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Author Topic: World's Best Divorce Letter
rsamboragal
I Saw Three Shipments


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wow. Ever hear about when people keep insisting that you have a tail, perhaps you should turn around and look to see if you have one? Guess I have one. I was wrong wrong wrong for everything I said. Please forgive me everyone for all possible grammar,spelling, and UBB etiquette mistakes I may have inadvertantly made during the course of writing this post. Amen.

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www.myspace.com/azharleydiva

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ertceps
I Saw Three Shipments


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What's black and white and red all over?

A newspaper

Reply 1
quote:
I don't read the entire paper every day are you saying I must be stupid?
Reply 2
quote:
Strictly speaking newspaper often have advertising inserts that have color pictures...are you deliberately ignoring them in a attempt to be funny? I am terribly offended at the racist implications of that joke
Reply 3
quote:
Why did you feel the need to insult Reply 1 by insinuating she/he is dumb? Does it make you feel important to pick on others?
Reply 4
quote:
I saw that so called joke many years ago and then the answer was "magazines"...all the OP did was change the answer because he/she is a racist NSFW and he/she is always trying to bring down Reply 2 in other threads
Reply 5
quote:
The OP can't even come up with an original joke...he/she must be a troll
Reply 6
quote:
What if I changed the joke so it insulted people who were left handed/right handed or young/old or smart/dumb or male/female or wore glasses/perfect vision or this country/that country or this religion/that religion or this race/that race or handicapped/handicap-able or corns on their feet/no corns or tone deaf/perfect pitch or those who like Chef Boy-R-Dee Spaghetti/but not Spaghetti-O's or the four out of five dentists who recommend sugarless gum/the other guy or ...would you still think your despicable joke was so funny?

I don't think so

Reply 7
quote:
[Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]

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JFB
Jingle Bell Hock


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Reply 8

You got the joke wrong. It's read, not red.

Doesn't lend itself well to print. Should've used the chicken/road joke.

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ertceps
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by JFB:
Reply 8

You got the joke wrong. It's read, not red.

Doesn't lend itself well to print. Should've used the chicken/road joke.

I knew that while writing it but I wanted to work in the racist angle too( I did briefly consider the fireman's red suspenders joke but by then I had most of the post wrote in my head and I didn't want to do it over)

BTW I knew someone would comment on the red VS read thing...congrats on being so quick

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rsamboragal
I Saw Three Shipments


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I'm offended by the use of the word chicken. I'm off to kick rocks.

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www.myspace.com/azharleydiva

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I can't believe that I am forced to explain my concept of humor...

I called the OP "Brilliant" because of the irony. In attempting to "dis" his ex, the story says he has done all the phenominally stupid things that guys do when breaking up with someone.

He goes on at length to show just how shallow and mysogynistic he really is... and demonstrates very admirably how stupid he is to not actually realize it.

But - I guess it is par for the course. (hurtful, snark-filled comment directed at Ryda is typed in, then cathartically deleted). No surprise at all.

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Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...

Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Go ahead, direct you nastiness at me, because I interpretted your "Brilliant" to mean just what Ryda did. And I don't think I'm the only one.

ETA: PS, I reserve the right to get nasty right back, ok?

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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LeaflessMapleTree
The twelve shopping days 'til Christmas


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1) rsamboragal, While I may disagree with Ryda often, I must say that she has conducted herself decently in this thread, while you have decended even below the realm of personal insults to the point where you are trying to make fun of Ryda's offended-ness at the OP by saying
quote:
I'm offended by the use of the word chicken. I'm off to kick rocks.
Grow up.

2) I'm going to come right out and say that I thought the OP was funny. I'm not going to try and justify why it made me laugh. Probably for the same reason jokes about Jews, Blacks, Irish, men, and dead babies all make me laugh. And the reason is...I have no idea. But I found it funny. Could have been because of how inappropriate and blatantly offensive it was on the surface. I'm perfectly able to take solace in the fact that I am a tolerant, accepting human being who treats others of all kinds/races/genders/sexual orientations/ages/religions/sizes/IQs (did I get them all? [Smile] ) with equality and respect, despite the fact that I laughed at the OP.

So while I disagree with Ryda and others' take on the OP, I also have to question why people are trying so hard to justify the OP being funny. Are you sexist? No? Good. Don't worry about the criticisms of others then. Yes? Well then there is a problem.

Do I think that laughing at something sexist/racist/whatever makes me sexist/racist/whatever? No. And if someone else thinks it does then it's their business. But really. There's no need to get upset with someone for saying the OP isn't funny. They are also entitled to their reasonable opinions.

--------------------
"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
[QUOTE]Those things aren't transgressive, at least here. They're very much in play in the culture, and a major force. They masquerade as transgressive, "Look at us naughty boys and how we degrade women. TeeHee." However, they're just the same old opinion, like, as I said, the racist and anti-immigrant jokes.

I'm quite serious in asking if you also find those funny and transgressive?

I thought I said it before:

quote:
Personnally, I'm an arch-liberal, but I can override my political or moral principles and allow myself to laugh at very incorrect things if I find them funny enough. Humour is often about transgression.
So, yes, I can laugh at very sick jokes. But they have to be witty, with an unexpected punch line. For me, political speech and humour are not put inside the same drawer.

You said "they aren't transgressive, at least here" - so I assume the corner of the planet where you live is a patriarchal society where women are systematically belittled. I can tell you that where I live, I hear much more sexist jokes about men being useless failures of the evolution that are easily replaced with a good dildo. But once again, some of these jokes are junk, and some are very well worth a good laugh.


Apparently, we really are back to the discussion about the Mohammed cartoons (which IMHO were not that funny, alas). So once and for all, here's my point of view as an "Decadent, Godless Lib'rul from Old Europe":

Is it acceptable to make jokes about anything : YES.

Should some themes be considered taboo : NO.

But holy NFBSK, they'd better be funny !

If we start tabooing stuff, some of these days someone will post a joke starting with "a guy walks into a bar..." and will get sued by an association of bartenders, one of barflys, and maybe even the Association-Of-Guys-Who-Occasionally-Walk-Into-Bars.

The difference between good and bad humour is a matter of form, not of contents. The jokes you hear in a society are a reflection of its main concerns. Regardless of opinions, they are little pieces of Zeitgeist that are quite interesting to collect. And once in while I stumble upon one and think "Whow - this one is really disgusting... but it's funny as hell".

So, dear Ryda, be offended as much as you want. I'm surely not a worse person than you are, but I reserve my ability to get offended and all of my righteous wrath for causes I consider worthwhile. Then, I'll put on my shining armour and charge on the political battleflield. And inbetween, I allow myself little relief breaks to put my socialist virtue aside and laugh at the very things I treasure.

It's healthy. It's called : not taking oneself too seriously, or: "being able to let loose and take some distance".

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Desperate, but not serious.

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LeaflessMapleTree
The twelve shopping days 'til Christmas


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quote:
It's healthy. It's called : not taking oneself too seriously, or: "being able to let loose and take some distance".
Geez, what a good idea. Ryda's never been told that before. It just might make her reconsider entirely.

Why is everyone trying to make Ryda agree that the OP was funny? It's just as bad as telling everyone who laughed at it that they're sexist.

--------------------
"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by MapleLeaf:
[QUOTE]Why is everyone trying to make Ryda agree that the OP was funny? It's just as bad as telling everyone who laughed at it that they're sexist.

No one tries to make Ryda find it funny. It's just this "I'm horribly offended by this sexist joke and you'd better be offended too or else you're a big meanie and a male chauvinist" - kind of attitude that slightly goes on my nerves.

But I don't judge Ryda for this. Maybe she has good reasons to be offended after all. A few weeks ago, I posted the famous National Lampoon cover "Buy this magazine or we'll kill this dog", and snopes got a hate mail for this. Apparently, some dog lover was deeply hurt by this picture... who knows, maybe he had good reasons too - maybe someone had shot his dog.
As I said before, it's almost impossible to make jokes without offending anyone. Especially in a time when many people definitely, positively *want* to be offended.

Anyway, this thread is turning into the proverbial storm in a glass of water. [Wink]

It's good we don't have more serious matters to argue about.

--------------------
Desperate, but not serious.

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
No one tries to make Ryda find it funny. It's just this "I'm horribly offended by this sexist joke and you'd better be offended too or else you're a big meanie and a male chauvinist" - kind of attitude that slightly goes on my nerves.

(Not entirely directed at Major D. Saster - I just picked this quote as an illustration)

Why does everybody think that analysis is meant to be taken personally?

For a start, nobody said they were "horribly offended", but even if they had, the part about everybody else having to be offended doesn't follow. I guess you read that bit into it yourself? Did Ryda's comments make you feel bad for laughing at it? If so, why? Because you felt she was mean to you, or because you thought there might have been some validity to them? Or something else?

Why can't people address the points in the first place, rather than immediately getting defensive and facilitating several pages of bickering?

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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Because we're Earthlings, not Vulcans, and many of us have the bad habit to try to emotionally read between the lines and see messages where there might be none, instead of scientifically analysing the input.

Live long and prosper.

PS: by the way, I said "kind of attitude". I was not quoting anyone.

--------------------
Desperate, but not serious.

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LeaflessMapleTree
The twelve shopping days 'til Christmas


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quote:
No one tries to make Ryda find it funny. It's just this "I'm horribly offended by this sexist joke and you'd better be offended too or else you're a big meanie and a male chauvinist" - kind of attitude that slightly goes on my nerves.
I addressed that. I think it's just as bad.

--------------------
"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
Because we're Earthlings, not Vulcans, and many of us have the bad habit to try to emotionally read between the lines and see messages where there might be none...

[lol] Which brings us neatly back to the beginning. Change your partners...
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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:


I called the OP "Brilliant" because of the irony. In attempting to "dis" his ex, the story says he has done all the phenominally stupid things that guys do when breaking up with someone.


That's why you called it brilliant? The irony? I'm not sure where the irony comes into play though. This was a stupid "joke" about a guy getting his rocks off and thinking his wife was going to be upset about it - oh and it was also filled with nasty jabs directed her way. Or was there something more subtle going on that I completely missed? Because I admit I sure don't intend to read it again.


Major D Saster opines:
quote:
So, dear Ryda, be offended as much as you want. I'm surely not a worse person than you are, but I reserve my ability to get offended and all of my righteous wrath for causes I consider worthwhile. Then, I'll put on my shining armour and charge on the political battleflield. And inbetween, I allow myself little relief breaks to put my socialist virtue aside and laugh at the very things I treasure.
Wow you sure don't like it when someone finds the "things you treasure" less than amusing do you? Interesting though how Ryda, once again, is the centre of the conflict. Many of us from Starla on down in this thread have had a problem with the "joke" yet only Ryda seems to get singled out for the anger. Yet again. Weird.

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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If it was real it would be despicable. It was a joke. It was not real. It didn't happen.

Example. In an old slapstick movie, a guy slips on a bannana peel and falls down. Funny.

If you are walking down the street in real life and a guy slips on a bannana peel, and cracks his head on the pavement - not funny.

Humour is often about pushing the boundries of taste, because we know it is not real, and therefore it is safe.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
Because we're Earthlings, not Vulcans, and many of us have the bad habit to try to emotionally read between the lines and see messages where there might be none, instead of scientifically analysing the input.

So Ryda is less than human because her response differs from yours?

Just as you have the right to find it funny without analyzing it, Ryda has the right to analyze it and not find it funny. I'm with Richard W: I don't understand why you find her analysis so troublesome.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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halibut
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Fizz:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
[fish] Nope. That's just my halibut smacking you on the head.

Kisses....

Hey, people will talk, and our bizarre halibut smacking thing will be out in the open [Big Grin]
Leave me out of this [Razz]
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Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by halibut:
Leave me out of this [Razz] [/QB]

Sorry to have to out you, Halibut. You must have known it couldn't stay secret for ever.
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halibut
Deck the Malls


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Well, it was fun while it lasted [Big Grin]
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Friends of Alfred
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by Friends of Alfred:
Genius. Utter Genius!

Wow. Your standards of genius are pretty embracing, huh?

So trite, stupid, mysogynistic, blatently hateful, emotionally abusive and low brow = Genius?


Oh, that's right. We're living in the culture where the man show was considered to be cutting edge.

Ryda "no wonder people say americans are stupid. They're right" Wong

ETB: I just realized you're a brit. Guess things don't improve across the pond.

Wow - leave the boards for a few days, and things really develop here huh?

First off Ryda, I'm Irish, not a Brit (as you so lovingly referred to the people around me), so I guess you are insulting 3 nationalities.

I think it's brilliant because Dan is clearly an asshole, and using EXACTLY the wrong tack to upset his former Wife. Add to that the brilliantly rude language, and it becomes a laugh out loud funny letter. My partner thinks so (teacher), the Woman sitting opposite to me (accountant) thinks so, my Parents think so (both professionals), as well as a large number of frineds and colleagues. So in my limited survey of people who I KNOW are not assholes, and who do not believe men are better than women, everybody could see the funny side.

You don't. Fair enough. No need to be so insulting though.

--------------------
There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

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guruwan2b
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Given that Dan and Connie aren't divorced yet, I submit my vote for the best divorce letter ever.

Connie writes to her lawyer:
Dear Sir,
Enclosed please find a written confession of my husband's sexual activities during our "cooling off period". Please add adultry to my petition for divorce.
Connie

--------------------
Too much of this navel gazing and we'll disappear up our own arses.
Danvers Carew

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Friends of Alfred
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by guruwan2b:
Given that Dan and Connie aren't divorced yet, I submit my vote for the best divorce letter ever.

Connie writes to her lawyer:
Dear Sir,
Enclosed please find a written confession of my husband's sexual activities during our "cooling off period". Please add adultry to my petition for divorce.
Connie

Genius. Utter Genius. [Wink]

--------------------
There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

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guruwan2b
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I try.

--------------------
Too much of this navel gazing and we'll disappear up our own arses.
Danvers Carew

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wee wifey
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Friends of Alfred:
My partner thinks so (teacher), the Woman sitting opposite to me (accountant) thinks so, my Parents think so (both professionals), as well as a large number of frineds and colleagues. So in my limited survey of people who I KNOW are not assholes, and who do not believe men are better than women, everybody could see the funny side.

Ah, but, FOA, have they had special feminist training? If not their opinions are, apparently, worthless.

--------------------
once known as little miss

"I don't Pretend to be an ordinary Housewife" Elizabeth Taylor

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Friends of Alfred
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by wee wifey:
quote:
Originally posted by Friends of Alfred:
My partner thinks so (teacher), the Woman sitting opposite to me (accountant) thinks so, my Parents think so (both professionals), as well as a large number of frineds and colleagues. So in my limited survey of people who I KNOW are not assholes, and who do not believe men are better than women, everybody could see the funny side.

Ah, but, FOA, have they had special feminist training? If not their opinions are, apparently, worthless.
Ah nuts. Never checked for the training. [dunce]

--------------------
There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by wee wifey:
quote:
Originally posted by Friends of Alfred:
My partner thinks so (teacher), the Woman sitting opposite to me (accountant) thinks so, my Parents think so (both professionals), as well as a large number of frineds and colleagues. So in my limited survey of people who I KNOW are not assholes, and who do not believe men are better than women, everybody could see the funny side.

Ah, but, FOA, have they had special feminist training? If not their opinions are, apparently, worthless.
Ah. This is a dig at me, because when specifically asked by wee wifey for my opinion of why Ryda's views (and my views in general) differed from those of wee wifey's friends, I ventured to suggest that perhaps years of reading theories of feminism and/or cultural studies in academia might have something to do with it (with the caveat that I didn't know whether wee wifey's friends were involved in feminist theory or not). Notice that this has now become "special feminist training" and is accompanied by the allegation, presumably also made by me (although if you look in the original thread you will, of course, find nothing of the sort) that those without said made-up special feminist training have worthless opinions.

Sad, really.

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
Because we're Earthlings, not Vulcans, and many of us have the bad habit to try to emotionally read between the lines and see messages where there might be none, instead of scientifically analysing the input.

Live long and prosper.

PS: by the way, I said "kind of attitude". I was not quoting anyone.

Perhaps a bit of analysis interjected where we use emotion for shorthand would be in order. Just a suggestion. Not that emotions don't have their place, but their place should be strictly controlled and thoughly considered. Feel whatever you want to feel, however, if there isn't a good logical basis for that feeling, perhaps it should be reconsidered.

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:

You said "they aren't transgressive, at least here" - so I assume the corner of the planet where you live is a patriarchal society where women are systematically belittled. I can tell you that where I live, I hear much more sexist jokes about men being useless failures of the evolution that are easily replaced with a good dildo. But once again, some of these jokes are junk, and some are very well worth a good laugh.

I will take your word that gender relations in Switzerland are far different than they are here. I assume you have a much lower rate of rape, battery, and poverty amoungst women, a more equal distribution of pay, more women in government and mangagement, a lower rate of eating disorders, a lack of attempted governmental control over women's reproductive health, etc., etc.

We don't. Most of the world doesn't.

However, I'd be stupid if I weren't cautious about your claim. If, indeed, gender roles were so smooth, I'd doubt jokes directed at one gender or the other would be far more scarce. Just like if race relations are smoother, there are far fewer racist jokes. Jokes often point to factors in our culture that we don't often address, hence the fact that they are indeed valid objects of analysis.


quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
If we start tabooing stuff, some of these days someone will post a joke starting with "a guy walks into a bar..." and will get sued by an association of bartenders, one of barflys, and maybe even the Association-Of-Guys-Who-Occasionally-Walk-Into-Bars.

That is one slippery slope there. Impressive.
quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:

The difference between good and bad humour is a matter of form, not of contents. The jokes you hear in a society are a reflection of its main concerns. Regardless of opinions, they are little pieces of Zeitgeist that are quite interesting to collect. And once in while I stumble upon one and think "Whow - this one is really disgusting... but it's funny as hell".

Your opinion. Not mine. I think form is far less important than content in a joke. However, if the jokes you hear are a reflection of the issues in a society, and those jokes exacerbate rather than soothe tensions, why would we want to praise them? Wouldn't we want to, perhaps, encourage humor based on individual life and experience rather than inflaming already extreme social tension?

quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:

It's healthy. It's called : not taking oneself too seriously, or: "being able to let loose and take some distance".

Or it's called being a total wimp and not standing up against mass opinion. Take your choice.

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Jay Temple
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Momentary hijack: Ryda, you're in the ballpark of my position on the relationship of logic and emotion: One wants what one wants (emotion), but the greatest opportunity to achieve it comes from thinking and acting logically.

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"Well, it looks we're on our own ... again."--Rev. Lovejoy

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:


Humour is often about pushing the boundries of taste, because we know it is not real, and therefore it is safe.

Nope. Sorry not safe. Not when directed against a group. Not when it promotes hate and strife. Not safe. I've seen jokes used to intimidate and put groups in their place more times than I can count.

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Fizz:
quote:
Originally posted by halibut:
Leave me out of this [Razz]

Sorry to have to out you, Halibut. You must have known it couldn't stay secret for ever. [/QB]
Well, and besides, it's more fun when humiliation is involved. Just wait until you see what you boys have to wear to dinner this weekend....

ETA: Please note, this is a BDSM-themed joke, in which powerplay is negogiated and controlled. It is not an attempt at truly weilding power.

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Friends of Alfred:

First off Ryda, I'm Irish, not a Brit (as you so lovingly referred to the people around me), so I guess you are insulting 3 nationalities.

See, ya get it! Random insults based on stereotypes = NOT SO FUNNY. Bing!
quote:
Originally posted by Friends of Alfred:

I think it's brilliant because Dan is clearly an asshole, and using EXACTLY the wrong tack to upset his former Wife. Add to that the brilliantly rude language, and it becomes a laugh out loud funny letter.

OK, so you read it as the man being made a laughingstock, correct? As do your buddies. This, however, to many of my buddies read it as promoting the man as clever and as mocking the reconciliation process. Basically, they read it as one of those sorta "stupid old woman, i can get hotties to NFBSK me, so you're out to the curb" things. Yes, both male and female friends.

quote:
Originally posted by Friends of Alfred:


You don't. Fair enough. No need to be so insulting though.

Refer to the above. Random group insults aren't so funny, are they?

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:

You said "they aren't transgressive, at least here" - so I assume the corner of the planet where you live is a patriarchal society where women are systematically belittled. I can tell you that where I live, I hear much more sexist jokes about men being useless failures of the evolution that are easily replaced with a good dildo. But once again, some of these jokes are junk, and some are very well worth a good laugh.

I will take your word that gender relations in Switzerland are far different than they are here. I assume you have a much lower rate of rape, battery, and poverty amoungst women, a more equal distribution of pay, more women in government and mangagement, a lower rate of eating disorders, a lack of attempted governmental control over women's reproductive health, etc., etc.

We don't. Most of the world doesn't.

However, I'd be stupid if I weren't cautious about your claim. If, indeed, gender roles were so smooth, I'd doubt jokes directed at one gender or the other would be far more scarce. Just like if race relations are smoother, there are far fewer racist jokes. Jokes often point to factors in our culture that we don't often address, hence the fact that they are indeed valid objects of analysis.


I honestly find it very difficult to believe that gender roles are as smooth in Switzerland as Major D. Saster says.

Switzerland was the last major country in Europe* to extend woman's suffrage, at 1971 for Federal Elections, and not until 1990 for some cantons.

With that in mind, I would be surprised to discover that their attitudes on gender politics are much more advanced than ours now.

I could be wrong, though. There's always that option.

*Excluding San Marino, Liechtenstein and Andorra, which are just piddly little places, and Vatican City, who only extend the suffrage in government elections to cardinals from all over the world, and the Holy Spirit.

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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