quote:The only whale-dolphin mix in captivity has given birth to a playful female calf, officials at Sea Life Park Hawaii said Thursday.
The calf was born on Dec. 23 to Kekaimalu, a mix of a false killer whale and an Atlantic bottlenose dolphin. Park officials said they waited to announce the birth until now because of recent changes in ownership and operations at the park.
The young as-yet unnamed wholphin is one-fourth false killer whale and three-fourths Atlantic bottlenose dolphin. Her slick skin is an even blend of a dolphin's light gray and the black coloring of a false killer whale.
And here's a fun little glitch in reporting:
"Park researchers suspect the wholphin's father is a 15-foot long Atlantic bottlenose dolphin named Mikioi... Atlantic bottlenose dolphins reach a maximum size of 12 feet and can weigh up to 700 pounds."
Sounds like ABDs actually max out at about 15 feet.
guruwan2b
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
I saw that somewhere this afternoon. Actually the father was a fake killer whale that was 15 foot long. I think the article that I read said the mom was 7 foot long.
Have to look for that other article. Kim
ETA: Nope. I was wrong. Kekaimalu, whose name means "from the peaceful ocean," was born 19 years ago after a surprise coupling between a 14-foot, 2,000-pound false killer whale and a 6-foot, 400-pound dolphinSo the new baby is 1/4 killer whale and 3/4 dolphin. Don't know where they got their wires crossed about the max size of dolphins.
-------------------- Too much of this navel gazing and we'll disappear up our own arses. Danvers Carew Posts: 7465 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Oct 2001
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-------------------- And if she says come inside I'll come inside for her. If she says give it all I'll give everything to her. I am justified. I am purified. I am sanctified. Inside you Posts: 695 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
The calf was born on December 23 to Kekaimalu, a mix of a false killer whale and an Atlantic bottlenose dolphin. Park officials said they waited to announce the birth until now because of recent changes in ownership and operations at the park.
-------------------- And if she says come inside I'll come inside for her. If she says give it all I'll give everything to her. I am justified. I am purified. I am sanctified. Inside you Posts: 695 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
if i saw that picture without the story, i would have thought it was two regular dolphins. is there any "whale" in the wholphin's looks?
-------------------- On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Posts: 119 | From: always a coast | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
You can't tell much from the still picture but if you watch the video it looks like the baby's head and jaw is shaped differently.
Posts: 300 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Mar 2004
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if i saw that picture without the story, i would have thought it was two regular dolphins. is there any "whale" in the wholphin's looks?
There shouldn't be any expected "whaleness" to this calf. Both parents (and their respective lineages) are from the dolphin family. The press doesn't know marine mammals from Gummi Bears, and the "experts" that the press quotes are unwilling or unable to get the press to fully-educate its readers.
"False Killer Whales" (Pseudorca crassidens) are not really whales, per se. They are classified in the same family as all "dolphins", which is Delphinidae. They are given the common name "whale" because they are big (like true whales). The "Maine Coon Cat" has the word "coon" in it's common name, because it looks something like a raccoon. That animal is not a hybrid between a cat and a raccoon.
This news story contains a few other fascinating elements, as well as some other intellectual insults besides the "Wholphin" nomenclature debacle (error). When I stop hyperventilating because of my frustration with how the media educates the public about the natural world... I'll say more.
The calf itself could not be sweeter than it is.
-------------------- Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupefied... by you! Posts: 3157 | From: Illinois | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
i gotcha barns, i guess i should have looked up a picture of the false killer whale before posting, rather than after! ( here is a link for those who also want to know)
i was wondering how a dolphin and whale would mate...this makes a lot more sense.
ETA: wrong link!
-------------------- On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Posts: 119 | From: always a coast | Registered: Oct 2004
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i gotcha barns, i guess i should have looked up a picture of the false killer whale before posting, rather than after! ( here is a link for those who also want to know)
FL3, you are an innocent victim of media trash. The important thing to know is that the press is trying to tell the world that something astonishing has happened that really wasn't so astonishing. That should not completely detract from the very interesting factualities of the complete story. Kekaimalu is the mother of this precious calf. She is a hybrid of a "false killer whale" (FKW) and a "bottlenose dolphin" (BD). That alone ought to be something like "Headline News", of sorts. But, she was born 19 years ago. Now that mom has mated with a bottlenose dolphin and produced a calf... it is as if the deserved "limelight" of the mom has been superceded by her own daughter.
You prematurely blamed yourself for not getting to certain truths, because you didn't look at a picture of a FKW before saying anything. Ditch that self-punishment. FKWs don't look a whole hell of a lot like BDs. Their outward physical appearances can be (obviously) somewhat deceiving when the question is asked about "if they could mate and make a baby?". This is partly the result of schoolteachers hammering certain information into your mind, which would cause you to recoil when you read about this stuff.
The article states that this situation is noteworthy because FKWs and BDs are different species. The article never states the more possibly "important" fact... that FKWs and BDs are different genera. I put the word important into quotations, because that reality ought to be something that knocks most undergraduate science teachers right out of their seats.
Mom is at least as significant as her daughter, if for no other reason that that mom is a FKW x BD hybrid who is quite obviously a fertile animal. Questions about hybridizations often go directly to questions about the fertility of their offspring. That question is often posed about cross-species hybrids, but in this case we have cross-genera hybrids!
In A Nutshell: This bouncing baby bundle of joy really isn't a "Wholphin". This little lovemuffin is a "Dolphdolph".
-------------------- Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupefied... by you! Posts: 3157 | From: Illinois | Registered: Dec 2002
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Thanks, Barns. You answered all the concerns I had when I posted this article.
Now, another question, regarding taxonomic classification. If it is true that dolphins can successfully mate with false killer whales, is it important to consider reclassifying one or other of the animals, to identify them more correctly as to their level of kinship?
quote:Park researchers suspect the wholphin's father is a 15-foot-long Atlantic bottlenose dolphin named Mikioi.
quote:Atlantic bottlenose dolphins reach a maximum size of 12 feet and can weigh up to 700 pounds.
Those two quotes were 1.5 inches apart within the text of the CBS News story. Yahoo News has made a correction to their story, but I don't think that CBS has.
I want a special gun. I want a gun that only kills media reporters and their editors. It is very important that the gun does not occasionally injure... it must kill every single time it is used.
-------------------- Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupefied... by you! Posts: 3157 | From: Illinois | Registered: Dec 2002
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Now, another question, regarding taxonomic classification. If it is true that dolphins can successfully mate with false killer whales, is it important to consider reclassifying one or other of the animals, to identify them more correctly as to their level of kinship?
No reclassification is necessary. Taxonomists and cladists understand these animals as much as they already can. These two different species (which are also designated as different genera) are already "classified" according to their apparent evolutionary relationship. That is why they are both called dolphins.
I reread the news article. The reporter and her editor(s) were very close to being able to understand the natural world and explain it to their readers. They chose otherwise...
quote:Although false killer whales and Atlantic bottlenose dolphins are different species, they are classified within the same family by scientists.
"They are not that far apart in terms of taxonomy," said Louis Herman, a leading expert in the study of marine mammals.
A conversation that should have happened...
Lee: "This is amazing. So, a whale produced an offspring after mating with a dolphin?"
Herman: "No. Both species are dolphins. The common name of one of the species happens to have the word 'whale' within it. That's because this dolphin species is largish... sorta like the true whales, which are large marine mammals. Whoever was responsible for affixing the common name to the animal did not know, or did not care, that it is a dolphin rather than a whale. On the other hand, I suppose that the first word 'False' might mean that everything that follows after it might be untrue, per se. Steve Jobs could have named his computer the "False Gerenuk", instead of "Apple Computer". That name would be culturally-acceptable, because computers are not really gerenuks, and the name itself would reflect that. Are you following me?"
Lee: "Yes and no. I love the word 'Wholphin', and it is very catchy."
Herman: "Humpf... you should then read about and try to understand marine mammals."
Lee: "Humpf... you should read about and try to understand what the American public likes to read and hear."
Herman: "Carry on."
Lee: "Carry on."
-------------------- Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupefied... by you! Posts: 3157 | From: Illinois | Registered: Dec 2002
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IIRC orcas, aka killer whales, like false killer whales, are themselves members of the dolphin family. The largest members I think. I have been known to be wrong (shocking!)
-------------------- "Most Jewish holidays can be summed up very simply: They tried to kill us. We won. Let's eat." - my in-laws' Rabbi. Posts: 430 | From: North of Boston, MA | Registered: May 2002
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posted
A comment that is frequently made during SAG (Social aspects of genetics) sessions in my university, is that given how much the media NFBSKs up articles in science issues - in which we are geared up to sport the errors - how can we trust them anywhere else.
Of course, this assumes that the media pay as much attention to all aspects of their reporting. I don't know what would annoy me more, a consistently factually dubious media, or one that seems to just to let proper reporting slide when it comes to science issues.
ETA: And, if another newspaper reports findings BEFORE they even go to peer review . The worse thing is that they confine this declaration to one line, and fail to point out that this could mean that the findings are flawed.
quote:Originally posted by Barns & No Bull: No reclassification is necessary. Taxonomists and cladists understand these animals as much as they already can. These two different species (which are also designated as different genera) are already "classified" according to their apparent evolutionary relationship. That is why they are both called dolphins.
Um, yes. But you said that what was amazing about the story was that two animals of different genera were able to mate and produce fertile offspring. I took away from that commment the notion that a genus is by definition reproductively separated from others of its family.
The assignment of taxonomical lineage is supposed to tell us something about the animals. These two animals are able to interbreed. Shouldn't their genus be the same?
posted
I'm not trying to say that if it's furry and has four legs it's a dog, but shouldn't a false killer whale look a little bit like a real killer whale? It isn't even the same colours from what I can see. It kind of sort of has the same body shape, if it were a lot bigger and a lot wider and thinner and ... no, never mind, I don't see it at all.
[edit] This explains what a false killer whale is, with small words so I can understand better and it has a scary photo.
False Killer Whale - As this dolphin surfaces to breathe, three-quarters of its head appears above water. It is a very "cosmopolitan" species found in the temperate and tropical climates. In length, adults are about five meters [16 feet], and, unlike their distinctively marked black and white cousins, the orcas, they are solid black. This is why sailors called them false killer whales. Their prime cause of mortality is spectacular mass groundings where several hundred animals beach themselves - the record was 800 strandings on the Argentine coast in 1964. Scientists have no clear answer for this behavior.
^ now, the baby didn't have any physical characteristics from its father that I can see...
-------------------- A dyslexic man walks into a bra. Posts: 541 | From: New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Mar 2005
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IIRC orcas, aka killer whales, like false killer whales, are themselves members of the dolphin family. The largest members I think. I have been known to be wrong (shocking!)
True, orcas are the largest dolphins. In general, whales are larger than dolphins. But, orcas are dolphins that are larger than some whales.
The common name confusions are apparent. But it gets worse. The dolphins are divided into certain categories. One category has the common name of "Blackfish". Did Barns just tell us that mammals are actually being called "fish"? Yes. Common names are frequently culturally-derived, and may have nothing to do with science or any apparent relevance. I suspect that "Blackfish" is a broad category used by old whalers. The 6 members of the "Blackfish" group are generally colored black. The group includes the FKW and the orca (which does display some distinct white-coloration). Another dolphin category is the "Oceanic Dolphins". That common name might suggest that they are oceanic dolphins while the other groups are not. Wrong. Are you starting to just love the common names of animals? Oceanic Dolphins includes 26 species. It includes the Bottlenose Dolphin. Then there are the "River Dolphins", comprising 5 species. These live in freshwater systems.
-------------------- Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupefied... by you! Posts: 3157 | From: Illinois | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
So here we have two inter-species...check that...two inter-genius, animals mating. How common is that type of thing? For instance, beastiality among humans is relatively rare and labeled as sexual deviation. Could this be considered along the same lines in the animal kingdom?
Is this behavior simply an abhoration or is it that these two were locked together in captivity and had a jailhouse affair?
-------------------- As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. Posts: 1679 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Spam & Cookies-mmmm: It's not the animals' fault. They don't know that they can't produce fertile offspring - they didn't read the biology book.
Right, but not knowing things doesn't preclude an animal from not doing those things. Perhaps my questions weren't as clear as I had hoped. Animals have a sexual drive, and that seems to be directed to, as a rule, their own species, so is the deviation here a man-made thing (they were couped up together with no other outlet?)
-------------------- As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. Posts: 1679 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2004
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So why don't cats mate with dogs? My husband always tries to convince me that cats and dogs used to be the same animal (I call them cogs or dats) but evolved into two different species.
Why don't they try to get "close" again, then? wink wink.
-------------------- A dyslexic man walks into a bra. Posts: 541 | From: New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Mar 2005
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We had a rabbit once who energetically attempted to mate with our cats, much to the cats' indignation. And I can't tell you how many dogs have wanted to get down and dirty with my shin.
-------------------- "No hard feelin's and HOPpy New Year!"--Walt Kelly Hear what you're missing: ARTC podcasts! http://artcpodcast.org/ Posts: 7581 | From: Gainesville, Georgia | Registered: Jun 2000
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quote:Originally posted by inkiemouse: So why don't cats mate with dogs? My husband always tries to convince me that cats and dogs used to be the same animal (I call them cogs or dats) but evolved into two different species.
Why don't they try to get "close" again, then? wink wink.
At the Museum of Natural History in Chicago, they had a kids' exhibit, and one of the items was a representation of how far apart dogs and cats are.
I forget the exact details, but in consisted of a regular width book shelf filled end to end with hardcover 'novels', if you can picture this. Most all the pages were blank except the first page in the left-most book said DOG (or cat?) and the last page in the right-most said CAT (or Dog?). That was to represent the (and here's more fuzziness in my memory)the seperation in either evolutionary or genetic terms.
Sorry to be so vague, but it goes to show, either way, the differentiation of the two species.
So, I'll put my question out there again...does inter-species shagging go on in the 'wild' at a frequent rate, or is it a manifestation of captivity? My gut tells me taht this is a captivity-induced phenom. It seems like a waste of time and genetic material that wild creatures would shun.
-------------------- As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. Posts: 1679 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2004
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Dogs and cats are not just different genera and species but different families (Canidae vs. Felidae). Just because they have four legs and fur doesn't mean they are that similar. They belong to the same Order (Carnivora) as bears, raccoons, hyenas, weasels, skunks, etc. However, all of these animals are in seperate families. So if you ask why a dog and cat can't mate with each other, you may as well ask why a bear can't mate with a skunk, or why a tiger can't mate with a raccoon. These animals diverge from each other at the same evolutionary level (the Family level) as cats and dogs do.
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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Skunk: I--I don't understand. Is--is it that I'm not attractive enough?
Bear: No, no, you're--you're perfect. It's just that--well, it's--oh, Aroma, don't ask me to explain!
-------------------- "No hard feelin's and HOPpy New Year!"--Walt Kelly Hear what you're missing: ARTC podcasts! http://artcpodcast.org/ Posts: 7581 | From: Gainesville, Georgia | Registered: Jun 2000
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