snopes.com Post new topic  Post a reply
search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello snopes.com » Archived Forums » Urban Legends Archive » Woe the future generations...???

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Woe the future generations...???
Elvhenk
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
How bout this UL? Anywhere near true?? I didn't think so!
I am new btw, nice to see y'all!

******

There is research starting just now on the cause of the rise in male sterility and they have a pretty good idea what it is. The water you are drinking.. Sad but true the following is the cycle..

Women taking birth control pills flood thier body with hormone and chemicals. They then flush this through thier waste system and these chemicals enter the sewage. Sewage is then treated but these chemicals are not removed. Later on this water finds its way back to the water table and in many instances your drinking water. Presto you are taking birth control pills chemicals and they are killing your sperm..

Please if anyone finds info on this let me know, this is a pretty scary side effect, and ladies if you can use condoms with your man instead.. I for one plan on having children someday.. Thanks


IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
barticle
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 13 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Not likely, since BC pills have only been around since the 60's. The decline in sperm count goes back to the 1940's. It's a world-wide phenomenon with some exceptions, such as Finland.

\\\\\\\\\barticle


IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
tdn
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


Icon 19 posted      Profile for tdn   E-mail tdn   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
FWIU, birth control pills work because they simulate pregnancy - a woman can't get pregnant when she's already pregnant, and the pill fools the body into thinking that it's already got a bun in the oven. Somehow I doubt that this would have any effect on men.

t "except for the cravings" dn


Posts: 3800 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Kathy B
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kathy B     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Early Estrogen Exposure Affects Reproductive Systems. Research at the U of Texas, Houston showed that test animals exposed to estrogens at an early age showed changed in reproductive organs.
quote:
"We are exposed to estrogenic compounds in our environment through things such as drinking water, diet, plastics/packaging materials, plants and detergents, and these compounds may have an effect on the developing reproductive system," [the researcher] said. "By studying these compounds, we try to learn how environmental estrogens act, and at which developmental stages the reproductive organs are the most sensitive to these compounds."[emphasis added]

And a research article:
TITLE: Environmental oestrogens--present understanding.
AUTHORS: Turner KJ; Sharpe RM
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: MRC Reproductive Biology Unit, Centre for Reproductive Biology, Edinburgh, UK.
SOURCE: Rev Reprod 1997 May;2(2):69-73
CITATION IDS: PMID: 9414467 UI: 98065011
ABSTRACT: Three years ago it was hypothesized that the reported adverse changes in male reproductive health could be explained by exposure to compounds with oestrogenic (or other hormone disruptive) activity. Although this issue has been highly publicized, there has been little progress towards a realistic assessment of whether environmental oestrogens pose a health risk to humans. This article attempts to give a brief overview of the current status of knowledge concerning environmental oestrogens and highlights some of the difficulties associated with risk assessment. Compounds within several major groups of chemicals, including organochlorine pesticides, polychlorinated biphenyls, phenolic compounds and phthalate esters, have been identified as being weakly oestrogenic by in vitro and in vivo screening methods. Many of these compounds are widespread and persistent in the environment. They are likely to be present in the food chain, drinking water, plastics, household products and food packaging, although which is the most important route of human exposure is unclear. In addition to exposure to man-made chemicals, the consumption of plant-derived oestrogens in foodstuffs poses a potential risk to human health as phytoestrogens are more potent oestrogens and their intake by some infants is likely to be considerable.

I found a number of valid citations that compounds derived from birth control pills have been found in drinking water. Much of the concern about male fertiltity dereives from these kinds of reports

quote:
"The apparent drop in the sperm count is so sudden and steep that it has caused some scientists to wonder whether the human species is approaching a fertility crisis," reports Lawrence Wright in THE NEW YORKER. Sperm counts of men in the US and 20 other countries have fallen by about 50% since 1938, according to Danish researcher Niels Skakkebaek (GREENWIRE 3/16/94). Other researchers have confirmed the trend (GREENWIRE 2/2/95).

"In Skakkebaek's opinion, the most likely villains are chemicals in the environment which masquerade as estrogen, the female hormone. These chemicals can cause permanent damage in boys whose sexual organs are not yet fully developed." Richard Sharpe of the Medical Research Council in Edinburgh has linked "environmental estrogens" from common chemicals -- some of which are in the human diet -- to smaller-than-average testes in rat pups and lower sperm production in rats.


However, there have been recent reports refuting this supposed decline in sperm count. (I can't find a good citation--anyone got access to Lexus/Nexus?) So I'd say, yes, it's been hypothesized but not proven that estrogens birth control pills are getting into drinking water & causing problems for men.

You will find all sorts of theories about this issue--including "endocrine disruption" as a result of other chemical pollutioon. And I have no idea why searches on this subject kept coming up with sites featuring "Sexy Russian Girls".

Kathy "Russian off to work" B.

------------------
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."
Mike Quear, US Congressional staffer


Posts: 4255 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Grand Illusion
Jingle Bell Hock


Icon 08 posted      Profile for Grand Illusion   Author's Homepage   E-mail Grand Illusion   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
The effects of significant amouints of estrogen on males would include breast development as well as sterility. Since I don't see many men walking around with boobs, it's probably safe to assume that the amounts of estrogen in our water tables are insignificant.

-Grand("I'm sticking to bottled water just the same")Illusion


Posts: 587 | From: Colorado | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Bob McClenon
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 

I am skeptical of any theory that reduced male sperm count is due to estrogens as such. What seems more plausible is that both reduced male sperm count and the long-term drop in the age of menarche may be due partly to trace pollutants whose effects are SIMILAR to those of estrogens. First, as one poster pointed out, exposure to true mammalian estrogens has other effects on male mammals besides reducing the sperm count, including effects generally known as feminization. Sperm count is declining, but I have not read or seen reports of a serious increase in the incidence of feminization in males.

Second, the idea that birth control pills, or estrogen supplements after menopause, would result in estrogen pollution in water is implausible and silly. Birth control pills and estrogen supplements are taken by mouth, not dumped directly into the water supply. They are then metabolized by the woman taking them in the same way as natural estrogen from her ovaries would be. I don't find it plausible that birth control pills cause the urine of women taking them to pollute the water supply, because I see no evidence that urine from normally fertile women pollutes the water supply with estrogen.

What is more plausible would seem to be that trace chemical waste products may mimic some but not all of the effects of estrogen, in reducing fertility in men and causing younger fertility in women. This hypothesis is sometimes called the 'xeno-estrogen' or 'crypto-estrogen' hypothesis. If this hypothesis is true, the xeno-estrogen is NOT a product of the pharmaceutical industry, but more likely of chemical engineering.

That is only a hypothesis, but it makes more sense than blaming pharmaceutical estrogen, which is taken internally, not dumped into the water.

- - Bob McClenon


IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Hutch
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 06 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Can I assume the reduction of sperm counts have been scientifically proven and already debunked? I have a hard time believing a large enough section of the population has been tested long enough to make such a claim accurate.

If it is true, one could claim the cause to be most anything, from planetary movement to global warming, and somebody will jump on the bandwagon.

A friend of mine is an engineer at my local waterworks. I can't wait to tell him this story!

Of course, no low-count problems here.

Hutch


IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Kate
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


Icon 03 posted      Profile for Kate   E-mail Kate   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hutch:
Can I assume the reduction of sperm counts have been scientifically proven and already debunked?

I was about to write a scornful "everyone know that" reply when I thought I'd just check, and to my surprise STAT has debunked this:

quote:
What's the evidence for our supposed imminent inability to reproduce? Some localized studies do indeed show a decline in sperm counts (though others report no change and even increases). The chief basis for the concern, though, is a 1992 article in the British Medical Journal ("Evidence for Decreasing Quality of Semen During [the] Past 50 Years") that compiled and analyzed 61 studies of sperm counts undertaken between 1938 and 1991: putting the results of these studies together, the article found "a significant decline in mean sperm count," which is said to have dropped from 113 million sperm per milliliter of semen in 1940 to 66 million sperm per milliliter of semen in 1990.
{SNIP}
What has received less attention, though, is a devastating methodological critique of the BMJ article that appeared in 1995 in the specialized journal Fertility and Sterility. As the critique explained, if valid conclusions are to be drawn from a compilation of assorted studies, roughly comparable numbers of men would have had to be tested in the early, middle, and late years under consideration. In fact, 48 of the 61 studies were from after 1970; only 596 of the 14,947 subjects (4.0 percent) were tested before 1950, only 1,184 (7.9 percent) were tested between 1950 and 1970, and 13,167 (88.1 percent) were tested after 1970. Thus not enough data were available from before 1970 to make possible a persuasive comparison with the post-1970 findings.

And when the post-1970 studies are examined by themselves, they show an actual increase in sperm counts between 1970 and 1990. {SNIP}


There are various learned papers both for and against the claim that sperm counts have declined (a Google search on "sperm count fall") produced plenty.

So thanks for your scepticism, Hutch. When will I ever learn to question everything?

Kate "but it must be true if a doctor says it" S.

[This message has been edited by Kate (edited 09-06-2000).]


Posts: 2451 | From: Hong Kong/Cairns | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Hutch
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 06 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
When will I ever learn to question everything?

That's OK, Kate. Not long ago, the wonderful little independant software company I work for was taken over by a gigantic defense contractor. They told us they were going to be completely hands off and we would remain the same. I believed them.

As of January 1st, the old software company will cease to exist and I'm now looking for another job. I expect it's a running gag that the office Urban Legend expert was fooled so easily.

Hutch


IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Daryn Voss
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
In case anyone is still not sure...

The hormones don't last indefinitely in a hydrous environment, but even if they did, the only way they could get from the sewerage in the sea back into the drinking water is if they evaporated.

This is not possible. The molecular weight of the hormones is much too high.


IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
spooky_rk
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 01 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Daryn Voss:
In case anyone is still not sure...

The hormones don't last indefinitely in a hydrous environment, but even if they did, the only way they could get from the sewerage in the sea back into the drinking water is if they evaporated.

This is not possible. The molecular weight of the hormones is much too high.


Not everyone has ocean outfall Daryn. The hormones finding their way into the water table from land-based sewage disposal might still be an issue. Your first point addresses that, though.

Spooky "only two things you should beware, don't drink the water and don't breathe the air*" RK

* points to the one who can pick the quote.


IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
noreen
We Three Blings


Icon 1 posted      Profile for noreen     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Spooky "only two things you should beware, don't drink the water and don't breathe the air*" RK

* points to the one who can pick the quote.

Tom Lehrer

Pollution, pollution, we've got smog and sewage and mud.
Turn on the tap, and get hot and cold running crud.


Posts: 1112 | From: Ohio | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Kate
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kate   E-mail Kate   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Sorry to resurrect an old topic, but I wanted to share this new take on the male infertility question from the BBC:

quote:
Scientists believe disposable nappies could be linked to both male infertility and testicular cancer.
Research carried out in Germany suggests that disposable nappies may have an adverse affect on the development of a boy's reproductive system.

Scientists at the University of Kiel found that the plastic lining in these nappies increased the temperature of the scrotum by one degree.

High scrotal temperatures are known to reduce sperm counts in adults.

But the German scientists believe their discovery could explain the rise in male infertility and drop in sperm counts over the past 25 years.


I'm not sure how they make the leap from hot baby testes to impaired adult ones: quotes from the scientists include phrases such as "It seems possible that ..." and "may have a negative long term effect ..."

Kate "so get your husband's nappy off now" S


Posts: 2451 | From: Hong Kong/Cairns | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Lackwit
The Red and the Green Stamps


Icon 16 posted            Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kate:
...hot baby testes...

*urk* ROFLMAO

Lackwit

------------------
MegaHAL Quote of the Moment: "The pelvis is a loving mother."


IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post new topic  Post a reply Close topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Urban Legends Reference Pages

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2