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Pastors who believe Halloween is a pagan tradition are urging children to trade pumpkin-carving and scary costumes for hayrides, contests for best saint costumes and prayers.
Canuckistan
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quote:contests for best saint costumes
He knew he was taking a chance when all the other kids were coming dressed as St. Abraham of Rostov, but his St. Albert of Montecorvino costume proved to be distinct enough to win first prize!
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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That jumped out at me too Canuck. Talk about putting the fun back in Halloween!
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If they are throwing a party on or near Halloween that involves candy and dressing up, they are celebrating Halloween, no matter what they call it. If churches really want their congregants to reject Halloween, they should encourage them to not celebrate at all.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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This isn't really new. As far back as 1956, Mary Reed Newland's book The Year and Our Children suggests that every trick-or-treater who comes to the door be required to say an Our Father for the souls in purgatory. (And no, she's not talking only about Catholic children; she draws a positively glurgeriffic word-picture of trick-or-treaters kneeling adorably in a row, reciting the Our Father, and all the Catholic kids leaving off at "deliver us from evil" while the Protestants continue with "for thine is the kingdom".)
-------------------- “Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.” -- Edward R. Murrow
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Los Dios de las muertes has been around for a long time, and incorporates both halloweenish and religious elements.
Re: the article. It is truely amazing to see a massive pCm like Dobson say something sane for a change.
-------------------- The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the zero adjust on his bathroom scale. Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ) Posts: 244 | From: Ventura, CA | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Cactus Wren: This isn't really new. As far back as 1956, Mary Reed Newland's book The Year and Our Children suggests that every trick-or-treater who comes to the door be required to say an Our Father for the souls in purgatory. (And no, she's not talking only about Catholic children; she draws a positively glurgeriffic word-picture of trick-or-treaters kneeling adorably in a row, reciting the Our Father, and all the Catholic kids leaving off at "deliver us from evil" while the Protestants continue with "for thine is the kingdom".)
I wonder how severely egged was her house.
-------------------- "You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break stuff." Coop from MegasXLR
"I distrust who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -- Susan B. Anthony Posts: 2246 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Jul 2003
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I remember when the pastor of the church I attended as a teenager wanted to make it a rule that any costumes worn to our "Costume Party" held the weekend of Hallowe'en had to be of a biblical theme. He was not amused when I asked if I could come as Adam before the Fall.
-------------------- You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons. -Blazing Saddles Posts: 1074 | From: High Level, Alberta, Canada | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote: Carlos Gonzalez, a pastor at Harlandale United Methodist Church in San Antonio, told his congregation on Sunday that they "need to be apart from the world in the sense of not copying pagan traditions."
Christmas must be a little difficult for Rev. Gonzalez. And Easter for that matter.
Posts: 293 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Dec 2003
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Mr. Furious
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quote:Originally posted by simone: Christmas must be a little difficult for Rev. Gonzalez. And Easter for that matter.
quote:Originally posted by NorthernLite: I remember when the pastor of the church I attended as a teenager wanted to make it a rule that any costumes worn to our "Costume Party" held the weekend of Hallowe'en had to be of a biblical theme. He was not amused when I asked if I could come as Adam before the Fall.
Not quite a YOMANK, but a snicker nonetheless.
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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Hallowe'en is the eve of All Saints' Day; what could be more Christian than that?
The 'ghoulies and ghastlies' of Hallowe'en are to remind us of the fear that our pre-Christian ancestors had of darkness and death, the fear that Christ came to deliver us from.
Trying to celebrate All Saints' without Hallowe'en is like trying to have Easter without Good Friday.
-------------------- "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch Posts: 3307 | From: Charleston, WV | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote: Carlos Gonzalez, a pastor at Harlandale United Methodist Church in San Antonio, told his congregation on Sunday that they "need to be apart from the world in the sense of not copying pagan traditions."
Christmas must be a little difficult for Rev. Gonzalez. And Easter for that matter.
Not really. The dates for the holidays themselves were already well established by the time Christianity spread north. At that point what happened is that the symbols were borrowed, not the holidays themselves.
Noemi
-------------------- Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult. My blog, no guarantees about witty or intelligent content. My current projects. Coveted Beads <---- our eBay store, new items being added somewhat regularly Posts: 8418 | From: Wyoming | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Starla: If they are throwing a party on or near Halloween that involves candy and dressing up, they are celebrating Halloween, no matter what they call it. If churches really want their congregants to reject Halloween, they should encourage them to not celebrate at all.
Well, actually, they are. Not only should good Christians not be celebrating Halloween, they apparently shouldn't be celebrating anything at all.
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Plus, I'm sure if we were to look hard enough, we could find some sinister connection between Halloween, communism, and Teh Gay.
-------------------- High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler Posts: 3402 | From: New Bern, NC | Registered: May 2004
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Canuckistan
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quote:Originally posted by DesertRat: Plus, I'm sure if we were to look hard enough, we could find some sinister connection between Halloween, communism, and Teh Gay.
What if I go dressed as Karl Marx next year? I think that should cover all three, no?
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by DesertRat: Plus, I'm sure if we were to look hard enough, we could find some sinister connection between Halloween, communism, and Teh Gay.
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I remember a church Halloween party that required costumes to be "nothing evil or sinister." The pastor and congregation were perfectly fine with actually celebrating Halloween, though.
The saint costume contest doesn't surprise me at all. When I went to Catholic school, the Halloween carnival always incorporated elements of All Saints' Day (which, IIRC we had off school). There were contests for drawings of saints, costumes, and animated religious movies in addition to the haunted house, arts and crafts, and carnival games.
Posts: 885 | From: Florida | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by NorthernLite: I remember when the pastor of the church I attended as a teenager wanted to make it a rule that any costumes worn to our "Costume Party" held the weekend of Hallowe'en had to be of a biblical theme. He was not amused when I asked if I could come as Adam before the Fall.
You could have also come as Baal or Satan.
-------------------- Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History. Posts: 506 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2005
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Canuckistan
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I think Northern Lite should have come as Jezebel. Somehow, it just seems fitting for him.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Starla: If they are throwing a party on or near Halloween that involves candy and dressing up, they are celebrating Halloween, no matter what they call it. If churches really want their congregants to reject Halloween, they should encourage them to not celebrate at all.
Well, actually, they are. Not only should good Christians not be celebrating Halloween, they apparently shouldn't be celebrating anything at all.
I don't have a problem with churches suggesting that their congregants not celebrate Halloween in any way. I don't agree with the viewpoint that Halloween is evil, but I understand and respect the reasoning of those who feel otherwise.
However, I think it's silly for churches to act like they are rejecting Halloween when all they are doing is throwing a Halloween party with a different name or a different date. I don't have a problem with churches who offer a safer party alternative, but those churches who try to pretend their parties are somehow holier or are not associated with Halloween are fooling themselves.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: I think Northern Lite should have come as Jezebel. Somehow, it just seems fitting for him.
I resent that. I don't deny it but I do resent it.
-------------------- You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons. -Blazing Saddles Posts: 1074 | From: High Level, Alberta, Canada | Registered: Mar 2006
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When I was younger the church we attended used to have a Hallelujah party on said night. It involved apple bobbing, party games and such other delights. Seeing as very few people actually do Hallowe'en over here it was actually something to do when I wouldn't have been doing anything else.
As for the dress up as a Saint, that's a can of worms if I ever heard one. My brother did that for his 30th birthday. Half the people came as half dead bloody matyrs with some pun on the name attached or just a piss take. Like someone with a big bong 'cause they were stoned.
-------------------- Dactingyl is meant to sound a bit like Christingle.
It's not very good but I couldn't think of anything else.
Sorry. Posts: 257 | From: Hants, UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by snopes: contests for best saint costumes
And all was well and good until someone showed up like St. Bridget -- complete with her breasts on a platter.....
I got it....
-------------------- "We've got a fifth member of the band round here, and he's DEFINITELY out of tune!" -- Keith Moon
"If I had a thousand quid for every time I've introduced this song --- oh, I do!" -- John Entwistle Posts: 584 | From: Ohio | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Cactus Wren: This isn't really new. As far back as 1956, Mary Reed Newland's book The Year and Our Children suggests that every trick-or-treater who comes to the door be required to say an Our Father for the souls in purgatory. (And no, she's not talking only about Catholic children; she draws a positively glurgeriffic word-picture of trick-or-treaters kneeling adorably in a row, reciting the Our Father, and all the Catholic kids leaving off at "deliver us from evil" while the Protestants continue with "for thine is the kingdom".)
I overheard someone at work telling the person in the next cube that she shouldn't be allowing her kids to celebrate a "satanic" holiday and saying he was going to require any kids who showed up at his door to pray.
Posts: 716 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Jan 2006
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You got it, Flowy Chloe -- I got the wrong saint!
Well, the same sentiment, though -- here she comes, all nice and proper -- with her C cups on a silver platter!!
Gee, where are Lucy's eyes going to, hmmm?
-------------------- "We've got a fifth member of the band round here, and he's DEFINITELY out of tune!" -- Keith Moon
"If I had a thousand quid for every time I've introduced this song --- oh, I do!" -- John Entwistle Posts: 584 | From: Ohio | Registered: Sep 2005
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*shudder* That was in the Bible? I have to read up. Owch. How violent.
-------------------- Stand up, slip on the bathtub floor, fling a hand up to balance yourself, and happen to have your mouth open on the downswing. Voila, a new hole in your face.
-Tabby, on how she cut her lip while shaving her legs. Posts: 5097 | From: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Sep 2002
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Not in the Bible, but in later texts like _The Golden Legend_. My favorite legend is the lascivious Roman emperor Dulcitius, who thinks he is having his way with Christian virgins, but is really doing so with a collection of pots and pans.
-------------------- ~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~ Posts: 10111 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2004
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Then there's St. Bartholomew, who was skinned alive. He's the patron saint of surgeons, which is why St. B.'s is a common name for hospitals.
I think it was the "Golden Legend" or some other early Christian Latin text which said that St. Ceclia heard the sound of the organ and raised her voice in songs of praise to God. Midaeval artists thought that this meant that she was a singer who accompanied herself on the organ, but what it really meant was that when she heard the organ in the arena and knew that she would soon die, she rejoiced because she was going home to God. (St. C. is regarded as the patron saint of church music.)
St. Agatha, similarly, is patron saint of women fighting breast cancer and, because of how the severed breasts looked in paintings, of bellringers.
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Check this one out.... Third image on the page. Captioned, "No, those aren't steamed buns..."
That was the image that got me interested in her. though why in the WORLD I thought she was BRIDGET.... *shakes head*
-------------------- "We've got a fifth member of the band round here, and he's DEFINITELY out of tune!" -- Keith Moon
"If I had a thousand quid for every time I've introduced this song --- oh, I do!" -- John Entwistle Posts: 584 | From: Ohio | Registered: Sep 2005
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Personally, if you're going for a good martyr's halloween costume, I'd go with St. Peter of Verona. He was a Dominican inquisitory who was murdered by a group of Cathar assassins in the 13th century. First he was struck in the head with an axe, and then stabbed through the heart.
-------------------- "I wanna bite the hand that feeds me. I wanna bite that hand so badly. I wanna make them wish they'd never seen me." - Elvis Costello Posts: 2291 | From: The Banks of the Merrimack, MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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True story- When I was in 1st or 2nd grade, one of my friends wanted to be John the Baptist with his head on a platter. His mom said no.
A Biblical theme is way-too open ended. Too many clever or smart-assed ways to create costumes that your priest/pastor won't appreciate.
Some bad (or good, if you're into being a smart ass) ideas:
*Dress as a zombie. Say you're Lazarus. *Dress as the Grim Reaper. Say you're the Angel of Death. *Whore of Babylon (or any other prostitute/temptress) *Put a sheet over your head and say you're the Holy Ghost.
Posts: 885 | From: Florida | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by moonfall86: True story- When I was in 1st or 2nd grade, one of my friends wanted to be John the Baptist with his head on a platter. His mom said no.
My best Hallowe'en costume ever was when I was 11 or 12 and I was the Headless Horseman from "Legend of Sleepy Hollow." My father took some heavy screen wire and made a set of shoulders and a torso that fit right on top of my shoulders, with an opening in the chest where I could look out. He then make a severed neck of paper-mache and painted it. He took one of his old black turtlenecks and streached it over the framework so I could see out through the fabric, but nobody could see my face. He put an old tweed sportcoat over all and sewed a pair of dummy hands to the sleeves and glued a riding crop to one of the hands. My mother made a set of jodpurhs (sp?) and I already had a set of boots. A friend of my dad's who was a sculptor made a paper-mache head that I could carry; the top of the cranium came off like a lid, so people dropped the candy into the head. (It wasn't very big. Mother guided me (I couldn't see very well) and had an old pillowcase, so when the head got full I could dump it.
Afterwards, the torso and head lived in our baswement storeroom for several years and scared quite a few visitors and workmen.
-------------------- "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch Posts: 3307 | From: Charleston, WV | Registered: Oct 2002
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