quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: Hold on, does anybody know the whole story here?
That call for the "whole story" is getting old. We never have the "whole story". If we waited for the "whole story" we'd be bored stiff.
Glad you're not my lawyer... Anyway, "whole story" aside (or should that be "hole story"... sorry *slaps own face*), even a partial story would suffice. Something besides a handful of pictures with no context. For all I know, she was funning with a group of friends (including the photographer), and somehow the pics got out.
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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What sort of context, exactly, are you looking for?
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.: Acceptable isn't the quibble word. The quibble word is "nudity" which needs a modifier (or several). In the case of page three, "Female nudity that conforms to strict and narrow standards of beauty portrayed as an object" is acceptable.
But that still doesn't really address my point, which is that what level and type of nudity being acceptable isn't a universal standard, common to all people and all cultures. I say that it's a societal thing, and that different cultures and different societies, have different levels and different types that are considered acceptable.
quote:Now, I am not an expert in British culture, so I don't know if all those modifiers apply. In some british films I've seen I've seen cock, but I'm not sure if that's an indy-film-thing or if it's a general "cock is fine" thing. However, the cock I saw was not objectified cock. Nor did the cock-bearer conform to a strict and narrow beauty standard.[/qb]
The biggest complaint I hear about British films from Americans is that it features too much full-frontal male nudity. Ewan McGregor had something of a reputation in his early films for seemingly not accepting a role unless he got his cock out in it.
I wouldn't say that all British films feature a penis, but I wouldn't call it exactly noteworthy, either. In fact, the thing that surprised me the most about The Full Monty is that you didn't see anyone's cock.
It would usually only get a 15 certificate, or possibly a 12, too.
-------------------- seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears. Posts: 16061 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2000
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Sara at home
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quote:Originally posted by trollface:
quote:Originally posted by Sara at home: That's a giant step for equality.
I didn't say anything about equality. I said that it showed a different attitude towards nudity than in a culture where it isn't common.
Oh yeah, that was the other thread where nudity was going to bring equality. No carryover, eh?
-------------------- Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread. Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.: Acceptable isn't the quibble word. The quibble word is "nudity" which needs a modifier (or several). In the case of page three, "Female nudity that conforms to strict and narrow standards of beauty portrayed as an object" is acceptable.
But that still doesn't really address my point, which is that what level and type of nudity being acceptable isn't a universal standard, common to all people and all cultures. I say that it's a societal thing, and that different cultures and different societies, have different levels and different types that are considered acceptable.
I agree with that. I was just building off of Sara's point. What can I say? I'm cantankerous.
quote:Originally posted by trollface: The biggest complaint I hear about British films from Americans is that it features too much full-frontal male nudity. Ewan McGregor had something of a reputation in his early films for seemingly not accepting a role unless he got his cock out in it.
Funny, but this season issue of Bitch Magazine has a backpage "salute to male nudity," one catagory of which salutes McGregor for being quite the pioneer.
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sara at home: Oh yeah, that was the other thread where nudity was going to bring equality. No carryover, eh?
Sounds interesting, and it's something that I might have something to say on (although I'm not actually sure what my opinion is - it makes sense to me on a logical level, but when looking at countries where nudity is more common than others, they also seem to have very healthy pornographic industries and reputations for such, so...).
Anyway, can you link to it?
-------------------- seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears. Posts: 16061 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2000
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-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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Oh, yes, I've seen it floating around but not looked on it yet. Maybe when I've got a bit more time, as that's a fair bit of catching up to be done.
-------------------- seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears. Posts: 16061 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:If nudity was so acceptable, those pictures wouldn't be there because they wouldn't increase sales.
I think you're using a funny definition of "acceptable" here. If nudity weren't acceptable, then papers wouldn't be allowed to print pictures featuring nudity.
Acceptable isn't the quibble word. The quibble word is "nudity" which needs a modifier (or several). In the case of page three, "Female nudity that conforms to strict and narrow standards of beauty portrayed as an object" is acceptable.
Now, I am not an expert in British culture, so I don't know if all those modifiers apply. In some british films I've seen I've seen cock, but I'm not sure if that's an indy-film-thing or if it's a general "cock is fine" thing. However, the cock I saw was not objectified cock. Nor did the cock-bearer conform to a strict and narrow beauty standard.
Britany's exposure in these photos violates that page three acceptable nudity because it is
A) not selling her for the purpose of objectificaton.
and
B) Because it violates the beauty canon, due to the fact that it exhibits "non-sexualized" scars.
A couple of points I'd like to add to the discussion: 1) I've seen cocks in as many American produced films as British films. Just sayin...
2) In regards to the Page 3 = acceptance of nudity among the British...clearly Page 3 exists for the purposes of titillation. It is not an intellectual discourse on the anatomy, nor on fashion, but seeks to draw patrons because it is indeed NOT the norm to view those breasts. So, it is not that there is a difference in the acceptance of nudity between American and British cultures. There may, however, be a difference in the acceptance of titallating materials and how prolific they are.
-------------------- "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005
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What's the difference between Page 3 and nudity? No, it's not a social discourse on nudity, but that doesn't make it any less nudity. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
And I'm not sure that your argument about it not being the norm stand up. The Sun has circulation figures of 3 1/2 million, and the Daily Star has figures of roughly 6 1/2 million. It's certainly not abnormal.
-------------------- seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears. Posts: 16061 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by trollface: What's the difference between Page 3 and nudity? No, it's not a social discourse on nudity, but that doesn't make it any less nudity. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
I'd say it's an asthetic, philosophical difference.
Page three = A standardized, objectified displaying of the human form in order to sell a product.
If page three displayed all sorts of breasts (i.e. tiny breasts, streach-marked breasts, male breasts, scarred breasts, non-symmetrical breasts) that would be an example of nudity.
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by trollface: What's the difference between Page 3 and nudity? No, it's not a social discourse on nudity, but that doesn't make it any less nudity. The two aren't mutually exclusive
Page 3 appeals to prurient interests specifically. It is designed to titillate or appeal to those who take pleasure in viewing those particular breasts. Yes, it is nudity, but it is a specific class of nudity. Not all nudity titillates.
To summarize: Page 3 equals nudity Nudity does not equal Page 3
-------------------- "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.: If page three displayed all sorts of breasts (i.e. tiny breasts, streach-marked breasts, male breasts, scarred breasts, non-symmetrical breasts) that would be an example of nudity.
But if the girls on Page 3 aren't an example of nudity, then what is their state of dress?
quote:Methuselah said: Page 3 equals nudity Nudity does not equal Page 3
I've not said any differently.
-------------------- seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears. Posts: 16061 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2000
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Sara at home
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posted
quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury:
quote:Originally posted by Sara at home:
quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: Hold on, does anybody know the whole story here?
That call for the "whole story" is getting old. We never have the "whole story". If we waited for the "whole story" we'd be bored stiff.
Glad you're not my lawyer...
Like this is a court of law...
quote:Anyway, "whole story" aside (or should that be "hole story"... sorry *slaps own face*), even a partial story would suffice. Something besides a handful of pictures with no context. For all I know, she was funning with a group of friends (including the photographer), and somehow the pics got out.
Or...or....or...aliens landed and took over her mind and made her do socially unacceptable things so they could watch how hu mans responded to unexpected happenings.
-------------------- Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread. Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by AnglRdr: What sort of context, exactly, are you looking for?
Anything. Even a caption would be nice. Something like:
"Britney Spears, seen here getting out of limo in front of the Apollo, inadvertently exposes herself to a large crowd of fans."
...or...
"Britney Spears, celebrating her seperation from K-Fed, goes on a huge drinking binge resulting in her arrest for public indecency."
...or something similar. But without that context, it could just as easily be:
"Britney Spears, after accidentally sitting on a plate of barbecue sauce, faces a laundry emergency as tactless opportunists take photographs."
"Britney Spears, seen here getting ready for her upcoming Peta photoshoot, has declared, 'I'd rather go commando than wear fur.'"
"Britney Spears, shortly after receiving an emergency appendectomy from gal-pal Hilton, arrives at the hospital."
"Britney Spears, preparing for her upcoming role in 'Lady Godiva: The Movie', hopes to beat out Spider-Man 3 as this summer's biggest blockbuster."
"Britney Spears, arriving home after a Tom Jones concert, regrets throwing her underwear onto the stage."
"Britney Spears, victim of a cruel practical joke, forces a smile as she realizes that Madison Square Garden is not a nudist colony."
"Britney Spears, seen here on the way to a nude anti-war protest, vows to 'make love, not war.'"
"Britney Spears, having lost her underwear to an unexpected bout of Montezuma's Revenge, makes an emergency pit stop."
"Britney Spears, shortly after a romantic tryst with Paris Hilton in the back of a limo, was shocked to find her driveway invaded by paparazzi."
"Britney Spears, avid helper of the homeless and downtrodden, actively participates in a clothing drive."
"Britney Spears, suffering from a massive concussion, wanders around pantsless as her friends help her back into her limo."
"Britney Spears, hoping to revive vaudeville as well as her own career, practices her new ventriloquist act."
"Christina Aguillera, seen here on the way to a costume ball, shows off her highly-realistic 'half-naked Britney Spears' costume."
I'm not saying I believe any of this stuff; I'm just saying that I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, or at least get the facts before I start throwing insults around. I freely admit to being hopelessly naive - if there's any possibility it was an honest mistake, I want to believe it.
I suppose I could do a little Googling and find out if there's an article to accompany the pics. But I doubt that would help; anyone could have received the pics first with no explanation, and extrapolated an article from them.
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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Sara at home
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posted
quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: I'm not saying I believe any of this stuff; I'm just saying that I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, or at least get the facts before I start throwing insults around. I freely admit to being hopelessly naive - if there's any possibility it was an honest mistake, I want to believe it.
I suppose I could do a little Googling and find out if there's an article to accompany the pics. But I doubt that would help; anyone could have received the pics first with no explanation, and extrapolated an article from them.
Yeah, you're hopelessly naive.
If you go googling, use Google News. This is exactly what it appears to be.
-------------------- Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread. Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:For those of you who think this was an innocent accident, I have an ocean front property in Tennessee you might be interested in.
Seriously, though, and I'm not trying to be stubborn here, but of the articles I browsed on Google News, they still could have been written based on the photos alone. I'd like to see Britney's explanation for the photos, even if only for the humor value.
No, I don't believe it was an accident. I'd like to believe it was an accident. I do believe Britney is trashy, but I thought that long before this. And accident or not, this doesn't change my opinion of here in either direction.
I'm generally pro-nudity, and a stunt like this I would call "playful". Stupid, yes, but it doesn't make her any trashier in my eyes.
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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Ya know, I've been in many, many unusual situations in my day involving many different levels of dress & undress. Everything from theatre performances to H.S. band uniform changes in everywhere from a school bus to a mens restroom while other females were barring the door. However, never, in my life, have I had an incident that required me to *remove* my underwear or go underwear-less. I can see situations where a thong or other forms of undies might be better suited to an outfit but at no point in my life have I said 'You know, this skirt would look so much better if I went commando.' I fully realize that I am an old fuddy-duddy & that the 'young whippersnappers' wear stuff I don't like but I never, ever considered panties optional under a 3-inch miniskirt.
-------------------- I cannot live without books-Thomas Jefferson *~* A child educated only at school is an uneducated child - George Santayana I'm going to pummel you with such zeal, Buddha will explode! *~* Never miss a good chance to shut up - Will Rogers Posts: 6585 | From: Dallas/Fort Worth, TX | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: Seriously, though, and I'm not trying to be stubborn here, but of the articles I browsed on Google News, they still could have been written based on the photos alone. I'd like to see Britney's explanation for the photos, even if only for the humor value.
No, I don't believe it was an accident. I'd like to believe it was an accident. I do believe Britney is trashy, but I thought that long before this. And accident or not, this doesn't change my opinion of here in either direction.
I'm generally pro-nudity, and a stunt like this I would call "playful". Stupid, yes, but it doesn't make her any trashier in my eyes.
Once might be an accident and can be allowed benefit of doubt. Twice, you should be much less eager to provide benefit of doubt. Three times is undeniably no accident:
quote:In the past week, Spears' formerly private parts have been captured on film on three separate occasions, the latest incident occurring Tuesday night at a Malibu gas station apparently popular with paparazzi and underpants-free pop stars.
-------------------- "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005
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Wait, a petrol station is such a star hang out that the paparazzi gather there?
-------------------- seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears. Posts: 16061 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2000
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Sara at home
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If you've been flashing your parts all week and running with some other famous crotch, yeah, the paparazzi are going to follow you everywhere, even to a gas station.
-------------------- Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread. Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Sara at home: If you've been flashing your parts all week and running with some other famous crotch, yeah, the paparazzi are going to follow you everywhere, even to a gas station.
I know I would.
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Morgaine La Raq Star: I can see situations where a thong or other forms of undies might be better suited to an outfit but at no point in my life have I said 'You know, this skirt would look so much better if I went commando.' I fully realize that I am an old fuddy-duddy & that the 'young whippersnappers' wear stuff I don't like but I never, ever considered panties optional under a 3-inch miniskirt.
But, but, if she wore panties under her 3" miniskirt, people might see her panties. Think how embarrasing that would be!
-------------------- How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Morgaine La Raq Star: I can see situations where a thong or other forms of undies might be better suited to an outfit but at no point in my life have I said 'You know, this skirt would look so much better if I went commando.' I fully realize that I am an old fuddy-duddy & that the 'young whippersnappers' wear stuff I don't like but I never, ever considered panties optional under a 3-inch miniskirt.
But, but, if she wore panties under her 3" miniskirt, people might see her panties. Think how embarrasing that would be!
If I ever, ever, decide that its better to possibly flash my naked girly bits than let people see my undies, you have my full permission to thwack me with every trout you can get your hands on as I have definately gone over the edge!
-------------------- I cannot live without books-Thomas Jefferson *~* A child educated only at school is an uneducated child - George Santayana I'm going to pummel you with such zeal, Buddha will explode! *~* Never miss a good chance to shut up - Will Rogers Posts: 6585 | From: Dallas/Fort Worth, TX | Registered: Feb 2002
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I have known, personally, at least two lady friends who would sometimes wear no underwear at all under a skirt. Of course, these would be skirts that were "at or below the knee", and worn with stockings and garters. It wasn't something they did casually or regularly - it was always when going out on a date. Not just any date, but a "serious" date where the prospect of some "heavy petting", when they returned home, was pretty much guaranteed. They said that it made them feel sexy, because only they and their lucky guy friend knew that they weren't wearing any underwear.
Not wearing it because *you* know, and not wearing it because you want *the world* to know, are two very, very different things.
-------------------- "The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by frogpond: I'm very glad I'm not likely to be sitting where any of these starlets have been sitting.
Amen, frogpond! Prude or not, modest or not, I don't want to sit anywhere near her!
And I concur with a few others on here: I think there is a vast gap between not wanting to see everyone's equipment, and being a prude. Vaginas are no more shameful than kidneys, but I don't want to see her kidneys either!
-------------------- "I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes. Hey, better try the emergency brake." -Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey Posts: 245 | From: Gladstone, MO | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by trollface: Well, here's a question, then. Exactly how unhygienic is a clean, healthy vagina (and we have no business supposing the Britany's is anything but)?
Considering the much-publicized state of her feet, I have a few reasons to suspect the cleanliness of all parts of Britney...
-------------------- "I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes. Hey, better try the emergency brake." -Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey Posts: 245 | From: Gladstone, MO | Registered: Apr 2006
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I think the article is looking at the hygiene issue the wrong way. Now, I have occasionally gone out sans-panties, but always under a long skirt or dress. I am skeeved out just by the thought of wearing a miniskirt (such as Britney's in the photo) and placing my bits directly on public surfaces. Imagine your labia coming into contact with, say, a movie theatre seat, a chair in a restaurant, the seat of a cab, etc., etc. There are some parts of my body to which I would rather not have stray crumbs, bits of lint, or other people's hairs adhering (except in certain, special, situations, of course), and the vajayjay is number one.
If I am going to be making direct hoo-hoo contact with a surface, I'd like to know that surface pretty well. Maybe this is just me, and I seriously doubt one could really pick up any diseases or anything from such behavior, but I would never go around exposing the ladybits to all manner of debris.
-------------------- saxea ut effigies bacchantis prospicit eheu | prospicit et magnis curarum fluctuat undis -Catullus Posts: 435 | From: Iowa | Registered: Mar 2006
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Regarding the hygiene issue - it's not just the vagina that's coming into contact with the seat, it's the ass. While the vagina may be clean, the digestive system does harbor bacteria that can be hazardous to others - and that's where the hygiene issue lies, IMO.
-------------------- If you say you love ice cream, you better be dreaming of an orgy with Ben, Jerry, and one fine-ass chunky monkey.
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quote:Originally posted by bthyb: Regarding the hygiene issue - it's not just the vagina that's coming into contact with the seat, it's the ass. While the vagina may be clean, the digestive system does harbor bacteria that can be hazardous to others - and that's where the hygiene issue lies, IMO.
But from a hygene standpoint, is there going to be a particular difference between the bacteria put onto a seat from someone wearing no underwear and someone wearing a thong? Does a half centimetre of fabric in the asscrack absorb a significant amount of bacteria?
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Isn't it considered proper etiquette at nudist colonies/resorts to carry and use a towel when sitting down? So that any bodily discharge or whatever (from whichever orifice) wouldn't come into contact with a seat that would then be contacted by another person? [I haven't visited a nudist location myself, and my friends who have aren't where I can ask them today, so I may be mis-remembering what they've told me. If so, I appologize.]
Anyway, so if it's a good idea, and a polite idea, at a nudist colony, then I would think it would be an even better idea when out in pubic! Hygenic or not, I would rather not sit in some else's discharge(s). Or at least be blisfully ignorant of where the damp patch on the seat came from... then I could pretend it's from a spilled coffee or a drooling toddler, not Brittney's hoo-ha.
quote:Originally posted by Photo Spread: Anyway, so if it's a good idea, and a polite idea, at a nudist colony, then I would think it would be an even better idea when out in pubic!
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Photo Spread: Anyway, so if it's a good idea, and a polite idea, at a nudist colony, then I would think it would be an even better idea when out in pubic!
posted
-snorts at the typo and giggles like a 10yo-
Anyway, lol. I haven't been to any nudist facilities, but I do know at the BDSM clubs I have been to, towels are usually provided for this very purpose. Anyone going about unclad is required to cover the seating surface as part of the rules of the establishment.
-------------------- "There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein Posts: 1058 | From: Yakima, WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bthyb: Regarding the hygiene issue - it's not just the vagina that's coming into contact with the seat, it's the ass. While the vagina may be clean, the digestive system does harbor bacteria that can be hazardous to others - and that's where the hygiene issue lies, IMO.
And all I was worrying about were green onions.
-------------------- "You hold the Prince so I can duct tape his bottom to keep the bugs out." - My Mom Posts: 193 | From: The Fabulous Finger Lakes, New York | Registered: Aug 2005
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