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Author Topic: Top Seven Myths of Homosexuality
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http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/07/23/top-seven-myths-of-homosexuality/
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Orpheum
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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From the diatribe... er.. article:

quote:
God created the unique relationship between a man and a woman.
How anyone purports to debunk myths using another myth is beyond my capability to comprehend.

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A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

Willy Wonka

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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Here is all you need to know about the "unbiased" nature of this article:

quote:
Solid, irrefutable evidence proves that there are lethal consequences to engaging in the defining features of male homosexuality—that is, promiscuity.
Really? I thought the defining feature of male homosexuality was sex with men.

PS. One of the blogs listed in TheBlogRoll is "Cannuckistan Chronicles". Somehow I don't think that is our favorite dancing chicken.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Ugh.

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Oceanic Aura
The First USA Noel


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Wow.

Simply...wow.

I'm sure there are many people just as offended as I, who will do an excellent job of bunking this piece of trash. I look forward to reading them all.

And you make an excellent point, Orpheum. I will never understand why people operate on the notion that their 'religious' beliefs should have any bearing on public policy.

Aura

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"Are we talking misdemeanor trouble or squeal like a pig trouble?"

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Brillo Bee
Wii Three Kings


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quote:
Solid, irrefutable evidence proves that there are lethal consequences to engaging in the defining features of male homosexuality—that is, promiscuity.


Wow! I learned so much about myself from this article. For example, I thought that, even during my semi-promiscuous college days, I was a woman. Now I know that I was actually in grave danger of being a male homosexual.

Bee

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People do not wish to appear foolish; to avoid the appearance of foolishness, they are willing to remain actually fools. -Alice Walker

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Oceanic Aura
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
One of the blogs listed in TheBlogRoll is "Cannuckistan Chronicles". Somehow I don't think that is our favorite dancing chicken.

The second best way to tell: 'CanNuckistan'? Not only are they stupid, but they have atrocious spelling! Our Canuckistan has many admirable features, the least of which is an excellent sense of grammar!

Aura

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"Are we talking misdemeanor trouble or squeal like a pig trouble?"

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Brillo Bee
Wii Three Kings


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quote:
24 percent of gay men had over 100 partners

43 percent of gay men had over 500 partners

28 percent of gay men had over 1000 partners



OK, nevermind the bad formatting. (That is, if 43% of gay men had more than 500 partners, it should be more than 43% of gay men that had more than 100 partners, but we all know what they meant.)

This adds up to 95% of gay men having at least 100 partners. Can anyone really believe this? I mean, I don't have data to counter this, but it is so far outside the realm of common sense! I mean, I am sure that more than 5% of gay men live in areas or situations where they don't have access to 100 partners. Or maybe this goes back to not counting men as gay unless they are also promiscuous (see above RE: defining characteristics of male homosexuality).

~Bee

ETA: They also claim that 2.7% of gay men have only one partner. Which means that only 2.3% of all gay men have more than 1 but less than 100 partners. Oh, I guess zero partners would fall in that 2.3%, too. This is crazily defying common sense.

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People do not wish to appear foolish; to avoid the appearance of foolishness, they are willing to remain actually fools. -Alice Walker

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gift-wrapped smittykins
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Individuals who have gone through an Exodus International Member Ministry have discovered that Jesus Christ is sufficient to make the difference.
Ummm, did anyone bother asking Michael Bussee about that one?

Edited for typo and to change message icon.

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"We're all entitled to a few eccentricities, provided they don't harm anyone, break the law, or cause a public nuisance"--James Qwilleran, The Cat Who Dropped A Bombshell(Lillian Jackson Braun)
Member AAMAH

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Towknie
We Three Blings


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quote:
Let’s face it: science is fact … not theory. So, when the media takes hold of falsified theories of genetic links to homosexuality and promotes it as science, people are led astray.
Let's face it: science is fact ... not theory. So, when the media takes hold of falsified theories of CREATIONISM and promotes it as science, people are led astray.

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Towknie: Ryda-certified as wonderful, enlighted, and rational.

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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Really? I thought the defining feature of male homosexuality was sex with men.

GenYus, I said this once and was shouted down by an entire roomful of people who said that the defining feature of male homosexuality was men loving men, not necessarily men having sex with men. I still haven't figured out which side of that argument I come down on.
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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Neffti Neffti Bang Bang:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Really? I thought the defining feature of male homosexuality was sex with men.

GenYus, I said this once and was shouted down by an entire roomful of people who said that the defining feature of male homosexuality was men loving men, not necessarily men having sex with men. I still haven't figured out which side of that argument I come down on.
It would have to be men loving men as romantic, not platonic or familial love.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Oceanic Aura:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
One of the blogs listed in TheBlogRoll is "Cannuckistan Chronicles". Somehow I don't think that is our favorite dancing chicken.

The second best way to tell: 'CanNuckistan'? Not only are they stupid, but they have atrocious spelling! Our Canuckistan has many admirable features, the least of which is an excellent sense of grammar!

Aw, shucks, guys, you're making me blush! Even if I'm a horrible freak of nature not worthy of God's love. [fish]

From the OP:

quote:
Studies have also found that while homosexuals may be trying to convince themselves that what they are doing is acceptable, they have serious doubts in their hearts.
Oh please. Like I have a heart.

quote:
A Columbia University study on “internalized homophobia” among homosexual persons found that a significant percentage of homosexuals surveyed held negative attitudes toward their own homosexuality and toward other homosexuals.
Ho. Ly. NFBSK.

Talk about getting it bass ackwards. Really. It's not that there's internalized homophobia because of NFBSKwits like this guy. No, it's because we know that what we're doing is wrong, according to these people's warped sense of morality.

Besides, what does "negative attitudes towards ... other homosexuals" even mean? That they say bad things about other gays? Like heterosexuals never say anything bad about other straight people.

What a useless twit.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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lazerus the duck
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Fact: Homosexual male relationships are rarely monogamous
and how does this differ from hetrosexual exactly?

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All the world's a face, And all the men and women merely acne.

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Brillo Bee:
quote:
24 percent of gay men had over 100 partners

43 percent of gay men had over 500 partners

28 percent of gay men had over 1000 partners



OK, nevermind the bad formatting. (That is, if 43% of gay men had more than 500 partners, it should be more than 43% of gay men that had more than 100 partners, but we all know what they meant.)

This adds up to 95% of gay men having at least 100 partners. Can anyone really believe this?

Not me. (Unless our gay friends are getting a lot more than they admit!) The short explanation is that this "data" comes from a deeply flawed study done on men in the "bathhouse" culture of the mid-70's, in which promisciuity was both encouraged and also a kind of bragging point. Then, opponents of homosexuality pulled these statistics out of the middle of the tables. Here is a more detailed critique:
http://www.counterbias.com/505.html

So, you're right. It's bogus.

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Victoria J
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:

What a useless twit.

You have a most admirable talent for summing things up.

Nothing to add.

Victoria J.

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Post accompanied by maniacal laughter.

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Dutch Angua
Deck the Malls


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Things like this make me sick...sick to my stomach...

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Dude, where's my siggy?

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mnotr2
Jingle Bell Hock


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Um, I started to feel kind of funny while reading that article, do you think I may have caught teh gay?

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Infinite goodness is creating a being you know, in advance, is going to complain.
Captain Billy Cutshaw

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Towknie:
quote:
Let’s face it: science is fact … not theory. So, when the media takes hold of falsified theories of genetic links to homosexuality and promotes it as science, people are led astray.
Let's face it: science is fact ... not theory. So, when the media takes hold of falsified theories of CREATIONISM and promotes it as science, people are led astray.
Let's face it... science is a discipline made up of a way of viewing information and extrapolating it into predictive theories, then testing those theories.

(it really irritates me when pCms and other various Ms mischaracterize science. they seem to make a hobby of it)

ETA: this is not directed at Townkie's rewriting of the quote at all.

--------------------
Officially Heartless

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jimmy101
The First USA Noel


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Great definition of "Science" ThistleS.

I think I would take it even farther. Science is not about facts. An encyclopedia is about facts. Science is also not about "fundamental truth". (Need to define "fundamental truth";
quote:
Fundamental Truth:
The underlying causes and mechanism of a physical process. This truth may or may not be discernible by humans.

)
Science is really about utility ("predictive theories" as ThistleS put it). "Good" science is nothing more than creating a predictive (and useful) theory. It is not about creating a "true" theory. How can that be you ask, doesn't the theory have to be true? Nope. It only has to be useful and/or predictive to be good science.

Furthermore, the main tools of science are observation and experimentation which generally involves some sort of measurement. If you can't observe and/or measure it, it isn't science. Since the "Fundamental Truth" underlying the behavior of a system is unknown (why would you study a system that you already understood completely?) then the difference between the "Fundamental Truth" and a particular theory is unknown and cannot be measured.

Another thought on the matter. Scientist fairly rarely use the word "fact". Generally they would instead use "data" or use some other term. If the word "fact" is used you are probably not talking to a scientist (or at least not to a scientist with expertise in the particular area). Don't believe that? A search of MEDLINE (the NIH's database of ~10,000,000 abstracts of biological papers) has just 120,000 (1.2%) abstracts with the word fact(s). You are just not going to see many scientific publications with a sentence like "We studied system XYZ and determined these facts ...". The word "fact" tends to crop up when non-scientist are talking, or when a scientist is overstating a point to a non-scientist, or when a discussion gets contentious.

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LemonLimeade
Deck the Malls


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I thought the Kinsey Report had shown that gay men often had had up to 500 partners (that does seem pretty high - perhaps the study has fallen into disfavor?)

According to The Gay Report (conducted by two gay activists)
quote:
Accusations of promiscuity had long been levelled at the gay community. As Jay and Young's research indicates, these fears were justified. According to the study, 35% of respondents admitted to having had 100 or more different sexual partners throughout their lives (p.249); 18% admitted to having had between seven and 60 such partners in the previous month alone (p. 248), and 18% to having had three or more in the previous week (p. 248). 38% said the longest relationship they had ever had did not last longer than a year (p. 340). For lesbians the average relationship lasted 38 months (p. 302).
http://www.narth.com/docs/reporton.html

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Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by LemonLimeade:
I thought the Kinsey Report had shown that gay men often had had up to 500 partners (that does seem pretty high - perhaps the study has fallen into disfavor?)

According to The Gay Report (conducted by two gay activists)
quote:
Accusations of promiscuity had long been levelled at the gay community. As Jay and Young's research indicates, these fears were justified. According to the study, 35% of respondents admitted to having had 100 or more different sexual partners throughout their lives (p.249); 18% admitted to having had between seven and 60 such partners in the previous month alone (p. 248), and 18% to having had three or more in the previous week (p. 248). 38% said the longest relationship they had ever had did not last longer than a year (p. 340). For lesbians the average relationship lasted 38 months (p. 302).
http://www.narth.com/docs/reporton.html
Could you possibly find a more tainted site? Or one written by people more out of their fields (english and journalism do not statiticians or scientists make)? That site is ridiculious.

ETD: to correct my verbiage

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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As well as a site with more missing informaiton. For example:
quote:
Rumours of pedophilia and child molestation by gays have also long persisted. In the study, 23% of respondents admitted to having had sex with youths aged 13-15 (p. 275), while 19% felt positive about sexual activity within this age group (p. 276).
What age where the 23% of respondents when they had sex with youths aged 13-15? If they were 13-15, that that is not pedophilia/molestation. And were the 19% that were positive about sexual activity within that group talking about two 15 year olds or one 15 year old and one 40 year old? And what was the definition of "sexual activity"? Is a game of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" sexual activity?

PS. Why do I keep being on the same side as Ryda lately? Is the universe imploding? [Razz]

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Brillo Bee
Wii Three Kings


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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy101:
A search of MEDLINE (the NIH's database of ~10,000,000 abstracts of biological papers) has just 120,000 (1.2%) abstracts with the word fact(s). You are just not going to see many scientific publications with a sentence like "We studied system XYZ and determined these facts ...". The word "fact" tends to crop up when non-scientist are talking, or when a scientist is overstating a point to a non-scientist, or when a discussion gets contentious.

Hear, hear! That statement has been bugging me since I read it, but your post said what I was thinking better than I probably would had I posted on that.

~Bee

ps- I did a quick check on a hunch -- about 30,000 abstracts in MedLine contain the common phrase "in fact," cutting it down to something like 90,000 that use the word "fact" in another context. (Assuming no papers use both.)

--------------------
People do not wish to appear foolish; to avoid the appearance of foolishness, they are willing to remain actually fools. -Alice Walker

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jimmy101
The First USA Noel


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Brillo Bee- Excellent idea. I was bothered by not knowing how to weed out other meanings and uses of the word and didn't even think of that common useage.

I thought it would be interesting to compare the frequence of use of the word "fact" in MEDLINE with the frequence from Google. There are 1.9 billion documents with "fact" or "facts" according to Google.

Anybody know how many web pages (and other sources) are indexed in Google? I can't find that number anywhere on the Google site. Can you even use Google to do this kind of analysis?

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jessboo
The First USA Noel


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quote:
By saying one in ten people are homosexual, you are promoting a lie. It is declaring to the world that homosexuality is “normal” and should be treated as such. Yet, if you think about it, 10 to 15 percent of Americans are alcoholic, but we don’t accept this behavior as normal or healthy. Or pedophilia. Using the homosexual mantra, the more people openly profess that it is “normal”, the more we should accept it. And we certanily do not accept any of these as normal behavior.

This just in- teh gays are as bad as paedophiles!!

I'm really hoping I'll get to the end and it'll all be a horrible dream...

--------------------
Join me on Lost - www.lost.eu/edcf

Do you have any wine? All of this would go a lot smoother in an altered state of reality.

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Victoria J
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
As well as a site with more missing informaiton. For example:
quote:
Rumours of pedophilia and child molestation by gays have also long persisted. In the study, 23% of respondents admitted to having had sex with youths aged 13-15 (p. 275), while 19% felt positive about sexual activity within this age group (p. 276).
What age where the 23% of respondents when they had sex with youths aged 13-15? If they were 13-15, that that is not pedophilia/molestation. And were the 19% that were positive about sexual activity within that group talking about two 15 year olds or one 15 year old and one 40 year old? And what was the definition of "sexual activity"? Is a game of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" sexual activity?

PS. Why do I keep being on the same side as Ryda lately? Is the universe imploding? [Razz]

Good points, verywell made.

It may also partly just be a male thing. Men do seem much more positive about underage sex on the whole. Or to take the attitude that young men are always just lucky to be having sex, where women in similar circumstances would be seen as victims of abuse.

There seems to have been a lot of argument about that over in the NFBSK threads (and a lot of accusations of double standards), where the stories about female teachers and boys in their care do are seen very differently to the reverse situation.

So it wouldn't be particularly suprising for any group of men to be positive about the idea of 15 year olds having sex. Probably thinking about how positive they were about the idea when they were 15...

It is a worrying way of thinking, but apparently a common one. Young men obviously can be, and are, subjected to unwanted sexual activity in just the same way as young women. It seems most damaging when the same thing is also often believed by young men, or those who may be sleeping with them.

(And that is my point, much less well made. One day I will learn to be brief.)

Victoria J.

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Post accompanied by maniacal laughter.

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Ulkomaalainen
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by LemonLimeade:
18% admitted to having had between seven and 60 such partners in the previous month alone

One reason to doubt this "data" would be, that this boils down to two sexual encounters per day. And different ones for the whole month. While I am sure that there are homosexual people who would enjoy this kind of promiscuity (like there would be heterosexual as well), I find it hard to believe, that they would be able to find and convince two new sexual partners per day. I do not even meet a girl per day, with whom I would be interested in having a sexual encounter. Let alone a different one [Smile]

OTOH, you might say that "eight" falls within the scope of "seven to sixty", but that would make the statement somewhat misleading (plus I'd still doubt it unless supported by some more reliable source).

--------------------
Movie characters never make typing mistakes.

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Ulkomaalainen:
quote:
Originally posted by LemonLimeade:
18% admitted to having had between seven and 60 such partners in the previous month alone

One reason to doubt this "data" would be, that this boils down to two sexual encounters per day. And different ones for the whole month. While I am sure that there are homosexual people who would enjoy this kind of promiscuity (like there would be heterosexual as well), I find it hard to believe, that they would be able to find and convince two new sexual partners per day. I do not even meet a girl per day, with whom I would be interested in having a sexual encounter. Let alone a different one [Smile]
What are you talking about? 60 a month sounds completely accurate to me. Describes me to a tee. [Roll Eyes]

I don't know of any gay man who fits this description. Seven a month is also known as "wishful thinking."

Would you believe four in the past year?

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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onein6billion
Deck the Malls


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I think that this reply to the article sums up why even having this whole thing is ridiculous.

quote:

If you truly believe yourself to be a Christian - look around you. The world is full of war, violence, injustice, poverty, disease, hunger - and the Christian Right doesn’t give a shit about any of it. You just care about abortion and homosexuality. Freaks.


Well said, random internet man, well said.

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"Divorce is not caused because 50% of marriages end in gayness." - Jon Stewart
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Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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All the really promiscuous people I know are heterosexuals. And even they don't have sex with two different people a day. If the numbers get higher than that, I'll have to assume it's something they do for a living.

Sister "zero in the last sixteen years" Ray

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Casey, making hot chocolate
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy101:
Another thought on the matter. Scientist fairly rarely use the word "fact". Generally they would instead use "data" or use some other term. If the word "fact" is used you are probably not talking to a scientist (or at least not to a scientist with expertise in the particular area). Don't believe that? A search of MEDLINE (the NIH's database of ~10,000,000 abstracts of biological papers) has just 120,000 (1.2%) abstracts with the word fact(s). You are just not going to see many scientific publications with a sentence like "We studied system XYZ and determined these facts ...". The word "fact" tends to crop up when non-scientist are talking, or when a scientist is overstating a point to a non-scientist, or when a discussion gets contentious.

Very true. You NEVER list something you have done as proof, or as a fact. Studies and experiments can "demonstrate" and "show", but they can never "prove". To prove implies that there is not, nor can there ever be, a case where the proof is not true.

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"To be or not to be! That is the question! Now, will you answer, dare, double dare, or take the Physical Challenge?" --Mark Summers as Hamlet
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NZUL
Deck the Malls


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quote:
The Archives of General Psychiatry, an established and well-respected journal, has shown that men and women living homosexually are at substantially higher risk for some forms of emotional problems, including suicidality, major depression and anxiety disorder, conduct disorder and nicotine dependence.
Oh gee, I wonder why? [Roll Eyes]

Talk about your vicious circles.

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quis_custodiet
Deck the Malls


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"including suicidality"

Is that even a word?

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quis custodiet

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep - everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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quote:
Originally posted by quis_custodiet:
"including suicidality"

Is that even a word?

Actually, yes.

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