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snopes
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Tenn. Mom, Preacher Accused of Letting Girl Die by Turning to God

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/religious_defense021003.html

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BoogieMan Barrytown
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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Tenn. Mom, Preacher Accused of Letting Girl Die by Turning to God

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/religious_defense021003.html

From the story:

quote:
One last attempt at using faith to help the girl was attempted at her funeral on Sept. 18, when Sherman asked a group of members of his New Life Ministries to pray over the girl's open casket for her resurrection.

The girl did not rise from the dead...

Oh, she didn't? OK. Thanks for clarifying that.

Barry "the headline would be slightly different if she had, maybe" town

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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Further proof that although God answers all His prayers, sometimes the answer is no.

There's nothing wrong with praying for someone in times of need. But when serious illness pops up, then you'd better get that person's @$$ to the doctor ASAP. These things are not to be fooled around with!

- Pseudo "praying for sanity" Croat

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"At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History

God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts.

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Ovalescent
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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http://www.theonion.com/onion3622/god_answers_prayers.html

--------------------
"You're all suffering from trauma because it was so boring in the womb!"

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First of Two
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Sometimes, the answer is "Yes."
Sometimes, the answer is "No."
Sometimes, the answer is "NFBSK You." (See: Job)

In any case, the results are indistinguishable from chance.

Except, I'm told, that people who go to Lourdes experience a slightly LESSER rate of cancer healing than that of spontaneous remission.

quote:
"The spontaneous remission rate of all cancers, lumped together, is
estimated to be something between one in ten thousand and one in a
hundred thousand. If no more than 5 percent of those who come to
Lourdes were there to treat their cancers, there should have been
something between 50 and 500 'miraculous' cures of cancer alone.
Since only three of the attested 65 cures [accepted by the R C Church
as miraculous cures] are of cancer, the rate of spontaneous remission
a Lourdes seems to be lower than if the victims had just stayed at
home." From Carl Sagan, _The Demon-Haunted World_ p. 232.



--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Chimera
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The thing that gets me is that she had already been to a doctor.
"[Clinic workers] took her X-rays and looked for two hours trying to find an orthopedic surgeon and she left there under the assumption [of the clinic] she was going to UT hospital and never arrived there," Lenoir City police Officer Lynette Ladd said. "They called the area hospitals and doctor's offices and she hadn't been anywhere, so they turned it over to us."
If modern medicine is so evil why have x-rays?

This is a very sad story and I can not understand the decision not to seek help, but... is it murder? If the tumor was already basketball size even medical intervention may not have helped. I think this gets into a game of what ifs. If they did seek help and the doctor made a mistake then it would be malpractice (not murder).

--------------------
"The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?"
Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun'

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Ovalescent
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Wow, after reading this, that drowning preacher story in the glurge gallery seems to make a little sense.

"God, why didn't you help her?"
"What are you, crazy? I created some of the best medical care out there for you guys! Satan may be in charge of the HMOs, but I'm the one who created medicine."

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"You're all suffering from trauma because it was so boring in the womb!"

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Crackrzz
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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OMG I was the one who put up the drowning minister joke. It just hit me...

God only helps those who help themselves.

What some people will do in the name of religion. Sickening. [Frown]

--------------------
Stand up, slip on the bathtub floor, fling a hand up to balance yourself, and happen to have your mouth open on the downswing. Voila, a new hole in your face.

-Tabby, on how she cut her lip while shaving her legs.

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Nofret
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quote:
Originally posted by Crackrzz:
OMG I was the one who put up the drowning minister joke. It just hit me...

God only helps those who help themselves.

What some people will do in the name of religion. Sickening. [Frown]

It's even sadder what some people will do to others in the name of religion.

If you want to play dice with your health and refuse medical treatment--that's your choice, you're an adult. But don't make that choice for your kid.

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Animal or god?
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OT I've heard it often said that there's no cure for cancer... in fact there are a number for various cancers now, if the affected area is removed quick enough. There's also a kind of medicine being developed now to attack cancerous cells. So there is a cure for many cancers now. Thank god.

JK "Christian Science scares me" Will

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Elbe
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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This is also off topic, but I was just reminded of it.

My most recent personaly motto is"
"If you wait long engough eventually everyone will get cancer. So the trick is dying before you develop it."

It's pretty pessimistic, but not everyone realizes you can pretty much get cancer from everything.

--------------------
Nobody loves Elbe...
-The Adventure of the Avatar Tutorials (3/29)

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Grand Illusion
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Animal or god?:
Fine is the line 'twixt voodoo & acupuncture.

quote:
Originally posted by Chimera:
This is a very sad story and I can not understand the decision not to seek help, but... is it murder?

Actually, these statements really express my feelings on the subject. I agree that what the parents did was wrong, bordering on deplorable, and that they were exhibiting cultlike behavior.

However, here is a concern I have. The queston is why do we criticize the parents? At what point do we call a particular treatment insufficent? What's the difference between choosing a non-traditional treatment and "child abuse?" Effectiveness of the treatment? What if the family had chosen to combat the cancer with diet alone? What if they resorted to Eastern medicine alone? What if they accepted hospitalization but refused chemotherapy? What if the doctors had recommended an experimental treatment and they refused that? Do we require that every sick child be given a "traditional" treatment? Do we call parents abusive because they didn't exhaust all avenues?

--------------------
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.

"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?" - The Brain

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Penguinops
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quote:
Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat:


There's nothing wrong with praying for someone in times of need. But when serious illness pops up, then you'd better get that person's @$$ to the doctor ASAP.

I can't begin to fathom why some people don't understand this. This took place in my hometown! I'm not surprised that there are people there who believe in rising from the dead. Why do you think I moved?

Seriously, this is very sad and frustrating. The technology and medicine exist for this girl to have possibly gotten well. If only she had been brought to the clinic sooner--the tumor was "basketball-sized" when it was first examined. It's not like the mother couldn't tell something was wrong.

I hope this case serves as an example to other parents who don't rely on modern medicine. That minister needs to be put away now before he kills any more children.

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Fusca 1976
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by GrandIllusion:
Do we call parents abusive because they didn't exhaust all avenues?

If such avenues existed, and were affordably, yes, we call them "abusive", if we are trying to be euphemistic - else we call them murderers. "Ifs" like "would the physicians be able to heal the child" must be discarded - their crime was not trying to save their child. Criminal omission, not just "negligence".

Luís Henrique

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The Vorlon Ambassador's Aide
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I disagree strongly with the judge and DA in this case.

If the daughter chose not to seek medical treatment (which we'll now never know for certain, since the judge refused to allow her to be interviewed), the mother should have honored her choice.

The DA states that the girl's desires were irrelevant and that the parents have the responsibility to decide. For a 15-year-old girl? I don't think so.

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