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Author Topic: Pregnancy, Adoption, & Parenting: Round 3
Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro:
Frank is now 23 inches long and 13 pounds. He'll be three months old tomorrow. Everyone around me keeps commenting that he's big for his age, but I honestly have no idea. I do know it feels like I'm lugging around a sack of potatoes all day. Also, he was sleeping through the night, eight or nine hours, but the last several days, he's only gone five or six. He'll eat nine ounces at about ten pm, about seven at 3am, and then another seven or eight 6 or 7am. The other two feedings eac day, he'll usually have about nine ounces. Is this a lot?

That sounds like a lot to me. Please remember, however, that at that age they really can't overeat -- he'll eat what he wants. If he eats too much, he'll throw up. If he's not vomiting after meals (not spitting up, I mean really vomiting), then he's fine. He's probably going through a growth spurt -- IIRC there's a major one around 3 months. Mention it to the pediatrician at your next visit, and s/he will reassure you.

What a big boy! Who's a big boy then!

Auntie Four Kitties

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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Zorro
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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LOL, I wasn't worried, per se. He has really long legs and arms and as a result, has been in three-month-old clothes for a month at least already. Hubby is 6'3", my little brother is 6'2", my little sister is 5'8"...and I am the runt at 5'4". We fully expect that Frank will be a Big Boy.

As far as feeding, we have always followed his lead- if he's still hungry, we'll give him refills. If he's not hungry, we don't "force" him to eat the rest of what's in the bottle. That's why all this eating has taken us so by surprise- all of a sudden, it's like we can't feed him enough!

I said to hubby the other night, "We may have no choice as far as having a second- we may only be able to afford to feed this one!: [lol]

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"Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!"
-John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"

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Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Khaled's first ped said that standard growth rate thingie is that you expect a baby to triple their birth weight at 12 months. Khaled hit his triple at around 9-10 months, and if Saleh keeps going like he's going, he'll hit that even sooner (only 3 pounds to go to triple!). But their daddy is 6'3" also (6'4" if he feels like fudging it or if his curly hair is seriously grown out), his brother is only an inch or two shorter, and both of my parents are 6 foot (mom is just a hair under 6 foot). At 5'8", I'm the shrimp of my family, although well over the average height for women.

As for all of his eating, 4K is absolutely right. If he's overfed, he'll vomit, and boy howdy will you know when it's the real deal! You're doing absolutely the right thing by going at his pace. Given his age, the most likely thing is that he's having a growth spurt.

FWIW, Khaled at 3.5 months (we were off for his first 9 months for some reason) was 25 inches, 13 pounds 6 ounces. Saleh was 23.25 inches, 12 pounds 11 ounces at 2 months and 27 inches, 16 pounds 5 ounces at 4. There's some pretty major growing done around that time. I made a chart in Excel and keep the boys' growth side by side. If this trend continues, Saleh's going to be ENORMOUS compared to his big brother. [Smile]

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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The more I think about it, the more I feel drawn to adopting a waiting child. I would love to adopt a 9 month-2 year old kid one day. The idea of a precious baby not having a home because people would rather have newborns makes me so sad, and also it makes me sad that some waiting children suffer from attachment disorder and other mental issues because of their treatment. Giving even just one of those kids a loving home would be good.

Just expressing my current thoughts on the subject.

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Officially Heartless

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I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by ThistleSoftware:
The more I think about it, the more I feel drawn to adopting a waiting child. I would love to adopt a 9 month-2 year old kid one day. The idea of a precious baby not having a home because people would rather have newborns makes me so sad, and also it makes me sad that some waiting children suffer from attachment disorder and other mental issues because of their treatment. Giving even just one of those kids a loving home would be good.

Just expressing my current thoughts on the subject.

Thistles, I think it's great that you are thinking of adopting an older waiting child. But there's nothing wrong with people adopting newborns, if that's who they feel comfortable and equipped to bring into their family.

Also, just so you know, waiting children under the age of 6 in CPS have no trouble getting adopted. The waiting children available for adoption are mostly over 6, sibling groups and/or severely disabled kids. The wait is shorter for a bi-racial toddler than for a white infant, but it's not like there's a warehouse full of toddlers and people are turning them down for healthy infants.

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Auntie Witch
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I called the dentist today. The lady was very nice (one of those small offices where the receptionist is the assistant is the dentist's wife [Wink] ) and said that if she didn't have signs of trauma, pain, looseness, or an abscess above it, not to worry. She felt the same way I did: she didn't want Rina's first visit to the dentist to be traumatic. FWIW, it is nowhere near the picture AnglRdr posted. The only way I can really think to describe it as the color of a soft-light lightbulb: a pale greyish that definitely stands out from the bright white of her other teeth, but not very dark. They said if she had other symptoms or it got really dark, bring her in, but otherwise, just keep an eye on it.

Thanks for all the advice and replies! I'm hoping it's nothing. I did think flouride at first because she will get ahold of the toothpaste if we don't watch her close enough. That's why I googled in the first place, and then that info freaked me out a bit.

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October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month!
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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro:
- all of a sudden, it's like we can't feed him enough!

Definitely a growth spurt, then. No worries!

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by ThistleSoftware:
The more I think about it, the more I feel drawn to adopting a waiting child. I would love to adopt a 9 month-2 year old kid one day. The idea of a precious baby not having a home because people would rather have newborns makes me so sad, and also it makes me sad that some waiting children suffer from attachment disorder and other mental issues because of their treatment. Giving even just one of those kids a loving home would be good.

Just expressing my current thoughts on the subject.

I'm not sure why you would think there is a surplus of older babies/toddlers out there waiting to be adopted but as Kismet said this is simply not the case. If you feel a need to adopt a child who might otherwise not be adopted your best option might be to consider a special needs child. Alternatively you could consider adopting a girl from China - personally this is what I would do if I were considering adding to my family, but I realise that's not an option for everyone.

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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mouse goddess
We Three Blings


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AW reminded me....
When did ya'll have your kids' first dentist visits?? I'm hearing different things. Some dentists I've called say 1yo, some say 2 and some say not until 3.
I don't want to go at 3 and have them say, "oh, you should have come earlier!"

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"this could increase your brain power, or it could kill you..." "Increase my killing power, ehh???"

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Aud
We Three Blings


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The ADA recommends the first visit by age one.
Their statement on early childhood dental care is here
http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/positions/statements/caries.asp
(It's their official position paper so it reads a little dry but it's to the point.)

The number of children up for adoption varies by area. If you are considering adoption ThistleSoftware make sure you find out the rules and opportunities where you live.
We know two couples who adopted young sibling groups. That seems to work out well for them and is what my hubby and I were considering when we got that fateful phone call.

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus:
quote:
Originally posted by ThistleSoftware:
The more I think about it, the more I feel drawn to adopting a waiting child. I would love to adopt a 9 month-2 year old kid one day. The idea of a precious baby not having a home because people would rather have newborns makes me so sad, and also it makes me sad that some waiting children suffer from attachment disorder and other mental issues because of their treatment. Giving even just one of those kids a loving home would be good.

Just expressing my current thoughts on the subject.

Thistles, I think it's great that you are thinking of adopting an older waiting child. But there's nothing wrong with people adopting newborns, if that's who they feel comfortable and equipped to bring into their family.

Also, just so you know, waiting children under the age of 6 in CPS have no trouble getting adopted. The waiting children available for adoption are mostly over 6, sibling groups and/or severely disabled kids. The wait is shorter for a bi-racial toddler than for a white infant, but it's not like there's a warehouse full of toddlers and people are turning them down for healthy infants.

I wasn't trying to imply that there's anything wrong with adopting newborns. Just that the idea of other kids not getting adopted makes me sad.

Thanks for the information. I have not done all the research that I plan to since if and when I adopt it won't be for many years.

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Officially Heartless

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Christie:
quote:
Originally posted by ThistleSoftware:
The more I think about it, the more I feel drawn to adopting a waiting child. I would love to adopt a 9 month-2 year old kid one day. The idea of a precious baby not having a home because people would rather have newborns makes me so sad, and also it makes me sad that some waiting children suffer from attachment disorder and other mental issues because of their treatment. Giving even just one of those kids a loving home would be good.

Just expressing my current thoughts on the subject.

I'm not sure why you would think there is a surplus of older babies/toddlers out there waiting to be adopted but as Kismet said this is simply not the case. If you feel a need to adopt a child who might otherwise not be adopted your best option might be to consider a special needs child. Alternatively you could consider adopting a girl from China - personally this is what I would do if I were considering adding to my family, but I realise that's not an option for everyone.
I thought that because I had read some information on adopting waiting children and it seemed to imply that there were many children above the age of infancy waiting to be adopted. It didn't really say what age range had the most waiting children, though, so it was an assumption on my part that some of them might be toddlers.

I feel as though people are being a tad confrontational in their responses to my post. I appreciate any new information, but I hope you folks don't think I'm an idiot or being judgemental. I don't know that much about any of this yet because I'm only 24 and I just started thinking about adopting less than a year ago. A six year old or a special needs kid might end up being who I adopt after all, or maybe I will end up fostering. I know parenting is a sensitive subject but I hope you'll cut me some slack for not knowing anything yet. If I'm just being oversensitive then I apologize.

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Officially Heartless

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I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Thistles, I apologize if my post seemed confrontational. Your message hit a nerve for me, and my response was more to that idea than your particular post. If you do adopt one day, be prepared for everyone and their dog to feel free to tell you who it's ok for you to adopt. I personally explored all my options and decided to adopt a domestic caucasian infant, although I ended up giving birth before I ever qualified for the social worker visit to adopt.

And I heard quite a few comments in response to that along the lines of "Well, there are older children waiting, if IIII couldn't have children I'd adopt a waiting child instead of selfishly taking a white infant." I'm sure that's not how you meant it, but your post reminded me of that.

Strangely, since I got pregnant with a white infant and gave birth, not one person has told me I am selfish. Apparently only the infertile have a social responsibility to take on the unwanted children, whether prepared to be good parents in face of their added difficulties or not.

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus:
Strangely, since I got pregnant with a white infant and gave birth, not one person has told me I am selfish. Apparently only the infertile have a social responsibility to take on the unwanted children, whether prepared to be good parents in face of their added difficulties or not.

I conceived my first child with the help of a fertility drug. It was incredible to me how many people felt they had a perfect right to criticize this - apparently I was selfish for not rushing out and adopting an older child (ideally damaged in some unspecified way)* or was going "against God's will" - depending on who was doing the criticizing.

I am convinced there is nothing women do that they will not be criticized for - but pregnancy and all issues baby-related seem to be particularly open season.

* and oddly, none of the people pointing out my shallow selfishness have themselves gone on to adopt. Hmmm....

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Oh yeah, while I was using fertility drugs AND researching adoption of a white infant, I was the most selfish person on the planet. And everyone who had a comment seemed to have young white children, but that was ok because they made them themselves.
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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Christie and Kismet- I'm sorry if my post seemed judgemental. I really just wanted to explain my feelings about adopting, and it was absolutely not intended to be a criticism of others who want different things.

Personally part of the reason I would rather adopt any child than give birth is that I feel an aversion to growing a fetus inside of me. I'm sure many people would judge me for that, so far be it from me to judge others for their choices. As long as you love your kid and aren't doing anything illegal it is not up to me to judge how you got him or her.

Again, thanks for pointing out where I've been mis-assuming. Of course I have a lot to learn and I will be doing a LOT more research if and when I do attempt to adopt.

ETA: I think the part of my post that hit a nerve was this: "The idea of a precious baby not having a home because people would rather have newborns makes me so sad." I can see why it would- there's an implication that to those who would rather adopt newborns, the other kids are not precious. That is not what I believe and I'm sorry to have implied it. All kids are precious, and that any would go without loving homes is sad to me, whatever the reason. It is also not my place to judge those who want newborns because I myself would really like a toddler, and would consider sitting on a waiting list for years to adopt one. Anyway, hopefully all is well that ends well as far as this conversation goes.

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Officially Heartless

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Zorro
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I got this letter yesterday from a children's modeling agency in this area, saying that our child has come to their attention, blah blah blah. While I think Frank is simply the Cutest Child Ever, I freely admit I may be a wee bit biased. What disturbs me, though, is that this letter does not say where they got my name from. I'm thinking of calling them and finding out.

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"Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!"
-John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"

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Auntie Witch
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro:
I got this letter yesterday from a children's modeling agency in this area, saying that our child has come to their attention, blah blah blah. While I think Frank is simply the Cutest Child Ever, I freely admit I may be a wee bit biased. What disturbs me, though, is that this letter does not say where they got my name from. I'm thinking of calling them and finding out.

Please, by no means take this the wrong way, but are you sure it's not junk mail?

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"Feel my head! I feel like a puppy!" -My mother
October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month!
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Gibbie
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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It's a scam. No offense Zorro because your kid is cute, but they have simply purchased your name from the hospital or somewhere else and are sending you a mass mailing. Modeling agencies don't contact you cold, you have to seek out them. If you contact them you'll go in, they'll effuse over him, tell you how much money he can make and they'll make it happen, all you have to do is buy photos from them. Toss it out. [Smile]

Gibbie

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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Zorro
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Oh, I wasn't going to take them up on it. I looked at their website, and they actually have the kids' pictures displayed! [Eek!] I just want to know who gave them my name, so I know who to ream out.

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"Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!"
-John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"

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Gibbie
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Hard to tell. Most likely the hospital. They sell your name every where. I got all kinds of solicitations geared to new parents. Could also be any parenting magazines you may have subscribed to or any information you gave out while you were pregnant. Lots of places to get your info.

Gibbie

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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Hastings
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I don't know whether this is an appropriate post for this thread. If not, please accept my apologies.

Basically, I've become more and more clear over the last few years that I'd really prefer to adopt a child.

Mr. Hastings wants to have a genetic child.

I don't have the urge to get pregnant, I don't have the urge to... well, be pregnant.

I do want to have at least one child.

I don't know how we can get out of this stalemate. We both want kids, but the situation seems impossible.

Have any of you been through this?

Again, apologies if this isn't the right place to discuss this.

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the Virgin Marrya
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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not that it's NOT an appropriate place to post/discuss it, but you would probably get a broader response from starting a new topic for it.

You might get more flamey stuff [from either side], too tho...

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Windows cannot open this file. To open this file correctly, defenestrate, then try running the file again...

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Auntie Witch
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Hastings, I would suggest that the two of you sit down and each list your reasons for and against each option, and then discuss them. While it does seem impossible now, you might be able to reach a conclusion together or at least better understand why each of you feels the way you do. FWIW, I don't think your situation is that impossible. It's harder when one of you wants kids and the other doesn't. At least you've got a bit of common ground to start with.

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"Feel my head! I feel like a puppy!" -My mother
October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month!
Myspace about my mom, kids

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Arrow-Tech IV
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Hastings:
I don't have the urge to get pregnant, I don't have the urge to... well, be pregnant.

I was always afraid of pregnancy, actually, and spent most of my formative years (until about 21) telling my sister that she was going to have to have my baby for me. The very idea of being unwieldy, nausea and "labor" scared me. It seemed quite unfair that men didn't have to go through all of that.

However, I did want to have a child and, much like going to the doctor's office and getting a shot, I discovered that sometimes a bit of pain in the beginning is much easier than avoiding that initial pain and suffering later. What I mean is that the process of actually having a baby is MUCH less expensive and onerous than jumping through the legal hoops of the dangled POSSIBLITY of a child.

To be more succinct, if you get pregnant and have a baby, you'll actually have a baby. If you get on an open adoption list, at least in the US, the birth mother can come back and reclaim her baby up to 60 days after the adoption.

If you decide to adopt from someplace like China, the current wait is fourteen months from when your paperwork is finalized. The cost is over $20,000 -- up front. On top of that, the one couple that I know well who adopted from China discovered that their eleven month old had been tied down to her bed, in order to prevent her from rolling over or standing up because the caretaker-to-infant ratio was 30 infants: 1 caretaker. The little girl is two now and has had severe antibiotic-resistant ear infections (common in China) and has had to have special speech therapy sessions. She also seems to have an attachment disorder (which makes sense, given that she had virtually no eye contact or adult interaction during the first eleven months of life).

quote:
Originally posted by Hastings:
I do want to have at least one child.

I don't know how we can get out of this stalemate. We both want kids, but the situation seems impossible.

I agree that you need to make a list. Look at your resources and your options and do real research. Decide on a time frame. When do you want to have a child? How much money do you have to invest in the process? How easily can you adopt?
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Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Hastings, I don't know how to advise you any better than AW and Arrow have done. I agree that getting pregnant yourself is going to possibly have less waiting and definitely have more permanence (in terms of bio parents coming back to take the baby away) than adopting.

That said, I've always viewed pregnancy as a means to an end. I wanted kids, and getting pregnant was the easiest way to get them. My first pregnancy, apart from morning sickness, was a breeze. The second one really took it out of me. There will NOT be a third child unless God gets involved.

Now, it's not that I think there is any sort of superiority attached to genetic children. Some people just HAVE to have children that are genetically linked to them or else... I dunno... they think they can't love the children or something? *shrug* But there are also plenty of children out there who need a loving home. So I can see both sides of it, even tho I hold my own view.

Having your own kids is just plain easier. But that's not to say it's the only way of getting the job done.

It's definitely something you need to have a real discussion with your husband about. None of that childish, "I want our own kids, not someone else's kids," "Well I don't WANNA get pregnant," thing. An honest discussion. A list will help you enumerate the points each of you want to make. But it's not one of those things where the person who can make the most points wins. There needs to be a real meeting of the minds, maybe a little compromise, and a mutual decision being made... or else it's only going to lead to hostility/resentment down the line.

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They just don't make crazed, beserk robots like they used to. --Sheen Estevez, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius

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Posts: 2486 | From: East Stroudsburg, PA | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Aud
We Three Blings


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Hastings - my husband also wanted a child that we had conceived. However, there's never been a daddy more wrapped around his daughter's little finger like him and Little_Aud. If your husband is afraid he can't love a child that doesn't carry his genes resassure him that he can and will.
If he really wants his genetic material to carry on and you don't want to be pregnant then you might be able to do a surrogacy arrangement.

Arrow-tech - The rights of a birth parents vary by state. In MO their rights end when they sign the paperwork. That's it unless they can prove they were coerced. Also, two of the couples I know who adopted sibling groups got custody very soon after they finished the home study. I know what you are trying to do for Hastings but I feel obligated to make sure incorrect adoption information is addressed.

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Loyhargil
We Three Blings


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Hastings,
You're getting really good advice here. I only have a tad bit to add, if it helps any on discussing things with your husband.

Failed adoptions are harsh. I worked with a woman once who had four failed adoptions, and several years later, is still waiting. I also saw my best friend suffer a failed adoption, after they traveled across several states and bonded with who they thought would be their son for several days.

In the end, they were lucky. About 2 1/2 years from the time they filed with the private adoption agency, they got a call out of the blue that a baby had just been born one state away and the birth mother chose them as parents. They only had to come up with nearly $20,000 in a few days to get the process rolling. It was harsh, but a short-term loan and a couple of court dates later, and they came home with their "meant-to-be" baby girl.

They went through a lot of waiting (although certainly not as much as some) and quite frankly a lot of expense for a baby that they technically didn't even know was coming. That little girl has also been worth every bit of effort, she's a beautiful, joyful addition to their lives. But adoption can be a very emotionally and financially taxing prospect.

Now I have one grade schooler, and a baby on the way. I can honestly say I don't entirely enjoy being pregnant and I HATE childbirth. I'm 7 1/2 weeks along, and if I could hook up the freaking epidural now, I would. Last pregnancy, I threw up the entire 9 months, had aggravated arthritis and anemia, and was generally miserable. Plus, I'm a worrier, and pregnancy gives you SO much to worry about. I have 2 autistic nephews, that's half of my parents' current grandchildren, so I'm already bracing myself for that potential, plus a hereditary kidney disease, plus God knows what else.

But I know that next August, I'm going to have that little person in my arms, and that makes the discomfort and worry worth it.

Regardless of how you have your child, you will love her/him. Just be prepared emotionally, physically, and financially for the process either way. Neither way is easy or secure. But if you want a child and will love that child, either way is totally worth it.

Edited to fix typos, although I'm sure I didn't catch them all.

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Bender: Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee.

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Hastings:
I don't know whether this is an appropriate post for this thread. If not, please accept my apologies.

Basically, I've become more and more clear over the last few years that I'd really prefer to adopt a child.

Mr. Hastings wants to have a genetic child.

I don't have the urge to get pregnant, I don't have the urge to... well, be pregnant.

I do want to have at least one child.

I don't know how we can get out of this stalemate. We both want kids, but the situation seems impossible.

Have any of you been through this?

Again, apologies if this isn't the right place to discuss this.

As others have touched on it may make a difference to your hopes for adoption if you have very specific criteria about the kind of child you want to adopt. If you are looking for a newborn it may be years before you could adopt and (correct me if I am wrong people!) healthy young couples who could have their own biological child are going to be pretty far down on the list of prospective adoptive parents. At least that has always been my understanding of how things work!

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Question:

If you had a three year old kid and you were out shopping and he had to go number two and kept saying so, but the only bathroom available was one that did not meet your minimum hygiene standard, what would you do?

I do not have a "right" answer in mind, FYI. I'm not a parent but a parent was telling me about her holiday shopping travails and mentioned this incident. She didn't say what she did so I'm wondering what most parents would do in such a situation.

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Officially Heartless

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by ThistleSoftware:
Question:

If you had a three year old kid and you were out shopping and he had to go number two and kept saying so, but the only bathroom available was one that did not meet your minimum hygiene standard, what would you do?

I do not have a "right" answer in mind, FYI. I'm not a parent but a parent was telling me about her holiday shopping travails and mentioned this incident. She didn't say what she did so I'm wondering what most parents would do in such a situation.

How minimal are her standards I wonder? I've had to make do with some primitive primitive, not to mention dowright dirty bathrooms over the years. If the only choice is waiting til we get home and hoping my kid didn't poop his pants I think I'd have to compromise!

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by ThistleSoftware:
Question:

If you had a three year old kid and you were out shopping and he had to go number two and kept saying so, but the only bathroom available was one that did not meet your minimum hygiene standard, what would you do?

Unless I could get the child to another bathroom very very quickly (say, by abandoning the shopping trip and going straight home), I would let him use the bathroom and do whatever I could do/had to do to clean him up afterward.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I don't know what her standards are but she was talking about the restroom at Marshall's. I suspect they are pretty high standards.

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Officially Heartless

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I've often wondered how people with very high standards for such things handle being parents, precisely because of situations like the one you mention.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Aud
We Three Blings


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I was once in one of those temporary holiday stores. It was a bookshop set up in an otherwise unoccupied storefront. Their bathroom was way beyond icky and they didn't care since they'd only be there another week. I've used jonny-on-the-spots and latrines with no problem but this place....
Anyway, if it were ever that bad I'd find another store or even a fast food place.

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