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Author Topic: Boycott and Glurge all in one!
Howard
Deck the Malls


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This lovely tidbit was forwarded to me by a lady in my office. She's been the recipient of many a snopes link in response to her forwards.


From my inbox (soon to be decontaminated):

This is an email that I received from my boss. Please read and pass it on. I hope that you will have a blessed day. Beverly

This young lady's parents go to my church so I know the email is authentic. I can tell you I'll not be going to Arby's at Metro or Pearl again.  

 Cheryl 
 

 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:53:33 EDT


I just wanted to take a moment to let you all know about a situation that took place today:

Joel and I had met for lunch at Arby's on Highway 80 by Metrocenter (I know...not the greatest place for lunch).  As we began to walk in the front door I noticed a homeless man (early to late 60's) sitting on an old paint bucket. 


He wasn't asking anyone for money or food, he was just enjoying the shade.  He looked at us and said "Hello, how are you."  I got to thinking about the pocket bible that Dr. Cope gave us a few weeks in Sunday school.  For some reason I remembered seeing it on my front seat before I got out of the car, so I turned around and went back to my car and got the Bible. As I was there I remembered that I didn't eat my snacks from school that morning either, so I grabbed those too.  As I walked towards the door I made my way to the man and I handed him the Bible and food.  I have never in my life seen someone so appreciative and grateful for so a small gift. 

Joel and I placed our order, went to sit down and began to eat.  I could see out the window by the cars, a man in an SUV pulled up and was handing the guy some money and as this was happening the owner (Bruce Evans) ran out the door of the kitchen and then outside and threw the homeless man to the ground and proceeded to kick him.  Everyone that could see what was happening was in total shock (as anyone would be)--you could hear a gasp across the whole eating area.  He yelled at the man and then walked back inside.  At this point there were tears in my eyes.  I yelled "Excuse me, what is your problem?" He said "Mam?" as though nothing had happened.  A woman behind me piped up and said "That was just cruel."  I told him "that was plain ruthless". He said "If you knew how much business this man has cost everyone to lose around here you would have done it too."  I said "No Sir, what you just did to that man lost you business, we will NEVER eat here again." Everyone agreed and told him this was their final visit to Arby's also.  He ended with saying "That's fine, I have plenty of business."  

T o end the story, a policeman drove up about 5-10 min later and I met him outside and explained everything that had happened.  Joel and I tried to find the man so that we could buy him some lunch and hopefully give him a way to talk to that policeman.  We could not find him, he must have been long gone.   

We wonder why some people don't believe in God.  This man was given a Bible by a total stranger and in a matter of 10 minutes was shoved to the ground by another.  If you were lost and confused about a relationship with Christ, wouldn't something like this put all sorts of doubt in your mind? Like, how could God create such crude people if he really loves us? 

I urge you to boycott Arby's.  The owner is Bruce Evans (white male with a long pony tail) until all of this gets sorted out.  He is the owner of the Arby's on Highway 80 and the Arby's in Pearl.  Also, I urge you to be in prayer for the man that was mistreated so badly.  He may not have been the greatest person in the world, the cleanest person, the wealthiest person...but haven't we all been told...we never know how God is going to come back?

**PLEASE FORWARD THIS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!

  In Christ,

       Joel and Carrie Thames  

 

It has been brought to my attention that this man, Bruce Evans, also owns the Arby's at 804 Lake Harbor Drive, Ridgeland, and probably still owns the Arby's in Vicksburg.

Might as well boycott them all!!!!!!!!!!


ETA: I seriously hope they boycott Arby's. If they do, that's gonna be my new favorite place to eat!

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"I believe you believe that, but I just think you're confused."

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Spamamander in a pear tree
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Wow- this about screams defamation since it's HIGHLY doubtful this incident occured (I'm sure something like this would have made the paper) and the business owner in question can prove that the circulated mail affected his business.

Now I'm craving a chicken cordon bleu sandwich with horsey sauce...

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"There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein

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Stoneage Dinosaur
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How disappointing - I was expecting something along the lines of true faith helping a simple grandmother become a cricketing legend despite having only a stick of rhubarb to bat with.

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"You learn something new every day if you're not careful" - Wilf Lunn

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DawnStorm
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Easy for me to boycott ARbys--there aren't any in my area!
Honestly though, wouldn't it have been easier for the businessman to call the police about the homeless man? Wait; in Glurgeland, you always go to extremes.

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Leashes?! We don't need no stinking leashes!!

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Lil' Molly
Deck the Malls


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I know there are rat bastards in this world who kick homeless people for fun or whatever, but I find it very difficult to believe that a grown business man went out and kicked the crap out of an older guy in broad daylight in front of his store and didn't see anything wrong with his actions. I vote gross hyperbole at best, but probably outright lie.

Also, why is it that in Glurgeland homeless people are *always* good and kind and innocent? What if the guy kicked him because he'd been seen selling drugs to kids the week before? Or leering at little girls? Hours and hours working in the soup kitchen taught me that there are lots and lots of wonderful, kindhearted, grateful homeless people, but, just like non-homeless people, there are plenty others who are far from angelic.

ETA: clarification

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... and now back to your regularly scheduled lurking.

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Kahdra
Deck the Malls


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I liked how the customers were so horrified by the attack on the homeless man that they could only sit and cry instead of trying to help. Fortunately, they could yell at the owner after, thus fulfilling their moral responsibility to their fellow human beings [Roll Eyes] .

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"Science makes everything sound painful, Spongebob." - Sandy

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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More horsey sauce for me!

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Ink Rose
Deck the Malls


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Easy for me to Boycott Arbys, I think all of their food is absolutely disgusting. It's dog crap in a bag. Bleh!

No wonder someone felt the need to make this story up.

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Dragon's Jewel
I Saw Three Shipments


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I've never before seen a glurge that attacked so personally, not counting the ones that go after the stars of the day. I wonder if there's another story hidden somewhere, where the authors felt the need to do this to some random restaurant owner.

And I love how it starts out as "boycott this Arby's owned by this one guy" and was then sent onto people outside the area, and morphed into "boycott all Arby's!"

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Tyger, Tyger burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Hath framed thy fearful symmetry?

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TB Tabby
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Even mentioned him by name...if Bruce Evans is a real person, I hope this gets debunked quickly. This is the sort of ugly rumor that can ruin someone's life.

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I like to go down to the playground and watch the kids run and jump and scream, because they don't know I'm only using blanks.

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Esprise Me
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quote:
Originally posted by Howard:
He may not have been the greatest person in the world, the cleanest person, the wealthiest person...but haven't we all been told...we never know how God is going to come back?

And here I thought there was nothing wrong with assaulting someone who posed no physical threat to you. Thanks to this e-missive, my eyes have been opened: I now realize the reason we don't attack our fellow humans, even the poor, dirty, non-great ones, is that they might be God in disguise.

I tried to find some record of anything pertaining to this story, but found nothing relating to both Bruce Evans and Arby's, nor any news stories involving a homeless man and an Arby's. The only thing I could determine was that there is, indeed, an Arby's at 804 Lake Harbour Drive in Ridgeland, MS, although I was unable to determine the name of the franchisee. I wonder how the people who wrote the email were able to figure out that this guy owned all these locations. I also wonder what their motivation was for spreading what seems to me to be an obvious lie. Did the manager refuse to honor their expired coupons, or what?

Esprise "So hungry I could eat at Arby's!" Me

ETA: One other thing that bothered me. If the entire roomful of restaurant patrons felt that the owner's actions weren't justified, why wasn't he arrested when the police showed up? Isn't that what they usually do to people who beat up others? Or have I been watching too much Law and Order?

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"If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf

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tealstar
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by Howard:
He may not have been the greatest person in the world, the cleanest person, the wealthiest person...but haven't we all been told...we never know how God is going to come back?


I'm coming out of lurking, as I couldn't resist a nitpick:

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory." (Matt. 24:30)

Even allowing for symbolism, the Bible certainly does give some idea of how God/Jesus is going to come back; I believe the big question, biblically speaking, is when.

Maybe the writer should have read the Bible before giving it away?

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Most writers don't actually think of themselves as God.
--Orson Scott Card

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Toys for big boys.
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Stoneage Dinosaur:
How disappointing - I was expecting something along the lines of true faith helping a simple grandmother become a cricketing legend despite having only a stick of rhubarb to bat with.

Its taken me three minutes to "get" that.

The story reminds me of an episode of CSI. Or NCIS. It was one of them. Some homeless dude was murdered because he was hanging around outside some club place and the owner felt he was bad for business.

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Hubert Cumberdale
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My addition is in bold
I yelled "Excuse me, what is your problem?" He said "Mam?" as though nothing had happened. A woman behind me piped up and said "That was just cruel." I told him "that was plain ruthless". He said "If you knew how much business this man has cost everyone to lose around here you would have done it too." I said "No Sir, what you just did to that man lost you business, we will NEVER eat here again." Everyone agreed and told him this was their final visit to Arby's also. He ended with saying "And oh yeah, he's gay" To which I replied, "In that case you were doing god's work. Let's hunt him down and get that bible back before he turns it gay!"

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ChelleGame
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Dunno, kinda having trouble messing with this one, presuming the story is correct, and understanding that's a huge presumption.

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Michelle

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Lil' Molly
Deck the Malls


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One more thing just struck me as off with this item. Do franchisees/owners of fast food restaurants make it a habit to be at their restaurants? I always thought their participation in the business was mainly monetary and they hired store managers and regional managers and such to take care of day to day things at the store. It just seems more likely that the individual to deal with a loitering problem would be the manager, not the owner.

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evilrabbit
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Lil' Molly:
One more thing just struck me as off with this item. Do franchisees/owners of fast food restaurants make it a habit to be at their restaurants? I always thought their participation in the business was mainly monetary and they hired store managers and regional managers and such to take care of day to day things at the store. It just seems more likely that the individual to deal with a loitering problem would be the manager, not the owner.

Well, I used to work at A&W, and the owner would (occaisionally) come in and work, particularly around Christmas when we were really busy.


First thing that bothered me about the OP: Giving the guy a bible. He's homeless, dirty, and probably hungry. He needs EVANGELISM! Oh, yeah, and maybe a snack if you have one handy...

Second thing that bothered me: Random violence. Yeah, so he's been sitting their and suddenly the manager rushes out to kick the crap out of him? In front of witnesses? And then acts like nothing happened? Not likely.

Tfbb: CSI did an episode where a restaurant Maitre'd (IIRC) accidentally killed a homeless guy and stuffed the body in a bag.

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"My sandwich choice is uncertain, until I actually order. It's like Schrodinger's Sandwich."
"Is plutonium involved in this sandwich in any way?"
"Maybe."

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TB Tabby
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Did anyone else get the "Evil atheist trying to stamp out Christianity" vibe from this one? When the homeless man was beat up after recieving a BIble, I assumed he was beat up for holding a Bible, in the same vein as the myth that employees can be fires for keeping Bibles in their desks.

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I like to go down to the playground and watch the kids run and jump and scream, because they don't know I'm only using blanks.

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Zamboni_Rodeo
Deck the Malls


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quote:

As I was there I remembered that I didn't eat my snacks from school that morning either, so I grabbed those too.  As I walked towards the door I made my way to the man and I handed him the Bible and food.

Wait a minute, what? She gives this poor homeless man a few paltry snacks and no doubt feels exalted about doing the "Lord's work," and then goes inside to dine on roast beef sandwiches? I mean, it's only Arby's, it's not like going to a five-star restaurant or something, but still... it seems to me that a homeless man might want something a little more substantial than a few raisins or whatever. As appreciative as he no doubt was, I think he would rather have had a sandwich and some fries as opposed to a few "snacks." Would have killed this glurge-writer to cough up a few bucks for some real food?

--Zamboni "I don't even like Arby's all that much, but it's got to be better than a handful of Goldfish crackers if you're homeless" Rodeo

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Where's the challenge in wassailing at Christmas? The place is lousy with wassail!

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evilrabbit
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by TB Tabby:
Did anyone else get the "Evil atheist trying to stamp out Christianity" vibe from this one? When the homeless man was beat up after recieving a BIble, I assumed he was beat up for holding a Bible, in the same vein as the myth that employees can be fires for keeping Bibles in their desks.

No, from what I got, the guy more or less randomly chose that moment to strike. Like, he'd been sitting there in the Arby's, seething, and rather than do something, y'know, legal, he dinally snaps and springs in action, commando-style. The manager never mentioned the Bible at all. To me, giving him the Bible was more, "Oh, you poor man, FAITH will turn your life around. Yes, you may still live on the street, but at least you can read about GOD!"

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"My sandwich choice is uncertain, until I actually order. It's like Schrodinger's Sandwich."
"Is plutonium involved in this sandwich in any way?"
"Maybe."

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Dragon's Jewel
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
"Oh, you poor man, FAITH will turn your life around. Yes, you may still live on the street, but at least you can read about GOD!"

"Oh, I have to tell you ma'am, I just know that the holy word will keep me from losing my toes to frostbite when the winter hits. As a bonus, I can use it to beat off the feral dogs when I'm scrounging through the trash at night..."

Edit:missed a word

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Tyger, Tyger burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Hath framed thy fearful symmetry?

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Don Enrico
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Zamboni_Rodeo:
quote:

As I was there I remembered that I didn't eat my snacks from school that morning either, so I grabbed those too.  As I walked towards the door I made my way to the man and I handed him the Bible and food.

Wait a minute, what? She gives this poor homeless man a few paltry snacks and no doubt feels exalted about doing the "Lord's work," and then goes inside to dine on roast beef sandwiches? I mean, it's only Arby's, it's not like going to a five-star restaurant or something, but still... it seems to me that a homeless man might want something a little more substantial than a few raisins or whatever. As appreciative as he no doubt was, I think he would rather have had a sandwich and some fries as opposed to a few "snacks." Would have killed this glurge-writer to cough up a few bucks for some real food?
I was reminded of the legend of Saint Martin of Tours - you know, the soldier who gave half his cloak to a beggar, even if he had probably lots of additional cloaks at home or at least would have been able to buy himself a new one?

Don "it's not about helping a poor man, it's about symbols" Enrico

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Howard
Deck the Malls


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Now I'll have to one-up the pCm that gave him a cheap Gideon bible and some crackers.

Krystal's is right beside the Arby's in question. If I ever see this ghostly homeless man (who vanished after getting a beat down)while I'm there, I'll buy him a Steamer Pack of 24 krystals and some fresh undies incase he eats them all in the same day.

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"I believe you believe that, but I just think you're confused."

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btvsrcks
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Hubert Cumberdale:
My addition is in bold
I yelled "Excuse me, what is your problem?" He said "Mam?" as though nothing had happened. A woman behind me piped up and said "That was just cruel." I told him "that was plain ruthless". He said "If you knew how much business this man has cost everyone to lose around here you would have done it too." I said "No Sir, what you just did to that man lost you business, we will NEVER eat here again." Everyone agreed and told him this was their final visit to Arby's also. He ended with saying "And oh yeah, he's gay" To which I replied, "In that case you were doing god's work. Let's hunt him down and get that bible back before he turns it gay!"

I just laughed up soda. Thank you. [Smile]
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Aussie Girl
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Howard:
We wonder why some people don't believe in God.  This man was given a Bible by a total stranger and in a matter of 10 minutes was shoved to the ground by another.  If you were lost and confused about a relationship with Christ, wouldn't something like this put all sorts of doubt in your mind? Like, how could God create such crude people if he really loves us? 

This part here makes it seem like he's being beaten up because he was given the Bible. Aside from that... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?? Who said the homeless man was confused about his relationship with Christ, anyway? Oh, that's right. The self-important glurgist who's handing out Bibles to a starving homeless man. [flame]

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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
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quote:
Originally posted by Howard:
Krystal's is right beside the Arby's in question.

So now we know who probably wrote the glurge.

Nonny

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When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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TB Tabby
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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I just recieved an e-mail shedding more light on this glurge. Did anyone else get one?

quote:
Hey guys,

I am a lurker on Snopes.com, and recently came across this topic. I personally know Bruce Evans, the infamous Arby's owner and target of recent attacks by Carrie Thames. I recently spoke with him and posted my report on my website Rant Ravings. I thought you would be interested in the other side of the story...enjoy!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

MetroCenter Arby's Strikes Back
A RANT RAVINGS WORLD EXCLUSIVE:
Arby's owner Bruce Evans breaks his silence
the other side of the story...

As promised, over the weekend I had the opportunity to personally speak with Bruce Evans, Arby's owner and recent target of a controversial boycott fueled by allegations that Evans violently assaulted a homeless man outside his restaurant a few weeks ago. The uncorroborated story has spread like wildfire through the local Jackson community and around the internet to web forums like Snopes.com and social communities such as My Space and Facebook.

One question still remains unanswered: what really happened that day? Bruce Evans filled Rant Ravings in with his comprehensive account of the road to the confrontation:

[1] The WHITE homeless man in question (specified so no one can use the "race" card) had been hanging around for awhile, long before the fateful day where Carrie Thames claims she witnessed Evans brutalize the innocent vagabond. For almost two weeks Evans patiently provided the man with a warm meal in good faith, refraining from calling the police and encouraging the man to move on. After awhile, customers began to complain about being solicited for money as they entered the building, as the man continued to linger around the premises daily.

[2] Jump ahead to that fateful day two weeks ago when Evans arrived at work and found the wanderer waiting outside the restaurant door. Evans approached him and pleaded for him to leave, explaining that he was trespassing. The "appreciative" man proceeded to spit at Evans, forcefully drenching Evans in his "grateful" saliva. More concerned at this point with washing the projectile of foreign phlegm off his person than continuing to plead for the man's departure, Evans went inside.

[3] A few hours later, Evans was caught up in the chaos of lunch-hour customer demands when he noticed the homeless man standing inside by the service counter. Evans approached him as the man claimed that a customer standing nearby was buying him lunch. After confirming this, Evans advised the homeless man to leave after he received his order. After watching the drifter walk out the door, Evans went back to work.

[4] Sometime after, a horrified young lady enters the building, complaining that a strange man terrorized her after she refused to give him any money. According to her story, the man pretended like he was reaching for a gun but instead pulled out his hand in the formation of a lewd gesture. He had just flipped her off. This was the thread that broke the oven mitt's glove, so-to-speak. Frustrated, Evans stormed outside to find the man. This is where Carrie Thame's account picks up:

"I could see out the window by the cars, a man in an SUV pulled up and was handing the guy some money and as this was happening the owner (Bruce Evans) ran out the door of the kitchen and then outside and threw the homeless man to the ground and proceeded to kick him."

According to Bruce Evans, the sight of the homeless man soliciting yet another customer (the man in the SUV) for money, coupled with everything that had happened not just that day, but over the past few weeks, all came to a head in that moment...and he attempted to shove the man off the property. The homeless man lost his balance (I can only speculate that the man was either sick or highly inebriated, but what else could explain his erratic behavior and weak equilibrium?) and stumbled to the ground, scraping his nose and forehead in the process. There were no punches or kicks or "pummeling" to match up with the exaggerated rumors. Evans does regret giving into his anger and shoving the man, but he was simply trying to protect his business and customers from a man who had crossed the line from civil begging to disruptive harassment.

Evans remembers Mrs. Thames and her promise that he would "lose business" because of what she witnessed that day, and feels that the E-Mail campaign to boycott his restaurant is her way of trying to make that threat into a reality. There maybe no way to undo the damage that Mrs. Thames and her E-Mail assault has done to the reputation of Bruce Evans and his restaurants, but he aims to retain the business of those individuals who have read the E-Mail but were not quite convinced by her side of the story.

I will continue to follow any further developments in this situation here on Rant Ravings, and I would encourage you, in the spirit of the original E-Mail campaign to:

" **PLEASE FORWARD THIS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!"
(to anyone that knows about this situation, that is)




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I like to go down to the playground and watch the kids run and jump and scream, because they don't know I'm only using blanks.

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Nope, I didn't receive this e-mail, but I did click on the link, and the blog actually exists.

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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evilrabbit
Jingle Bell Hock


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OOO! I got one! I was just coming here to post it, but I see I was too late.

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"My sandwich choice is uncertain, until I actually order. It's like Schrodinger's Sandwich."
"Is plutonium involved in this sandwich in any way?"
"Maybe."

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El Camino
We Three Blings


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quote:
Like, how could God create such crude people if he really loves us?
It's interesting that they brought this up...and yet provided no answer. And it's obviously a pro-Christian God writeup.
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NZUL
Deck the Malls


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Very interesting to read the 'other side' of one of those "this place is awful, never eat here again" forwards.

While he can't replace the business he's lost, hasn't he got pretty damned good grounds for a defamation suit? The author of the piece is identifiable, as opposed to the FOAF chain usually attached to these things.

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"We don't keep a certified whale-vomit expert on staff." - Larry Penny, Director, Natural Resources Department, Town of East Hampton

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moonfall86
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Mr. Evans should probably have called the police rather than trying to shove him away himself, but it sounds like this guy wasn't quite as "innocent" as the glurge makes it seem.

I wonder if homeless people hanging around might actually improve business in some cases, if people choose to buy an extra sandwich for the homeless man.

There are a lot of homeless people around here. Some of them get pretty pushy, and it's thought that some may not even be homeless. The manager was more than patient with the guy, but he probably shouldn't have shoved him. Either way, it's not the brutal attack described in the OP.

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Stoneage Dinosaur
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by evilrabbit:
OOO! I got one! I was just coming here to post it, but I see I was too late.

I got one too - it looks like he has sent one to everyone who has participated in this thread.

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"You learn something new every day if you're not careful" - Wilf Lunn

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Artemis
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Lil' Molly:
Also, why is it that in Glurgeland homeless people are *always* good and kind and innocent? What if the guy kicked him because he'd been seen selling drugs to kids the week before? Or leering at little girls?

Eyeing little girls with bad intent...
Watching as the frilly panties run
Hey Aqualung...


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"You can't play Electro-magnetic Golf according to the rules of Centrifugal Bumble Puppy."
-Mustapha Mond, "Brave New World"

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Esprise Me
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
For almost two weeks Evans patiently provided the man with a warm meal in good faith, refraining from calling the police and encouraging the man to move on.
That was his first mistake. It's difficult to encourage someone to "move on" when you're feeding him. I wonder if he actually did that, or if that was a glurgy rhetorical flourish he added later to make himself seem more sympathetic.

I used to frequent the McDonald's on Tremont Street, across from the Common. Homeless people were a common sight there, and as long as they were buying something and not bothering other customers in or immediately around the store, they would be left alone. But the minute one of them hit someone up for change, the manager on duty or shift leader would appear and tell them to leave. For all the gripes I have against the company, they do run a tight ship. No restaurant manager I know would have allowed the situation to reach this point:
quote:
According to Bruce Evans, the sight of the homeless man soliciting yet another customer (the man in the SUV) for money, coupled with everything that had happened not just that day, but over the past few weeks, all came to a head in that moment...
Slightly off-topic, but did anyone else watch the Halloween episode of The Simpsons on Sunday? "If I can keep down Arby's, I can keep down you!" Priceless.

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"If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf

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