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Author Topic: Wanna See a Dinosaur?
DemonWolf
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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
My point was, why isn't the dinosaur itself proof that the photo is staged? Why do the technical components have to be analyzed?

In a trial, if there are witnesses to the murder, why is the physical evidence introduced as well?

Because it strengthens the case.

If I posted a picture of a ceolacanth (before it was common knowledge) the fact the it was beleived to be extinct would have been touted as proof that my (real) photo was faked.
This is the same claim: A creature beleive to have gone extinct millions of years ago is alive and well (or was prior to this photo).
Since the subject is being claimed as evidence to the authenticity, the subject is not enough evidence to refute the claim. We must pile on addidtion evidence that what is depicted in the photo is not what is claimed, or atleast not authentic.
You know that Pterodons have been extinct for millinia, as do I, but now we need to disprove a claim that what we know is wrong.

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gnome
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It's obviously a real photo of a pterodactyl with the soldiers faked in...
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Cervus
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I guess that's my biggest beef when it comes to having to debunk photos that I know are obviously fake. Because it's obvious to me, I automatically assume that the majority of the world would have common sense enough to know that Civil War soldiers didn't shoot down a Pteranodon. Having to explain all the reasons why it's a fake photo is akin to me having to explain to someone why it gets dark at night. It's something I see as completely obvious, and I admit I sometimes don't have patience with people who don't seem to grasp what I think are simple concepts.

Now, many photos are posted here that could *conceivably* be real, and even if I know they're fake I try to explain all the reasons why. But for some reason this photo strikes me as so obvious that it seems silly to me that we'd have to dissect the technical aspects of the photo to prove it's fake.

But if you want to, go right ahead. Like you said, it strengthens the case.

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damsa
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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
I guess that's my biggest beef when it comes to having to debunk photos that I know are obviously fake. Because it's obvious to me, I automatically assume that the majority of the world would have common sense enough to know that Civil War soldiers didn't shoot down a Pteranodon. Having to explain all the reasons why it's a fake photo is akin to me having to explain to someone why it gets dark at night. It's something I see as completely obvious, and I admit I sometimes don't have patience with people who don't seem to grasp what I think are simple concepts.

Now, many photos are posted here that could *conceivably* be real, and even if I know they're fake I try to explain all the reasons why. But for some reason this photo strikes me as so obvious that it seems silly to me that we'd have to dissect the technical aspects of the photo to prove it's fake.

But if you want to, go right ahead. Like you said, it strengthens the case.

It could also be a group of soldiers putting on a play about the Phoenix rising. The photo could be real but the thing in the pic may not be.

Also people who saw a real platypus thought it was a hoax at first.

Also discussing the technical aspects can also show what era of hoax it was. Was it a 2005 hoax, 1995 hoax, 1920s? For simple debunking, yeah dinosaur pic, 99.99999% chance of being fake. But if someone found out someone faked this pic in the 1920s. That would be pretty impressive.

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Rogue1stclass
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Yeah, a Civil War rifle could take out a Pteranadon. They were built more like kites than elephants, and the big, heavy ball of civil war rifles could easily smash through the animal's hollow bones or tear open it's membranous wings.

However, Pteranadons weren't dinosaurs, but pterasaurs, a related but distinct branch of archasaurs. And although they did occupy roughly the same geographical area as civil war soldiers, they were separated by millions of years.

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Bronwyn
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I just showed this picture to my father who is a photographer as well as a civil war buff. After the laughter ended he made a couple of good points:
1) The soldiers are all older and somewhat overweight, they're most likely re-enactors.

2)Photographic prints did not have borders on them during the civil war. The damage should go all the way to the edges.

Not conclusive, but food for thought.

I, too, am a civil war buff and have seen a good deal of photos including the famous Gettysburg and Antietam pictures that were debunked by William Frassanito, but I've never seen this before, nor have I seen it referenced.

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TuFurg
The First USA Noel


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quote:
The poor coloring of the photo is merely another brick in the wall.
I think the point that Cervus is trying to make is that the fact that there's a "dinosaur" in the pic means there's no wall to begin with. [Big Grin]
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TuFurg
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
We must pile on addidtional evidence that what is depicted in the photo is not what is claimed, or atleast not authentic.

Hmmm... so if I posted a pic of Bill Clinton standing next to Abraham Lincoln would that warrant several pages of discussion on it's authenticity?
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damsa
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quote:
Originally posted by TuFurg:
quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
We must pile on addidtional evidence that what is depicted in the photo is not what is claimed, or atleast not authentic.

Hmmm... so if I posted a pic of Bill Clinton standing next to Abraham Lincoln would that warrant several pages of discussion on it's authenticity?
Sure why not. Perhaps, Bill Clinton invented a time machine and went back in time.
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Brad from Georgia
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Or perhaps Bill is sitting next to a really talented Lincoln impersonator. Or maybe the Disney people moved Bill in the Hall of Presidents. It could be an undoctored photo and yet not show what it seems at first blush to show.

But I think if that were a real pteranodon, the photographer would have at least gotten him to smile.

Brad "watch the flying reptilie!" from Georgia

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Drag, the Magic Puffin
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quote:
Originally posted by TuFurg:
quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
We must pile on addidtional evidence that what is depicted in the photo is not what is claimed, or atleast not authentic.

Hmmm... so if I posted a pic of Bill Clinton standing next to Abraham Lincoln would that warrant several pages of discussion on it's authenticity?
It depends on the claim associated with the photo. If the claim was "Bill Clinton with Lincoln picture proves that time machines exist!", then yes, discussion on the picture's authenticity would be warranted.

Why is that? Because the claim is in direct conflict of what we think is "obvious." Simply saying "All dinosaurs died out millions of years ago, so this picture can't be real!" doesn't refute the claim that the picture is evidence that dinosaurs didn't all die out millions of years ago.

So you have two choices:

1. Show that the photo is real, but doesn't demonstrate what the claim states.
2. Show that the photo is fake.

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TuFurg
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by damsa:
quote:
Originally posted by TuFurg:
quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
We must pile on addidtional evidence that what is depicted in the photo is not what is claimed, or atleast not authentic.

Hmmm... so if I posted a pic of Bill Clinton standing next to Abraham Lincoln would that warrant several pages of discussion on it's authenticity?
Sure why not. Perhaps, Bill Clinton invented a time machine and went back in time.
Ah yes... or perhaps Lincoln hopped into one and hit the future. Worthy debate on the matter is sure to follow!
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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Brad from Georgia:
Or perhaps Bill is sitting next to a really talented Lincoln impersonator.

Or Abraham Lincoln sitting next to a Bill Clinton impersonator...

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TuFurg
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Brad from Georgia:
It could be an undoctored photo and yet not show what it seems at first blush to show.



I suppose the question in the OP was pretty much open ended, so when someone asks "what do you think" about something like this, what's to be expected?
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DemonWolf
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quote:
Originally posted by TuFurg:
quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
We must pile on addidtional evidence that what is depicted in the photo is not what is claimed, or atleast not authentic.

Hmmm... so if I posted a pic of Bill Clinton standing next to Abraham Lincoln would that warrant several pages of discussion on it's authenticity?
Either that or it would warrant several pages of discussion of nachos. [Razz]

Seriously, even though no snopester that I can think of would beleive that the pic was genuine, there might be discussion of whether the photo was doctoer, shopped, or whether the two men were guys in costume or were cardboard cutouts. The discussion on how the pic might have been created could go on for a page or two. As is the case here.
The possibilites are:
Authentic - unlikely. I would vote impossible.
Undoctoered photo - Men and "dinosaur" are actually in picture. "Dino" is most likely a prop of some kind.
Doctored photo - Men, dino, or both were added to photo later.

Did I leave anything out?

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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Whether it is an authentic old photo or a modern photo made to look old.

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kenny2424
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Wahet photo are you talking about bronwyn and could you tell me how to see them Please.
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Barns & No Bull
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damsa
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If you look at the men's faces, it's blurry because of the long exposure and yet the elephant's faces are not. Also those are African elephants, everyone else knows that the US Calvary were mounted on the more tame Asian elephants.

Clearly a fake.

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Bronwyn
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Kenny:
I read a couple of books by William Frassanito about Civil War photography entiled "Gettyburgh: A Journey in Time" and "Antietam: The Photographic Legacy of America's Bloodiest Day".

In these books he explains how several famous battlefield photographs were misrepresented; some actually being staged and passed off as real. The most famous one that comes to mind is the Gettysburgh picture "Rebel Sharpshooter in Devil's Den". He located pictures of the body in it's original position and then on blankets before it was dragged to the rock formation where it would make a more interesting shot.

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Brad from Georgia
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quote:
Originally posted by Bronwyn:
Kenny:
I read a couple of books by William Frassanito about Civil War photography .... he explains how several famous battlefield photographs were misrepresented; some actually being staged and passed off as real. The most famous one that comes to mind is the Gettysburgh picture "Rebel Sharpshooter in Devil's Den". He located pictures of the body in it's original position and then on blankets before it was dragged to the rock formation where it would make a more interesting shot.

In the old days, we didn't have this here now fancy Photoshoppy stuff. If we wanted a dead soldier posed just so, we had to take and carry his body our own selves, none of this here click and drag fancy-pants business. And iffen we wanted to put Mrs. Lincoln's head on the naked torso of some tart fer our own amusement, why we had to git out our Bowie knives an'....

Brad "tell that to the young people, though. They won't believe you." from Georgia

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"No hard feelin's and HOPpy New Year!"--Walt Kelly
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TrishDaDish
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We must face facts. These critters have been flying around in our not so distant past. We have filmed proof of it. Exhibit A, if it pleases the court:

 -

I'll go lie down now.

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mgbdriver
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Bronwyn:
Kenny:
I read a couple of books by William Frassanito about Civil War photography entiled "Gettyburgh: A Journey in Time" and "Antietam: The Photographic Legacy of America's Bloodiest Day".

In these books he explains how several famous battlefield photographs were misrepresented; some actually being staged and passed off as real. The most famous one that comes to mind is the Gettysburgh picture "Rebel Sharpshooter in Devil's Den". He located pictures of the body in it's original position and then on blankets before it was dragged to the rock formation where it would make a more interesting shot.

As we told students in Visual Communication class, the reason battlefield dead were used as subjects was simple: Dead people don't move. This is important when you're looking at a 7-10 minute exposure.

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angel-anger
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I can attest that the above photo is fake...in fact I have the "thunderbird" in my laundry room
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snopes
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quote:
It's gotta be fake. Look, the Confederate soldiers are dressed in Union uniforms. Hah, thought they could fool me.
And besides that, this photo was supposedly taken in 1864, but the third soldier from the left was killed at Sharpsburg!

- snopes

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The Goof
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I have seen the elephant.

As to the op the first thing I said when I saw the photo is that those are reenactors(I used to be one) much to heavy to be actual Civil war soilders.

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angel-anger
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Here's the beast resting in my laundry room

http://img198.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mvc015s4uw.jpg
http://img198.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mvc016s3ad.jpg

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