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Author Topic: Burglarized?
jessboo
The First USA Noel


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I've seen the word 'burglarized' used a couple of times recently here. I was wondering, is it actually a recognised word? We say 'burgled'- to me, burglarized sounds like you're joking about being burgled.

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Penny
Deck the Malls


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I'm glad you brought it up, as it bothers me a lot (I ran out of the thread in Rantidote screaming). I wonder if someone who "burglarizes" would be a "burglarizer".
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Lainie
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Llewtrah posted a pretty thorough explanation of burgled vs. burglarized in that thread in Rantidote.

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jessboo
The First USA Noel


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Oh, sorry- I only read a couple of posts before I went for a shower, and I just realised that I didn't finish it.

OK nevermind!! [fish]

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Penny
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Thanks Lainie.

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unhappy_buffalo
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/burglarized

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Llewtrah
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Llewtrah posted a pretty thorough explanation of burgled vs. burglarized in that thread in Rantidote.

(Which you may or may not agree with, but it was written for a newsletter)

BACK-FORMATIONS AND NOUN-VERBS

The noun "burglar" entered the English language first. Unlike many nouns ending in "-er" and "-or", it was not related to a verb. Next came "burglary", the crime commited by a burglar (stealing from a property). In the 19th century, there arose a need for a verb less cumbersome than the construction "to commit [an act of] burglary". In the UK, the verb "burgle" was back-formed from "burglar". At around the same time in America, "burglarize" was formed.

Both verbs were created by back-formation of a noun, but in British English back-formation is often performed by removing a suffix from a noun, while in American English, back-formation is performed by adding a suffix to a noun.

In American English, the rather cumbersome "burglarize" is preferred (and is about 30 times more common in print) and purists object to "burgle" because they view it as back-formation while "burglarize" uses a regular rule (regular, that is, in American English). In fact both verbs come from a noun and both were therefore back-formations.

In the UK, "burglarize" is objectionable, indeed the habit of "verbing nouns" using "-ize" is considered objectionable. "Burgle" is preferred in the UK because it follows the regular rule travel/traveller, garden/gardener hence burgle/burglar.

In American English, "burgle" is more often used in a facetious or jocular manner. Conversely, native British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything.

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Four Kitties
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quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
Conversely, native British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything.

Such as in al-yew-min-ee-um and jag-yew-ar? [Eek!]

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franjava
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Too funny, Four Kitties! I remember Colin Mochre making fun of al-yew-min-ee-um on the English "Whose Line." Of course, on the American "Whose Line" Colin is made fun of for all the Canadian pronouciations he makes. Silly Canuckian! [Smile]

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Llewtrah
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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
Conversely, native British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything.

Such as in al-yew-min-ee-um and jag-yew-ar? [Eek!]
The omission of syllables and of the letter "u" is considered laziness. I'm sure this "literacy problem" will be added to the next version of the "Declaration of the Revocation of Independence" [lol] . Terminology such as kerb/curb, bonnet/hood, boot/trunk will also be corrected when Her Maj takes over. Maybe we will introduce corporal punishment in schools in order to beat our terminology, spellings and pronunciations into you [Big Grin] *Llewtrah swishes her school cane in readiness*

Oddly enough, this reminds me of the Xerox-lore/email about revised spelling where the end result is faux-German (Ve haf vays of making you talk like us)

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
Conversely, native British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything.

Such as in al-yew-min-ee-um and jag-yew-ar? [Eek!]
The omission of syllables and of the letter "u" is considered laziness.
Where is the syllable that we're supposedly leaving out of a-lu-min-um? Do Brits spell it with an extra vowel?

And the "u" in jaguar is not omitted. The "u" and "a" are pronounced together as a dipthong. [Razz]

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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Where is the syllable that we're supposedly leaving out of a-lu-min-um? Do Brits spell it with an extra vowel?

Yes.

(awaits posting of the evolution of the two words which I can't remember)

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Where is the syllable that we're supposedly leaving out of a-lu-min-um? Do Brits spell it with an extra vowel?

Yes.

(awaits posting of the evolution of the two words which I can't remember)

But we don't spell it that way, so why should we pronounce it that way?

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Llewtrah
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
Conversely, native British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything.

Such as in al-yew-min-ee-um and jag-yew-ar? [Eek!]
The omission of syllables and of the letter "u" is considered laziness.
Where is the syllable that we're supposedly leaving out of a-lu-min-um? Do Brits spell it with an extra vowel?

And the "u" in jaguar is not omitted. The "u" and "a" are pronounced together as a dipthong. [Razz]

I meant the omission of "u" in favo(u)r, savio(u)r etc (one of the gripes in one of the many variants of the Revocation).

I can't recall off the top of my head the details of alumin(i)um's spellings, but it goes something along the lines of:

USAnians named it, but Brits wanted the -ium suffix to make it regular with other elements that end in -um.

Alternatively, there is an oft-repeated tale that alumin-i-um was spelled incorrectly on packaging of "aluminum foil" (tinfoil) in the USA. It being to expensive to produce new packaging, this led to it being called aluminun in the USA while the Brits would, of course, never misspell words.

Meanwhile, as one of the world's main producers of the stuff, the Australians apparently don't care how we all spell it, just so long as we keep on buying it from them.

I'm running out of lunchtime so I'll leave it for other Snopesters to confirm or debunk the tales of how alumin(i)um got two spellings and pronunciations. If it isn't already on the ULRP, perhaps it ought to be [dunce] .

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Mosherette
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Where is the syllable that we're supposedly leaving out of a-lu-min-um? Do Brits spell it with an extra vowel?

Yes.

(awaits posting of the evolution of the two words which I can't remember)

But we don't spell it that way, so why should we pronounce it that way?
I never said you should. I was answering your question about spelling.

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Hans Off
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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Where is the syllable that we're supposedly leaving out of a-lu-min-um? Do Brits spell it with an extra vowel?

Yes.

(awaits posting of the evolution of the two words which I can't remember)

IIRC discussed in Bill Bryson's history of nearly everything...

Bloke that "discovered" "Al" Published paper in Europe using the "English" pronounciation and spelling...

Few weeks or months latter publishes the paper in the US using the US version of pronounciation and spelling (indecisive man)

The difference stuck there!

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"British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything." Llewtrah


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AmISalmon
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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Where is the syllable that we're supposedly leaving out of a-lu-min-um? Do Brits spell it with an extra vowel?

Yes.

(awaits posting of the evolution of the two words which I can't remember)

An explanation of the evolution is here. In effect the "IUM" was adopted because most of the elements ended in "ium" and ALUMIUM was felt to be too unwieldly.

quote:
Derived from the Latin ALUMEN for ALUM (Potassium aluminium sulphate). In 1761 French Chemist Louis-Bernard Guyton de Morveau proposed that ALUMINE for the base material of ALUM. De Morveau was instrumental in setting up a standardised system for chemical nomenclature and often collaborated with Antoine Lavoisier, who in 1787, suggested that ALUMINE was the oxide of a previously undiscovered metal.

In 1808 Sir Humphrey Davy proposed the name ALUMIUM for the metal. This rather unwieldy name was soon replaced by ALUMINUM and later the word ALUMINIUM was adopted by the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemists in order to conform with the "ium" ending of most elements. By the mid-1800s both spellings were in use, indeed Charles Dickens commented at the time that he felt both names were too difficult for the masses to pronounce!

The patents of both Hall and Hroult refer to ALUMINIUM and the company Hall helped set up was originally called the Pittsburgh ALUMINIUM Company. It was shortly renamed the Pittsburgh Reduction Company and in the USA the metal gradually began to be known only as ALUMINUM (in 1907 Hall's company finally became the ALUMINUM Company of America). In 1925 the American Chemical Society decided to use the name ALUMINUM in their official publications. Most of the world have kept the I in ALUMINIUM but it is interesting to note that the name for the metal's oxide, ALUMINA has been universally accepted over its more convoluted alternatives, ALUMINE and ALUMINIA.

When I worked with Anglesey Aluminium (Aliwminiwm Mn) it was often pronounced as Al-ee-you-min-ee-um. [Smile]

Sulphur/Sulfur is one that went the other way in that IUPAC adopted the f-word as the official spelling.

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Bonnie
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quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Llewtrah posted a pretty thorough explanation of burgled vs. burglarized in that thread in Rantidote.

(Which you may or may not agree with, but it was written for a newsletter)

[...]


I'm sorry to obsess over this, but while I appreciate your writing that analysis, I raised a couple questions about it in the discussion in which it appeared earlier.

My primary concern there with respect to "burglarize" and "burgle" is the assumption that the latter is a British formation and, as such, that it illustrates a British custom regarding making verbs out of nouns. (Especially since the contrast in coinage between "burglarize" and "burgle" was punctuated by the observation that "native British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything.")

(And just because it was written for a newsletter a while ago doesn't mean we can't hold it up for some friendly scrutiny now, does it?)

-- Bonnie

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Gale
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And that's why I just say "We wuz robbed".
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Llewtrah
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quote:
Originally posted by Bonnie:
quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Llewtrah posted a pretty thorough explanation of burgled vs. burglarized in that thread in Rantidote.

(Which you may or may not agree with, but it was written for a newsletter)

[...]


I'm sorry to obsess over this, but while I appreciate your writing that analysis, I raised a couple questions about it in the discussion in which it appeared earlier.

My primary concern there with respect to "burglarize" and "burgle" is the assumption that the latter is a British formation and, as such, that it illustrates a British custom regarding making verbs out of nouns. (Especially since the contrast in coinage between "burglarize" and "burgle" was punctuated by the observation that "native British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything.")

(And just because it was written for a newsletter a while ago doesn't mean we can't hold it up for some friendly scrutiny now, does it?)

-- Bonnie

Indeed not. However, I wish to point out that it was researched at the time of writing. The observations on American vs British verb formations came from reputable published works, but with no need to footnote the article I didn't bother keeping references. The observation of which country formed which verb also came from published sources (dictionaries and linguistic studies) who based this on the first occurrences in print of the 2 forms in the 2 countries so it isn't an assumption, it was taken from research.

Because the article was an "opinion piece" (much like Snopes Rantidote) the common British perception of the American preference for polysyllabism fitted nicely with the researched material, which would otherwise have been too scholarly for the newsletter's irreverent tone.

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Mistletoey Chloe
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But you chose to share it here too. And here, we prefer evidence to irreverence.

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Steve
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:

Because the article was an "opinion piece" (much like Snopes Rantidote) the common British perception of the American preference for polysyllabism fitted nicely with the researched material, which would otherwise have been too scholarly for the newsletter's irreverent tone.

This may be a British perception, but I'm wondering if it's true. No doubt there are examples of the American version of a word being longer than the British, but then there are counter examples. Four Kitties mentioned two already, and Americans are likely to use "fall" for "autumn" and "orient" for "orientate".
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Llewtrah
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quote:
Originally posted by Glowy Chloe:
But you chose to share it here too. And here, we prefer evidence to irreverence.

I'm sure Google will be your friend. I did my research in the dictionaries section of Chelmsford Central Library. I was supposed to have been working on my thesis, but I somehow got sidetracked (which could explain why I got published in various magazines, but turned in my thesis a year late).

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queen of the bah-caramels
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quote:
Originally posted by Gale:
And that's why I just say "We wuz robbed".

Or my (least) favourite

" He woz a thief whot thieved from us".

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Steve
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quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
quote:
Originally posted by Glowy Chloe:
But you chose to share it here too. And here, we prefer evidence to irreverence.

I'm sure Google will be your friend.
I'm curious what you mean here. I once posted on a thread where the burgle/burglarize difference came up, and I posted some of the ideas you had (burgle with a British origin, burglarize with an American origin, both in the 1870s), using the OED as my source.

But Bonny has shown that the OED entries are incomplete for these two words. From some of the remarks you've made, it seems you still agree with the original post you made on the subject. Maybe I'm misreading you, so can you clarify?

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Grumpy
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quote:
Originally posted by Gale:
And that's why I just say "We wuz robbed".

Only if you were present at the scene of the crime. A robbery is a violent crime against a person, whereas a burglary simply connotes a break-in to a structure.

It's a common error. I wonder why the still-accurate expression "We wuz thieved!" never caught on.

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pob14
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quote:
Originally posted by Grumpy:
quote:
Originally posted by Gale:
And that's why I just say "We wuz robbed".

Only if you were present at the scene of the crime. A robbery is a violent crime against a person, whereas a burglary simply connotes a break-in to a structure.
With intent to commit a felony or a theft within. Otherwise it's trespass.

(In the interest of full accuracy.)

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Where is the syllable that we're supposedly leaving out of a-lu-min-um? Do Brits spell it with an extra vowel?

Yes.

(awaits posting of the evolution of the two words which I can't remember)

But we don't spell it that way, so why should we pronounce it that way?
I never said you should. I was answering your question about spelling.
But I was referring to your ealier comment that:

quote:
the omission of syllables. . .is considered laziness.
Since the syllable doesn't exist in the US spelling of the word, it can't be omitted.

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Bonnie
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:

But I was referring to your ealier comment that:

quote:
the omission of syllables. . .is considered laziness.

Actually, I don't think it was Mosherette who wrote that.

Bonnie "back to your regularly scheduled program[me]" Taylor

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Se non vero, ben trovato.

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Lainie
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Never mind, then. My apologies, Mosh.

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Bonnie
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quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:

The observations on American vs British verb formations came from reputable published works, but with no need to footnote the article I didn't bother keeping references.

[Bonnie self-reflects for a moment ... ]

Heck, I'm over-the-top obsessive enough that I footnote things I post here.

Bonnie "op cits attract" Taylor

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Se non vero, ben trovato.

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resident deity
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
Four Kitties mentioned two already, and Americans are likely to use "fall" for "autumn" and "orient" for "orientate".

"Fall", meaning autumn, is a slightly different case than other British/American differences. "Fall" is the original Modern English word for the season sandwiched betwixt Summer and Winter.

Sometime after the independence of the US and now, we British decided that "Autumn" was better and the US decided to carry on using the original word.

This is similar to US "gotten" (as opposed to "got") and the -ize suffix in US English (we British, with some exceptions, now prefer the more aesthetic -ise suffix).

Posts: 289 | From: Leicester, UK | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Steve
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quote:
Originally posted by resident deity:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
Four Kitties mentioned two already, and Americans are likely to use "fall" for "autumn" and "orient" for "orientate".

"Fall", meaning autumn, is a slightly different case than other British/American differences. "Fall" is the original Modern English word for the season sandwiched betwixt Summer and Winter.

Sometime after the independence of the US and now, we British decided that "Autumn" was better and the US decided to carry on using the original word.

According to the online dictionary, "autumn" precedes "fall" in English by almost three hundred years.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=autumn&searchmode=none
quote:



This is similar to US "gotten" (as opposed to "got") and the -ize suffix in US English (we British, with some exceptions, now prefer the more aesthetic -ise suffix).

More aesthetic? How so?
Posts: 1699 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
   

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