snopes.com Post new topic  Post a reply
search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello snopes.com » Urban Legends » NFBSK » Man fathers own fiancee (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
Author Topic: Man fathers own fiancee
snopes
Return! Return! Return!


Icon 302 posted      Profile for snopes   Author's Homepage   E-mail snopes       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Comment: Had not seen this referenced could not find when I searched your
site, is it true?


In 1984 a Los Angeles businessman, Arnold G.
was delighted to announce his engagement
to his girlfriend, Carol. However his fiancee's
father immediately took Arnold to one side
and confided that he was not the girl's natural
father. Carol had been conceived by artificial
insemination from donor sperm.

When Arnold discovered the name of the
sperm bank, he was appalled: he had
donated sperm there as a student. Arnold
immediately obtained court authority to
inspect the sperm bank's records. He
discovered that he was the biological
father of 807 children and that one of these
was his fiancee, Carol. The dismayed
couple's engagement was immediately
broken off.

Posts: 36029 | From: Admin | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Eve MG
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Eve MG   Author's Homepage   E-mail Eve MG   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
You know, that brings up a good point - whether this is true or not. (Which, for the record, I doubt. What's with the father taking him aside? Can anybody really "immediately" inspect a sperm bank's records, just because they want to get married? And 807 kids?)

Anyway - legally, this marriage would be acceptable, wouldn't it? Because if he never checked the records, no one would know that he was Carol's father. Socially, it's not really immoral because Arnold did not raise Carol and they did not have a father-daughter relationship. But biologically it would be wrong/risky/stupid - whatever the right word is there.

I guess the moral of the story would be to never date someone who was born around the time you donated sperm.

--------------------
I love dairy! Does that mean I can't be a vegan?

Posts: 1569 | From: Upstate NY | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cervus   E-mail Cervus   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Shouldn't the title be "Man fathers own girlfriend"?

What kind of father tells his future son-in-law that his girlfriend was artifically inseminated from a sperm bank?

The biological father of 807 kids? I'd be more appalled about that, if possible (which I highly doubt). How many are normally born from one sample? Is there a limit on the number of times you can donate? (I don't know if I really want an answer, I'm just musing.)

--------------------
"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Eve MG
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Eve MG   Author's Homepage   E-mail Eve MG   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I was wondering the same things, Cervus. I found a page about sperm donation at SoYouWanna.com and learned more than I ever wanted to know.

SoYouWanna says that the legal forms you sign when you become a donor indicate they will only allow 10 children to be born from your sperm. And they were clear that you will remain anonymous and never know your children.

So let's say Carol was 20 when this supposedly happened in 1984. Were the sperm banks that less regulated - or that much more desperate - in 1964 that they allowed one man to father 807 kids?

Eve "Can't believe I'm up at midnight discussing this" MG

--------------------
I love dairy! Does that mean I can't be a vegan?

Posts: 1569 | From: Upstate NY | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Eve MG
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Eve MG   Author's Homepage   E-mail Eve MG   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I just found this joke verbatim filed under "Just Jokes" here.

You'll have to search the page for "sperm" or scroll about halfway down the page to Update May 31, 2000.

Eve "I can go to bed now." MG

--------------------
I love dairy! Does that mean I can't be a vegan?

Posts: 1569 | From: Upstate NY | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop   Author's Homepage   E-mail Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
This is being put forth as a joke? There's nothing in it that even tries to be funny.

Strikes me as having more the flavor of a cautionary tale.

Nonny

--------------------
When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

Posts: 10141 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
inkiemouse
Let It Wasabi


Icon 1 posted      Profile for inkiemouse   Author's Homepage   E-mail inkiemouse   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Cautionary tale? What kind of caution can be taken here?

"Don't donate to sperm banks or you might end up marrying your daughter"?

[Razz]

--------------------
A dyslexic man walks into a bra.

Posts: 541 | From: New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AndrewR
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AndrewR   E-mail AndrewR   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Maybe it's "don't date girls 20 years younger than you". [Wink]
Posts: 61 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop   Author's Homepage   E-mail Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by inkiemouse:
Cautionary tale? What kind of caution can be taken here?

"Don't donate to sperm banks or you might end up marrying your daughter"?

[Razz]

Well, yeah. Or, "Don't use sperm banks or your daughter may end up marrying her father/brother." There's a segment of the population that considers these kinds of reproductive strategies immoral, and would have a vested interest in spreading this kind of story to make people think twice.

Nonny

--------------------
When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

Posts: 10141 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Electrotiger
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Electrotiger   E-mail Electrotiger   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm my own grandpa... I'm my own grandpa... It sounds funny, I know, but I swear that it's so... I'm my own grandpa!

--------------------
Mr. Sagan did not go too fars, If you just took the time to scan its,
You'd count billions and billions of stars, And billions and billions of planets.

Posts: 332 | From: Kansas City, MO | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
tetsuo_the_great
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 103 posted      Profile for tetsuo_the_great   E-mail tetsuo_the_great   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
why do i feel slighty erosed?

maybe i should have kept that to myself.

anyway the thing is that probabbly that it was a joke and not real. I don't think they had artificial insemination in 1964. I could be wrong though.

Posts: 45 | From: Springfield, MO | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Panda_Marie
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Eve MG:
You know, that brings up a good point - whether this is true or not. (Which, for the record, I doubt. What's with the father taking him aside? Can anybody really "immediately" inspect a sperm bank's records, just because they want to get married? And 807 kids?)

Anyway - legally, this marriage would be acceptable, wouldn't it? Because if he never checked the records, no one would know that he was Carol's father. Socially, it's not really immoral because Arnold did not raise Carol and they did not have a father-daughter relationship. But biologically it would be wrong/risky/stupid - whatever the right word is there.

I guess the moral of the story would be to never date someone who was born around the time you donated sperm.

I was under the impression that blood tests were done before marriages to insure that we don't stumble upon accidently incest? I could be very wrong about this. I'm gonna look it up, give me a minute.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Panda_Marie
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Well, I guess that proves me wrong. I couldn't find anything other than some county which states there is no blood test required.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Wizard of Yendor
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wizard of Yendor   E-mail Wizard of Yendor   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Panda_Marie:
I was under the impression that blood tests were done before marriages to insure that we don't stumble upon accidently incest? I could be very wrong about this. I'm gonna look it up, give me a minute.

Yes, you are. IIRC some states require a blood test for certain diseases but I don't know of any that requires genetic testing.
Posts: 2352 | From: California | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Panda_Marie
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
And if you have a genetic disease, then what? They don't let you get married?
IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Wizard of Yendor
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wizard of Yendor   E-mail Wizard of Yendor   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I didn't say genetic disease.
Posts: 2352 | From: California | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Panda_Marie
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Oh, sorry...I read a little to fast there. Well what kind of diseases? I'm sorry...I'm just curious.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


Icon 503 posted      Profile for Four Kitties   E-mail Four Kitties   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Panda_Marie:
Oh, sorry...I read a little to fast there. Well what kind of diseases? I'm sorry...I'm just curious.

Blood testing during a marriage application was instituted to root out syphilis.

Here's a link to which states still require blood tests for marriage licenses; it's out of date however. Blood tests are no longer required in Massachusetts as of 28 January 2005.

Four Kitties

--------------------
If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Wizard of Yendor
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wizard of Yendor   E-mail Wizard of Yendor   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Mostly syphilis. Those laws seem to be on the way out though, only 4 states plus Puetro Rico still have them. (In case you're wondering why I knew that, I didn't, I cheated and used Google.)
Posts: 2352 | From: California | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
pinqy
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for pinqy   E-mail pinqy   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
hmmm you know, I don't think this would legally be incest. I had reason to look up paternity law in Texas (no, not for myself) and sperm donors cannot, under any circumstances, be legally considered the father of a child from their donated sperm. Therefore it wouldn't be incest.

pinqy

--------------------
Don't Forget!
Winter Solstice Hanukkah Christmas Kwanzaa & Gurnenthar's Ascendance Are Coming!

Posts: 8671 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Panda_Marie
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I think incest falls under BLOOD. The issue is, if a parent and offspring, or brother and sister get together, and have a child, there can be serious health problems for the child.

Not because of what paternity law says, but because of genetics.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
verycoolnin
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Am I the only one having a hard time believing this story? Doesn't the 807 figure seem a little high? How many times could he have possibly donated sperm?
IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
It only takes one sacred little spermy to make a baby, so merely one donation could make many, many, MANY children.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Matt H.
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Matt H.     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I first saw the OP in 1993. It's in one of the books in the series by Reader's Digest called "Charting the Unknown." I'll have to dig it out...

--------------------
"Who needs the Bible? I've got this magic 8-ball."

Posts: 354 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Nolly
Fin City


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Nolly   Author's Homepage     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by verycoolnin:
Am I the only one having a hard time believing this story? Doesn't the 807 figure seem a little high? How many times could he have possibly donated sperm?

With 400 - 500 million sperm in the average ejaculation, he'd only need to have donated once.

quote:
Originally posted by tetsuo_the_great:
why do i feel slighty erosed?

maybe i should have kept that to myself.

Er...you think? [Roll Eyes]

Nol "where's a vomit smiley when you need one?" ly

--------------------
DON'T waste money on expensive paper shredders to avoid having your identity stolen. Simply place a few dog turds in the bin bags along with your old bank statements..

Posts: 102 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


Icon 1 posted      Profile for TrishDaDish   Author's Homepage   E-mail TrishDaDish   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Forgive me if I get this wrong, haven't seen the movie in ages, but this topic is making me think of it...

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is good
Every sperm is needed
In your neighborhood...


--------------------
I would prefer not to.
My blog

Posts: 4789 | From: Rhode Island | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
abigsmurf
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


Icon 1 posted      Profile for abigsmurf   E-mail abigsmurf   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
is it true that sperm donation in the US gets $100's? In the UK it's limited to £25+costs (which is a shame, would be handy for extra cash)
Posts: 824 | From: England | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mitochondrial Steve
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mitochondrial Steve   E-mail Mitochondrial Steve   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by abigsmurf:
is it true that sperm donation in the US gets $100's? In the UK it's limited to £25+costs (which is a shame, would be handy for extra cash)

I've always heard anything from $50-$100 for the "walk-in" places. From TSBC:

quote:

Benefits of Becoming a Sperm Donor

• You receive free ongoing health screening throughout your participation in the donor program.
• You learn about your fertility and genetic history
• You are paid $65 for every ejaculate that meets our minimum sperm count, a payment that increases to $75 after your first 25 acceptable ejaculates.
• You are paid $200 when you complete the exit blood test, which is required six months after you retire from the program

Not too shabby.
Posts: 392 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
abbubmah
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for abbubmah   E-mail abbubmah   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Wow, that's like, $39,000 an hour.

Who needs to work?

--------------------
Fundamentally Unfundie since 1975

Posts: 7942 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus   E-mail I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Umm, EVERY sperm can't become a baby. Sperm is sold in vials, each vial has a full "dose" of lots of sperm, and one donation can't be more than 3-4 vials. Each vial can only cause 1 pregnancy max, and success rates are pretty low. Couples often buy a dozen vials so they can try multiple times. And a doctor may put multiple vials in at a time to increase the cahnce of success.

So a single donation could not usually produce more babies than one mother could carry at a time. Usually less.

Posts: 2115 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
But doesn't IVF work differently from artificial insemination, whereas fertilization takes place, er, extra-uterine-ly? In that case, it would only take one sperm to make a baby, wouldn't it?

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus   E-mail I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Well, yes and no.

Donor sperm is used where there is a male problem. If the female is healthy, IVF would be a huge waste of money. Donor sperm is often used by inserting it when the woman is about to ovulate. They usually use an amount equivalent to two acts of intercourse. Only if the woman also has fertility problems will IVF be used with donor sperm.

IVF takes place in a lab. Normally, a whole compliment of healthy sperm are put with the eggs and allowed to fertilize normally. So you still need a full dose of sperm to make a small number of embryos. The highest number of embryos I've seen made this way is 26, with 33 eggs. Of that 26, 2 were used immediately and resulted in a single baby, 18 survived to be frozen. With thawing rates as they are (50% survival), the couple may be able to have 3 babies with those 26 succesful sperm.

In cases where the sperm or egg is less healthy, the individual sperm can be injected straight into the egg. They still take a full sample to examine, and pick the healthiest looking swimmers for the job. Success rates are lower than the normal way, because of possible damage to the eggs or sperm, and because they can't really tell which sperm are the most healthy.

Currently, there is no way to make babies without wasting a huge numer of sperm. Many donations result in no baby at all, because IVF success rates are around 50%. A guy would have to donate at least 1000 times, to come near 800 babies.

Posts: 2115 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Salamander
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Salamander   E-mail Salamander   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Lets see here now... 1000 donations @ 25 x $65, then 975 x $75 + $200...

That makes it... $74950.

However, the downside (and I'm not going to research this at work... I don't want "male fertility" searches appearing against my account, so you'll have to deal with anecdotes for now) is that I believe that to reach 'minimum sperm count' you need to store them up for a week or something like that. At least I'm sure that is the figure I recall from a TV documentary on men's fertility issues.

So, 1000 donations @ 1/week = 19.2 years, so the guy in the OP had probably only just finished up last week. If I'd been donating for the last 20 years, I'd start wondering if my 20-years-younger bride might be one of mine too!

--------------------
"victory thru self-deception"

Posts: 2211 | From: Western Australia | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
snopes
Return! Return! Return!


Icon 08 posted      Profile for snopes   Author's Homepage   E-mail snopes       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Comment: I have heard the following story twice, but trying to look it up
on the net, all I can find are links to porn.

As it was told to me, a married couple (older husband, younger wife)
living in Seattle were researching the wife's family when the husband
realized that he had known a woman with his mother-in-law's maiden name
(the mother-in-law having died when the wife was a child. Following up on
a disturbing thought he then had, he had a blood test done and found out
that he was his wife's biological father.

The couple already had one child, and after getting the husband a
vasectomy, they decided to stay together. There may have been some
investigation related to the blood test results, as one of the tellers
said the authorities required the vasectomy, to avoid legal problems, and
one of the tellers say they saw the story on a daytime talk-show (complete
with blurred-out faces)

Posts: 36029 | From: Admin | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Troberg     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
In other words, if you marry someone young enough to be your daughter, she might be your daughter?

As for inbreeding, I saw a TV documentary a few years ago and they said that it's not a problem if it doesn't continue through many generations, and as a result of this, some nations are considering relaxing the laws in this area. I still think it has a certain ick factor, but in cases like this where they have never had a "relative relation", I can see why that ick factor does not really apply and why it would be equally wierd for them to drop their feelings for each other.

--------------------
/Troberg

Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
  This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post new topic  Post a reply Close topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Urban Legends Reference Pages

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2