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Author Topic: Hitler was gay - and killed to hide it, book says
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http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,564899,00.html
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Richard W
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Isn't everybody, ducks?
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iamlm20012001
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Well I'll be damned!!!! i heard this one on politically incorrect a few nighhts ago as well. It's certainly an innteresting story but I would like to read the bookk first b4 forming an opinion. Could it be possible that the policeman doctored the "evidence"?
And there's no mention of Eva here as to whether or not there's any evidence she may have known or if her love affair with Hitler was possibly just a cover or maybe he was BIsexual or dare I say....Eva was a man???

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Pogue Ma-humbug
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quote:
He refers to scores of historical documents to support his thesis. In 1915, the young Hitler was a dispatch rider at the front in France. Years later, yet before Hitler became infamous, one of his fellow soldiers, Hans Mend, wrote in his memoirs: 'At night, Hitler lay with Schmidl, his male whore.'

From what I understand, other historians have been aware of the statement for years, but for one reason or another have discounted it. This historian is the first guy to take it seriously.

Pogue "and didn't he have just one testicle?" Mahone

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apatheena
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"Ophelia drown in the water,
crushed by her own weight,
and Hitler loved little blue eyed boys,
and drove him to hate"
-Jewel

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Boingo the Clown
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I think it all a plot by evil Bert, before he joined up with Osama bin Laden.
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Kat O'Gory, Vampyre Phlebotomist
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If Hitler was gay, then what about his relationship with his niece, Gelli? Or the fact that he fathered an illegitimate son by a Frechwoman when serving in WW 1?
Some people believe that his paranoia about the Jews stemmed from the fact that his father was illegitimate, and that he may have secretly believed his grandfather to have been his mother's Jewish employer (although that seems doubtful, as his mother married her longtime beau after Hitler's birth).
The question there isn't so much was his grandfather Mom's Jewish employer, but rather did Hitler HIMSELF believed it might be true.
I read an interesting book with an excellent chapter on this very subject; unfortunatly I can remember neither the title nor authour...I will have to try to dig it up.

Kat "There was also a very interesting section on the possible link between Lee Havey Oswald and the policeman he killed outside the movie theatre the day of JFK's assassination" O'Klzmk


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Nick Judge
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I would be initially inclined to disbelieve this, simply because I've heard rumors that every foreign dictator who opposed the U.S. in any way was rumored at one time or another to be gay. Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Saddam Hussein, Ho Chi Minh, Ayatollah Khomeni, Momaar Qadaffi, Fidel Castro, Manuel Noriega...need I go on?

That's not to say that none of the aforementioned ever engaged in any homosexual activity or were true homosexuals; I just think that a lot of it is the result of pro-American propaganda, which is often inherently homophobic...

Nick "begin Osama bin Laden rumors...now" Judge


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Boingo the Clown
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I did hear once that Hittler had a Jewish aunt, and perhaps other Jewish relatives.

I wonder if there is any truth to that.


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Richard W
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quote:
Originally posted by Kat O'Klzmk:

Some people believe that his paranoia about the Jews stemmed from the fact that his father was illegitimate, and that he may have secretly believed his grandfather to have been his mother's Jewish employer (although that seems doubtful, as his mother married her longtime beau after Hitler's birth).
The question there isn't so much was his grandfather Mom's Jewish employer, but rather did Hitler HIMSELF believed it might be true.
I read an interesting book with an excellent chapter on this very subject; unfortunatly I can remember neither the title nor authour...I will have to try to dig it up.

I don't know if this is the book you read, but there's a brief summary of this theory in Norman Davies' Europe: A History, and he gives a paper by RGL Waite, "Adolf Hitler's Guilt Feelings", from the Journal of Interdisciplinary History (1, 1970-1) as a source.

I've just realised that that's a paper rather than a book, so it probably wasn't what you read, but it might be that Waite was the first to point out that particular fact about Hitler...


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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Judge:
I would be initially inclined to disbelieve this, simply because I've heard rumors that every foreign dictator who opposed the U.S. in any way was rumored at one time or another to be gay. Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Saddam Hussein, Ho Chi Minh, Ayatollah Khomeni, Momaar Qadaffi, Fidel Castro, Manuel Noriega...need I go on?


There is no American connection to this story at all. The author is German; he refers to an earlier book written by a German but published in Rome; all the information comes from German sources; even the site where the article is published is a British site. How did America get involved in this?

Sara "we get blamed for everything, everything's our fault"


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odaiwai
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Judge:


Nick "begin Osama bin Laden rumors...now" Judge[/QB]


Ah yes, a man with five wives and forty-two children. Clearly hiding something about his sexuality.

dave


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Kate
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quote:
Originally posted by odaiwai:
Ah yes, a man with five wives and forty-two children. Clearly hiding something about his sexuality.
Yes, clearly he's hiding something - having 42 children is obviously an over-compensation to hide is true sexual preferences!

Kate "what do they teach them in propaganda school these days" S


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Kat O'Gory, Vampyre Phlebotomist
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FIVE WIVES??? Mr. "God's mouthpiece" has FIVE WIVES???
The Qu'ran allows only FOUR!

Kat "But who's got time to read some pesky book when it contradicts everything ELSE one is doing?" O'Klzmk


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odaiwai
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quote:
Originally posted by Kat O'Gory, Vampyre Phlebotomist:
FIVE WIVES??? Mr. "God's mouthpiece" has FIVE WIVES???
The Qu'ran allows only FOUR!


Well, I read the part about five wives here ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1597000/1597981.stm ), but it only mentions that he has a fifth wife, so maybe one passed away already. The part about forty two kids is here ( http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,3049704%255E663,00.html )

This link ( http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/15/osama-qna.htm ) mentions four wives and ten kids.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Check.asp?idArticle=332&r=lkefp says three wives and fifteen children.
His father had 10 wives and 52 kids.

As for the Qu'ran, http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=114839 (specifially verse 4.3) 2, 3 or 4 if you can provide for them.

dave


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waterlily
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quote:
Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Saddam Hussein, Ho Chi Minh, Ayatollah Khomeni, Momaar Qadaffi, Fidel Castro, Manuel Noriega...need I go on?
I think I heard something about Fidel Castro and Che Guvera (or whatever his name is) being gay together.

As for Hitler being gay, who knows?

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An Englishman On Holiday
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
Isn't everybody, ducks?

It looks that way doesn't it ? It sometimes seems as if just about everyone - historical or contemporary, famous or infamous, real or fictional - has been claimed by somebody or other to have been gay. Postive and popular figures are usually claimed by the pro-homosexual lobby and and negative or unpopular ones by the anti-homosexual lobby. I have a theory that you can tell a persons sexual preferences by who they claim to have been gay.
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Cu411
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quote:
FIVE WIVES??? Mr. "God's mouthpiece" has FIVE WIVES???
The Qu'ran allows only FOUR!

Actually, IIRC, the prophet, Mohammed, had 16 wives one of which I believe was only 12 or so.
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Blue
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quote:
That's not to say that none of the aforementioned ever engaged in any homosexual activity or were true homosexuals; I just think that a lot of it is the result of pro-American propaganda, which is often inherently homophobic...
Thats a bizarre comment. It says more about your own bias than anyone elses.

I don't care if Hitler was gay or not...as long as it pisses off the neo-nazis, I'm all for it.

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CMarek
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quote:
Originally posted by Blue:
quote:
That's not to say that none of the aforementioned ever engaged in any homosexual activity or were true homosexuals; I just think that a lot of it is the result of pro-American propaganda, which is often inherently homophobic...
Thats a bizarre comment. It says more about your own bias than anyone elses.

I don't care if Hitler was gay or not...as long as it pisses off the neo-nazis, I'm all for it.

I concur.

But seriously, I have heard about the whole homosexual thing being started back in WWII. Course there were also rumors flying that Hitler himself was Jewish that were untrue.

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Shell Uumellmahaye
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quote:
Originally posted by Kat O'Gory, Vampyre Phlebotomist:
If Hitler was gay, then what about his relationship with his niece, Gelli? Or the fact that he fathered an illegitimate son by a Frechwoman when serving in WW 1?

I also have difficulty believe that Hitler was a homosexual man, primarily because of accounts I've read of his love for Geli Raubel. It does seem entirely possible that he may have engaged in homosexual sex.

There seems to be a need to affiliate Hitler with all of the groups of people he persecuted, i.e. Hitler was Jewish, Hitler was Gay, Hitler was Mad (OK, that one may be legitimate but probably in a different sense of the word).

I've never heard that he fathered a child, though, Kat. Any other info you could provide -- I'm curious.

Shell (curious cat) Uumellmahaye

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Ny Jolie *Summer just odd like me*
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Here's a quick test to see if it's true:
Did he wear a bandaid under his eye??

Anyway...

quote:
Originally posted by Kat O'Gory, Vampyre Phlebotomist:
If Hitler was gay, then what about his relationship with his niece, Gelli? Or the fact that he fathered an illegitimate son by a Frechwoman when serving in WW 1?

Why does it have to be gay or straight? Why can't Hitler be bisexual??

~Ny *YES! I'm being serious* Jolie~

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Jaime Vargas Sanchez
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quote:
Originally posted by Kat O'Gory, Vampyre Phlebotomist:

Some people believe that his paranoia about the Jews stemmed from the fact that his father was illegitimate, and that he may have secretly believed his grandfather to have been his mother's Jewish employer (although that seems doubtful, as his mother married her longtime beau after Hitler's birth).

It seems to be a recurrent element in Urban Dictatorship Folklore. I have heard more than once that Franco's paranoia about the Masons stemmed from the fact that he tried to be admitted in the Freemasonry and he had been rejected.

One version has Franco's brother, a Freemason, being the one that tells his Lodge to "not admit him, because he's a SOB"

Jaime

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FSJL
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaime Vargas Sanchez:
quote:
Originally posted by Kat O'Gory, Vampyre Phlebotomist:

Some people believe that his paranoia about the Jews stemmed from the fact that his father was illegitimate, and that he may have secretly believed his grandfather to have been his mother's Jewish employer (although that seems doubtful, as his mother married her longtime beau after Hitler's birth).

It seems to be a recurrent element in Urban Dictatorship Folklore. I have heard more than once that Franco's paranoia about the Masons stemmed from the fact that he tried to be admitted in the Freemasonry and he had been rejected.

One version has Franco's brother, a Freemason, being the one that tells his Lodge to "not admit him, because he's a SOB"

Jaime

Not a story I'd heard about Don Paco before. It sounds inherently implausible, though.

Conservative Catholic opposition to Freemasonry, as far as I know, stems from the belief that Masons are both atheistic and liberal.

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Hot Sparverius in the Summertime
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quote:
Originally posted by Shell Uumellmahaye:

There seems to be a need to affiliate Hitler with all of the groups of people he persecuted, i.e. Hitler was Jewish, Hitler was Gay, Hitler was Mad (OK, that one may be legitimate but probably in a different sense of the word).

I suppose there's two reasons - one, it makes a nice , simple irony, for those who like nice, simply ironies.

The second reason is more interesting - is the most dangerous person for a minority someone who believes they might have a connection to that minority, and manages to turn their self-hatred outwards? I find that's an intriguing psychological point.

Anyway, as far as the gay persecutions go, I've always understood that they began as a justification for the Roehm purge (one joke at the time went: "Goodness, see what happened when Hitler discovered Roehm was a homosexual. I wonder what he'll do when he discovers Goebbels' club foot?") Up until that time, gay bashing wasn't a big priority with the Nazis, although they adopted it with great zeal when the time came. My own opinion is that they were bullies, and bullies don't need much of a reason to go after someone, other than that they think they can.

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Animal or god?
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Earlier this year in "Der Spiegel" or "Literatur", I forget which there was an article discussing this. My German is far from perfect but it is said that Hitler got "very close" to certain men, including of course Rudolf Hess. It wouldn't be impossible that Hess had a gay crush on Hitler, when you look back.

In Berlin apparently there was quite a gay scene and this included a lot of ex-Servicemen. It was allegedly tolerated in Prussian units. Nazism picked up a lot of its support from WWI servicemen, but generally from Bavarians, not Prussians. Word has it that Roehm and a lot of the SA who were bumped off in the Night of the Long Knives were gay.

There was a tendency to brand every big historical figure in the 1980s gay. The gay rights lobby to improve their credibility, and claim that hatred against them was suppressed homosexuality (an actual Catch 22 to argue against), and the anti-gay groups in order to discredit their opponents as "immoral" by their standards.

There used to be a website called the Pink Swastika which is now down. Generally it claimed that the Nazis were founded in a gay club, by butch homosexuals, who had a disliking for femmes and took that to extremes.

On Richard's wacko page of the week now sadly unmaintained, there used to be a lot of odd sites, including this one and "Gay Nazi Sex Ads" and "Queer Skinhead Brotherhood" . You should have a look at the other ones, particularly spontaneous human invisibility!

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