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Author Topic: World's Best Divorce Letter
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by rsamboragal:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:

And while you're at it, quote the part where Ryda insulted someone.

Okay. How about here:

"Ryda "no wonder people say americans are stupid. They're right" Wong

ETB: I just realized you're a brit. Guess things don't improve across the pond."

She called all Americans and Brits stupid in one fell swoop! Pretty impressive.

And this compares to the nasty stuff you wrote to Lainie and your hits at Ryda positively or negatively?

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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However cross Ryda may be, I do think it is a bit much to abuse the British people just because of something which FOA said.

This would be apply even if FOA were British. IIRC, he is Irish.

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Fizz:
However cross Ryda may be, I do think it is a bit much to abuse the British people just because of something which FOA said.

This would be apply even if FOA were British. IIRC, he is Irish.

... exactly, and by the way, I wonder if there would be the same hoopla had the OP been about a lady writing her ex-husband how she NFBSKed some pretty boy, the neighbour and the ex's brother (which IMO would have been equally humorous).

That's something I see again and again :

Sexist jokes making fun of men = very funny and perfectly OK.

Sexist jokes making fun of women = almost a crime against humanity.

Talk about equality.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
That's something I see again and again :

Sexist jokes making fun of men = very funny and perfectly OK.

Sexist jokes making fun of women = almost a crime against humanity.

Talk about equality.

Jokes about sexist violence against men = funny and OK

Jokes about sexist violence against women = crime against humanity

Examples:

OK joke:
Foreign aid worker returns home and tells about how family planning was important, but resources were scarce, so they just had to take to bricks, put the man's testicles between them and smash them together.
Friend asks "Doesn't that hurt?!?!"
"Not as long as you don't get your thumb between the bricks."

Not OK joke:
Q: How do you get a women to shout at you twice?
A: Shove it in the wrong hole, then wipe it on the curtains.

I'm all for equality, but I very much prefer it to be used where it matters, not as a bat to whack people over the head for tiny infractions.

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/Troberg

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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It's not that difficult to understand why; it's to do with the usual balance of power.

Strong group making fun of weak group: Nasty, mean-spirited and has all sorts of unpleasant bullying overtones.

Weak group making fun of strong group: Venting, rebalancing power, subverting stereotypes.

Basically, making fun of somebody can remove some of their power and give it to you. If you've already got the power then you don't need more, and you should find it easier to deal with some loss.

Like I said, I assumed this was fairly basic but it's odd how often people don't get it.

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:


Strong group making fun of weak group: Nasty, mean-spirited and has all sorts of unpleasant bullying overtones.

Weak group making fun of strong group: Venting, rebalancing power, subverting stereotypes.

So, if I follow your reasoning, Women = weak group.

You're right, I don't get it.

Maybe you should come to my place once. [Big Grin]

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by rsamboragal:
By the way, wouldn't life be more fun if you weren't constantly looking for people who are out to get you by saying something that might be remotely offensive?

I'm enjoying my life quite nicely, thank you.

ETA: Being offended by something does not necessarily indicate that one takes it personally. Is that really such a difficult concept to understand? And Ryda has as much right to be offended by the joke as you do to find it funny.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
So, if I follow your reasoning, Women = weak group.

I knew somebody would say that.

Yes. I'm using "power" to mean political, social or economic power. None of those are inherent characteristics of male or female people, and so it doesn't imply anything derogatory or sexist about women to say that women (as a group) tend to have less power than men (as a group), in UK society at least, and, it seems more so in US society. I can't speak for Switzerland. We might well be getting there, but we're certainly not there yet.

None of this is on the level of individuals - although I think that my point about making fun of people stronger or weaker than you still works on individuals. If you knew a man who was always bruised and he confessed that it was because his (female) partner beat him up, and then you saw her in a bar joking to her friends about smashing his testicles with a brick, I doubt you'd find it funny either.

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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
... exactly, and by the way, I wonder if there would be the same hoopla had the OP been about a lady writing her ex-husband how she NFBSKed some pretty boy, the neighbour and the ex's brother (which IMO would have been equally humorous).

I don't know about "hoopla" but the piece in the OP is sort of pathetic in that it suggests that all that matters in a marriage, maybe in the world, is sex. If a woman had written it as you suggested, it would be equally pathetic.

You're right, written by a woman it would have been equally humerous -- not at all.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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(answering to Richard W):

Excuse me, but in this case, it's almost impossible to make jokes without running the risk of hurting anyone's feelings.

Maybe it might be better to quit making jokes at all, and transform our world into the ever-smiling, ever-nice, ever-polite, ever-perfect PC nightmare (humorously) depicted in the movie "Demolition Man".

Be happy.

(answering to Sara at Home):

After 16 years of marriage, I perfectly understand what you mean.

Yet, I found the letter funny, in a naughty way. But hey, it's the NFBSK section here, not the Teletubbies.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
Excuse me, but in this case, it's almost impossible to make jokes without running the risk of hurting anyone's feelings.

Almost impossible to make jokes that are aimed at groups or individuals* without hurting anyone's feelings, yes... of course. Hadn't you noticed that yet? And whether or not any particular individual gets "hurt feelings" probably doesn't depend whether they're in the stronger or weaker group.

* (eta) when there's traditionally a power differential between the two groups

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Towknie
We Three Blings


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I found it funny. I've got two friends going through divorce right now.

The first had his wife, after deciding that she would rather go bump uglies with an old high school boyfriend, abscond with the 3 kids in the middle of the night and go into hiding leaving him to enjoy a month-long search to find her and get her into court so they could discuss custody like civil people. (He is a doting father, non-violent, doesn't drink too much, or any of the other things I know someone is going to bring up as an excuse for his wife's behavior)

The second, whose drug-addled wife discovered that she was not getting his multi-million dollar fortune because he had it before they got married, decided the best thing to do was get a court injunction to come and take away his two chihuahuas. She had to, just had to get him somehow.

When I see the nasty, bitter, vindictive things that happen in a divorce, and that both genders are indeed capable of engaging in said activities, I don't mind letting off a little mental steam by reading something like the letter in the OP.

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Towknie: Ryda-certified as wonderful, enlighted, and rational.

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Towknie:
When I see the nasty, bitter, vindictive things that happen in a divorce, and that both genders are indeed capable of engaging in said activities, I don't mind letting off a little mental steam by reading something like the letter in the OP.

This is why I find it funny, too. It's like the film "War of the Roses"... it makes you think of all the strange and vicious things people are able to do when they get divorced. I'd almost expect Danny de Vito to make some wise comment.

PS: I never got divorced myself. The ups and downs of married life are enough for my taste. But I've witnessed a few hair-raising stories, too.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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guruwan2b
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I didn't think it was funny. It wouldn't be funny if written by a woman either.

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Too much of this navel gazing and we'll disappear up our own arses.
Danvers Carew

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I'm 20th Century Fox
Happy Holly Days


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The OP may have been striving for funny, but he just comes off as objectifying women. Everything he said (about the ex, and the other women) was about physical attributes: tits, a$$, body. Nothing about personality or kindness. And the guy is either doing something TO a female or having something done TO him - it's all about HIS pleasure, not about pleasing the woman.

If you find this funny, then you probably read Playboy just for the articles.

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When my chin is on the ground I pick myself up, dust myself off and start all over again.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Towknie:

When I see the nasty, bitter, vindictive things that happen in a divorce, and that both genders are indeed capable of engaging in said activities, I don't mind letting off a little mental steam by reading something like the letter in the OP.

Disrespecting an individual is one thing. Disrespecting a group, as was done in the OP, with its stereotypically abusive depictions of sexuality and its apparent dissaproval of women who don't always serve their men, is another entirely.

Again, would you be busy defending this tripe if it were based on stereotypes of immigrants or african americans or GLTBs?

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Disrespecting an individual is one thing. Disrespecting a group... is another entirely.


But
quote:
"Ryda "no wonder people say americans are stupid. They're right" Wong

ETB: I just realized you're a brit. Guess things don't improve across the pond."


Ryda, I hope you know I like you. So please be assured that this [fish] is for your own good [Big Grin]
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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
So trite, stupid, mysogynistic, blatently hateful, emotionally abusive and low brow = Genius?

Hey! I object to that characterization. I am not stupid.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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Usually, I tend to categorise jokes as "funny" and "not funny" rather than "correct" and "incorrect".

Personnally, I'm an arch-liberal, but I can override my political or moral principles and allow myself to laugh at very incorrect things if I find them funny enough. Humour is often about transgression.

And no, I don't read Playboy.

As for the OP, it first made me just smile thinking "Oh - what a vicious bastard !"... but the more I read offended reactions and attempts at analyzing the deeper meaning of this (fictious) letter or the psychological motivations of its author, the better I find it.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Towknie
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Disrespecting an individual is one thing. Disrespecting a group, as was done in the OP, with its stereotypically abusive depictions of sexuality and its apparent dissaproval of women who don't always serve their men, is another entirely.

Again, would you be busy defending this tripe if it were based on stereotypes of immigrants or african americans or GLTBs? [/QB]

If it makes any sense, I thought of two specific individuals (both of whom are blatantly and tauntingly doing things to, and having things done by other men during the divorce process). I just couldn't help but think how upset they would be were the tables turned on them. My personal interpretation of the letter was not to disrespect a "group", but rather the two women I mentioned in my first post. Like I said, just letting off a little mental steam when reading it with two very specific people in mind.

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Towknie: Ryda-certified as wonderful, enlighted, and rational.

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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I suppose the whole My-eyes-have-opened-but-not-really bit could have been funny, but the crass generalizations and misogyny is working against the humor

I'll put this joke in the "Missed the mark" category.

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Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Fizz:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Disrespecting an individual is one thing. Disrespecting a group... is another entirely.


But
quote:
"Ryda "no wonder people say americans are stupid. They're right" Wong

ETB: I just realized you're a brit. Guess things don't improve across the pond."


Ryda, I hope you know I like you. So please be assured that this [fish] is for your own good [Big Grin]

Hey, what's good for the goose is good for the Brits.... I should have used a sarcasm thingie after that....Which one is the sarcasm thingie? This one? [fish] Nope. That's just my halibut smacking you on the head.

Kisses....

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
Usually, I tend to categorise jokes as "funny" and "not funny" rather than "correct" and "incorrect".

Personnally, I'm an arch-liberal, but I can override my political or moral principles and allow myself to laugh at very incorrect things if I find them funny enough. Humour is often about transgression.

And no, I don't read Playboy.

As for the OP, it first made me just smile thinking "Oh - what a vicious bastard !"... but the more I read offended reactions and attempts at analyzing the deeper meaning of this (fictious) letter or the psychological motivations of its author, the better I find it.

But, here's the kicker. It's not transgressive. If it was, that might be one thing. This is, quite simply, a correlary of that stupid immigrant poem my grandparents keep on sending me. It is neither novel nor clever. It is highly conservative in its perspective and retro in its ideology.

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Mistletoey Chloe
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Or funny.

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Towknie:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Disrespecting an individual is one thing. Disrespecting a group, as was done in the OP, with its stereotypically abusive depictions of sexuality and its apparent dissaproval of women who don't always serve their men, is another entirely.

Again, would you be busy defending this tripe if it were based on stereotypes of immigrants or african americans or GLTBs?

If it makes any sense, I thought of two specific individuals (both of whom are blatantly and tauntingly doing things to, and having things done by other men during the divorce process). I just couldn't help but think how upset they would be were the tables turned on them. My personal interpretation of the letter was not to disrespect a "group", but rather the two women I mentioned in my first post. Like I said, just letting off a little mental steam when reading it with two very specific people in mind. [/QB]
I can see how you would read it in that light, especially given current circumstances. However, that only illustrates why "humor" such as this is potentially damaging. Imagine it isn't wonderful, enlighted, rational you, but someone who'se grasp on gender relations isn't fully formed. Though they might read it as, on the first level, an individual battle, they'd also absorb, on another, the aggression towards women, the hatred of them when they have concerns other than their husband, and their real use as sex objects only. Fuel for the fire.

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Towknie:
When I see the nasty, bitter, vindictive things that happen in a divorce, and that both genders are indeed capable of engaging in said activities, I don't mind letting off a little mental steam by reading something like the letter in the OP.

Here's the thing: In this case, the letter only serves to support the idea that Dan is an insensitive, sex obsessed pig and that Connie can't get far enough away fast enough. The only part that would register as vindictive is the part involving her sister (is there any best friend reference? I really don't want to go back and reread it) which could have been just as effective -- more? -- if the interaction would have been that the sister invited him for dinner. Same if he had mentioned the mother as someone suggested.

Instead, this Penthouse letters format (is Penthouse still around?) only serves to make him look, as I said, pathetic and like a total loser.

If he really wants to make her mad, tell her he watched chic movies with another woman, painted another woman's house, took another woman's car for repairs, cooked another woman dinner AND cleaned the kitchen afterwards then cleaned the bathroom. That'll hit her hard.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Snowy Chloe:
Or funny.

[Confused] [Confused]

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I was trying to say:

It's not transgressive, novel, or clever.

Or funny.

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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Towknie
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Imagine it isn't wonderful, enlighted, rational you,

Ummm... Thanks for the compliment?? [Big Grin]

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Towknie: Ryda-certified as wonderful, enlighted, and rational.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Towknie:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Imagine it isn't wonderful, enlighted, rational you,

Ummm... Thanks for the compliment?? [Big Grin]
Welcome. You can make it part of your handle. Townkie: Ryda-certified as wonderful, enlighted, and rational.

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Towknie
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
]Welcome. You can make it part of your handle. Townkie: Ryda-certified as wonderful, enlighted, and rational.

Done. I couldn't think of a much more highly regarded certification in the world of Snopes.

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Towknie: Ryda-certified as wonderful, enlighted, and rational.

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
[QUOTE] But, here's the kicker. It's not transgressive. If it was, that might be one thing. This is, quite simply, a correlary of that stupid immigrant poem my grandparents keep on sending me. It is neither novel nor clever. It is highly conservative in its perspective and retro in its ideology.

I have to agree - and disagree at the same time : of course it's conservative, retro, male-chauvinistic and whatever... but as it goes against everything I've been taught, I find it quite transgressive - and hence, funny.

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Desperate, but not serious.

Posts: 689 | From: Confoederatio Helvetica | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
[fish] Nope. That's just my halibut smacking you on the head.

Kisses....

Hey, people will talk, and our bizarre halibut smacking thing will be out in the open [Big Grin]

The thing about the OP is, IMO, that some of us find it transgressive, and funny because appalling. Some of us find it non-transgressive, and not appalling. Some of it find that it resonates, for good or bad. It is for this reason that locker rooms were invented.

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Doug4.7
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I will just add this one thing: I find this DISCUSSION much better than the OP "joke".

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And now for something completely different...

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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
It's not that difficult to understand why; it's to do with the usual balance of power.

Strong group making fun of weak group: Nasty, mean-spirited and has all sorts of unpleasant bullying overtones.

Weak group making fun of strong group: Venting, rebalancing power, subverting stereotypes.

Basically, making fun of somebody can remove some of their power and give it to you. If you've already got the power then you don't need more, and you should find it easier to deal with some loss.

Like I said, I assumed this was fairly basic but it's odd how often people don't get it.

Double standards are not a good thing no matter how you want to rationalize them.

Nonny

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When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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