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Author Topic: MSG
TheBobo
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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It seems for the past 20 years or so monosodiumglutomate has gotten a bad rap. I suspect more is on rumor then it actually being bad for you. People claim to get headaches from it. I know my grandmother used to complain about it. I feel it is more psychosomatic then being harmful.
I use Accent(MSG) on everything and no ill effect becomes me. I eat Chinese food frequently and also nothing. When I cooked for company recently I put Accent in everything and I heard no complaints. I bet if I told them then they would have had headaches.
Is MSG just a harmless flavor enhancer or are people really experiencing bad side effects from it?

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Brother Unwin of Baskerville
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by TheBobo:
I feel it is more psychosomatic then being harmful.

I feel the same thing about my friend's peanut allergy. Jeez, what a faker.
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Rhiandmoi
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^How I feel within 10 mins of having MSG in food.

But I have pretty bad migraines which are caused by sudden or severe changes in blood pressure. So almost every time I eat in almost any restaurant I get a headache because restaurants use more salt than I use at home. However, I get a full blown Migraine if I eat certain preserved foods or foods with MSG.

Whether for normal people MSG causes headaches, I don't know.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

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Debunker
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by TheBobo:

I use Accent(MSG) on everything and no ill effect becomes me.

I don't see the logic in your argument. I and others like me have isolated MSG as a trigger for migraines. Just because you don't have any "ill effects" it does not follow that no one else does, either.

No MSG

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"A minibar is a machine that makes everything expensive." - Mitch Hedberg RIP

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I, too, can get horrible MSG-induced migranes. Not everybody is sensitive to the same things.

Count yourself among the lucky, Bobo.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Casey, making hot chocolate
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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My mom is incredibly allergic to MSG. Not just a migraine, but she's run to the ER after particularly bad episodes. The stuff's hard to avoid, though. Natural flavors, natural flavorings, monosodium glutamate, and, worst all, if it's under 2%, they can use only "natural flavors." [Mad]

I'm not allergic, but it makes it hard to go out to eat.

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"To be or not to be! That is the question! Now, will you answer, dare, double dare, or take the Physical Challenge?" --Mark Summers as Hamlet
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Wizard of Yendor
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Casey, in the study, with the ninja:
The stuff's hard to avoid, though. Natural flavors, natural flavorings, monosodium glutamate, and, worst all, if it's under 2%, they can use only "natural flavors." [Mad]

I don't think that's true anymore. Here, look what the FDA has to say about it:
quote:
(h) The label of a food to which flavor is added shall declare the
flavor in the statement of ingredients in the following way:
...
(5) Any monosodium glutamate used as an ingredient in food shall be
declared by its common or usual name ``monosodium glutamate.''


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TheBobo
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Debunker:
quote:
Originally posted by TheBobo:

I use Accent(MSG) on everything and no ill effect becomes me.

I don't see the logic in your argument. I and others like me have isolated MSG as a trigger for migraines. Just because you don't have any "ill effects" it does not follow that no one else does, either.

No MSG

It looks like the NOMSG Police are no longer in business. Drats! I liked their long list of possible side effects of MSG. Pleaseeee!

The"I wonder if MSG is resoponsible for my rectal itch"Bobo

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Dr. Van Thorp
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I have a jar of MSG from an oriental grocery store. The stuff is in fine snowflake-like crystals. I use the stuff in Chinese dishes, and occasionally in other stuff, and no one in my family suffers ill effects.
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JR
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Van Thorp:
I have a jar of MSG from an oriental grocery store. The stuff is in fine snowflake-like crystals. I use the stuff in Chinese dishes, and occasionally in other stuff, and no one in my family suffers ill effects.

And that proves what, exactly?

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Semper ubi sub ubi

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tagurit
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I never paid much attention to all the hubbub about msg until I noticed that when I pigged out on chinese I got tremendous headaches. If I eat in moderation, I'm ok. I love pork fried rice, but unless it's sans msg, I really have to watch how much I consume.

How come there's no pouting smilie?

TheBobo, sometimes msg doesn't cause headaches, depending on how much is consumed. Sometimes it just creates a general malaise.

tag

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Jay Tea
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Ah. Unami.

quote:
The average American consumes at least 5,000 to 10,000 mg of GLU ( of which MSG is a sodium salt ) daily even if all the foods and beverages they consumed had no added MSG. It occurs naturally in all foods. By contrast, the average American consumes only a few hundred milligrams of glutamate daily as added MSG. MSG is "generally recognized as safe" by the FDA. A 1995 report by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology found no convincing evidence that MSG posed any serious threat to public health.[2] Nevertheless, MSG is believed by many people to pose a serious threat to their health and well-being.
This excellent website willanswer all of your questions.

Basically, don't worry about MSG - worry about your salt intake instead because that could kill you....

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This is where I come up with something right? Something really clever...

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moonglum
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I't entirly depends on who you are, last time my wfe was pregnant she had a micro strok brought on by a combination of the pregnancy high blood presure and MSG. So yes MSG can kill you.
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Jay Tea
The "Was on Sale" Song


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No it doesn't Moonglum - Your statement has absolutely no medical merit whatsoever - MSG does not bring about strokes...

quote:
There is a lot of irrational fear and concern about the use of MSG as a food additive in America. This fear is largely the result of unsubstantiated claims of health problems blamed on MSG. It seems likely that nearly all of the serious health problems and most of the unusual symptoms, which are believed to be caused by MSG, are due either to something else or are psychosomatic in origin. The irrational fear many people now have about consuming even small amounts of MSG is largely the result of a well-orchestrated campaign of food terrorism.



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This is where I come up with something right? Something really clever...

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by JR:
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Van Thorp:
I have a jar of MSG from an oriental grocery store. The stuff is in fine snowflake-like crystals. I use the stuff in Chinese dishes, and occasionally in other stuff, and no one in my family suffers ill effects.

And that proves what, exactly?
Apparently it proves that no one in Dr. Wan Thorp's family is allergic to MSG.

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Keeper of the Mad Bunnies
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Jay Tea:
No it doesn't Moonglum - Your statement has absolutely no medical merit whatsoever - MSG does not bring about strokes...

You may wish to read for content and think about what was written.

In a case where there is an existing high blood pressure case, exasperated by a pregnancy, the addition of sodium from the monosodium glutamate could lead to a stroke.

While MSG in and of itself will not cause a stroke, it can be a contributing factor and must be considered when looking at the entire picture.

Here is the latest from the FDA concerning MSG. It is a little less strident than the site you listed and its comments about 'food terrorism'.

FDA Medical Bulletin * January 1996 * Volume 26 Number 1

James Powell

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Jay Tea
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
In a case where there is an existing high blood pressure case, exasperated by a pregnancy, the addition of sodium from the monosodium glutamate could lead to a stroke.
Oh for heaven's sake Keeper of Mad Bunnies - by that rationale pregnancy plus a packet of dry-roast peanuts can lead to a stroke... [Wink]

...and yes I agree - 'food terrorism' is a little much for me to swallow too, but badly chosen terms do not hide the fact that some folk out there have been getting hysterical about msg, when nothing seemed to be happening to them when they consumed the relatively vast quantities found naturally in foodstuffs, of which they were blissfully unaware....

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This is where I come up with something right? Something really clever...

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theloneabalone
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Jay Tea:
quote:
In a case where there is an existing high blood pressure case, exasperated by a pregnancy, the addition of sodium from the monosodium glutamate could lead to a stroke.
Oh for heaven's sake Keeper of Mad Bunnies - by that rationale pregnancy plus a packet of dry-roast peanuts can lead to a stroke... [Wink]

...and yes I agree - 'food terrorism' is a little much for me to swallow too, but badly chosen terms do not hide the fact that some folk out there have been getting hysterical about msg, when nothing seemed to be happening to them when they consumed the relatively vast quantities found naturally in foodstuffs, of which they were blissfully unaware....

Jay tea, I'm 100% percent on the ball with you. yes, there are some people that may experience an intolerance to some aminoacids (Phenylketonurics react to phenylalanine), but overall, if people were to react to MSG, they would also have to react to foods rich in glutamate, like cheese, corn, tomatos, salmon, and mushrooms. if people that claim to have an allergy to MSG don't react to all the glutamate present in their food, then I have to say that it is a different issue they're dealing with. as for MSG raising your blood pressure, ANY sodium salt will do that to you. MSG cannot be seen as a more dangerous threat than table salt, specially since table salt being an inorganic salt will have more concentration of sodium ions per gram, compared to a larger organic molecule such a monosodium glutamate.


you guys got links, I got links too:
food safety organization, with a table from the USDA, listing amounts of glutamate present naturally in foods.

another page on glutamate levels found in foods.

this FDA article lists the only two instances where MSG can be found to be potentially harmful: people that are sensitive to LARGE AMOUNTS of glutamate, and people with sever, unterated, uncontroled asthma.

notice that the level of free glutamate present in a meal averages out to 0.5g, and it was found that 3 grams or more were needed to elicit discomfort in a person. 3 grams is a huge quantity.

ETA: this picture below shows the difference between salt (sodium chloride) and MSG. both weighboats have 3 grams each. the one on the left has the table salt, the one on the right has msg. do you realize now that 3 grams is a huge amount??
 -

thelone "slow start at the lab" abalone

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num, me vexo?

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Debunker
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by theloneabalone:
if people were to react to MSG, they would also have to react to foods rich in glutamate, like cheese, corn, tomatos, salmon, and mushrooms.

These foods are known migraine triggers for some people. And they are rich in glutamate. Hmmm...

What I don't like is the implication that I'm full of %$#! because I've found through much trial and error what affects my body and what doesn't.

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"A minibar is a machine that makes everything expensive." - Mitch Hedberg RIP

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tagurit
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I wonder if some of you are taking into account the person that adds the msg to the food. I know that I got headaches a few times before I considered it might be the msg. It took a few more times consuming chinese foods with resulting headaches before I figured it probably was the msg. I'm a person that rarely gets headaches but I also do not always get headaches from eating chinese food. I've chalked it up to the times when I've overeaten and consumed more msg than normal. I have also experienced a feeling of general malaise after consuming msg. But, it could just be that the cook was a little more liberal with the msg.

At any rate, I have experienced tremendous headaches from consuming (probably large doses of) msg.

I eat chinese in moderation unless I see signs that say they don't use msg. Some establishments have signage plainly visible and some have it stated on their menu.

I truly don't believe this is all in my head. As I mentioned, it took several incidences before I made the connection.

tag

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Explore, enjoy and protect the planet
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AAMAH

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theloneabalone
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
I wonder if some of you are taking into account the person that adds the msg to the food. I know that I got headaches a few times before I considered it might be the msg. It took a few more times consuming chinese foods with resulting headaches before I figured it probably was the msg. I'm a person that rarely gets headaches but I also do not always get headaches from eating chinese food. I've chalked it up to the times when I've overeaten and consumed more msg than normal. I have also experienced a feeling of general malaise after consuming msg. But, it could just be that the cook was a little more liberal with the msg.

At any rate, I have experienced tremendous headaches from consuming (probably large doses of) msg.

I eat chinese in moderation unless I see signs that say they don't use msg. Some establishments have signage plainly visible and some have it stated on their menu.

I truly don't believe this is all in my head. As I mentioned, it took several incidences before I made the connection.

tag

then maybe you are one of the persons that fit the sensitivity profile. however, do you usually have migraines if you have a glass of tomato juice, or a lot of cheese? because the amount of free glutamate present in these foods should "trigger" a malaise in you if eaten in large enough amounts.
also, consider that the free glutamate load in your chinese dish may not be the result of the cook being too liberal with the MSG. even in an msg-free dish, there could be enough free glutamate to trigger your allergy. consider the glutamate present in the meat, vegetables, and add the amount naturally present in soy sauce or fish sauce (caused by the breakdown of soy beans, releasing natural free glutamate). so even an MSG-free meal will have natural free glutamate in it. that is why I'm mostly skeptical of all the bad press chinese and asian food receives. the MSG in the chinese food being poisonous is almost on the same league as the fiberglass in chewing tobacco.

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num, me vexo?

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tagurit
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by theloneabalone:
then maybe you are one of the persons that fit the sensitivity profile. however, do you usually have migraines if you have a glass of tomato juice, or a lot of cheese? because the amount of free glutamate present in these foods should "trigger" a malaise in you if eaten in large enough amounts.

I honestly never made the connection. Though, as I said, I don't usually get headaches often. I'll pay attention and let you know.

Though, I wouldn't classify the tremendous headaches I mentioned as migraines. I used to get migraines when I was a teenager and I know what migraines are.

tag

Edit: BTW, I have no known allergies.

--------------------
Explore, enjoy and protect the planet
---
AAMAH

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theloneabalone
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Debunker:
quote:
Originally posted by theloneabalone:
if people were to react to MSG, they would also have to react to foods rich in glutamate, like cheese, corn, tomatos, salmon, and mushrooms.

These foods are known migraine triggers for some people. And they are rich in glutamate. Hmmm...

What I don't like is the implication that I'm full of %$#! because I've found through much trial and error what affects my body and what doesn't.

Actually you may be correct with respect to your own sensitivity to MSG, but your NOMSG link leads to the inference that you believe MSG will create a reaction on everybody. I am giving evindence to disprove that. I have repeatedly overindulged in chinese food, as has my wife, my family and many aqcuaintances and none have suffered a single bout of THE MSG SYNDROME. this is as trong evidence as yours, which means nothing since they are all anecdotal and based on our own experiences. there is eveidence leaning towards both sides of the story, but there is definitely not a universal allergic reaction to MSG as you tried to imply with your NOMSG link. on a more personal note, perhaps you shouldn't engage in a discussion if you can't separate factual information from a personal attack. I don't think anyone implied you were full of NFBSK. it's a shame you took it that way.

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num, me vexo?

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G.
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Before I even knew what MSG was, or any known controversy over its use, I noticed that in some Asian restaurants I would get headaches after eating. Nothing huge, just a throb. Never happens in no-MSG restaurants. Never happens with any other food (at least I never made any connection).

Psychosomatic? I don't think so, nor do I care.

G "no MSG please" .

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Debunker
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quote:
Originally posted by theloneabalone:
but there is definitely not a universal allergic reaction to MSG as you tried to imply with your NOMSG link. on a more personal note, perhaps you shouldn't engage in a discussion if you can't separate factual information from a personal attack. I don't think anyone implied you were full of NFBSK. it's a shame you took it that way.

TLA:

First, I didn't take it as a personal attack, but I am tired of the "MSG is good, it's all in your head" crowd, and there is plenty of that implication in this forum. So I am guilty of overreacting. (I have been attacked personally on another forum, it turned out that person actually worked for a pro-MSG industry group.)

Second, nowhere does it say on NoMSG that there is a universal allergic reaction to MSG, nor did I mean to imply that there is. Different substances affect different people differently. Dr. Schwartz and the NoMSG people simply want to educate people as to the history of MSG, how it works, where it's used, and the effects MSG has on certain individuals.

I'm out.

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"A minibar is a machine that makes everything expensive." - Mitch Hedberg RIP

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Mr. Bildo
The Red and the Green Stamps


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...in other unrelated news: little copper bracelets are shown to have many medicinal benefits when worn around the wrist. While they have little affect on some individuals, they've been found to have a profound healing affect on a select few. Leading medical journals and organizations have released countless documents disproving any belief these little copper bracelets have any affect, but many are convinced that they work. Perhaps you need to just be sensitive to them for it to work?

--Mr. Bildo

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JR
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Bildo:
...in other unrelated news: little copper bracelets are shown to have many medicinal benefits when worn around the wrist. While they have little affect on some individuals, they've been found to have a profound healing affect on a select few. Leading medical journals and organizations have released countless documents disproving any belief these little copper bracelets have any affect, but many are convinced that they work. Perhaps you need to just be sensitive to them for it to work?

An ad hom, how intelligent.

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Semper ubi sub ubi

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moonglum
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Jay Tea:
No it doesn't Moonglum - Your statement has absolutely no medical merit whatsoever - MSG does not bring about strokes...

quote:
There is a lot of irrational fear and concern about the use of MSG as a food additive in America. This fear is largely the result of unsubstantiated claims of health problems blamed on MSG. It seems likely that nearly all of the serious health problems and most of the unusual symptoms, which are believed to be caused by MSG, are due either to something else or are psychosomatic in origin. The irrational fear many people now have about consuming even small amounts of MSG is largely the result of a well-orchestrated campaign of food terrorism.


So my wife was in intenisve care with the right side of her body numb for two days because of an over active imagination? Look the most respected nurologist in chicago told us to stay away from MSG and that was the most likely cause of the micro stroke. We also noticied that an prior incident where she had blurred vision in her right eye corosponded with eating chinese food. MSG dose raise blood presure, in some people this rise in blood presure can cause serious side effects.
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Rhiandmoi
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quote:
Jay tea, I'm 100% percent on the ball with you. yes, there are some people that may experience an intolerance to some aminoacids (Phenylketonurics react to phenylalanine), but overall, if people were to react to MSG, they would also have to react to foods rich in glutamate, like cheese, corn, tomatos, salmon, and mushrooms. if people that claim to have an allergy to MSG don't react to all the glutamate present in their food, then I have to say that it is a different issue they're dealing with. as for MSG raising your blood pressure, ANY sodium salt will do that to you. MSG cannot be seen as a more dangerous threat than table salt, specially since table salt being an inorganic salt will have more concentration of sodium ions per gram, compared to a larger organic molecule such a monosodium glutamate.

While people with true glutamate siensitivity will have all these other sensitivities, some people might just get Chinese Restaurant Syndrome. A problem with Chinese food, besides added MSG and naturally occuring Glutamates, is that many of the ingredients are canned, and often in China, and are very high in sodium. So there are a lot of chemicals at work which are increasing blood pressure.
A migraine is caused by the blood vessels in your head "balooning" out and creating pressure points and inflammation. Any headache caused by this kind of action in the blood vessels of the head is categorized as a migraine, regardless of the severity.
The body has natural mechanisms for regulating the blood pressure, however for some people, namely migraine sufferers, these mechanisms are not working at a fast enough pace to avoid the headache.
If you don't get a headache when you eat tons of salt, or chinese food, or bacon, or any other known headache triggers, congratulations. Your body is able to self regulate.
Don't tell the rest of us that it is all in our head.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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theloneabalone
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by rhiandmoi:
quote:
Jay tea, I'm 100% percent on the ball with you. yes, there are some people that may experience an intolerance to some aminoacids (Phenylketonurics react to phenylalanine), but overall, if people were to react to MSG, they would also have to react to foods rich in glutamate, like cheese, corn, tomatos, salmon, and mushrooms. if people that claim to have an allergy to MSG don't react to all the glutamate present in their food, then I have to say that it is a different issue they're dealing with. as for MSG raising your blood pressure, ANY sodium salt will do that to you. MSG cannot be seen as a more dangerous threat than table salt, specially since table salt being an inorganic salt will have more concentration of sodium ions per gram, compared to a larger organic molecule such a monosodium glutamate.

While people with true glutamate siensitivity will have all these other sensitivities, some people might just get Chinese Restaurant Syndrome. A problem with Chinese food, besides added MSG and naturally occuring Glutamates, is that many of the ingredients are canned, and often in China, and are very high in sodium. So there are a lot of chemicals at work which are increasing blood pressure.
A migraine is caused by the blood vessels in your head "balooning" out and creating pressure points and inflammation. Any headache caused by this kind of action in the blood vessels of the head is categorized as a migraine, regardless of the severity.
The body has natural mechanisms for regulating the blood pressure, however for some people, namely migraine sufferers, these mechanisms are not working at a fast enough pace to avoid the headache.
If you don't get a headache when you eat tons of salt, or chinese food, or bacon, or any other known headache triggers, congratulations. Your body is able to self regulate.
Don't tell the rest of us that it is all in our head.

It's not in your head if you are sensitive to MSG, but MSG is not the only thing that will raise your blood pressure. that is even obvious to you ("many of the ingredients are canned, and often in China, and are very high in sodium. So there are a lot of chemicals at work which are increasing blood pressure"), among these you could count sodium benzoate, sodium chloride, sodium acetate, sodium propoinate,sodium bicarbonate, sodium erythrobate and sodium diacetate, all used in the food industry, and most in the canning industry. so , if all these sodium salts are potentially present in a chinese dish made with canned items, foods naturally abundant in free glutamate, lots of soy sauce, fish or oyster sauce, why single out only the MSG as the cause of all ailments? that is what makes no sense to me. but then again, everyone is entitled to eat what they feel is best for their own health.

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num, me vexo?

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the Virgin Marrya
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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from a fortune cookie:
quote:

Life is unkind.
Your request for no MSG was ignored.



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Windows cannot open this file. To open this file correctly, defenestrate, then try running the file again...

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JR
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Marrya. on the beach. with a ring:
from a fortune cookie:
quote:

Life is unkind.
Your request for no MSG was ignored.


I always liked:

"That wasn't chicken"

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The FDA accepted studies that showed that a food was safe for humans because it was successfully fed to fish for a couple of months. The only MSG study that I'm familiar with is often cited as "definitive" but is deeply flawed in it's methodology.

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Semper ubi sub ubi

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Elwood
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Wasn't sure whether to bump and old thread or start a new one, but I keep coming across this site accidentally when I get any a hurry trying to come to the board and only type "msg" into the address bar.

To call this site alarmist is to say the least. Check out the conspiracy:

quote:
The "glutes" [companies who put MSG in their food, alledgedly because it's cheaper,] exert power everywhere through:

Direct and/or indirect contributions of large sums of money to the election campaigns of elected officials
Generous grants of money to universities and medical schools

Generous funding of individual researchers who carry out studies designed by the International Glutamate Technical Committee to promote the fiction that MSG is "safe"

Invitations to researchers to attend international conferences wherein expenses would be paid for cooperative researchers

Direct and/or indirect purchase of advertising in journals, newspapers, magazines, and on radio and TV

Influence of their public relations firms

Harassment of media sufficient to keep major media from airing any story that might suggest that MSG is even potentially harmful

Contributions to (financial support of) organizations like the American Medical Association and the American Dietetic Association

Jobs outside of government provided for those government employees who, during their public service, have not made it difficult for the glutamate industry to have its way. (When staffers move back and forth between government and the private sector, it's called the "revolving door" policy.)

A "good old boy" network, where rich and powerful members of boards of directors of glutamate industry corporations sit on boards of directors of universities, medical schools, major media, publishing houses, and/or associations like the American Medical Association and the American Dietetic Association.

We are aware of no person, institution, or agency that has claimed that MSG is "safe," that does not have close ties to the glutamate industry, or that has not been at least indirectly remunerated by them.

As in all great "toxins, government research is done in such a way as to produce a "not harmful" outcome by design:

quote:
The primary strategy used in most, if not all. . .[MSG] research is to look for evidence of toxicity in subjects least likely to be sensitive to "processed free glutamic acid" (eg. "well subjects" -- people who had never in their lives had any of the adverse reactions attributable to "monosodium glutamate"); to use test materials least likely to produce observable reactions; to use placebos laced with neurotoxic amino acids and/or other substances that will cause identical or similar reactions to those caused by "processed free glutamic acid" test material; to serve "drinks," or a "standard breakfast" laced with neurotoxins with both test material and "placebo" material; to set up protocols that will obscure evidence of toxicity (eg. accepting as adverse reactions only those that occurred within two hours of testing, and those that might be considered mild and transitory, while excluding such reactions as heart irregularities, migraine headache, seizures, nausea and vomiting, and asthma); to allege that finding no evidence of toxicity constitutes proof that their product is "safe;" and to allege that adverse reactions to their reactive "placebos" constituted evidence that reactions to the test material are not reactions to "processed free glutamic acid." To this day, industry researchers routinely.
El "yes, because vast multi-industry international conspiracies are much more cost effective than simply changing ingredients" wood

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"If I didn't see it and didn't know it was a real news report, I wouldn't believe it. I mean, how nutty can you get?"-Pat Robertson Oct 26, 2006.

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