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Author Topic: Wiccans, breeders, and halloween
Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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It's also not completely fair to say that it was targeted at women. In some places, it was, but in other places, men and even children were just as likely to be targeted. In some cases, Jews and other minorities were singled out for witchcraft accusations.

This site has some information on the witch hunts:
http://www.shanmonster.com/witch/index.html

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/Troberg

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Dr. Dave
Frosty the Pitchman


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Many Christians look at Easter as a "New Year" of sorts. They rip unborn chicken babies away from their mothers, paint the unborn babies (!) and throw them on the ground.

Jewish people consider "Rosh Hashana" their New Year. Some still take live chickens, swing them around by their feet, then sacrifice them. OK, that is only done by a small proportion of Jews, but 90% of Jews take a slaughtered chicken, or cow, or both, and serve it at a festive meal. Then, in April, these same Jewish people have another New Year and serve another slaughtered chicken or cow, sometimes two nights in a row.

-Dr. "At least we don't throw live lobsters in boiling water" Dave

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kch8021
I Saw Three Shipments


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Many Wiccans look at Halloween as their "New Year" and many sects do sacrificial offerings - both humans and animals. They have women whose only job is to have children so that their children can be sacrifices.
-------------------------

I have many Wiccan friends! I attend what is known as "The Anti-Christ Church", I am a Unitarian Universalist!!!

We celebrate Samhain, the winter and summer solstices. We also celebrate Christmas and Yule.

The Wiccan Creed is "Do no Harm", if they are doing sacrifices I would know about it. All religious holidays began as Pagan Holidays so get a grip!

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liebeslied
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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UUs truck with the AntiChrist now? Thats eschatolicious!

There are nasty cults out there, but I bet most of them play at being Christian. Easier to recruit gullible people if they think you're part of the "in" group.

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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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quote:
Originally posted by liebeslied:
UUs truck with the AntiChrist now? Thats eschatolicious!

Actually, the AntiChrist's truck hasn't been welcome at UU services since he hung a pair of those ridiculous plastic testicles on it.

Nonny

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When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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Cat Grey
Happy Holly Days


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...And the smell of brimstone when it backfires... whew!

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"Beer assuages grief. No one tells you that." ~Arrow-Tech IV

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magpie
Deck the Malls


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Here's the Chick tract that ties together Halloween, Satan, druids, witches, and human sacrifice all together:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0058/0058_01.asp

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Nion
We Three Blings


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Just had to throw my hat in the ring.

Speaking as a Wiccan, what has already been said is absolutely true. I don't harm anything, let alone anyone. To do so would go against everything I believe in. That includes the Threefold Return rule and the Wiccan creed: "An if it hurt none, do as ye will." I'd say killing someone would probably hurt someone.

*sigh* A large number of Christians seem to demonize Wiccans. A small number of true* Wiccans seem to demonize Christians. Who appears to be more righteous in their actions?

*Those who care about Wicca, and not emo/goth kids and crazy/"fluffy" people.

Relic "Wicker" Man

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It can't rain all the time.

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Felessan
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by magpie:
Here's the Chick tract that ties together Halloween, Satan, druids, witches, and human sacrifice all together:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0058/0058_01.asp

The really funny thing is, somewhere on the hard copy, it read, "based on a true story" (or similar). OMG...

Another Chick tract, "The Good Little Witch" (not on the Chick site, for some reason) had the breeder motif, and claimed that 50,000 - 60,000 human sacrifices were performed each year in the US. The breeder myth probably grew out of the need to provide enough humans for sacrifice, as there weren't enough missing people to cover the figure given.

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You fool! That's not a warrior, that's a banana!
- a surreal moment in a role-playing game

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moonfall86
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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My roommate claims her uncle is a former Satanist. He told her that they used to kidnap and sacrifice a Christian virgin every Halloween, though none of us were able to figure out how they actually knew said girl is a virgin or not.

My housemates don't seem to understand why I don't take Satanism very seriously.

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charlie23
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Jack Chick is hilarious in a really sick and twisted way. Thanks for the link.
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RLobinske
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Noemi:
quote:
Originally posted by Minstrel Nereid:
Some of Easter's symbolism, yes. But the placement of Easter was also based on the end of Passover, which has been held in the spring for thousands of years, regardless of the Germanic celebrations of the Lady Ostara.

Dang, I got beat to the discussion of the origins of Easter. [Smile] I do want to touch on the mention of Lady Ostara. I think if anything the idea of the Lady Ostara is a neo-pagan idea rather than being Germanic. Jacob Grimm proposed that Ostara might be the name of a Germanic goddess there isn't any solid proof of that. It is thought that he may have based Ostara on an Anglo-Saxon goddess Eostre, but the only source for her is the Venerable Bede who was writing long after the arival of Christianity so it's hard to say if his information was accurate. There is nothing in the actual lore about a Germanic (or Norse) goddess named Ostara so we're left with two secondary sources (or possible a secondary and a tertiary source) on her.

Noemi "heathen nitpicker"

A little more, the Oxford English Dictionary records Bede's use of Eostre as the Northumbrian version of the standard Old English Eastre. The use appears in association with his description of the non-Christian Anglo-Saxon calender. The fourth month was know as Eostremonaš and named for an observance the otherwise undescribed goddess, Eostre. He recorded that the observance had fallen into disuse long before, but the Northumbrians has started to use the term to describe the Christian holiday. Also contrary to some of the versions going around, Eostre/Eastre would not be pronounced the same as Easter.

As far as I have found, there is no recorded Scandanavian version of the goddess.

On the point of Christians adopting the Eostre/Eastre observation as Easter, you need to stop and think about timing and geography. The Easter observance is one of the oldest and most important events in the Christian calender. So, why would the early, first century Christians in the western Mediterranean basin, "borrow" an obscure observance from a culture that they had almost no contact with, outside of possibly some Roman legion auxillaries? Also, if they did "borrow" the observance, why is English about the only language that uses a variant of that name? Most other European languages use a variant of Passover for the observance. A few examples:
Greek = Pascha
French = Paques
Portuguese = Pascoa
Italian = Pasqua
Spanish = Pascuas

ETA: typo correction
ETA: another typo correction

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MaxKaladin
The First USA Noel


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The more things change...

I am reminded of all the things that were said about the early Christians. Things about human sacrifice, cannibalism...

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Not to mention that Christianity is a threat to the family because of its emphasis on the virtues of chastity and celibacy. If celibacy is held as an ideal, then it will discourage people from marriage!
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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
Not to mention that Christianity is a threat to the family because of its emphasis on the virtues of chastity and celibacy. If celibacy is held as an ideal, then it will discourage people from marriage!

Come again?

Chastity isn't emphasised, rather chastity outside of marriage.

And celibacy is entirely a Catholic priest and nun thing.

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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Cat Grey
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Richard W:
[qb] And celibacy is entirely a Catholic priest and nun thing.

I thought the Apostle Paul was pretty clear that celibacy was the ideal to which everyone should aspire, but if you really felt you couldn't live up to that... well, a monogamous marriage was inferior, but acceptable.

Ah, there it is: I Corinthians 7. (You can change which version you're reading using the dropdown at the top of the page.)

Cat "sola scriptura" Grey

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"Beer assuages grief. No one tells you that." ~Arrow-Tech IV

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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That was one of the original Roman objections to Christianity, I believe...
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Nick Theodorakis
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by RLobinske:
...
Greek = Pasha
...

Nitpick (prolly another typo): it's Pascha, not Pasha. (Πασχα). The "s" and the "ch" are pronounced seperately (the ch is a "chi" and pronounced "hard.") Also, the word in Greek is the very same Greek word used for "Passover." But you make a good point.

Nick

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RLobinske
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Theodorakis:
quote:
Originally posted by RLobinske:
...
Greek = Pasha
...

Nitpick (prolly another typo): it's Pascha, not Pasha. (Πασχα). The "s" and the "ch" are pronounced seperately (the ch is a "chi" and pronounced "hard.") Also, the word in Greek is the very same Greek word used for "Passover." But you make a good point.

Nick

Thanks for the correction.
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Barbara R.
Deck the Malls


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That Chick tract, "BOO," is hilarious! Satan plays Pumpkinhead with a chainsaw and massacres his own worshippers! (Inspired by "Texas Chainsaw Massacre"?)

By the way, nowhere in the Bible does it say that Satan rebelled against God by trying to dethrone Him. In Isaiah 14:3-20 it speaks of the king of Babylon. The name "Lucifer" did not appear until the fourth century when Jerome translated the Bible from its original Hebrew and Greek to Latin. The Hebrew for "Day Star" was translated into Latin as "Lucifer." Eventually this developed into an early medieval myth because Christians needed an explanation for where Satan originated since God created everything. Therefore God had to have created this Satan. But God cannot created anything or anyone evil. So the Lucifer rebelled, was cast out, and became Satan myth became accepted as essential doctrine.

Also, Revelation 12 speaks of the Dragon, (Satan) being cast out of Heaven by the archangel Michael. Originally Michael was the defender of the Jews--God's chosen people--but later became the defender of the Church. Satan is referred to as the "accuser of the brethren." This casting out symbolizes that God's people will no longer be falsely accused before God.

Barbara R.

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Ink Rose
Deck the Malls


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Pshaw. Stupid Wiccans. My christian friends have killed waaaaay more goats and children for our god then you have. We are so gonna beat you, even our bible likes sacrifices. And we have no trouble with killing people, unlike your wimpy code.
[/End EXTREME and waaaay out of line sarcasm]

Okay yeah that was kind of a mean stab at christians, but I figure you'd get the joke seeing as most of you snopsters are smart fellows and would realize that I was only poking fun of the crazed fundies not Christians in general. I think it's hilarious that pCms seem to like trying to play pin the human sacrifice on the Wiccans when the whole creed pretty much eliminates the possibility, unlike the Bible. Y'know, seeing as Christians like ignoring the commandments when it suits them.

Seriously, though...
I remember reading on one .org (a reliable site) that the best way to discourage Satiantic practices was to take a misguided teen and force him to stick with the actual rule book of the Satanists. The sheer boredom and lack of orgies and human sacrifices was the best medicine.

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Website: http://stu.aii.edu/~krm184
Comic: http://elfhome.keenspace.com

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Nick Theodorakis
We Three Blings


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[nevermind, I think I misunderstood. Mods please delete]

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Don't forget to register for the New ULMB.

Announcement here

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Cat Grey
Happy Holly Days


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I'm still waiting to hear whether Towknie dropped the {AC/DC-video games-gay marriage-Dungeons and Dragons-Satanic Founders of Frisco} meme into the conversation, and (if so) how it turned out.

Unless - ::gasp!:: Towknie was this year's sacrifice!

Cat "Say it isn't so!" Grey

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"Beer assuages grief. No one tells you that." ~Arrow-Tech IV

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Towknie
We Three Blings


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With the passing of Halloween, came the passing of a Frisco smoking ban imposed by the city council in an unannounced meeting. This has taken over the local message boards with smokers being newly minted as worse than any baby sacrificing pagans. Maybe I could convince them that AC/DC influenced me when I was young, and said I had to either take up smoking or start killing babies. I chose that which I believed to be the lesser of two evils at the time, and was apparently mistaken.

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Towknie: Ryda-certified as wonderful, enlighted, and rational.

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Jonny T
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by kch8021:
All religious holidays began as Pagan Holidays so get a grip!

They what now?

Please define "pagan" in the context of the above quote.

--------------------
Hello, I love you - won't you tell me your name?
Hello! I'm good for nothing - will you love me just the same?

Greetings from the dark side...

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kch8021
I Saw Three Shipments


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http://www.sabbatarian.com/Paganism/PaganHolidays.html

This is where I found good information.

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Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by kch8021:
http://www.sabbatarian.com/Paganism/PaganHolidays.html

This is where I found good information.

Wow. There is so much misinformation and utter crap on that site, I don't know where to begin to debunk it all.

Well, to start:
quote:
All information presented here was gleaned from historical documents, encyclopedias, and actual pagan websites on the pagan Ariadne Spider Search Engine. After all, who knows pagans better than professing pagans?
Oooh, wow. They took information from actual pagan websites! I'm in awe of their flawless research techniques. And of all their inaccurate mythology. [fish]

--------------------
"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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evilrabbit
Jingle Bell Hock


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How do you tell what gods a website worships? Do pagan websites wear little witch hats? Cause that would be sweet.

--------------------
"My sandwich choice is uncertain, until I actually order. It's like Schrodinger's Sandwich."
"Is plutonium involved in this sandwich in any way?"
"Maybe."

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Noemi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
quote:
Originally posted by kch8021:
http://www.sabbatarian.com/Paganism/PaganHolidays.html

This is where I found good information.

Wow. There is so much misinformation and utter crap on that site, I don't know where to begin to debunk it all.
The Yule information is so bad I can't even think of where to start. I love the bit about Paleopagans decorating trees. For one, that practice can only reliably be traced back to the practices of the northern European heathens and two, exactly what the heck are Paleopagans? Was there a monlithic religion that far back they were outside of? Or if you look at the original meaning of pagan, how could they be rustic county folk before there were cities?

And they repeat the stuff on Ostara that RLobinske and I have already addressed.

Noemi

--------------------
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
My blog, no guarantees about witty or intelligent content. My current projects.
Coveted Beads <---- our eBay store, new items being added somewhat regularly

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Jonny T
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Note: Tuatha De Danann is the Irish title for the ancient "Tribe of Dan," which was (is) supposed to be one of the original twelve tribes of Israel (Jacob). The Dannites named every place they conquered after Dan (Jacob's and Rachel's first born) as was their custom. However, it was not their custom to designate specific vowels; only the specific consonants of "D" and "N" were used. The "D" always preceded the "N" with any vowel or no vowel in between. Additionally the Dannites were a warrior tribe (1 Chronicles 12:35), and seamen (Judges 5:17). This could explain how some of them managed to escape from the Assyrians and relocate to Ireland at the time Israel was conquered.

The following places in Ireland appear to be the areas of conquest by the Dannites: Danslaugh, Dansower, Dundalk, Donegal (bay and city), Dungloe, Dingle, and Dunsmor.

Additionally, the following places appear to be other areas of conquest outside of Ireland: The rivers named Dnieper, Dniester, and Don. The Danish people, and the city named Denmark.

[lol]

nice to see the usual Mithras stories trotted out...

glancing through the site it appears to be one of the "honour Jesus but he wasn't the Messiah/Son of God" type dealies with a fairly transparent agenda to paint mainstream Christianity as "pagan"; as such I'm not particularly inclined to take it as an objective source.

--------------------
Hello, I love you - won't you tell me your name?
Hello! I'm good for nothing - will you love me just the same?

Greetings from the dark side...

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