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Author Topic: "I may not know much about art.."
GravyTrain
We Three Blings


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".. but I know what I like."

Was it Hitler that said this?

Gravy "Blond? Handsome? Blue eyes? I'm 0-for-3!" Train


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Groucho
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Hitler was an artist before he got into politics, so he certainly wouldn't say "I don't know much about art."
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rossdawg
The Red and the Green Stamps


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That's not what the Paris art school he applied to said. They said his art was naive, he was untalented and dull.

Did anybody else hear about those theories that if he was allowed to enroll, WWII and all the associated genocide and mayhem wouldn't have happened?


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Groucho
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by rossdawg:
That's not what the Paris art school he applied to said. They said his art was naive, he was untalented and dull.

Yes, but I know plenty of artists who have been rejected in one form or another...they don't then start going around saying "I don't know much about it." We're talking Hitler's opinion here, not the art school's.

quote:
Did anybody else hear about those theories that if he was allowed to enroll, WWII and all the associated genocide and mayhem wouldn't have happened?

Ditto Charles Manson and his music career. The closest he came to success (pre-murders) was when the Beach Boys recorded one of his songs. He also auditioned for The Monkees.

I wonder, if Manson had become a Monkee, would Davy Jones be in prison wearing a swaztika tattoo right now?

Grou "And what would be in his locker?" Cho


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rossdawg
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Groucho:
Ditto Charles Manson and his music career. The closest he came to success (pre-murders) was when the Beach Boys recorded one of his songs. He also auditioned for The Monkees.

I wonder, if Manson had become a Monkee, would Davy Jones be in prison wearing a swaztika tattoo right now?

Grou "And what would be in his locker?" Cho


I have never been one to bookachow (since I don't know what it means) and I respect you throughly Groucho but....

bookachow


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Ewok
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Wellyeahbut, if Fidel Castro had been accepted for a baseball career....

BTW, I just saw a documentary called The Architecture of Doom which, in its more focused parts, focused on Hitler's meager knowledge of the arts.


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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by Ewok:
Wellyeahbut, if Fidel Castro had been accepted for a baseball career....

BTW, I just saw a documentary called The Architecture of Doom which, in its more focused parts, focused on Hitler's meager knowledge of the arts.



I have seen a collection of Hitler's watercolors. They are architectural studies, showing town plazas, and, frankly, they're quite pretty. They are not masterpieces, but they're a lot better than most of us could produce.

Hitler was ignorant of the history and philosophy of art. He condemned abstract art and detested cubism. He considered such experiments as "degenerate." One of his followers once accused Picasso's art as being "broken glass rubbed into the eyes." Goering (I believe) sponsored an art show of such "degenerate" art, specifically as a "hate event." The idea was to showcase how obscene and ugly modern art was.

Today, nearly all tolerant people accept that art can be experimental, and even offensive, yet still of value in the exploration of human perception. As Dylan Thomas (?) said, the idea is to take the journey, return home, and see the place as if for the first time. Art is a set of "x-ray glasses" that distorts reality -- and reveals truth.

From the photographic exactness of "realism" to the subjective perception of "naturalism" to the emotional subjectivism of "impressionism," and on. Art, unlike science, is not limited by any functional objectivity.

I, myself, don't appreciate (or comprehend) Jackson Pollack. I see his work as nothing more than spilled paint. Is the fault his... or mine?

Silas (most likely mine) Sparkhammer

--------------------
When on music's mighty pinion, souls of men to heaven rise,
Then both vanish earth's dominion, man is native to the skies.


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Dan the Seeker
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
I, myself, don't appreciate (or comprehend) Jackson Pollack. I see his work as nothing more than spilled paint. Is the fault his... or mine?

It's not anyone's fault. That would assume that there was some way you could improve yourself that would allow you to appreciate his art, which is probably not true. If someone can truely appreciate his work as art, that's wonderful. However, there's no requirement saying that everyone must appreciate it.

--Danno


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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by Dan the Seeker:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
[b]I, myself, don't appreciate (or comprehend) Jackson Pollack. I see his work as nothing more than spilled paint. Is the fault his... or mine?


It's not anyone's fault. That would assume that there was some way you could improve yourself that would allow you to appreciate his art, which is probably not true. If someone can truely appreciate his work as art, that's wonderful. However, there's no requirement saying that everyone must appreciate it.

--Danno[/B][/QUOTE]


1) Dunno if this is gonna parse properly in UBB...

2) It might...or might not...be a situation where I could "improve myself" to understand abstract art. There are people whom I respect greatly who see Jackson Pollack as an artistic genius. I don't see anything at all in his work but spilled paint. I must choose between disdaining my friends or considering myself as "missing the point."

The latter approach tempts me, as I have a huge appreciation of (for instance) the music of Sergei Prokofiev, which, to many people, is merely noise. I have taken the effort to "improve myself" to comprehend (example) his Sixth Symphony.

I am VERY reluctant to dismiss any form of art as "noise" because, to me, many forms of art are valid and important which to others is merely "noise."

Example: I can't eat spicy Thai food. That doesn't mean that it isn't an artistic cuisine.

Some art forms require study (i.e. self-improvement) to appreciate.

But that opens up one heck of a circular argument: is it the study that makes the art meaningful, or the art that validates the study?

Silas (I don't know!) Sparkhammer

--------------------
When on music's mighty pinion, souls of men to heaven rise,
Then both vanish earth's dominion, man is native to the skies.


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rossdawg
The Red and the Green Stamps


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What has all been said here is what is beautiful about music and art. Some can be considered crap by some and a masterpiece by the masses and vice versa. I have a decent background in art (fostered by my mother who is a trained artist and years of art education) and I still latch on to pieces which are more representational as 'better art' and still take the same opinion as the "great unwashed" that the later works by Pollock (the splattered layered works) and most of Cy Twombly and some Jasper Johns is the ultimate in overrated mediocrity. I have a large number of friends in the arts and find myself frequently visiting all kinds of museums and galleries and while I understand or appreciate the work or passion that went into some pieces I still find it amazing how people find large blank canvasses with specks in a corner or an arrangement of fluroscent light tubes as a masterpiece. And sure enough, some of the nights we visit galleries these pieces are always sold by the time we leave. Beside the financial investment in such art, these purchases will always remain a mystery to me, as it should because I stand in my shoes and not the buyer's shoes.
At times in all of our lives we all realize that something accepted by everybody else doesn't work for ourselves. I love that fact and that is what makes us interesting.

I have a great appreciation for Marcel Duchamp who made a mockery of what art became in the 20th century by creating a piece called Fountain which was merely a urinal turned upside down and entered it in various expositions in 1917. Here is a page about him http://www.marcelduchamp.org/

He was a classically trained artist who stopped painting and doing sculpture (like his brother) and went on to create a whole new field of readymades (started by the Fountain). He retired from painting at a pretty early age, played chess and created art which questioned the viewer. His last piece revealed after his death has the viewer walk into a dark corridor and look into holes in the wall and see a frighteningly realistic fleshtoned statue of a nude female holding a lamp. It is one of the most debated pieces in modern art.


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Guinastasia
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Speaking of what ifs....Counter Factual History? They did a special about it on the history channel, and there are many books on the subjects of what if? It's very fascinating-what if Stalin had stayed in the seminary?

Anyhoo, Hitler is certainly entitled to call Picasso ground glass in the eye if he wanted to. Too bad that wasn't the worst thing he did....


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