that hard work should be fairly recompensed. Under the current system, this is done largely through gratuities. It's a flawed system, but not tipping hurts the person who's doing the hard labor.

The boss can hire a kid who is living with their parents, and is happy with just the wage, skates by, and service suffers. Or, you can tip fairly for good service, and have people who are willing and able to give you that good service, and who actually need the job.

Does everyone deserve a living wage? Yes, with the proviso that they are competent at their jobs. I absolutely think a skilled waitress is just as valuable to society as many a college grad in an office job.

College exists for life-experience, and training, but it's not the sole place to gain these things, and we all know people who peed away any value gained there.

Many of the jobs people disparage involve training, dedication, and hard work -- not to mention many jobs, while undesirable, are necessary to society. Someone really does have to do the dirty work.

The job I have now has me working with highly educated people...who absolutely could not just automatically do what I do. Even after training, I'm sure most of them would be challenged, because new scenarios arise each day.

The truth is that society needs all sorts of people in all sorts of roles, and nobody who works hard should be devalued.

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Michelle

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by mercurythief:
Where else should servers work? I have no idea. Maybe they should go to college or something.

College costs money. Quite a lot of money, actually. If someone isn't working, just how is s/he going to pay for college? And not everyone is suited for college.
quote:
You seem to think people are entitled to a job that pays a living wage. Unfortunately, if they don't have the skills that an employer is willing to pay a good wage for, being 'entitled' to a better job means absolutely nothing.

I never used the word "entitled." I do not think anyone who can who doesn't want to work hard is "entitled" to anything. I do think that anyone who is willing to work hard should be paid a living wage. I think people with more experience and more skills should be paid accordingly. I do not think it is reasonable to pay a widow supporting three kids $2.63 an hour.

You speak as if jobs that pay better than the service minimum are just out there for the asking, which is ignorant IMO. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, regular minimum wage jobs have wait lists.

Four Kitties

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by mercurythief:
Why do we all deserve a living wage? Your statement isn't rooted in U.S. law. We have a minimum wage, but that can hardly be considered a living wage. Is it rooted in your faith? If so, you can hardly expect others take it as a fact.

Why, oh why, do people resort back to this "it isn't in law" or "it isn't in the constitution" when we discuss moral issues of what "should" or "should not" be.

Think of the scene in "A Few Good Men" when Tom Cruise's character points out to the prosecution that the Marine Corps "manual" did not tell the accused where to eat his three daily meals. Neither did the "manual" tell them how to discipline a fellow soldier.

There are a lot of things that don't exist in law, or even the US Constitution. It doesn't mean we should not discuss them.

Not paying people a living wage leads to a lot of hungry, poor, *desperate* people. People who are willing to committ crimes because they have nothing to lose.

Consider the fictional story, also, of Jean Valjean in Les Miserables. He was sentenced to 7 years for breaking a window pane and stealing a loaf of bread. In that day and age, a burglar or thief might as well kill someone in the process. Because they faced the same penalty no matter what they did. Kill someone? Death penalty. Steal a loaf of bread? Same thing.

You can pay someone a living wage. Or you can say to yourself "Are there no work houses? Are there no prisons?"

Morality can exist outside the law.

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"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
Morality can exist outside the law.

I hope so, otherwise I'd be spending my days in the stocks for taking the Lord's name in vain.

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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Lady Moon Shadows
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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As is usual, they all said it better than I could. I will just "hear hear"....

Again, I understand the plural of ancedote is not evidence, but speaking from my own personal expierence, the servers *I* know, bust their asses to make their wages and **earn** their tips.

There have only been a few, very few, instances where we've had poor service. And we tipped as well as spoke, accordingly and properly.

Otherwise, when you have those that **want** to work and show so via the customer service provided to you, as opposed to "needing to work", you should prepare to help pay for those individuals who do so.

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Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate and wine in hand, body thoroughly used up, and screaming WoW what a ride!

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Nion
We Three Blings


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*squeezes head in*

I'll just reiterate, as stated in my ignored post, that three $2 tips in an hour for a waiter/waitress will surpass my hourly wage. Like I said, either I'm overwhelmingly underpaid or this is being blown out of proportion. Anyways . . .

All McDs I've seen have advertised $7 or higher starting wages. Just thought I'd throw that in too.

*ducks and covers*

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It can't rain all the time.

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Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by RelicMan:
*squeezes head in*

I'll just reiterate, as stated in my ignored post, that three $2 tips in an hour for a waiter/waitress will surpass my hourly wage. Like I said, either I'm overwhelmingly underpaid or this is being blown out of proportion. Anyways . . .

All McDs I've seen have advertised $7 or higher starting wages. Just thought I'd throw that in too.

*ducks and covers*

When you take into account how much you really have to do as a good waiter/waitress, 6 bucks/hour is really too little, no matter where you work. I think you're probably grossly underpaid, at least on the living wage level. And why should you determine how much you tip a waiter/waitress by how much you earn? That's not their fault you work a low-paying job when they give you the same good service they give the next guy.

How much you make at McDonalds (or any other job, for that matter) is entirely determined by economic factors in your state, such as cost of living, price of housing, cost of running a business, and so on. Seven bucks an hour may be at the low end of the totem pole in your area.

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Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Nion
We Three Blings


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I knew it! I've been underpaid for years. I was making less than I am now when I was a department MANAGER at an Ames department store. lol

I wasn't trying to be snarky at all. I just get a little fluffed when people making more than me complain about how little they are paid. Then again, who doesn't want more than what they are making? [Wink]

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It can't rain all the time.

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mercurythief
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Could you answer these questions for me?

There is one job opening at my store, and I, as the owner, can afford to pay $6/hr to the worker. I'm not willing to pay any more, because at that point it would be better for me to not hire an additional person.

1. Would it be wrong to hire a high school student at $6/hr?
2. Would it be wrong to hire a single mother of 2 at $6/hr?

As far as I can tell, you would say #1 is ok, because $6/hr is better than a living wage for a student living at home. #2 is not ok, because $6/hr is not a living wage for the mother. If that is correct, wouldn't I then be morally obligated to hire the student, no matter how desparate the mother is for any sort of job?

Would you force me to pay more than $6/hr? I would then be losing money, and I might have to close the store and fire everybody working there.

What is your solution to this problem?

As for me being a Republican, I'm not. If someone wants to be teh gay, that's fine with me.

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Bill
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Bored and Dangerous:
quote:
Originally posted by RelicMan:
*squeezes head in*

I'll just reiterate, as stated in my ignored post, that three $2 tips in an hour for a waiter/waitress will surpass my hourly wage. Like I said, either I'm overwhelmingly underpaid or this is being blown out of proportion. Anyways . . .

All McDs I've seen have advertised $7 or higher starting wages. Just thought I'd throw that in too.

*ducks and covers*

When you take into account how much you really have to do as a good waiter/waitress, 6 bucks/hour is really too little, no matter where you work. I think you're probably grossly underpaid, at least on the living wage level. And why should you determine how much you tip a waiter/waitress by how much you earn? That's not their fault you work a low-paying job when they give you the same good service they give the next guy.
I'll agree that patrons should leave a fair tip, no matter what their circumstances, but I think the customer's circumstances come into play on the higher end. I would hardly expect a customer of limited means to leave a 25% or 50% tip (as some mentioned earlier), but I can see a super-celebrity doing it.

My cousin's son once told me that his mother once got a $50 tip back in the 1970s when that was a substantial sum, but this was obviously someone with more money than he knew what to do with. Maybe the big tips from people who can afford it make up somewhat for the ones who can't dip into their grocery money to do the same.

By the way, I seem to remember a McDonald's in my area advertising for help offering considerably more than $7/hour (in fact, I seem to remember it being about $10).

Thanks.

Bill

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Latiam
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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McDonald's here starts at minimum wage, but has small raises every six months, so in a few years you can be making a few dollars above minimum.

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Good morning Starshine! The Earth says hello.

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Esprise Me
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by mercurythief:
The system is the way it is because you accept it. It's not the law that's the problem. A simple strike would do just fine. Get the staff together and demand a higher wage. Tell the restaurant owner to raise the prices on the menu, and to put the words 'tipping optional, our servers make a fair wage,' on the bill. If the owner doesn't compy, find a new job.

I've got a better idea. Why don't YOU stop patronizing restaurants that don't pay their staff a living wage? It's only fair--most servers need their jobs much more than you need a restaurant dinner, and believe me, a boycott by customers would work much faster than a boycott by servers.

The system is the way it is because you accept it. It's not the law that's the problem. A simple strike would do just fine. Get the customers together and demand a higher wage. Tell the restaurant owner to raise the prices on the menu, and to put the words 'tipping optional, our servers make a fair wage,' on the bill. If the owner doesn't compy, find a new place to eat.

Amazing how little I had to change there. Anywho, feel free to stop contributing to this broken system with your patronage. I doubt the servers will miss your business.

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"If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf

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mercurythief
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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That's not a bad idea, except you're relying on others to fix your situation for you. If you don't like your job, deal with it yourself. Don't rely on me to change my behavior to help you.
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Louise
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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If we're talking about living wage, wouldn't that be difficult to determine due to that person's circumstances? A living wage for a student living with their parents would be different than that for a single mother of 6, for instance.
I'm not saying I don't support living wage, but it would be very difficult to enforce.

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"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

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Louise
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by ChelleGame:
At the restaurant we took my grandmother to the other day, the one where I just said the service was okay, the thing which interested me was that she didn't ask me if I wanted a refill on my (alcoholic) drink, but did refill my husband's Coke.

To the servers, is there some liability associated with asking me this, or was she just remiss? Frankly, I was on the fence about having a second drink...upset tummy...but if she asked, I probably would have, thus adding to her tip.

I think generally there aren't free refills on alcoholic drinks, at least here in Pennsylvania.

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"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

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MacLloyd
God Rest Ye Merry Merchants


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Took me quite a while to read through this thread, and I don't have too much to add, but I wanted to say something because it was a similar thread that prompted me to stop lurking and participate in this finr message board.

Anyway, I worked my way through school working in the restaurant industry. Did it all, bus boy, dishwasher, waiter, cook, manager. Waiting tables was not more miserable than washing the dishes (for me, YMMV). I never worked in a restaurant where the waitstaff was require to share their tips with anyone. It was quite frustrating for me to watch them count up their tips and complain that the "only" made 50 or 60 dollars all the while bitching that they were paid less than the cooks. We only made 5 or 6 bucks an hour (which was better than minimum wage at the time). In every restaurant I worked at, the average waitstaff made more than the average cook, by quite a bit.

That said, I tend to tip big, especially if the service is good, but I hate the idea that it is required. It is not. It is just custom and tradition.

Mac"20 to 40 percent usually"Lloyd

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"May you make the Yuletide pay!"

Posts: 811 | From: Arcadia, CA | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Bettie Page Turner
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by alicia:
snip-apparenltly, a whole laundry list of skills are required for sitting on your ass, chewing gum, and rolling your eyes at people all day, which is pretty much all i can say for most of the receptionists i've come across (most of whom make over 10 dollars an hour)

Just had to poke my head in and comment on this. I agree with many of the restaurant workers (and low wage earners in general) who are saying "I don't get no respect." However, I think we have to look at comments like this one and recognize the fact that it is easy for us (humans) to make broad assumptions about people in a line of work other than ours. "All waitresses do is schlep coffee and screw up our orders." "Geez, how hard is it to check groceries? Get this line moving!" "A trained monkey could be a convenience store clerk." "All receptionists do is sit on their ass and file their nails."

Pot, meet kettle.

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You fail to consider, for such is the tyranny of fashion, that the swan is not a slim animal... -Jincy Kornhauser, Melinda Falling

Posts: 1762 | From: Charleston, West Virginia | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
HollowMan
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
I'm not asking about the etymology of the word "barista", but it is a relatively new term - people were not called "baristas" when they served coffee in a diner back in the 1950's, and being from the home of the definitive Canadian coffee and donut shop (Tim Horton's), I'm well aware that this word wasn't even in general use in the 80's.

Subway uses the term "sandwich artist" to imply that their employees are somewhat more than a mere sandwich *maker*. They are *artists* - their work *is art*, they take pride in it, and it is better in quality than the competition.

It's a marketing ploy, and one I object to.

It can also work the other direction as well. If you're in a menial position, a simple name change may be just the morale boost that one needs to do a better job. I mean really, would you rather be a *sandwich maker* or a *sandwich artist*?

A good personal example is myslef. After finals are over I will start work at the new Whole Foods in Greenville, in the prepared foods department. I definitely think having a title or designation as *Prepared Foods Team Member* is much more preferable than *Cook*.

--------------------
Heisenberg may have slept here.

I got an idea... an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

Posts: 291 | From: Greenville, SC | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
STF
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by HollowMan:
quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
I'm not asking about the etymology of the word "barista", but it is a relatively new term - people were not called "baristas" when they served coffee in a diner back in the 1950's, and being from the home of the definitive Canadian coffee and donut shop (Tim Horton's), I'm well aware that this word wasn't even in general use in the 80's.

Subway uses the term "sandwich artist" to imply that their employees are somewhat more than a mere sandwich *maker*. They are *artists* - their work *is art*, they take pride in it, and it is better in quality than the competition.

It's a marketing ploy, and one I object to.

It can also work the other direction as well. If you're in a menial position, a simple name change may be just the morale boost that one needs to do a better job. I mean really, would you rather be a *sandwich maker* or a *sandwich artist*?

A good personal example is myslef. After finals are over I will start work at the new Whole Foods in Greenville, in the prepared foods department. I definitely think having a title or designation as *Prepared Foods Team Member* is much more preferable than *Cook*.

I don't put much stock into that myself. I know that there's no difference between a sandwich maker and sandwich artist. I don't believe that most Subway employees make more of their job because of that silly title. I can't prove this of course, but I think you're in the minority when it comes to the title playing that big of a part.

I was too small, slow and weak to play football in high school, but I love football. A friend of mine wanted to be a trainer so she asked if I'd help her and be a "manager" well I and everyone else knew that a "manager" was a "waterboy." Having the official designation and my shirt say "Football MGR" didn't change that one bit. It is what it is regardless of what it is called imho.

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STF on MySpace

Posts: 5186 | From: Coweta County, GA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by STF:
quote:
Originally posted by HollowMan:
quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
I'm not asking about the etymology of the word "barista", but it is a relatively new term - people were not called "baristas" when they served coffee in a diner back in the 1950's, and being from the home of the definitive Canadian coffee and donut shop (Tim Horton's), I'm well aware that this word wasn't even in general use in the 80's.

Subway uses the term "sandwich artist" to imply that their employees are somewhat more than a mere sandwich *maker*. They are *artists* - their work *is art*, they take pride in it, and it is better in quality than the competition.

It's a marketing ploy, and one I object to.

It can also work the other direction as well. If you're in a menial position, a simple name change may be just the morale boost that one needs to do a better job. I mean really, would you rather be a *sandwich maker* or a *sandwich artist*?

A good personal example is myslef. After finals are over I will start work at the new Whole Foods in Greenville, in the prepared foods department. I definitely think having a title or designation as *Prepared Foods Team Member* is much more preferable than *Cook*.

I don't put much stock into that myself. I know that there's no difference between a sandwich maker and sandwich artist. I don't believe that most Subway employees make more of their job because of that silly title. I can't prove this of course, but I think you're in the minority when it comes to the title playing that big of a part.

I was too small, slow and weak to play football in high school, but I love football. A friend of mine wanted to be a trainer so she asked if I'd help her and be a "manager" well I and everyone else knew that a "manager" was a "waterboy." Having the official designation and my shirt say "Football MGR" didn't change that one bit. It is what it is regardless of what it is called imho.

Agreed. From my experience, if someone throws out some strange title like Sandwich artist or 'Prepared Foods Team Member', the next question will be, 'so what does that entail'. If you're just making sandwiches nobody will think more of you because you call yourself an artist.

Beach...my title is 9 words long, but I'm just a manager...Life!

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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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HollowMan
Deck the Malls


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Now that I've had a bit of time to think about it Beach, I'm going to give that pont over to you and STF. I think I was really trying to make a comment about the treatment of one's employees and showing that you care, but that really has nothing to do with this discussion.

And incidentally *...Team Member* does carry some additional perks with it that you don't get as a new hire, which means my example probably wasn't the best to begin with.

I definitely agree that if you give yourself your own title, the more words it conatins, the less it means.

Hollow"Future Food Well Being Facillitator"Man

--------------------
Heisenberg may have slept here.

I got an idea... an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by HollowMan:
...And incidentally *...Team Member* does carry some additional perks with it that you don't get as a new hire, which means my example probably wasn't the best to begin with....

And this is where title does make some difference. In many larger companies there are specific meansing attached to terms like Team Member, Supervisor, Manager, Director, etc. In these cases title obviously means something. When I worked at the empire they used these terms for specific positions/levels. But then they would also you the term 'team leader' to denote someone who didn't have any official status, but was expected to lead a team of people anyway.

Beach...being a team leader sucks...Life!

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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TurquoiseGirl
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by mercurythief:
That's not a bad idea, except you're relying on others to fix your situation for you. If you don't like your job, deal with it yourself. Don't rely on me to change my behavior to help you.

Wow! How selfish. I mean, because I'm not Black does that mean that I would have no moral obligation not to patronize a business that discriminates against black people or whose owner is a known racist? I mean really. I've got mine, screw you. You must be Republican...

I feel we have a moral obligation to make our choices when we shop according to our morality. And I acknowledge that this is a lot easier to do when you have a lot more money.

And I must admit to having made a bad one recently. The grocery store near me closed and a new one moved in. It is a smaller, local chain. The prices are about 15% higher than what I am used to, the selection is not as good, but, hey, TGirl, put your money where your mouth is and support your local merchant.

So I did. Until I found out that this merchant did not, in fact, pay a living wage (and is, in fact, opposing legislation to have one), whereas the the bigger chain with the unionized cashiers did. Let's see? Higher wages for the workers? More selection? Friendlier people? Cheaper? Count me in.


Look at it this way: no one stops buying gas or driving cars when the price for gas goes up and is making the oil execs and shareholders richer. Why should we object to paying a little more money so our fellow citizens can have a decent break?

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There are people who drive really nice cars who feel that [those] cars won't be as special if other people drive them too. Where I come from, we call those people "selfish self-satisfied gits." -Chloe

Posts: 6995 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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