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Author Topic: Spider-Man 3
Grumpy
Deck the Malls


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The full length trailer is out, and I have to wonder: how many hours long is this movie going to be?? It's got Sandman, the black costume & Eddie Brock, Harry's revenge, and another Mary Jane plot. Will the parts gel?

I'm not even sure I'll go out to see this one. It takes a lot to get me to a theater anymore. The last two measured up, but #3 won't have a music score by Danny Elfman, which was the main attraction for me.

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DesertRat
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I actually have a bad feeling about this movie... "Two Many Good Ideas Crammed Into Two Hours" is what ruined X-Men 3; I hope this movie doesn't suffer the same fate.

Plus, I've never been comfortable about Venom coming to film; I think he's a) one of the most overrated characters in comic history, b) not going to translate well to film, and c) going to seem forced and contrived. Remember, the comic had YEARS to build up the drama and tension of the "Black Costume Saga" before finally unveiling Venom; I fear that trying to cram all that into a single movie is going to end up with a very unbalanced plot.

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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Based on the way the trailer was edited, I'm not sure Eddie Brock will play a big roll in this movie. They might be introducing his character as a set up for a future movie in which he plays are a larger roll.

If that's the case, I don't think a two villain story is entirely out of the question. For what it's worth, imdb.com is listing Topher Grace as playing Eddie Brock as opposed to Thomas Haden Church who is being credited as Flint Marko/Sandman.

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DesertRat
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Oh, I have no doubt they'll be saving Venom til the next movie... I'd bet a month's pay that the final climactic scene of SM3 will be Eddie Brock finding the suit and becoming Venom, thus setting up SM4.

That being said... trying to cram all the subtle nuances, emotional impact, and strong sense of attachment inherent in a multi-year plotline into two hours is going to cheapen the impact of Peter Parker's battle with the costume, and its eventual merger with Brock. I had the same problem with the Phoenix storyline in X-Men 3-- by rushing it like they did, it lost all its power and emotional impact. (The Phoenix Saga, even in its revised movie form, should have been played out over several movies.)

I'm also a bit nervous about the revisions to Sandman's background (HE killed Ben Parker? WTF?)... though based on the trailer, they completely hit the mark, visually speaking. THAT's the Sandman I remember.

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High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by DesertRat:
That being said... trying to cram all the subtle nuances, emotional impact, and strong sense of attachment inherent in a multi-year plotline into two hours is going to cheapen the impact of Peter Parker's battle with the costume, and its eventual merger with Brock. I had the same problem with the Phoenix storyline in X-Men 3-- by rushing it like they did, it lost all its power and emotional impact. (The Phoenix Saga, even in its revised movie form, should have been played out over several movies.)

You have far more faith in the movie going public than I do. While it has been done in the past, I don't think the people going to see a summer type blockbuster film have the patience or the memory to see a story evolve over several films.

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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DesertRat
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I don't disagree; which is why I would argue that some stories are probably better left off of film all together. And just because a story is iconic in its original form (th Phoenix Saga) or a character has become an integral (arguably too much so) part of a given mythos (Venom) does not mean that they need to be in the films. Both the Spider-man and X-Men franchises have such a rich history to cherrypick individual storylines from, many of which would fit nicely into 2.5 hour blocks; I would argue that by making the "obvious" choices (Phoenix and Venom), the respective filmmakers made the wrong choices.

(Of course, I have to admit I may be biased, because I never really liked Venom to begin with, and was absolutely nauseated by his overuse in the late '90s.)

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High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler

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DesertRat
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Of course, I've also long felt that a movie version of Twisted Toyfare Theater would be the best comic-to-movie production the world would ever see.... [Big Grin]

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High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler

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pirateslife
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I couldn't sit through Spidey 2. The whole angst thing killed me. I literally felt sick to my stomach and I had to leave. I went into a showing that had started 30 minutes earlier and came in just at the part where he's on the train. I was fine watching from there on out. And I didn't even care what I'd missed.

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TwoGuyswithaHat
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quote:
Originally posted by DesertRat:
(Of course, I have to admit I may be biased, because I never really liked Venom to begin with, and was absolutely nauseated by his overuse in the late '90s.)

I like the idea behind Venom.

But I have no idea what you mean about overuse. Marvel would never over use a character or a story line [Razz]

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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JoFo
Joy to the world, the Wii has come.


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While I love Spidey and will be one of the first in line to see Spider-Man 3, I have to say that I have reservations about Venom on the big screen as well. DesertRat explained it perfectly, there's really nothing I can add.

Now, a villain that must be put on the big screen soon is Mysterio, the most underrated of Spider-Man's enemies. Come on, you know you'd love to see Bruce Campbell go crazy and turn into Mysterio! [Big Grin]

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1958Fury
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by DesertRat:
Of course, I've also long felt that a movie version of Twisted Toyfare Theater would be the best comic-to-movie production the world would ever see.... [Big Grin]

Then watch an entire season of Robot Chicken in one sitting [Smile]

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I've never been that big on the idea of using Venom for Spidey-3 either. But most of the Venom story took place after I'd stopped reading comics -- I had seen the "black suit from Secret Wars turns out to be alive" part of the story, but not much more than that.

I thought number 2 did a terrific job with Doc Ock, and I agree that Sandman looks perfect. Beyond that...well, the first two films were done so well that I have some hope, but I think DesertRat may well be right in the Venom/Phoenix comparison: they may be trying to cram too much in.

I also wonder if either the Spider-Man or X-Men frnachises will get beyond the third film (I haven't been following the X-Men news in this regard). I know I've heard that Kirsten Dunst has said she's definitely through playing MJ after number three -- though they could re-cast or eliminate the part without its necessarily being fatal. The very, very end of X3 certainly hinted at further sequels.

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Midgard_Dragon
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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I'll reserve judgement on the movie as a whole until I see it, but is anyone else thinking that the teaser was about 20x more exciting than the actual trailer?

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by E. Q. Taft:
I also wonder if either the Spider-Man or X-Men frnachises will get beyond the third film (I haven't been following the X-Men news in this regard). I know I've heard that Kirsten Dunst has said she's definitely through playing MJ after number three -- though they could re-cast or eliminate the part without its necessarily being fatal. The very, very end of X3 certainly hinted at further sequels.

If they are careful, and if it is done well enough they might be able to do with Spiderman what they did with James Bond, namely every few years replace a major character in the franchise and carry on as if nothing much had happened.

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trollface
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5l9fEBs4m8

A trailer that was shown at ComiCon, complete with scenes with unfinished CGI, bluescreen and even a bit of story board. Pretty good, though.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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Midgard_Dragon
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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The big news about that youtube link is that it has the Venom footage from Comic Con that everyone was going gaga over not getting to see. I must admit, Venom looks cool. Still, the teaser was much more exciting than either of the newer trailers.

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Macheath
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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From what I hear, and I should stress I've not read up on recent reports, Venom and Sandman are sort of co-villains in this next film. You also have two other villains making an appearance (one of which is essentially either Hobgoblin or Green Goblin 2, the other I don't want to spoil for anyone). If they stick with the formula they've created with the first two films, I wouldn't expect to see either Sandman or Venom in future films. Also, from what I've read this is the last film Raimi intends to direct in the series, and so it's addressing themes he set up in the first two films. In other words, I don't think he's too concerned with keeping characters alive and well for sequels.

Oh, and there's a Gwen Stacy plot to add to all the others, in case the half dozen plots already present weren't enough of a worry.

Mack da "Amazing" Knife

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VersesBatman
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Oh, and there's a Gwen Stacy plot to add to all the others, in case the half dozen plots already present weren't enough of a worry.

I hate that. I thought Sam Raimi said that Kirtsen Dunst's MJ was a merger of Gwen and MJ. I really don't get the point of bringing Gwen in. We already had the CW teen angst in the second Spiderman movie. I also find it a bit ironic that a blond plays a red-head while a red-head plays a blond.

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It's like they took a bunch of movies, put them in a blender and turned it on really fast!-Mystery Science Theater 3000

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Brandi
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
A trailer that was shown at ComiCon, complete with scenes with unfinished CGI, bluescreen and even a bit of story board. Pretty good, though.

Too bad Sony yanked it.
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Grumpy
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by DesertRat:
I'm also a bit nervous about the revisions to Sandman's background (HE killed Ben Parker? WTF?)...

That doesn't mean it can't work. I'm thinking of how the Superman animated series reinvented Brainiac as Krypton's supercomputer. Or, for that matter, the condensation of Spider-Man's origin in the first movie. And, lest we forget, organic web-shooters. I'm less worried about how this Sandman tweak conflicts with the comics than how it conflicts with the first film. They had better show the revised events in flashback form, or else I won't buy it.

Also notice how Sandman is no longer created from a nuclear blast, but in a particle accelerator. Kinda like how the movie Hulk was gamma irradiated in a laboratory, not a bomb range. I blame the Test Ban Treaty.

Here's my guess how the Harry Osborne plot will go (and it's not a spoiler, because I don't know), which has the virtue of compressing it with the Black Costume plot: Harry uses the Goblin gear to become a hero. When the black costume makes Spidey go nuts, they are forced to fight, but opposite from the sides you would think. Indeed, Harry may somehow be responsible for this version of the black costume, to frame Spidey as part of his revenge.

Perhaps this battle results in Peter's neck injury, as seen in the trailer. Deprived of a healthy host, that's when the costume attaches to Eddie.

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Rebochan the Retail Reindeer
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I'm curious if the "Sandman killed your dad" angle isn't just a red herring to lead Spider-Man into something else.

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"One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Brandi:
quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
A trailer that was shown at ComiCon, complete with scenes with unfinished CGI, bluescreen and even a bit of story board. Pretty good, though.

Too bad Sony yanked it.
Not surprised. We stressed repeatedly to the audience that there was to be NO TAPING OF THE SCREEN AT ANY TIME in the room where the big previews were happening. Sony even brought their own "anti-piracy team" who, it's rumored, were equipped with night-vision goggles. Apparently someone still snuck by them -- camcorders are so small and unobtrusive these days that I'm not sure it's possible to prevent it. Still, it would be nice if people actually considered the "obeying the rules" option....

ETA: Of course, 99% or more of them do.

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Bill Door
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Finding Rebochan:
I'm curious if the "Sandman killed your dad" angle isn't just a red herring to lead Spider-Man into something else.

"No, Peter, I am your father..."

- Bill Door

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Midgard_Dragon
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by E. Q. Taft:
quote:
Originally posted by Brandi:
quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
A trailer that was shown at ComiCon, complete with scenes with unfinished CGI, bluescreen and even a bit of story board. Pretty good, though.

Too bad Sony yanked it.
Not surprised. We stressed repeatedly to the audience that there was to be NO TAPING OF THE SCREEN AT ANY TIME in the room where the big previews were happening. Sony even brought their own "anti-piracy team" who, it's rumored, were equipped with night-vision goggles. Apparently someone still snuck by them -- camcorders are so small and unobtrusive these days that I'm not sure it's possible to prevent it. Still, it would be nice if people actually considered the "obeying the rules" option....

ETA: Of course, 99% or more of them do.

I have the footage from YouTube on my computer and this didn't look like just any ordinary joe with a camera though. It was clearly video taped, but could there have been someone from the movie/studio that was allowed to tape for future promotional shots? If not for the audience applauding in the background I would think this was from the original recording and not just someone taping, since it's so professionally done.

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VersesBatman
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Door:
quote:
Originally posted by Finding Rebochan:
I'm curious if the "Sandman killed your dad" angle isn't just a red herring to lead Spider-Man into something else.

"No, Peter, I am your father..."

- Bill Door

[lol]

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It's like they took a bunch of movies, put them in a blender and turned it on really fast!-Mystery Science Theater 3000

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ertceps
I Saw Three Shipments


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My only gripe about the trailer is why show it six months before the movie will be released?

The people who don't like this type of movie won't care no matter how good the trailer looks and those who liked the first two Spidy films will be going to see it no matter how bad the trailer might be

Also if you over promote the movie for the next six months by the time the movie opens there's almost no way even Spidy 3 can live up to the hype and the franchise(if they are hoping to make it a franchise(ala Bond)) will have suffered quite a blow

You know if the movie won't be ready for showing for another six months there's no way they can know for sure right now the flick will be as good as they hope

OK that said I'll admit the trailers I've seen so far do look pretty cool and I'll be going to see the movie when it comes out with my spidy senses all aquiver

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diddy
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by ertceps:
My only gripe about the trailer is why show it six months before the movie will be released?

The people who don't like this type of movie won't care no matter how good the trailer looks and those who liked the first two Spidy films will be going to see it no matter how bad the trailer might be

Also if you over promote the movie for the next six months by the time the movie opens there's almost no way even Spidy 3 can live up to the hype and the franchise(if they are hoping to make it a franchise(ala Bond)) will have suffered quite a blow

You know if the movie won't be ready for showing for another six months there's no way they can know for sure right now the flick will be as good as they hope

OK that said I'll admit the trailers I've seen so far do look pretty cool and I'll be going to see the movie when it comes out with my spidy senses all quiver

Ive seen movies hyped a lot longer than 6 months. It all depends upon how much they want to contribute. Usually early hyping helps to maintain audiences attention. They know that they are going to see the movie, but they have to sell it to people who are new adopters. they are basically giving something for the audience to talk about. People honestly wants to know which of Spidey's many villains are going to be next. How is going to work? The more time, the more people are going to talk about it. These trailers don't reveal heavy plot elements anyway.

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Nion
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by ertceps:
OK that said I'll admit the trailers I've seen so far do look pretty cool and I'll be going to see the movie when it comes out with my spidy senses all aquiver

But, but . . . isn't the spidy sense supposed to tell you when something bad is about to happen?! [Eek!]

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Grumpy
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by diddy:
Ive seen movies hyped a lot longer than 6 months.

Sure enough. It's common to advertise the July 4th blockbuster during the Superbowl in January.

One small example: before The Lost World in 1997, most audiences saw a teaser for 1998's Godzilla with the big iguana crushing a T. rex skeleton underfoot.

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1958Fury
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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I saw the first "Incredibles" teaser 18 months before it was released.

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faceless007
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quote:
Originally posted by ertceps:
My only gripe about the trailer is why show it six months before the movie will be released?

The major studios always have very long-term marketing strategies for big movies. Actually, six months from release is kind of short for the first theatrical preview to come out, although full trailers usually wait a little longer.

quote:
The people who don't like this type of movie won't care no matter how good the trailer looks and those who liked the first two Spidy films will be going to see it no matter how bad the trailer might be
Why do you assume those are the only two kinds of people in the world? Obviously, there's no need to promote the movie to those two groups, so the whole point of marketing is to bring in the much, much larger third group: moviegoers who won't see the film unless a trailer or preview convinces them it's worth going to.

If the only people who would go to Spider-Man 3 are those who liked the first two, why did Spider-Man 2 make so much more money than the first one?

It's all part of a (very) long-term marketing strategy, which starts by showing some teasers and building it up from there. I'm pretty sure this is only the first theatrical trailer Sony has planned; they'll probably put out another one around January.

quote:
Also if you over promote the movie for the next six months by the time the movie opens there's almost no way even Spidy 3 can live up to the hype and the franchise(if they are hoping to make it a franchise(ala Bond)) will have suffered quite a blow
One theatrical trailer is not over-promotion. You see any TV commercials or newspaper ads for it?


quote:
You know if the movie won't be ready for showing for another six months there's no way they can know for sure right now the flick will be as good as they hope
I don't know what that has to do with it. The film is so far along in production, and big movies like this require so much pre-production, that if its quality as a film was pretty much sealed a long time ago, and if the film isn't good as of now, there isn't much they could do about it.
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ertceps
I Saw Three Shipments


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The people who are ambivalent about this type of movie aren't going to care six months before the flick is released....if they go at all they most likely will see the pic AFTER they hear from the reviews and their friends telling them it's worth going to see it

The only trailers that might convince those not really interested in this kind of movie are those that come out weeks or at most a month before the movie is released

As to your other point if they are starting advertising this movie six months before release it's not unreasonable to think the advertising will only increase as the release date gets closer

A good example is the later Star War movies...they got the bejesus promoted out of them so that by the time people went to see them they were expecting the greatest movies ever made and while not as good as the original they really weren't that bad but you wouldn't know that by all the crap that's been written about them

BTW The second Spider-Man did better at the box office for two reasons...one it was simply a more entertaining movie(more spidey doing spidey things and less PP getting his powers) and second the Spidey 2 got all the Spidey fans plus all those people who were dragged into the first one and discovered it was a fun movie and so dragged their other friends to see it(not to mention all those who saw the first one on TV and it turned out they liked it so went to see the second one)

Lots of reasons why Spider-Man 2 did better than the first one and very little of it had to do with the amount of trailers for either movie

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STF
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I think it's cool that they'll give us a taste of the movie so far ahead really. I don't see how that's a negative thing at all. Whether it's effective marketing or not I don't know, but as a fan I'm glad they do it. I certainly don't believe it hurts.

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faceless007
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by ertceps:
[QB] The people who are ambivalent about this type of movie aren't going to care six months before the flick is released....

People who are ambivalent aren't going to care about any marketing. Marketing doesn't target them.

quote:
if they go at all they most likely will see the pic AFTER they hear from the reviews and their friends telling them it's worth going to see it
How can you possibly know that's how the majority of moviegoers think? By your logic, there's really no point to marketing any movie because the only things that matter are reviews, word of mouth and genre. If that were true, don't you think the studios would have figured it out now rather than spend $300 million on marketing alone?

quote:
The only trailers that might convince those not really interested in this kind of movie are those that come out weeks or at most a month before the movie is released
Again, how do you know that? How do you know that there's no one in the world who was formerly ambivalent about the film, but after seeing this trailer, does think it might be worth seeing? It's a very well put-together trailer (as Sony's often are), and it's also not the last one. How do you know better than Sony what kinds of trailers are going to attract whom?

quote:
As to your other point if they are starting advertising this movie six months before release it's not unreasonable to think the advertising will only increase as the release date gets closer
Oh, that's undoubtedly what will happen. First a teaser (several months ago), then a trailer (now), probaly another trailer in a few months, and then commercials and magazine ads start to ratched up, becoming more elaborate and ubiquitous as the release date gets closer.

quote:
A good example is the later Star War movies...they got the bejesus promoted out of them so that by the time people went to see them they were expecting the greatest movies ever made and while not as good as the original they really weren't that bad but you wouldn't know that by all the crap that's been written about them
I don't know what you're talking about. The box office returns on those films certainly seem to justify that that the marketing strategies worked, but on the other hand, they're Star Wars, they were going to make a lot of money no matter what, so they're basically exceptional.

quote:
The second Spider-Man did better at the box office for two reasons...one it was simply a more entertaining movie(more spidey doing spidey things and less PP getting his powers)
Except that doesn't explain the record-setting opening weekend of the film (because no one had seen the film before then)

quote:
and second the Spidey 2 got all the Spidey fans plus all those people who were dragged into the first one and discovered it was a fun movie and so dragged their other friends to see it(not to mention all those who saw the first one on TV and it turned out they liked it so went to see the second one)
If those are the only possibilities, why did Sony bother to market the second film at all? By your logic, they should have instead marketed the first film all over again and attached a note at the end saying "More of the same: Coming to a theater near you"

Bottom line: There was something about the second film that looked even more appealing than the first (i.e. that the sequel one-upped the first) and that could only come through in the marketing.

quote:
Lots of reasons why Spider-Man 2 did better than the first one and very little of it had to do with the amount of trailers for either movie
I very much think it did, but not so much the "amount" of trailers but the relative quality thereof. Sony's trailers and overall marketing strategy is some of the most effective I've ever seen, and there is no doubt in my mind that Spider-Man 2's record opening weekend is largely due to how well the film was marketed (not only due to that, but largely).
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1958Fury
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by STF:
I think it's cool that they'll give us a taste of the movie so far ahead really. I don't see how that's a negative thing at all. Whether it's effective marketing or not I don't know, but as a fan I'm glad they do it. I certainly don't believe it hurts.

Same here. I think of it as a gift for the fanboys. It probably doesn't make a different in ticket sales, but the comic geeks really get really psyched out about it.

Maybe it boosts action figure sales a little? Maybe it boosts comic book sales?

Also, sometimes they'll announce a teaser in advance. I know of TONS of Star Wars fans who bought tickets for "Meet Joe Black" just because one of the SW teasers premiered there (some even left right after the teaser). I don't know if it was a significant boost in MJB's ticket sales, but it couldn't have hurt.

So maybe sometimes it's not about the movie being previewed, but the movie showing the preview.

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