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snopes
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Tire retailers are beginning to offer pure nitrogen gas as an alternative to compressed air, which has been the standard as along as pneumatic tires have been on the market.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/highway1/la-hy-wheels9feb09,1,2456215.story

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RealityChuck/Boston Charlie
The First USA Noel


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So instead of being 80% nitrogen, they're 100%?

I suppose it'd be slightly less reactive than air, but how often do tired go bad from the inside?

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Delta-V
Xboxing Day


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Depends on how long you keep your tires. Since I usually burn through the tread within 2 years, it's not a problem. And the outside is subject to much worse than water and oil...they get hit with salt, sun, and whatever's leaked on the road.

The main benefit is the nitrogen has no water content. Water, flashing to steam as the tires heat up, can cause a noticible change in tire pressure. That's why some race cars (which can be sensitive to even 1psi of pressure change) use nitrogen. Using a water trap on your compressed air line works just fine for everyday use.

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"My neighbor asked why anyone would need a car that can go 190 mph. If the answer isn't obvious, and explaination won't help." - Csabe Csere

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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2 years? Perhaps you should rotate more often.

But I noticed that Costco was offering nitrogen tire fills the other day. Perhaps I'll check it out.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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lawguy
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Theoretical advantages.

Real world profit margin. [Roll Eyes]

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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But it'll take quite awhile to pay off the equipment.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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RoofingGuy
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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr is for Lovers:
2 years? Perhaps you should rotate more often.

Tires are offered in a wide range of tread life... anything from below 60,000km (37,000 miles) to over 180,000km (112,000 miles) is not uncommon. When I was going to college, I was putting over 1200km (746 miles) on the car a week (and some people use their car even more than that). At that rate, the tread on a low-end tire would be gone in just under a year (50-ish weeks), regardless of rotation and proper inflation.

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Spicyitalian
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Unless the tires are evacuated at the time they are put on, there's still going to be air in them. Tires already have air in them even at 0 psi. So first they have to be inflated to seat the beads, then they have to be evacuated and hopefully not unseat the beads, then refilled with nitrogen. I'm not seeing it happen with me anytime soon.

BTW: I generally go through tires quicker than most because of how I like to drive. Different compounds have vastly different tread life. Some good R coumpounds will wear through the 'tread' in about 4 hours of track time, that's not even counting the professional ones used for indy, nascar, etc...

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ilwrath
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Unless the tires are evacuated at the time they are put on, there's still going to be air in them. Tires already have air in them even at 0 psi. So first they have to be inflated to seat the beads, then they have to be evacuated and hopefully not unseat the beads, then refilled with nitrogen. I'm not seeing it happen with me anytime soon.
Hmm... Good point. I wonder how they deal with that? Doesn't say what they do about the ~1 bar of air that starts in the tire when it's fit to the rim.

As for myself, unless it's a free service from one of the local tire shops, I can't see myself going for it, either. I only get about 2 years out of the tires for my Mustang (ZR-rated 30,000 mile) so I doubt that Oxygen is causing them much harm.

Plus it would be such a pain trying to keep people from adding regular air to them. Everytime you go to get an oil change you have to explain to the kid that you have Nitrogen in your tires, while he looks at you like you grew another head... [lol]

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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quote:
Originally posted by RoofingGuy:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr is for Lovers:
2 years? Perhaps you should rotate more often.

Tires are offered in a wide range of tread life... anything from below 60,000km (37,000 miles) to over 180,000km (112,000 miles) is not uncommon. When I was going to college, I was putting over 1200km (746 miles) on the car a week (and some people use their car even more than that). At that rate, the tread on a low-end tire would be gone in just under a year (50-ish weeks), regardless of rotation and proper inflation.
Let me just say this: I have always been able to make tires outlast their tread warranty.

My guess is style of driving affects treadwear as much as rotation and inflation.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Fowlplay
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I spend about half of my days in my truck. I put on roughly 40k per year, so 80 thousand miles (2 years) on a truck tire is about as good as you can expect. And that is with a lot of highway miles too. Plus I pull a trailer and go to a lot of construction sites. I'm usually lucky if I can get a tire to last it's full life without impalling itself on something that makes it un-repairable, but even when I do and even when I take very good care of them, the treadware rarely goes too far past their posted rating.

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"Sometimes it will be fluffy bunnies and cotton candy. Sometimes it will be napalm and defoliants. Sometimes it is roasted bunnies." -Rhiandmoi

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RoofingGuy
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr is for Lovers:
quote:
Originally posted by RoofingGuy:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr is for Lovers:
2 years? Perhaps you should rotate more often.

Tires are offered in a wide range of tread life... anything from below 60,000km (37,000 miles) to over 180,000km (112,000 miles) is not uncommon. When I was going to college, I was putting over 1200km (746 miles) on the car a week (and some people use their car even more than that). At that rate, the tread on a low-end tire would be gone in just under a year (50-ish weeks), regardless of rotation and proper inflation.
Let me just say this: I have always been able to make tires outlast their tread warranty.

My guess is style of driving affects treadwear as much as rotation and inflation.

So, if Fowlplay drove "better", that'd get over 80k out of a 35k tire?

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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Uh, I didn't say that.

I said my tires outlast their treadwear warranty.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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RoofingGuy
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Ok, I've had tires oultast their "performance rating" too... but I don't see what that specifically has to do with your original "2 years?" comment.

The post of mine you quoted said that some tires are "rated" as low as 37k (or lower), so the
quote:
Let me just say this: I have always been able to make tires outlast their tread warranty.
seemed to be implying (seeing as how it was all stemming from the "2 years?" question) that driving style could extend tire life by that much.

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I refuse to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person...

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I was really just offering some advice, RoofingGuy.

I have never had tires that lasted only two years, regardless of their treadwear rating. And since tires cost me ~$500/set, even six more months of wear is worth it to me.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Delta-V
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I don't think I've ever bought a tire with any treadwear warranty for my car. Generally, low treadwear-rated tires don't have one. But my excessive tire wear has more to high-g cornering and aggressive alignment settings. This set might last me more than 2 years simply because I've got 2 cars now to split the driving between. I'm guessing I won't get much mileage out of the Goodyear F1 Supercar tires on the other car...at least the rear ones. [Big Grin]

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Robigus, Frozen Mushroom
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I'm not sure about the cost consideration. At my work, we "rent" (purchase the gas contents of the cylinder with a signed agreement to refill the cylinders only from them. If we stop using the cylinder, we have to return them) cylinders from a local supply house, and a replacement/refill of a medium tank of nitrogen is around $15. A tank this size would allow me to do several fill and flushes of both my vehicles, and have enough nitrogen left to keep the pressure up for the entire life of these tires, and perhaps the next set as well. For a commercial enterprise, this might be too expensive, but if for my personal use, I think I could swing the price.
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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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The article in the OP seems to talk about a very different type of system, Robigus.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Robigus, Frozen Mushroom
The First USA Noel


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The system in the OP is basically a filter that removes everything but the dry nitrogen, and uses it to fill tires. I'm just saying, for the cost of what the article says the stores are charging customers, I would get my own nitrogen, rather than pay the store price, IF I were inclined to run nitrogen in my tires
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Joseph Z
Xboxing Day


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Originally posted by AnglRdr is for Lovers:
2 years? Perhaps you should rotate more often.

It also depends on if you burn rubber a little too often as well that can effect your tire efficiency. Can drop it below 2 years too.

Racers have to replace their tires 4-10 sets a day depending on how many laps to run because of the high burning they do whether from the pit road or burnout from crash or otherwise.

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Joseph Z

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snopes
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Comment: THERE IS A WHOLE BUNCH OF TALK ABOUT PLACED PUTTING NITROGEN IN
PLACE OF AIR IN CAR TIRES - IT DID NOT THINK ABOUT IT WHEN I PICKED IT
UP -NUMEROUS CHAT SITES DISCUSS THIS BUT, AS A CHEMICAL ENGINEER, I DO
NOT TRUST ANY OF THESE OPINIONS.
THE ONLY THING I CAN ESTABLISH THAT HAS ANY BIT OF POTENTIAL TRUTH IS THAT
NASCAR AND THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY MAY USE N2 IN THEIR TIRES - BUT APPARENTLY
ONLY OUT OF CONVENIENCE (NOT NEEDING A COMPRESSOR ON SITE TO FILL).
THERE ALSO MAY BE SOME TRUTH ABOUT ELIMINATING MOISTURE IN THE TIRES WHICH
CAN CAUSE SOME MORE ERATIC PRESSURE CHANGES AS TEMPERATURE CHANGES. THE
REST ALL SMELLS LIKE SNAKE OIL.
THE INTERESTING THING IS THAT APPARENTLY CAR AND TIRE STORES ARE SELLING
THIS AT AND IN SOME PLACES AT A PREMIUM. AS AN EXAMPLE I NOW HAVE GREEN
VALVE STEM CAPS AND I REMEMBER SOMETHING BEING MENTIONED ON ONE OF THE
MESSAGE BOARDS BEHING THE CLERK.
THE ONE THING I KNOW IS IT IS PROBABLY NOT BAD BUT I HAVE A HARD TIME
BELIEVING THAT AIR (78% NITROGEN AND 20% OXYGEN) IS NOT EXACTLY HARMFUL OR
DANGEROUS...
ANYWAY...
DO Y'ALL KNOW OF ANY FACTUAL INFORMATION FROM A REPUTABLE SOURCE THAT CAN
CLEAR THIS UP?

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Wolf333
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Someone has already mentioned the expansion of the air in the tire as it heats up, and that is exacly why we use nitrogen in aircraft tires (along with contraction during cold weather.

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nod
I Saw Three Shipments


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Hi - long time not been around!

Just spoken to a mate who's involved in motor racing. The tyres are filled with Nitrogen because of it's low coefficient of expansion. Even the 22% of other gasses is enough to make a noticeable difference to pressures at racing speeds and temperatures.

Aircraft tyres are subject to much bigger temperature changes from the -50* centigrade at cruising height to the fairly extreme temperatures caused by friction on landing.
Hope this is of help.

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Doug4.7
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The other reason for using N is moisture. You do not want any water in a tire that will go from -60C to +140C. The water can REALLY change the expansion coefficient.

For a car, however, it is more or less BS.

ETA: Sorry, somehow missed Delta-V's post.

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Hero_Mike
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug4.7:
The other reason for using N is moisture. You do not want any water in a tire that will go from -60C to +140C. The water can REALLY change the expansion coefficient.

For a car, however, it is more or less BS.

Actually, it isn't BS. If the temperature where you live goes below freezing, one of the dangers that you face are having the moisture in your tires freeze/thaw along the rim or in the valve stem (which can cause slow leaks). You also have the issue of corrosion around the bead.

Most garage air compressors will have a water trap, and some will have an in-line oiler (because the air is used primarily for air tools), but few use a refrigerant-type air dryer (such as that used for instrument air), which is what you would like, just to keep any moisture out of your tires.

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Brad from Georgia
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How about using helium? Then I could finally have the flying car they promised me back in 1956!

Brad "they were supposed to deliver it in 1981" from Georgia

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CheseJRS
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For what its worth, we put dry nitrogen into aircraft tires, some of which are pressurized to 200+ psi. Here is a clip of a rejected take of test gone wrong that shows the dangers of tires in aviation tires at least http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhMEN959voE Wait until about 4 minutes or so.

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Singing in the Drizzle
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quote:
Originally posted by Brad from Georgia:
How about using helium? Then I could finally have the flying car they promised me back in 1956!

Brad "they were supposed to deliver it in 1981" from Georgia

Helium is so small it will most likely leak right thru the tire wall.
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