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Author Topic: Wanna See a Dinosaur?
kenny2424
The Red and the Green Stamps


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This picture is supposedly of a pterodactyl shot down in the Civil War by Confederate troops. What do you think?

http://genesismission.4t.com/dinosaurs/Pteradactyl.jpg

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Regina Felangie
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I'm no photography/dinosaur buff, but it seems to me that;

i) This picture would be extremely easy to doctor with the bad quality, imperfections and sepia coulring.

ii) If this was a true happening, it would be a lot more well-known.

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kenny2424
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Yes I agree but still remember this is the Civil War there isn't any type of mass media at that time
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Cervus
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This picture has been posted here before, in much bigger and better quality. It's a fake, for a myriad of biological, paleontological, and historical reasons. First of all, a bird with a 30 foot wingspan would be pretty obvious in the sky, wouldn't it? It's not like they could easily hide, and in order to survive there has to be a large enough breeding population. This isn't a 6-foot biped hiding in remote forests. This isn't a coelacanth living in dark waters where humans rarely go. This bird would have to fly, and if it did, there would be written records and documented evidence of it.

And how exactly would they have shot this creature down? With musket balls?

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Regina Felangie
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quote:
Originally posted by kenny2424:
Yes I agree but still remember this is the Civil War there isn't any type of mass media at that time

I don't get your point. Are you implying that the picture can't have been doctored because there was no one to do it at the time??? If so, that's a bit silly. There was no Interenet either, but it's still managed to get on here... [fish]

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Ovalescent
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It was created for FreakyLinks.com ages upon ages ago.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247095/
http://www.haxan.com/portfolio/freakylinks/

The image was used on the website AND in the show at one point. I'll post again if I can find it.

Edit: Here you go: http://www.haxan.com/portfolio/freakylinks/WWWFRE~1.COM/DIARY/2000/082800~1.HTM

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Regina Felangie
I'm Screaming of a White Christmas


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That Freaky Links thing is weird, I'm guessing it's a tie-in website for the series or whatever, it starts off with Ethan Embry's character and what seems like a normal blog type thing but i checked the latest ones and they're like talking about someone being missing.

Are the pictures on the bits with Ethan Embry from the series? Or did they do all this extra publicity? I really want to see this show now.

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Kabouter
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Aside from the editing marks noted above, I can't help but think that the wings and crest (which differ from known specimens, btw) look very familiar. Anyone have copies of King Kong and Valley of Gwangi they want to check this against?

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Brad from Georgia
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Strange Magazine, which seems to be as extinct as the pterosaur, tried for years to track down the legendary "Thunderbird" photo of some Old West types who had gunned down an enormous bird and nailed its hide to the wall, Paul. This one turned up, and the magazine did an elaborate debunking of it, identifying some of the soldiers as twentieth-century Civl War re-enactors.

Brad "hail, iffen we'd of had them thangs, we woulda won" from Georgia

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Belletrist
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I guess thunderbirds are a popular cryptzoology topic on the 'Net. I have seen no less than two photographs of soldiers and a pterodactyl, and one drawing based upon an alleged photograph of cowboys and a pterodactyl.

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Ovalescent
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quote:
Originally posted by Regina Felangie:
That Freaky Links thing is weird, I'm guessing it's a tie-in website for the series or whatever, it starts off with Ethan Embry's character and what seems like a normal blog type thing but i checked the latest ones and they're like talking about someone being missing.

Are the pictures on the bits with Ethan Embry from the series? Or did they do all this extra publicity? I really want to see this show now.

The show was so short-lived that I doubt it'll ever be released on DVD, sadly. The website was a tie-in bit of publicity for the show, yes, although only a few of the stories made it to TV, the pterodactyl story being one of them.

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valandearl19
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
This picture has been posted here before, in much bigger and better quality. It's a fake, for a myriad of biological, paleontological, and historical reasons. First of all, a bird with a 30 foot wingspan would be pretty obvious in the sky, wouldn't it? It's not like they could easily hide, and in order to survive there has to be a large enough breeding population. This isn't a 6-foot biped hiding in remote forests. This isn't a coelacanth living in dark waters where humans rarely go. This bird would have to fly, and if it did, there would be written records and documented evidence of it.

While there is no doubt in my mind that the picture is fake I would like to point out how I think a creature like that could fly and not be seen. In the Early 80's there was a film called Q: The Winged Serpant. The film was about a giant bird that the Aztecs used to worship as Qutzalcoatl. In the film the bird avoids detection by flying directly in front of the sun thus causing it to be unseen. I believe some ancient culture did something similar to this in order to sneek up on there enimies

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Drag, the Magic Puffin
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by valandearl19:
I believe some ancient culture did something similar to this in order to sneek up on there enimies

Pray tell, which "ancient culture" do you believe not only possessed the ability to sustain self-propelled flight, but also the navigational ability to stay directly in between the sun and their localized enemies for long enough to sneak up for an attack?
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Dropbear
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Ok, let me get this straight.
quote:
In the film the bird avoids detection by flying directly in front of the sun thus causing it to be unseen.
The bird flys so that from every point of perception on the ground it is in front of the sun. This would mean that a) the bird would need to be so high in the sky that all reasonable viewpoints from the ground would see only the suns glare and b)it only ever took off at dawn and landed at dusk.

Wouldn't it be easier to suggest it was nocturnal?

Dropbear

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valandearl19
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Drag, the Magic Puffin:
quote:
Originally posted by valandearl19:
I believe some ancient culture did something similar to this in order to sneek up on there enimies

Pray tell, which "ancient culture" do you believe not only possessed the ability to sustain self-propelled flight, but also the navigational ability to stay directly in between the sun and their localized enemies for long enough to sneak up for an attack?
On second thought I might have seen it on an episode of The Outer Limits. My mistake. Now I feel stupid.

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Barns & No Bull
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When on the attack, at about a mile out, the Quetzalcoatls would start singing Wagner. It scared the hell out of the Aztecs and these birds loved it.

Most interesting to me is kenny2424's source for the OP photo. It was taken from Genesis Mission.

quote:
It is part of the mission of Genesis Mission to help provide Christians with answers to areas where science seems to contradict the Bible. When Christians can provide answers to the questions raised by Evolution, it can remove a major stumbling block to the acceptance of the Gospel.

It is also part of the mission of Genesis Mission to reach the lost. This involves plowing away the thorns of Evolution, to gain fertile ground for the seed of the Gospel.

The photo is found in their section on Dinosaurs still alive.

quote:
This seems to be a genuine photo of a Pteradactyl, shot down by Confederate soldiers during the Civil war. A film crew shooting a movie in the south took a similar picture in an effort to recreate a famous photo, that was believed to have been lost. The picture above (the OP photo) seems to be the original.
Genesis Mission even has a section on Bigfoot!

Some may now want to check out a book by Ian Plimer called, Telling Lies for God: Reason vs Creationism.

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Dondi
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It's gotta be fake. Look, the Confederate soldiers are dressed in Union uniforms. Hah, thought they could fool me.

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mgbdriver
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Fake. A photograph this old would be extremely faded all over. Why are the soldiers uniforms and the dinosaur so black when the forest in the background is so faded?

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DemonWolf
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quote:
Originally posted by mgbdriver:
Fake. A photograph this old would be extremely faded all over. Why are the soldiers uniforms and the dinosaur so black when the forest in the background is so faded?

[devil's advocate] The picture could have been taken in the autumn and the trees and bushes were already much lighter than the soldiers' uniforms. Around here, the leaves turn brilliant shades of orange and yellow that may be consistant with the pic. [/devil's advocate]

I still think that it's fake.

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CandE
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did anyone notice the pic on freaky links is different from that pic?

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Jason Threadslayer
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quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
quote:
Originally posted by mgbdriver:
Fake. A photograph this old would be extremely faded all over. Why are the soldiers uniforms and the dinosaur so black when the forest in the background is so faded?

[devil's advocate] The picture could have been taken in the autumn and the trees and bushes were already much lighter than the soldiers' uniforms. Around here, the leaves turn brilliant shades of orange and yellow that may be consistant with the pic. [/devil's advocate]
Orange leaves still show up as slightly dark in a B&W photo (sepia photos, like this one, are essentially black and white printed with brown ink instead of black).

You can get the white leaves by overexposing those areas of the print (assuming this is a print, of course) either in the lab or in the original film. Overexposure in the original film can result from exposing for a dark subject amid brighter backgrounds.

Another version, at bottom

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mgbdriver
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
quote:
Originally posted by mgbdriver:
Fake. A photograph this old would be extremely faded all over. Why are the soldiers uniforms and the dinosaur so black when the forest in the background is so faded?

[devil's advocate] The picture could have been taken in the autumn and the trees and bushes were already much lighter than the soldiers' uniforms. Around here, the leaves turn brilliant shades of orange and yellow that may be consistant with the pic. [/devil's advocate]

I still think that it's fake.

Advocate: I was talking about the shadow detail and not the leaves themselves. Bearing in mind that if the photo was original, the negative would have been a glass plate coated with an emulsion that was orthochromatic (red blind); anything that was red would show up black on the print.

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Cervus
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You're calling "fake" because the photo doesn't seem to have aged well and the colors are off?

Um...hell-o-o-o...

There's a giant dinosaur in the photo! Is that not reason enough to say it's fake?

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D
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Ya, fake, first off it's not a Pterodactyl, it's a Pteronadon :-D, and second I think after 65 million years of evolution it might have changed a bit more........not a detailed photo i give u.

D

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Jason Threadslayer
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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
And how exactly would they have shot this creature down? With musket balls?

The most common weapon at the beginning of the war was the 1842 Springfield Rifled Musket which fired a buck and ball load (69 calibre ball and some buckshot). The 1861 Springfield was deployed later in the war and fired a 58 calibre minie ball. Both had a range of about 500 yards (though 300 yards effective). That is, assuming a good shot, but most soldiers weren't -- there are many cases where soldiers fired over the heads of the enemy.

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Cervus
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Ok, but do you think buckshot and minie balls could bring down a Pteranodon?

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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
Ok, but do you think buckshot and minie balls could bring down a Pteranodon?

How would hunting a pteranodon compare to hunting African elephant or American bison?

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Barns & No Bull
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Please tell me that this forum has not become so boring that we are forced to lob this offal back and forth.

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VersesBatman
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Threadslayer:
quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
Ok, but do you think buckshot and minie balls could bring down a Pteranodon?

How would hunting a pteranodon compare to hunting African elephant or American bison?
Don't you need an elepahnt gun to kill an elephant? [Wink]

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mgbdriver
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by VersesBatman:
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Threadslayer:
quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
Ok, but do you think buckshot and minie balls could bring down a Pteranodon?

How would hunting a pteranodon compare to hunting African elephant or American bison?
Don't you need an elepahnt gun to kill an elephant? [Wink]
Does this mean I can kill John Travolta with my grease gun?

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DemonWolf
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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
You're calling "fake" because the photo doesn't seem to have aged well and the colors are off?

Um...hell-o-o-o...

There's a giant dinosaur in the photo! Is that not reason enough to say it's fake?

The dinosaur is the reason that we are reviewing the pic.
The colors are our evidence that it is staged. If dinosaurs were a common sight, we wouldn't be debunking the photo, but since they have not been seen in the past 65 million year or so, we are skeptical. The poor coloring of the photo is merely another brick in the wall.

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Cervus
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My point was, why isn't the dinosaur itself proof that the photo is staged? Why do the technical components have to be analyzed?

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Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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Drag, the Magic Puffin
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
My point was, why isn't the dinosaur itself proof that the photo is staged? Why do the technical components have to be analyzed?

Because the chances that it's a real pterodactyl-like creature, however slim, are still greater than zero.
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Richard W
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They're probably less than the chances that the photo happened to be placed in sunlight but just underneath some cardboard cutouts that were exactly the same shape as the soldier's uniforms and stopped those parts from fading... or something...
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Ovalescent
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by CandE:
did anyone notice the pic on freaky links is different from that pic?

 -

( http://www.haxan.com/portfolio/freakylinks/WWWFRE~1.COM/DIARY/2000/082800~1.HTM )

Check my link again. There are two different photos on the freakylinks site. The one you posted was purported to be the one the "author" found, but the one featured in this thread was the one shown on TV.

Furthermore, I think THAT would be the reasoning behind it being fake, wouldn't it? The site itself was fake, created for FOX. The images on the site, I have no doubt, were created for it as well.

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