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Author Topic: Is Limewire legal?
Jinxie
The First USA Noel


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My son got an MP3 player, and I am trying to figure out where I can get music for it. SOmeone told me limewire is free. The first thing out of my mouth is then it can't be legal. I know that you pay for limewire pro but I am thinking you are paying for the software not the music.

So Is there somewhere I can go and pay XX per month to download music? I am trying to avoid places that are 99 per song because I don't want 200 $1 charges on my debit card.


Help please.

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Jinxie
The First USA Noel


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Oh yeah and if it is Illegal why has Riaa not shut them down yet?

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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What kind of MP3 player is it? That might influence which services you can use.

As far having 200 $1 charges on your card goes - I can only speaek for iTunes, but they have a "shopping cart" option, where you can purchase several songs at once (or albums), so you'd only see a single charge on the card.

LimeWire is a peer-to-peer file sharing site, and the odds are songs from any known artists should not be there.

ETA: The program (LimeWire) is not illegal, and should not be illegal or shut down, because it has legitimate uses.

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macblanc
I Am Curious, Yellowtail


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Most people just get music from their CD collection. I assume this is legal since it is your CD that you have paid for already. Just find a nice, free programme on the internet to compress the wave file to MP3. My daughter and I do it all the time...
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Jinxie
The First USA Noel


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Chillas, It is a Phillips 1 GB Go. He won it at school.

So I don't think I can use iTunes.

Macblanc, yeah we have put the songs off the CD's on there but there are other songs he wants that we don't have on CD. I don't want to buy the whole CD if I can just buy a couple of songs he wants.

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LittleDuck
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Speaking from past experience, I would not recommend peer-to-peer file sharing networks. They have far too many spyware issues and viruses making the rounds (and DOYC knows what else). There are also some MP3 sites that charge you by the month or year as opposed to per download. I can't think of the names right now but I know my SO used to belong to one.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Limewire used to be good, but, frankly, I've not found anything there in a long, long time. I was also finding quite a bit of false files there.

I recommend Emule, which is also free, and often runs off of german servers. It takes far longer to download, but you can rip an entire album in a night. I just got Bonnie Prince Billy's and Joanna Newsom's latest albums there.


However, if your kid is into more mainstream music, Limewire might be fine. I have a tendency to listen to really esoteric stuff, so....
Legality? Technically, no. I think, personally, due to international law, emule is safer.

Just recommend that your child doesn't rip movies or TV shows prior to US release dates.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I just found emusic.com. They offer all their music in MP3 versions and charge a monthly fee that varies based on the number of downloads. You can download up to 30 songs/month for $9.99/month. They also have a free trial that offers up to 25 downloads.

The site does have an indy bent, so if you're looking for Top 40-type stuff, it may not be the best choice for you.

Have you checked out the website(s) of any radio station(s) you regularly listen to? Some stations offer downloads, and since the selection is based on their playlist, a station you like will probably offer songs you like.

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Jinxie
The First USA Noel


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Ryda, I am the one who will rip the music. I have to do it at work. Our home Pc to old and slow. SO that isn't a problem. But I will look into Emule.

Littleduck that is the kind of site I would prefer. If you or SO can think of the name I would like to check it out.

ETA Thanks Laine I hadn't thought about that.

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The Diceman
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Two points of view:

1) My 15-year-old son recently moved in with us and quickly took over the home computer, visiting Limewire daily. We had numerous spyware troubles that took months to clean up. Next time, the kid pays for The Geek Squad out of his allowance.

2) As a performing musician, I'm always conflicted with the whole downoading songs things. On the one hand, for artists such as myself who don't have the power of a major recording label behind them, it can be a great way to get your music heard. On the other hand, your art is being given away for free - or being stolen. I don't understand why people don't look at it as stealing. An artist created a product that they want to sell. How's that any different than any other manufacturer? (OK, enough with the starving, struggling artist rant.)

I myself don't download songs. I'm enough of a music geek that I want to read the liner notes and such. Of course,now I have storage issues for the hundreds (yes, hundreds - more than 2,000 at last count) of CDs I own, not to mention records and tapes.

BTW, Limewire has been sued by the RIAA, which was countersued by Limewire.

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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File sharing programs like Limewire are legal. Sharing copyrighted files isn't.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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AuntNene
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Jinxie...If you are doing this all I work I would stay away from any peer to peer networking. Most places have rules against any sort of personal downloading, because you dont know what you are putting on the system, if you are on a network, you could potentially be putting the whole network at risk.
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Not_Done_Living
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Thats the best thing about living in Canada right now..

We pay taxes on our recording media, and our recorders, that go to SOCAN (which is the Canadian version of RIAA) so downloading music is legal here. (Although there are canadian sites that charge you to download music and advertise themselves as "the legal way")..
Oh adn as for spyware etc.. you prolly didn't get it from limewire.. i have used it for 2 years without any issues.. you prolly got it from the porn sites and warez sites your 15 year old visits.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by The Diceman:
On the one hand, for artists such as myself who don't have the power of a major recording label behind them, it can be a great way to get your music heard. On the other hand, your art is being given away for free - or being stolen.

See, I use it as a weeder. However, if I like what I hear, I'm likely to a) buy the album, and b) see you live if/when you come through.

I totally get the conflict, but I can't afford to test drive bands/albums for $10-$15 a piece.

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Buckleupp
Away in a Manager


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Bear in mind also that with some subscription sites where you can download a number of songs per month for a set fee, if you ever stop paying the fee, the songs that you downloaded might disappear from your computer/player. I'm not sure how that works but my ex told me and he's a tech freak.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Buckleupp:
Bear in mind also that with some subscription sites where you can download a number of songs per month for a set fee, if you ever stop paying the fee, the songs that you downloaded might disappear from your computer/player. I'm not sure how that works but my ex told me and he's a tech freak.

I'm guessing, however, if you partition your hard drive, or even just place them in a different location on your hard drive, that won't happen.

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NeeCD
Happy Holly Days


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I'm not sure, but I think it's more that you no longer have the license to play the music (so you have a file, but you can't play it) rather than the file disappearing completely. I know that eMusic doesn't place any restriction on what you can do with the file - and they download as .MP3, not .WMA or whatever Apple's extension is. I think that unless your son is into older music or has very eclectic tastes, he might not like eMusic, though.

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Morrigan
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Not_Done_Living:
you prolly got it from the porn sites and warez sites your 15 year old visits.

I've read a couple of your posts and found them offensive.

That's enough of that. That, and please, learn how to spell/type.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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My grandson's friend put Limewire on his computer, and my daughter-in-law is convinced that it's okay because the friend's father works with my son. Go figure.

Anyway, I asked my friend who does website design for a living, and this was his response:
quote:
Hope you have a great, happy and safe holiday!

Yes, Limewire is legal . . . today.

The bottom line is if you're able to download movies and music that are unedited for free it is considered stealing. Thats why Apple launched itunes and Yahoo launched MusicMatch and so on.

It's a kid thing. For whatever reason, they don't want to pay the 99 cents for their tunes and if there is a "free" option that's "cool," and they're gonna' go that route.

I wouldn't worry about your grandson. He'll realize the free downloads are of lessor quality than itunes etc. and probably move on.

Whats happening is that "everything" movies and music is moving away from tangible discs to downloads, and until it's organized there's going to be the Limewire group out there.

I also asked my friend who owns the site I moderate, and this was his response:
quote:

Sorry about the late delay, but I was shopping. ;-)

Limewire is a legal program – however – I would say that ¾ of the downloads aren’t legal. Let’s see – I’ll give you an example – Joe downloads a 1960 version of JL’s Rock-a-Bye. He goes on Limewire and allows it to be shared - that means that hundreds of thousands of people can get Joe’s rip. Joe can be taken to court and jail for violating the copyright law. I’m sure you’ve heard of the lawsuits people have gotten into because of situations like this.

I would not trust and/or download any music from any of these programs. I won’t lie – if I miss a tv show – I’ll look to see if I find it on there – and on occasion I’ll check it out to see pieces of software but 9x out of 10, I’m buying it.

I’d be a bit careful – that’s all.

Merry Christmas!

So, it looks like the choice is yours. I prefer to pay the $.99 per song for mine, but I don't care what other people do. I just don't want the problems that might arise otherwise. If I were younger, I might have a different attitude. Who knows?

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
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Llewtrah
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
File sharing programs like Limewire are legal. Sharing copyrighted files isn't.

The software itself is legal because it has a legitimate use. Sharing your own files is legal e.g. if you are a musician and you want to make your own music (that you write and play yourself) available for free, that is legal. Sharing files that belong to other artists e.g. ripped from a CD bought from a shop is not legal.

RIAA have been tracking down the downloaders and will sue people regardless of whether they are 7 years old or 70 years old. Often the parents have to pay up in court for what their offspring thinks is a freebie. They've sued colleges where students download music.

One way of tackling the downloaders is to poison the downloads - putting malicious code in the files etc. Filesharing is also a very quick way to get very nasty viruses on your computer - they've done the damage before the anti-virus programmes have released an update to detect them. Several of my colleagues have lost all the PC files due to a virus, in most cases caught by offspring using a file sharing program.

(An analogy is a gun. It may be legal to buy and own one for your own protection or to use on shooting ranges. It is not legal to use it to rob a store.)

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patriot1
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I have used Limewire for over two years and have not had any spyware issues with it. And you can set it up so you do not share your files that are on your PC or laptop. Then you can download without anyone accessing your files, and you are not sharing. Believe it or not, I had Itunes on my laptop, and had more problems with that program. I finally uninstalled it, and had to do that three times, parts of it stayed on my laptop. Why, I don't know.

As for being legal, well, that's a thorny issue, no doubt. I mainly use Limewire to find older songs that I do not have on CD and I cannot seem to find anywhere else.

I will say, it does rankle me when I buy a CD, and there are only a couple of songs that I like, and yet I paid $15-$20 for the disc. Especially when it probably cost the recording company about $5 to make the disk, and that includes paying the artist, material costs, etc. There was a magazine article I read not too long ago that detailed the cost of producing a CD and it average out at about $5 per disc, and then they expect us to pay three to four times that? That makes me want to use a program like Limewire even more.

Okay, end of unintended rant.

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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So, it sounds like merely downloading freebies for your own use won't get you in trouble, but the file-sharing aspect will. Is that correct? [Confused]

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
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Jenn
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Morrigan:
I've read a couple of your posts and found them offensive.

That's enough of that. That, and please, learn how to spell/type.

You're the board police now? I must have missed that memo. "That's enough of that" indeed, Morrigan.

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ILS
Deck the Malls


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quote:
So, it sounds like merely downloading freebies for your own use won't get you in trouble, but the file-sharing aspect will. Is that correct? [Confused]
Only if what you are downloading is supposed to be FREE according to the person who created it, or has legally joined the public domain.

If Joe allows his CD collection to be shared, and Sue downloads songs from it, both Joe and Sue can be in legal trouble.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago, G.R.I.T.S.:
So, it sounds like merely downloading freebies for your own use won't get you in trouble, but the file-sharing aspect will. Is that correct? [Confused]

I think it is all file-sharing; it's just that if you're "sharing" files you don't own, you can (and, IMO, should) get into trouble for it. That's the stealing part.

There are 97-eleven music purchase websites now; while there may be some very eclectic music that isn't available for sale, there is really no reason for people to steal what doesn't belong to them.

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Thanks. That's kind of what I thought. I have a few songs I downloaded from various artists' sites, but they were on the page, clearly labeled as available for downloading. Not very many do that, though. I got one song I had been wanting for years, so Yay! When I went back to that site a couple of weeks ago, the song was no longer there. Then I noticed that the artist had just released a new oldies CD, and that song was on it. I suppose that's why it was taken down!

ETA: I think I'd better have another talk with my grandson about using Limewire! I'm sure he thinks it's okay. Actually, I haven't said much about it to anyone but my daughter-in-law, and since she seemed convinced it's okay, I let it drop until I could find out more. I think I've found out quite enough! Thanks everyone for the information. It's my opinion, too, that you shouldn't take what doesn't belong to you. $.99 a song doesn't seem so expensive for me to have peace of mind about what I'm doing. [Smile]

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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Errata
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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If you pay for a gnutella client or other p2p file sharing program like limewire, you are only buying the right to use the program. You are not buying any particular rights to the content, which still belongs to the copyright holders who don't benefit at all from your file sharing client payment. The actual content you can get from the program is provided by other users like yourself, not by the service. You could legally use limewire to download free public domain recordings, but those are rare and probably not what you're looking for. The vast majority of the music is commercial music that it would be illegal for you to download.

The reason its not shut down is that there are potentially non-infringing uses. You could refrain from illegally sharing copyrighted materials and stick to files that you have a legal right to share. Of course, most people don't do that. Most users use it to violate copyrights. But thats up to the users, not the tool. It isn't some central company offering illegal files for you to download, but other users, so its the uploaders (and to a lesser extent downloaders) that the RIAA has to go after. The RIAA can go after you even if all you do is download, not upload, but they've really got their hands full, so their effort is mostly on people who upload many songs.

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ertceps
I Saw Three Shipments


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You could try Bittorrent to get whatever music you want...it's different than peer to peer in that the bigger files(like for movies or large software) normally are broken into small files and you get what you are downloading from several different people at once...meanwhile others are getting the parts of the file you have but they don't

It's safe...others can only access the files you are downloading and then only while you are downloading...it is considered proper etiquette though to allow your upload ratio to be at least close to your download ratio or you'll be thought a "leecher" and some sites will ban you from using their torrents

If you have a fast connection you can get a whole album really fast or selected songs in minutes...it does tend to be more mainstream so if you're looking for lesser known artists you probably should stick with Limewire

BTW due to the nature of the way Bittorrent works you are much more unlikely to download misnamed files because you get your torrents(the thing you download first to get the file you want) are all on sites where whoever downloaded the file first can come back and warn others the file had some kind of problem

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Jinxie
The First USA Noel


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Thanks guys for all the info. I think I will steer clear of Limewire. I agree SDD .99 isn't much for a song.

One more question though. In the near future I will most likely be getting an Ipod. (sold out @ christmas) If I buy music from iTunes and store it on my computer, can I put it on his player and mine?

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Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by ertceps:
You could try Bittorrent to get whatever music you want...

Upon reading the thread, I don't think the issue is with the filesharing software. The issue is the legality of the music files. Bittorrent, eMule, Limewire, etc. are all going to be illegal sources of music content.

For legal music content, there are only a few choices:
-Pay per song/album sites such as iTunes
-Subscription services like Rhapsody, where you pay a monthly fee for the rights to play downloaded music (although, cancel your subscription and you can no longer play the files)
-Free content from MP3.com (where many "unsigned" artists put their music out)
-Rip music from your own CD collection

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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Jinxie:
One more question though. In the near future I will most likely be getting an Ipod. (sold out @ christmas) If I buy music from iTunes and store it on my computer, can I put it on his player and mine?

Yes. It's quite easy to put songs on multiple iPods.

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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Llewtrah
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago, G.R.I.T.S.:
So, it sounds like merely downloading freebies for your own use won't get you in trouble, but the file-sharing aspect will. Is that correct? [Confused]

No. Simply downloading music which has not released into the public domain by its owner/creator is illegal. Sharing may get you into trouble sooner, but downloading also gets you sued.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3140160.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3022858.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3096340.stm

The above cases were all against people who downloaded music.

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Messybeast Cat Resource Archive
Llewtrah's Soapbox

Posts: 2040 | From: Chelmsford, Essex, England | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Methuselah:
quote:
Originally posted by Jinxie:
One more question though. In the near future I will most likely be getting an Ipod. (sold out @ christmas) If I buy music from iTunes and store it on my computer, can I put it on his player and mine?

Yes. It's quite easy to put songs on multiple iPods.
His player isn't an iPod, though. I think there is conversion software that will convert iTunes into .wma or .mp3 files, however.

And you can buy music that can be burned to CD or to portable music players from Rhapsody, as well, as I recall.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Disc Golf
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I have been legally told that limewire is illegal. Don't use it; all it takes is one bad download to completely ruin a computer.

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When life hands you lemons, go play a round of disc golf

Posts: 12 | From: Ohio | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Llewtrah
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Disc Golf:
I have been legally told that limewire is illegal. Don't use it; all it takes is one bad download to completely ruin a computer.

I'm not sure where you got that statement, but Limewire (the program) IS legal. It is legal to own it, install it and use it provided you aren't using it to breach copyright.
Using Limewire to swap copyright material is illegal.
Limewire - Legal or Illegal?
Limewire - Legal or Not?
Limewire & Copyright

Many people use the term "Limewire" to mean "sharing music" rather than mean the legal Limewire software itself.

As to whether it is safe, that is another issue entirely.

ETA: File-sharing software is very good - and legal - for exchanging open-source and public domain software and getting the texts of books whose copyright has expired (not all of which are on Project Gutenberg yet). Getting hold of old books on the networks is useful in academic research.

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Messybeast Cat Resource Archive
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Posts: 2040 | From: Chelmsford, Essex, England | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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