snopes.com   
search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello snopes.com » Archived Forums » Photo Gallery Archive » Pit Bull vs. Porcupine (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Pit Bull vs. Porcupine
snopes
Return! Return! Return!


Icon 204 posted      Profile for snopes   Author's Homepage   E-mail snopes       Edit/Delete post 
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/porcupinedog.asp
Posts: 36029 | From: Admin | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
VA Chro
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/porcupinedog.asp

Eeep - Warning - That's one of the more disturbing pictures that I've seen on here... [Frown]
IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Berry Well
The First USA Noel


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Berry Well     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
Oh poor poor doggie.

--------------------
And if she says come inside I'll come inside for her.
If she says give it all I'll give everything to her.
I am justified. I am purified. I am sanctified. Inside you

Posts: 695 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Malruhn   E-mail Malruhn   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
Usually a dog only get a half-dozen to a dozen quills when they attack a porcupine - then they wise up and run away.

It says something about the way a pit attacks and keeps on it, doesn't it?

And VA Chro, I agree - it IS pretty disturbing.

--------------------
Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...

Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

Posts: 5622 | From: Jax, Florida | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
GooglyEyes
The First USA Noel


Icon 1 posted      Profile for GooglyEyes   E-mail GooglyEyes   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
Now I feel bad. I consider myself pretty empathetic towards animals, but that picture made me laugh.

All I could think about was the dog thinking "Yeah, but you should see the other guy!"

Posts: 789 | From: Illinois | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Chickee Daizy
Live and Let Madai


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Chickee Daizy     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
That looks painful! You'd think the dog would have backed off sooner rather than get all those quills stuck in his face!

--------------------
Some people are like slinkies...They don't really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

Posts: 907 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Bluto
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Bluto   E-mail Bluto   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
I've seen a lot of dogs after porcupine run-ins, including a few that never learned, and would go after a porcupine 3-4 times a season.

Sometimes they got quite a few quills, even to the point of making it hard to eat.

(After the first 3-4 times, we stopped pulling the quills. They do fester and fall out naturally. Porcupine quills are actually coated in a antibiotic agent, which helps ward against infection. The dog still never learned)

But I've never seen anything like this. However, being a pitbull - they often have very high pain tolerances, and can be tenacious. I can't imagine trying to pull all those quills.. or what that dog will look like afterward!

Posts: 71 | From: Edmonton, Alberta | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
TB Tabby
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


Icon 1 posted      Profile for TB Tabby   E-mail TB Tabby   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
I saw another photo of a dog that had a run-in with a porcupine on Jay Leno's Headlines segment. It didn't have nearly as many quills, though. This dog looks like it has a sea urchin for a head!

--------------------
I like to go down to the playground and watch the kids run and jump and scream, because they don't know I'm only using blanks.

Posts: 942 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kjbrasda
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for kjbrasda   Author's Homepage   E-mail kjbrasda   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
Looks more like a bull terrier than a pitbull to me.

ETA: kind of blurry but it kind of looks like a nursing female, which might explain the tenacity of attack after being quilled so bad.

--------------------
"Long ago, when we all lived in the forest..."
Who are you? Who? Who?

Posts: 1587 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
rinoz
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post 
I think the real question is 'who was bigger'.

Did the porkupine have to roll itself all over its head or somthing?

IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Dutch Angua
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dutch Angua   Author's Homepage     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
I'm torn between to feelings:
1. Feeling sorry for hurt animals and
2. laugh at persons stupid enough to bother a porcupine

--------------------
Dude, where's my siggy?

Posts: 276 | From: Holland | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Rogue1stclass
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rogue1stclass   E-mail Rogue1stclass   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
Pit bulls and related breeds don't seem to feel a lot of pain in their faces. I remember reading somewhere that they don't have the usual number of receptors there, but it may just be a tolerance/determination issue. Either way, I've seen a cat flay open a Staff Bull's nose to no avail, although such an injury would normally send a dog yelping away.

So, no, it doesn't surprise me at all that a Pit would look like this after tangling with a porcupine. Hopefully the quills were extracted with little permanent damage.

Posts: 195 | From: Florida | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mrs. Chicopea
Xboxing Day


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mrs. Chicopea     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by kjbrasda:
Looks more like a bull terrier than a pitbull to me.

ETA: kind of blurry but it kind of looks like a nursing female, which might explain the tenacity of attack after being quilled so bad.

I was thinking the same thing. This definitely looks like a bull terrier rather than a pitbull. Not that the breed was what was in question. Just an observation.

--------------------
Don't judge someone unless you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then, if you still don't like them, it's ok! You'll be a mile away from them and you'll have their shoes.

Posts: 1300 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
snopes
Return! Return! Return!


Icon 204 posted      Profile for snopes   Author's Homepage   E-mail snopes       Edit/Delete post 
quote:
Looks more like a bull terrier than a pitbull to me.
American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are all commonly identified as "pit bulls." (The article linked here says the same thing.)

- snopes

Posts: 36029 | From: Admin | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mrs. Chicopea
Xboxing Day


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mrs. Chicopea     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
Well, you learn something new every day!

--------------------
Don't judge someone unless you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then, if you still don't like them, it's ok! You'll be a mile away from them and you'll have their shoes.

Posts: 1300 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Spam & Cookies-mmm
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Spam & Cookies-mmm   E-mail Spam & Cookies-mmm   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
I thought kjbrasda meant the English Bull Terrier - the Spuds McKenzie dog - because that was the first thing I thought of when I saw the pic. I've never heard of that breed referred to as a Pit Bull.

--------------------
Did you see the Announcement?
There's a new snopes message board!

Posts: 7767 | From: Paradise Ceded | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
TB Tabby
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


Icon 1 posted      Profile for TB Tabby   E-mail TB Tabby   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
If you think the dog got it bad, you should see the porcupine.

--------------------
I like to go down to the playground and watch the kids run and jump and scream, because they don't know I'm only using blanks.

Posts: 942 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
mnotr2
Jingle Bell Hock


Icon 1 posted      Profile for mnotr2   E-mail mnotr2   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
I second tabby, what's the other guy look like?

--------------------
Infinite goodness is creating a being you know, in advance, is going to complain.
Captain Billy Cutshaw

Posts: 582 | From: Germany | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kjbrasda
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for kjbrasda   Author's Homepage   E-mail kjbrasda   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
Yeah, I meant the English Bull Terrier, thanks Spam.

--------------------
"Long ago, when we all lived in the forest..."
Who are you? Who? Who?

Posts: 1587 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
RayPV
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 302 posted      Profile for RayPV   E-mail RayPV   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
Two more that didn't learn.

 -
 -

Posts: 43 | From: Puerto Vallarta, Mexico | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Joseph Z
Xboxing Day


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Joseph Z   E-mail Joseph Z   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
I would think all those porco pins all over his face would send him to Doggie Heaven instead of standing on all fours like it didn't kill him or put him laying on his side yelping in pain.

If this dog was in the veterinarian hospital, I would believe in authenticity after his euthanization.

--------------------
Joseph Z

Posts: 1356 | From: Woodbridge, VA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
brendaal
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 1 posted      Profile for brendaal   E-mail brendaal   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
i also concurr that it looks like a bull terrier, that was my first thought, but i hadnt been approved for the site yet to post it =)
second, if any dog was going to get quilled that much it would be a terrier. any terrier. terriers are known for their tenacity, not thier intelligence (and yes i love terriers!). they are bred (mostly) to root out rodents and so must be dogged and stubborn to be successful. pit bulls were orginally bred for their ability to hang on after catching the windpipe of the bull till it fell. just google pits and youll see pics of backyard dogs hanging and swinging from tires. most dogs bite and let go to get another bite, pits hang on. bull terriers were bred for essentially the same thing, as were bulldogs. terriers will also "go" till they drop and have an extremely high pain tolerance. which is why pits are most popular for dog fighting, bc the fights are more intense and sustained (albeit, they usually end in death bc of the injuries). ive had to break up dog fights in my years in animal control and pits are the worst to get off of other dogs. they just wont let go, i usually had to spray water down the throat of the biting dog to make it let go (and hope i dint get bit when it did) or tranquilize it.
i have no doubts that this picture could very well be real.

Posts: 48 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Nolly
Fin City


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Nolly   Author's Homepage     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by brendaal:
...if any dog was going to get quilled that much it would be a terrier. any terrier. terriers are known for their tenacity, not thier intelligence (and yes i love terriers!). they are bred (mostly) to root out rodents and so must be dogged and stubborn to be successful.

It's funny,when i first saw the pic I thought to myself "That's what my Jack Russel would look like after a run-in w/ a porcupine!"
Most terriers are tough, tenacious and single minded when it comes to prey or fighting. Jax attacked a skunk and got sprayed directly in the face, but still continued to attack. Afterwards, he didn't whine, or even rub his face-he just sat there!

I would definitely vote real for this!

Nol' 10lbs of raging hellfire 'ly

--------------------
DON'T waste money on expensive paper shredders to avoid having your identity stolen. Simply place a few dog turds in the bin bags along with your old bank statements..

Posts: 102 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Avu
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Avu     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Joseph Z:
I would think all those porco pins all over his face would send him to Doggie Heaven instead of standing on all fours like it didn't kill him or put him laying on his side yelping in pain.

If this dog was in the veterinarian hospital, I would believe in authenticity after his euthanization.

[Confused]

Porcupine quills are not lethal. I've seen many, many dogs with faces full of quills. None quite this bad, though. Depending on the temperment of the dog and the number of quills, you can sometimes just hold the dog down and pull them out yourself.

Two summers ago, my parents' dog had to be sedated at the vet's when she got a good dozen quills in and under her tongue. That was not the first time she had a run-in with a porcupine, either.

I've actually had quills in my leg and not noticed until they were pointed out to me. I imagine the face would be more painful, though.

Posts: 64 | From: Fairbanks, AK | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 218 posted      Profile for Sister Ray   Author's Homepage   E-mail Sister Ray   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by brendaal:
i also concurr that it looks like a bull terrier, that was my first thought, but i hadnt been approved for the site yet to post it =)
second, if any dog was going to get quilled that much it would be a terrier. any terrier. terriers are known for their tenacity, not thier intelligence (and yes i love terriers!). they are bred (mostly) to root out rodents and so must be dogged and stubborn to be successful. pit bulls were orginally bred for their ability to hang on after catching the windpipe of the bull till it fell. just google pits and youll see pics of backyard dogs hanging and swinging from tires. most dogs bite and let go to get another bite, pits hang on. bull terriers were bred for essentially the same thing, as were bulldogs. terriers will also "go" till they drop and have an extremely high pain tolerance. which is why pits are most popular for dog fighting, bc the fights are more intense and sustained (albeit, they usually end in death bc of the injuries). ive had to break up dog fights in my years in animal control and pits are the worst to get off of other dogs. they just wont let go, i usually had to spray water down the throat of the biting dog to make it let go (and hope i dint get bit when it did) or tranquilize it.
i have no doubts that this picture could very well be real.

AmStaffs are terriers. They're not what you think of as the typical terrier, but they do have terrier traits. And they weren't bred to "hang on" to bulls - you're thinking of bulldogs and boxers. If the AmStaff had been truly bred for that, they would have the "pug nose" that those breeds have.

The actual origin of the AmStaff isn't known - most likely they were bred for multiple purposes. One of those is tragically fighting, but there are other reasons.

I agree, it looks like an English Bull Terrier to me. And they are not called "pit bulls" (how I despise that phrase) like AmStaffs, APBT's (the same breed as an AmStaff, just a different name), and Staffie Bulls. They are mistaken for them, but the color, eye shape, and cone head indicate this is a Bull Terrier.

Sister "pedantic about dogs" Ray

--------------------
The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

Posts: 2719 | From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Oualawouzou     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
Someone mentionned earlier that quills just somewhat "fall off" after a while. However, I heard that some species had quills shaped in a way that body movement had them "screw" into the victim, eventually hitting something it shouldn't hit deep below the skin and killing who/whatever got stung. I suppose it's a UL?...

--------------------
Le champignon arrive.

Posts: 4372 | From: Quebec | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
snopes
Return! Return! Return!


Icon 204 posted      Profile for snopes   Author's Homepage   E-mail snopes       Edit/Delete post 
quote:
I agree, it looks like an English Bull Terrier to me. And they are not called "pit bulls"
Umm, yes they are. Dog fanciers/breeders may not like it, but the fact remains that in common parlance, "pit bull" is now a term generally applied to just about any breed produced by crossing terriers with bulldogs.

- snopes

Posts: 36029 | From: Admin | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Missie
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Missie   E-mail Missie   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
Someone mentionned earlier that quills just somewhat "fall off" after a while. However, I heard that some species had quills shaped in a way that body movement had them "screw" into the victim, eventually hitting something it shouldn't hit deep below the skin and killing who/whatever got stung. I suppose it's a UL?...

I don't know about quills just falling out (it sounds somewhat plausible), but there aren't any species of porcupines that have quills that 'screw' deeper into the skin once they've been punctured into something. I vaguely remember hearing that they have barbs that expand with body heat and moisture, though. While it won't make them go any deeper, it'll make it harder to pull them back out.
Posts: 98 | From: Omaha, NE | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Rehcsif
We Three Blings


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rehcsif   E-mail Rehcsif   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Umm, yes they are. Dog fanciers/breeders may not like it, but the fact remains that in common parlance, "pit bull" is now a term generally applied to just about any breed produced by crossing terriers with bulldogs.

It's hard to argue what "common parlance" is, but technically they're different breeds:

Source 1

quote:
Breeds recognized as pit bulls include the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier, although the name is also often used to refer to other breeds of similar characteristics, such as the American Bulldog and Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and mixed breeds that include any of these breeds.

Source 2
quote:
There are several types of dogs that are commonly called "Pit Bulls." Primarly, these are the American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier (AST), and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (SBT). (SNIP) They explain the popular attribution of the breed's origin to a cross between bull-baiters and terriers as a retrospective confusion with the breeding history of the English Bull Terrier, which is a totally distinct breed that was never successful at pit fighting but whose origin is well-documented.
Source 3

quote:
Bull Terriers are NOT Pit Bull Terriers, but they are often lumped together by public officials and the media as potentially dangerous dogs.
-Tim
Posts: 1039 | From: Minneapolis | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Spam & Cookies-mmm
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Spam & Cookies-mmm   E-mail Spam & Cookies-mmm   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
From Tim's first link

quote:
In no way should the pit bull be confused with the Bull Terrier which is a cross between a Staffordshire Bull Terrier and the extinct English White Terrier.



--------------------
Did you see the Announcement?
There's a new snopes message board!

Posts: 7767 | From: Paradise Ceded | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cervus   E-mail Cervus   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
quote:
I agree, it looks like an English Bull Terrier to me. And they are not called "pit bulls"
Umm, yes they are. Dog fanciers/breeders may not like it, but the fact remains that in common parlance, "pit bull" is now a term generally applied to just about any breed produced by crossing terriers with bulldogs.

- snopes

I believe what Miss Chicopea meant was that the English Bull Terrier is a defined breed recognized by AKC and UKC standards. A defining characteristic of English Bull Terriers is their long conical snout with the absence of the "slump" found in normal dog snouts, as well as their tiny, sunken eyes:

 -
 -

Due to the distinct shape of the head, it is difficult to mistake this breed for any other dog, especially since there was at one time an American Pit Bull Terrier recognized by the AKC. However, the breed is no longer recognized and you cannot register your dog as an American Pit Bull Terrier. There is no such thing as a "champion pit bull" - the term "pit bull" has not been recognized by the AKC for decades, but even when it was, the breed was distinctly separate from the English Bull Terrier. The American Pit Bull terrier has morphed into the American Staffordshire Terrier, and the English equivalent is the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. These are what are commonly known as "pit bulls" today. Again, they are distinctly different from the English Bull Terrier:

English Bull Terrier:
 -

American Staffordshire Terrier:
 -

Staffordshire Bull Terrier:
 -

Again, each is its own distinct breed with specific standards. If you are going to refer to a dog as a pit bull, the AmStaff or the Staffordshire is the closest thing, because at one time the AmStaff was actually recognized by the name American Pit Bull Terrier. The two breeds separated, and the names changed, due to breeders on both sides of the Atlantic who argued that the bloodlines had become so separate as to be distinct.

However, any way you look at it, it is wrong to refer to an English Bull Terrier as a pit bull because the English Bull Terrier has never been recognized by the name "pit bull". The AmStaff was at one time, and it descended directly from teh Staffordshire, so it is understandable, although not technically correct, to continue to refer to that breed of dog as a pit bull.

--------------------
"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Shades of Pale
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post 
Those Spuds dogs are about the ugliest things I've ever seen.

While I "ouched" at the picture of the poor dog too, I have to say it also made me laugh. I do hope they managed to get them out ok though!!!

IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 218 posted      Profile for Sister Ray   Author's Homepage   E-mail Sister Ray   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
distinct breed with specific standards. If you are going to refer to a dog as a pit bull, the AmStaff or the Staffordshire is the closest thing, because at one time the AmStaff was actually recognized by the name American Pit Bull Terrier. The two breeds separated, and the names changed, due to breeders on both sides of the Atlantic who argued that the bloodlines had become so separate as to be distinct.

Some disagree with the fact APBT's and AmStaffs are seperate breeds. It's a pedantic distinction, like the four "Belgian" breeds that the AKC recognizes as different breeds, but most people think of as the same breed with a different coat. (To imagine this, think of the Chihuahua being seperated into two breeds, long coat and short coat.)

Sister "did I mention I'm pedantic about dogs?" Ray

--------------------
The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

Posts: 2719 | From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cervus   E-mail Cervus   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
Oops - I meant that AmStaffs and Staffordshire Bull Terriers were/are considered separate breeds. The American Pit Bull Terrier had its AKC name changed to American Staffordshire Terrier, so I consider those the same breed. But the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is different, as well as the English Bull Terrier.

--------------------
"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Simon Says
The First USA Noel


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Simon Says   E-mail Simon Says   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post 
I saw these pictures yesterday in the What's New page on Snopes and last night I dreamt about "Pinhead" from Hellraiser.

Coincidence? I think not!!!

Posts: 624 | From: Kansas | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

   Close topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Urban Legends Reference Pages

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2