quote:Originally posted by First of Rooster: As for defending property... a man's value to me drops below the value of my property the instant he attempts to unfairly relieve me of same.
My DVD player is not worth an innocent life. I place the emphasis, however, on "innocent."
So a non-innocent life, or life in general, is worth less than your DVD player?
-------------------- All humans are vermin in the eyes of Morbo. Posts: 1600 | From: Minneapolis | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
What is a life worth? The difference between the total positive contributions and the total negative contributions (measured subjectively, obviously).
In that case, logically, I am better off if a thief dies, since he is using resources while not contributing productively, and especially so if that thief's death allows me to recover my property.
Of course, one can go with "every life is precious", and that is not wrong - each life is certianly unique and impossible to replace, so I for one would be hesitant to end it, since I would not want to destroy anything forever, even a bad thing.
-------------------- Fools! You've over-estimated me! Posts: 3745 | From: New York City | Registered: Jan 2004
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Really? Breaking into someone's house is the best solution you can come up with in that extremely hypothetical situation? But hey thanks for bringing the killer and his threat to me and my family.
-------------------- I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret) Posts: 675 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I was simply responding to someone's assertion that there's never a need to break into someone's house. As already pointed out, there could possibly be a couple of reasons. Plus, the fact that it should be clear that I wasn't being totally serious.
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quote:Originally posted by Clarkone68: I was simply responding to someone's assertion that there's never a need to break into someone's house.
But there isn't...at least not without warning. Given your hypothetical situation, the cute blonde girl running from the killer would ask for help, plead for help, and be pretty obvious to the residents that she is in trouble. Even in states with a "Make my day" law, shooting would not be justified. Stealthily getting away from the killer? Then why break into a house, risking noise and waking the residents?
There are no legitimite reasons to break into someone's house.
pinqy
-------------------- Don't Forget! Winter Solstice Hanukkah Christmas Kwanzaa & Gurnenthar's Ascendance Are Coming! Posts: 8671 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:I was simply responding to someone's assertion that there's never a need to break into someone's house. As already pointed out, there could possibly be a couple of reasons.
Where was it pointed out besides you being chased by Freddy? Might someone need to break into someone's house? Sure. Might someone need to break in unannounced, and sneak around in the dark, trying to be quiet in a fashion similar to a home invader? Don't think so. Every legitimate reason someone would need to break into someone elses house I think would also include announcing your presence and intentions prior to and during the actual break in.
quote:Plus, the fact that it should be clear that I wasn't being totally serious.
Yes, we all know when you're being sarcastic or not after 6 posts.
-------------------- I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret) Posts: 675 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jun 2003
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The only real problem I have with shooting people taking your property is when you have teenagers in your house. Mainly because they do stupid things like "borrow" the car at 1 AM and sneak in 4 AM.
When I have children the firmest rules in my house is going to be:
1. If you are too drunk to drive my "borrowed" car home, CALL ME.
2.when you walk in the door, TURN ON THE LIGHTS.
-------------------- ----------- "Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger Posts: 85 | From: Central Mass | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tragic Story: The only real problem I have with shooting people taking your property is when you have teenagers in your house. Mainly because they do stupid things like "borrow" the car at 1 AM and sneak in 4 AM.
When I have children the firmest rules in my house is going to be:
1. If you are too drunk to drive my "borrowed" car home, CALL ME.
2.when you walk in the door, TURN ON THE LIGHTS.
Good point, however all that means is that those who have children that age need to be more careful. The law in general should not change but rather their application of the law.
Its like making guns illegal because somebody who has kids may leave it out and the kid may shoot himself. Guns and kids are a real problem, but the problem is in the parents keeping the gun secure, not with the gun itself.
-------------------- "All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do" Posts: 4774 | From: Virginia | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tragic Story: The only real problem I have with shooting people taking your property is when you have teenagers in your house. Mainly because they do stupid things like "borrow" the car at 1 AM and sneak in 4 AM.
When I have children the firmest rules in my house is going to be:
1. If you are too drunk to drive my "borrowed" car home, CALL ME.
2.when you walk in the door, TURN ON THE LIGHTS.
Good point, however all that means is that those who have children that age need to be more careful. The law in general should not change but rather their application of the law.
Its like making guns illegal because somebody who has kids may leave it out and the kid may shoot himself. Guns and kids are a real problem, but the problem is in the parents keeping the gun secure, not with the gun itself.
I wholeheartedly agree. It is the parent's decision to have guns in the house and ensure that they are kept safe, not the Government's.
If my kid borrows my car and drives drunk, and I find out about it, it is now my responsibility to admit he is not following the house rules and ensure that he can never find my car keys again.
If my kid keeps sneaking in the house without making it obvious that he is there. Then I have to decide if I should keep a gun in the house or store them until he is old enough to understand why those rules are in place.
-------------------- ----------- "Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger Posts: 85 | From: Central Mass | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tragic Story: The only real problem I have with shooting people taking your property is when you have teenagers in your house. Mainly because they do stupid things like "borrow" the car at 1 AM and sneak in 4 AM.
When I have children the firmest rules in my house is going to be:
1. If you are too drunk to drive my "borrowed" car home, CALL ME.
2.when you walk in the door, TURN ON THE LIGHTS.
The solution to this is the second rule of gun safety: "KNOW YOUR TARGET." We don't shoot at sounds or shadows. We shoot only after we are SURE what our target is.
-------------------- "Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle Posts: 14567 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by First of Rooster: As for defending property... a man's value to me drops below the value of my property the instant he attempts to unfairly relieve me of same.
My DVD player is not worth an innocent life. I place the emphasis, however, on "innocent."
So a non-innocent life, or life in general, is worth less than your DVD player?
Life in general is worth more than my DVD player. If I could smash my DVD player and save the life of some starving little kid in Eritrea, I'd do it.
But if Bob down the street just wants to steal my DVD because he's too lazy or too stoned or too much of a dumbass to go out and earn the money to buy one like I did... NFBSK him. His life isn't worth that to me.
Now, if somebody was stealing my food because he was hungry and had no money, I'd let him go. But he doesn't need my DVD player to live.
First "he needs to stay AWAY from my DVD player, to live." of Two
-------------------- "Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle Posts: 14567 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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quote:Originally posted by First of Rooster: Now, if somebody was stealing my food because he was hungry and had no money, I'd let him go. But he doesn't need my DVD player to live.
First "he needs to stay AWAY from my DVD player, to live." of Two
Dvd player can be sold for money. Money can buy food. So yes, he might need your DVD player to live.
Personally, I dobt that if you went down stairs, shotgun in hand and saw a burglar raiding the frige, you'd beleive that he broke in because he needed to steal food to live.
-------------------- Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!
posted
I generally wouldn't shoot a person unless I percieved them as a threat to me.
If they had a weapon at all (knife or especially gun)
Approached me basically at all (I'd rather shoot him then take the risk he's a better fighter then me)
It was too difficult to get an accurate view of his weapon status but a decision had to be made (similer to the OP senario).
However I would withold shooting mostly because of the hassle that would ensue dealing with the police and everything else.
If he is a thief, who knows what else he may do to get money to "live". And for every one guy who is actually stealing DVD players to buy food so he wont starve there are probobly 10,000 who are stealing it for drug money. I personally despise theives and while, like I said, I may not shoot them in every situation, it would not be because I valued their life.
Breaking into my house puts me and my loved ones at risk. What if we didn't hear him and my girlfrend went downstairs? Would he run from her? Or would he try something else. Granted it didn't happen this time but what about next time? Sorry bud, if you bust into my house your life just dropped in value to me, Incedentally if I got the drop on him I may give him a heck of a beating to keep him there until the cops showed up. Get him off the street at least for a while.
Just how I feel, I'd do everything in my power to protect myself and my own, and once that was secured I'd do everything else (legal) that I could to put that guy away so he didn't come back or do it to somebody else who may not be so lucky.
-------------------- "All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do" Posts: 4774 | From: Virginia | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Dvd player can be sold for money. Money can buy food. So yes, he might need your DVD player to live.
I have never heard of anyone who broke in and stole something to pawn so they could use the money to buy food. I think this is a very extremely rare situation at best, and it is much more likely that the money will not be buying life sustaning materials.
-------------------- I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret) Posts: 675 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jun 2003
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Simetrical
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FoT:
If I could smash my DVD player and save the life of some starving little kid in Eritrea, I'd do it.
Does it follow that if you could sell your DVD player and donate the proceeds to one of those "help an African child live for 10 cents a day" things, you would? Because, y'know, you can.
DemonWolf:
Dvd player can be sold for money. Money can buy food. So yes, he might need your DVD player to live.
Anyone living in America can get food for free anyway if they beg enough. If FoT lived in South Africa, now, you might have a case.
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If I could smash my DVD player and save the life of some starving little kid in Eritrea, I'd do it.
Does it follow that if you could sell your DVD player and donate the proceeds to one of those "help an African child live for 10 cents a day" things, you would? Because, y'know, you can.
Good. However, besides the problem a lot of those organizations wasting much of the money, well...
I already work with the Red Cross, and several Masonic charities. I spent my day off this weekend on flood relief. My charitable giving last year probably accounts for the price of a DVD player... I don't keep records of it. But I do my share.
First "and his share, and his share..." of Two
-------------------- "Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle Posts: 14567 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
This thread has certainly taken a turn for the silly. So naturally, I feel compelled to chime in.
1. If someone has broken into my house, I consider them a threat. People who willingly commit a crime will not shy from committing another. The “Better to be hung for a horse…” saying.
2. My property is my property. I personally would like the choice of when to donate my DVD, car, bike to the less fortunate. I am vehemently against those who “help themselves by taking from others.”
3. The outlandish claim that a starving man will break into my house to steal my DVD to pawn for food instead of cleaning out my fridge, pantry and cupboards is, well, outlandish. The starving man is in line at the soup kitchen, pan handling on the street corner or in a shantytown, huffing gasoline fumes.
4. It’s all well and good to nitpick his DVD argument and the truth is we all could do much, much more to help the poor & starving. But it is my understanding that most people who break & enter aren’t poor or starving but teens in gangs/the wrong crowd or drug addicts.
-------------------- ----------- "Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger Posts: 85 | From: Central Mass | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote: 1. If someone has broken into my house, I consider them a threat. People who willingly commit a crime will not shy from committing another. The “Better to be hung for a horse…” saying.
After a brief google search (which only resulted in pages about being hung "like" a horse, I have failed to find the rest of that saying
I dont believe I've heard it, if I have I've filed it away with the rest of the stuff I dont remember until somebody tells me again.
So I'll bite, what is the rest of it.
-------------------- "All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do" Posts: 4774 | From: Virginia | Registered: Feb 2004
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Moosedog
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quote:Originally posted by Mickey Blue:
quote: 1. If someone has broken into my house, I consider them a threat. People who willingly commit a crime will not shy from committing another. The “Better to be hung for a horse…” saying.
After a brief google search (which only resulted in pages about being hung "like" a horse, I have failed to find the rest of that saying [
I dont believe I've heard it, if I have I've filed it away with the rest of the stuff I dont remember until somebody tells me again.
So I'll bite, what is the rest of it.
"Better to be hung for a horse than a colt." This dated from the time when horsethieves were summarily strung up.
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Over here, it's sheep and lambs. Sheep-stealing was apparently a capital offence in parts of England at one time. Way, way back, in the early 70's, I had a flatmate from Lancashire; when he got depressed (which was about once a week, when he got drunk), he would fall into weeping and moan that he would end up like his grandfather, who had been "the last man hung for sheep-stealing in Rochdale" according to him. I would always reassure him that could never happen; we were in the middle of London and the nearest sheep were at least 20 miles away. He always refused to be reassured, for some reason.
Thank you. We will now return you to your normal programme.
posted
While we're on this home defense kick, what's the legality of loading one's shotgun with rock salt shells? It always seemed like a safe(r) alternative to me than blasting a gaping hole in someone's toro or blowing off one of their extremities.
Posts: 2711 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by MisterGrey: While we're on this home defense kick, what's the legality of loading one's shotgun with rock salt shells? It always seemed like a safe(r) alternative to me than blasting a gaping hole in someone's toro or blowing off one of their extremities.
I'm no expert but I'd think that would be even "more legal" (I know I know). If your legally allowed (in some areas with a few stipulations) to actually blow that gaping hole in somebody, surely you would be allowed to use the safer ammo as well, even be encouraged to (if you were going to shoot at all).
-------------------- "All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do" Posts: 4774 | From: Virginia | Registered: Feb 2004
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Martha Washington
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Wow. Why did the guy shoot the chinese kid? Just for knocking at his door? Is there a story to this because it has to be more to this story.
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quote:Originally posted by Martha Washington: Wow. Why did the guy shoot the chinese kid? Just for knocking at his door? Is there a story to this because it has to be more to this story.
I have never really understood, either. (I was living in Japan at the time of the trial [by the way, it was a Japanese kid, not Chinese], and it was a HUGE story in Japan, as you can imagine.)
The immediate reason the guy shot was because he said "Freeze" but the kid kept moving.
But I've never understood why he had the gun out in the first place.
His wife said she was "terrified" at seeing strangers approach the house.
They've never had strangers approach the house before? On Halloween?
The only way it even remotely makes sense to me is if it was after about 11:00 at night (I haven't been able to find anything that tells what time it was). Even then--it WAS Halloween, after all!!
Posts: 264 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Nov 2002
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Here is more information from People magazine, November 16, 1992 (can't link to it). It still does not really explain why the homeowners thought they needed a gun. All the kids did was knock on the door. It was only 8:40 at night, so it wasn't that late. But I have never seen anything that gave any better explanation. Apparently there is NOT more to the story--the Peairs must have just been insane!
"On Aug. 4, Yoshi flew to Baton Rouge to spend a school year with Holley Haymaker, a physician who practices family medicine, her husband, Richard, a Louisiana State University physics professor, and their 16-year-old son, Webb. Yoshi attended McKinley Senior High School with Webb, but after school he studied dance, both jazz and tap. So it was no accident that he dressed up as John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever when he and Webb were invited to a Halloween party about 15 miles away. Webb, who was wearing a neck brace for a diving injury, decided to go as an accident victim and wrapped an Ace bandage around his head, leaving his face visible. The boys drove to a Baton Rouge suburb called Central. Unfortunately they inadvertently transposed two of the numbers. Instead of going to 10131 East Brookside Drive, they walked up to the door of 10311 instead. They arrived around 8:40 P.M. The house was festooned in Halloween decorations, but when Yoshi rang the front doorbell, no one answered. After a short while, Webb says, they started back down the walkway. As they reached the driveway, he says, they heard a noise behind them ''like someone tampering with the blinds.'' They turned, and ''we saw a kid and a woman open the door to the carport,'' says Webb. ''After she saw us and we asked, like, 'Excuse me,' she slammed the door.'' The woman, Bonnie Peairs, told authorities later that she slammed the door because she was ''startled'' when she saw Yoshi and Webb. ''Honey,'' she told police she shouted to her husband, Rodney, a meat cutter at a local supermarket, ''get your gun!'' In her statement to police, Bonnie Peairs said the two boys hung around the carport door. Not so, says Webb. He says they concluded they were at the wrong house and started to leave. As they reached the sidewalk, Webb says, they heard a loud sound behind them, as if someone were slamming open a door. When they looked back, they saw Rodney Peairs, crouched in the carport, a pistol in his hands. Yoshi began skipping up the driveway, Travolta-style, merrily gesturing, his hands held out at shoulder length, palms up. ''I'm here for the party!'' Webb recalls him singing out. ''I'm here for the party!'' ''I said, 'Come back! Come back!' '' says Webb. But Yoshi continued up the drive. ''Freeze!'' shouted Peairs. But Yoshi kept on dancing, perhaps in the mistaken belief that Peairs's gun was merely a Halloween prop. When the boy got halfway up the 40-foot drive, Webb says, Peairs's hands bucked. Webb heard a loud pop and saw Yoshi collapse. Peairs promptly disappeared inside, and Webb began screaming for help. Neighbors called 911, but even though an emergency medical team arrived quickly, it was too late. Yoshi, struck in the chest by the single bullet, died soon after. ''The kid didn't know that you had to fear guns,'' Holley says. ''He was totally naive about any sort of danger.'' Peairs was taken into custody but released the same night because, a sheriff's spokesman said, ''there was no criminal intent.'' He was indicted last week on manslaughter charges, but the Louisiana legal system makes prosecution difficult. Under a 1976 law, a homeowner is justified in killing intruders if he ''reasonably'' believes his life is in danger or that the shooting will prevent a break-in. As it happened, Peairs had been victimized at his home before, when his truck was stolen and never recovered. ''He felt that his family was threatened,'' his attorney Lewis Unglesby said. Still, ''if he had his way, that gun would have backfired and blown his hand off instead of what happened.''"
Posts: 264 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Top Kat: ''Honey,'' she told police she shouted to her husband, Rodney, a meat cutter at a local supermarket, ''get your gun!''
Cause it would have been entirely too difficult to stay inside and call the cops.
quote:Under a 1976 law, a homeowner is justified in killing intruders if he ''reasonably'' believes his life is in danger or that the shooting will prevent a break-in.
By an unarmed kid dressed as John Travolta. :rolleyes again:
I didn't agree with what happened in this case then and it still peeves me. I do believe that this man got away with murder.
Posts: 1198 | From: in the cyberlab . . . | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Martha Washington: Wow. Why did the guy shoot the chinese kid? Just for knocking at his door? Is there a story to this because it has to be more to this story.
I have never really understood, either. (I was living in Japan at the time of the trial [by the way, it was a Japanese kid, not Chinese], and it was a HUGE story in Japan, as you can imagine.)
The immediate reason the guy shot was because he said "Freeze" but the kid kept moving.
But I've never understood why he had the gun out in the first place.
His wife said she was "terrified" at seeing strangers approach the house.
They've never had strangers approach the house before? On Halloween?
The only way it even remotely makes sense to me is if it was after about 11:00 at night (I haven't been able to find anything that tells what time it was). Even then--it WAS Halloween, after all!!
Just to clarify, the incident took place on October 17th, not Halloween night. He would not have been expecting a trick-or-treater or party-goer.
-------------------- When my chin is on the ground I pick myself up, dust myself off and start all over again. Posts: 1765 | From: Greensboro, NC | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by CarolinaGhost: Just to clarify, the incident took place on October 17th, not Halloween night. He would not have been expecting a trick-or-treater or party-goer.
True, it was not Halloween night, which destroys that part of my argument.
But still--it wasn't that late, and the kids didn't do anything but knock on the door. Why didn't they just answer the door? What inspired them to bring out the gun? It just doesn't make any sense to me at all.
Posts: 264 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Just to clarify, the incident took place on October 17th, not Halloween night. He would not have been expecting a trick-or-treater or party-goer.
By that logic I would not expect to see the Salvation Army Santa in a parking lot on Dec. 17 and if I did it would be more logical for me to assume he was a threat to my life & property than some guy collecting money for charity?
[edited to fix typo]
-------------------- ----------- "Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger Posts: 85 | From: Central Mass | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Just to clarify, the incident took place on October 17th, not Halloween night. He would not have been expecting a trick-or-treater or party-goer.
By that logic I would not expect to see the Salvation Army Santa in a parking lot on Dec. 17 and if I did it would be more logical for me to assume he was a threat to my life & property than some guy collecting money for charity?
Salvation Army Santas are routinely out for weeks before Christmas; they're a normal sight between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and something one can expect to see in a parking lot. Someone dressed up for a Halloween party two weeks before Halloween isn't something most people will expect, especially when they're a complete stranger and they come up to your house.
As for the other details of this case, I found this blog entry. (Yes, it is a blog, and thus not necessarily a reliable source of facts. He says he got his information from LexisNexis, but I don't have an account there to verify the information. Still, it's at least a possible explanation of the incident.) (It was the first site I found that gave a different side of the story; if I get more time, I might try to find more information.)
-------------------- "I've allowed my love of gravy to distract from my prescriptivist linguistic crusade!" -T-Rex, Dinosaur Comics Posts: 726 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Just to clarify, the incident took place on October 17th, not Halloween night. He would not have been expecting a trick-or-treater or party-goer.
By that logic I would not expect to see the Salvation Army Santa in a parking lot on Dec. 17 and if I did it would be more logical for me to assume he was a threat to my life & property than some guy collecting money for charity?
Salvation Army Santas are routinely out for weeks before Christmas; they're a normal sight between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and something one can expect to see in a parking lot. Someone dressed up for a Halloween party two weeks before Halloween isn't something most people will expect, especially when they're a complete stranger and they come up to your house.
As for the other details of this case, I found this blog entry. (Yes, it is a blog, and thus not necessarily a reliable source of facts. He says he got his information from LexisNexis, but I don't have an account there to verify the information. Still, it's at least a possible explanation of the incident.) (It was the first site I found that gave a different side of the story; if I get more time, I might try to find more information.)
The point I am making is what is the more realistic situation; 2 teens, 1 in a neck brace the other looking like Travolta at your door step are: A. crazed serial killers B. Kids in costume
How a 30 year with a .44 panics over two kids in costume is beyond me.
Furthermore, I don't know where you live but here in New England, we already have pumpkins outs, decorations up and costume shops advertising like crazy. Public halloween gettogethers start as early as Oct. 1st at theme parks.
The blog makes it easy to exonerate Rodney Peairs if you overlook the fact that he went out to confront the percieved threat.
Finally I would argue that the author who is an American in Japan, would take the American's side of the argument then pick and choose the details that support him.
It would be just as easy to construe of that night as Rodney Peairs being a racist southerner who saw a "gook" running up to him and opened fire.
The fact still remains he killed an unarmed child and since he was a "good ole boy" local, he was acquitted. Now had he shot a white girl or even Webb, the kid with a neck brace, he would have done time, but a local over a foreigner?
-------------------- ----------- "Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger Posts: 85 | From: Central Mass | Registered: Feb 2004
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Bill
The Red and the Green Stamps
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quote:Originally posted by Dark Blue:
quote:Dvd player can be sold for money. Money can buy food. So yes, he might need your DVD player to live.
I have never heard of anyone who broke in and stole something to pawn so they could use the money to buy food. I think this is a very extremely rare situation at best, and it is much more likely that the money will not be buying life sustaning materials.
The time my house was broken into the perpetrator was apparently a drug addict desperate for money who just turned over everything in the house looking for it. He grabbed a portable radio but panicked and threw it in the washing machine and didn't get out with it.
So, this sort of thing happens, the person desperate to buy cash for drugs. But, prople don't break into houses because they have no food and take loaves of bread. I just don't go along with the belied (that this seems to suggest) that poverty per se causes crime. If it did, people in poverty would be breaking in stealing food and necessities.
quote:Originally posted by Tragic Story: The point I am making is what is the more realistic situation; 2 teens, 1 in a neck brace the other looking like Travolta at your door step are: A. crazed serial killers B. Kids in costume
This of course leaves out the *extremely* important detail that one of them *rushed* Peairs. Everything would have been fine if they just left.
Two teens, having just seen you brandish a firearm and order them away. One of them immediately runs toward you. Which is more likely: that the trespasser wants to give you a hug, or wants to take your gun and kill you?
The homeowner believed the latter, and was unfortunately wrong.
quote: How a 30 year with a .44 panics over two kids in costume is beyond me.
I doubt the clothes they were wearing ever really registered. And they weren't "kids" in the sense you suggest. They were college students. Adults. Big enough to overpower another adult.
quote:The blog makes it easy to exonerate Rodney Peairs if you overlook the fact that he went out to confront the percieved threat.
Did you read this part?
quote:And here was the critical error, the one that, more than anything else, caused the tragedy to occur--at least the only knowing error: Peairs went out into the carport. What he should have done was to make sure no one had come inside, locked all the doors and windows, called for the police, and waited inside with his gun, using it only if someone tried to enter. Going out and confronting thugs may be in accord with the macho code, but it is tactically unsound and generally unwise.
quote:Finally I would argue that the author who is an American in Japan, would take the American's side of the argument then pick and choose the details that support him.
Did you read this part?
quote:Please keep in mind that I am not pro-gun--far from it, I am a strong proponent of strict gun control, have been for years, and have debated the issue on discussion groups since the early days of the online services. So I am not kindly disposed to people who use guns irresponsibly, and I do blame Peairs for what happened that night.
He believes Peairs was irresponsible, and caused an unnecessary death, but he does not believe Hattori's death was an actual murder, due to the circumstances. Twelve people who got to hear all sides of the story agreed.
If he was really biased, I'd expect his responses to snarky comments to be a little rude, or at least terse.
quote:It would be just as easy to construe of that night as Rodney Peairs being a racist southerner who saw a "gook" running up to him and opened fire.
Much easier, in fact because to believe this you have to *ignore* some facts, while to believe the blog's and the court's story, you have to consider *all* the facts. I'm much more comfortable with the latter.
quote:The fact still remains he killed an unarmed child and since he was a "good ole boy" local, he was acquitted.
I don't think this is a fact. I think it is an opinion, and an uninformed one.
quote:Now had he shot a white girl or even Webb, the kid with a neck brace, he would have done time, but a local over a foreigner?
Admittedly, the court system in most of the southern United States has been pretty racist well into the 1970s, but given the details of the case, I really doubt you can make that claim here.
Alchemy
-------------------- Thinking about New England / missing old Japan Posts: 2603 | From: Virginia | Registered: Mar 2001
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