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Chabba
The Red and the Green Stamps


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When I was in Navy boot camp at Great (Mistakes) Lakes, Ill, I heard a story from my Recruit Division Commander about a sailor getting in dutch with his CO over sunburn. Supposedly getting sunburn is considered "destruction of government property", and is grounds for Captain's Mast. Is this true, or was it some flim-flam invented by RDC's as part of their head games?
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ToadMagnet
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It's true, the sailor's sunburn would have been considered destruction of government property.

Military personnel also sign themselves in and out of a military transport flight as "cargo," which I find interesting in an appalling sort of way.

I'll look for a cite, and not just the word of an adorable SEAL.

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ThornyWreath
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^^Poor fellow has a sunburn. That's being discussed here.

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NovaSS
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Yes you can get Captains Mast over a sunburn but I have never seen it happen, a good ass chewing maybe but thats about it. I guess if your a total screw up its a way to get rid of you.
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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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I doubt it's "destruction of government property" -- more likely "rendering oneself unfit for duty"

Four Five Kitties

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Noemi
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sign of Four Kitties:
I doubt it's "destruction of government property" -- more likely "rendering oneself unfit for duty"

That's the way it was phrased when my Dad was stationed in Morocco. If I remember right he said that they wouldn't do anything the first time and you got in trouble the second time. He said in the time he was there once was all anyone needed to learn their lesson because that first sunburn was so severe.

Noemi

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I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
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My father got a horrid sunburn falling asleep on the beach in Libya in the 1960s. He did not get in trouble with the Army, but they may have figured second degree burns across his entire back was punishment enough. Redheads and the equator don't mix!
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Delta-V
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A normal sunburn isn't a big deal. If you get yourself burnt bad enough you have to go to sick call or can't perform your duties, then it's an Article 15 offense if the commander wants to pursue it. Usually a good chewing out works better. That and having to hump a rucksack with sunburned back and shoulders is a good reminder to use sunblock next time. The Article 15 is in there to keep people from using sunburns as an excuse to get out of work.

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Magdalene
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Noemi:
quote:
Originally posted by The Sign of Four Kitties:
I doubt it's "destruction of government property" -- more likely "rendering oneself unfit for duty"

That's the way it was phrased when my Dad was stationed in Morocco. If I remember right he said that they wouldn't do anything the first time and you got in trouble the second time. He said in the time he was there once was all anyone needed to learn their lesson because that first sunburn was so severe.

Noemi

DoGP was how it was still worded when I was stationed in Panama in 1990. My boyfriend had fallen asleep on the beach and woke up eight hours later--and he was a VERY fair-skinned blue-eyed silver-blonde (parents direct from Germany, in fact). The man was literally purple. This happened just as several members of our unit (including both him and I) got tagged to do interior guard duty for two weeks--which nobody wanted to do, but to be fair, he wouldn't have sunburnt himself deliberately just to get out of it. Our CO told him he was going and he would still fulfill his duties, and if not, he'd be written up. He went, but luckily, the NCO in charge of the duty took pity on him and let him man the sign-in sheet inside wearing just his shorts.

Not quite sure why our CO was going to come down so hard on him--to be honest, he was a good soldier with a good reputation. OK, like all of us who got tagged for that, he groaned and said, "Wish I could get out of that," but he didn't mean THAT way!

Magdalene
Who remembers dousing a bottle of aloe on him a day, at least!

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Homer
 


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This is a bit OT, but I had an instructor who got a bunch of tattoos while in the service. He deceided to have them removed, and the army paid for the surgical removal.
But before the army would pay, he had to sign a statement that if he got new tattoos, he understood that he would then be guilty of destruction of Government property.

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Sea Doggie
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I have never seen anyone charged with "destruction of gov't property". The couple people I have seen go to mast were repeat offenders after being counseled already after the fisrt incident. Basically one can be charged with either malingering or self injury tacked on with disobeying a lawful order. But keep in mind that the cases I have mentioned were because those people cried about not being able to work (and they work inside a space with A/C). Everyone else know better.

So yes, you can get in trouble with the man for being sunburnt. As far as getting charged with destruction of gov't property, I have yet to see it.

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Mr. Grinch
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Ah this is a great one. Im in the Navy now and the only thing that could get you into trouble if you have a sunburn is if you are not able to fulfill your duties because of it. Since sunburn is something that can for the most part be avoided it should not come as a big suprise that you can get in trouble for it.

Im always suprised how much my non-military friends think the military is so much different then regular work most of the time. If I was in any civilian job and I had to miss work because of a sunburn you can bet I'd get in trouble there too.

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Unicorn
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I keep hearing people say that it's destruciton of government property, but nobody can every give the actual regulation, or even a precedent. It's always an "I heard" thing. Even the officers who threaton it never give the reg. I can believe the thing about malingering or under the Article about self inflicted injuries to avoid work, but destruction of government property? I think it's just the exxageration brought on by the stereotyping of the military.
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Unusual Elfin Lights
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The Canadian Military has a similar statute (if you can call it that) for dealing with severe sunburn.

In 1990 I was a student on officer training during the summer. At the end of the formal training and before the graduation, the Combat Training Centre put on this massive sports day called Exercise Spartan Warrior. The main idea behind this was that the individual platoons from all the Combat Arms schools would compete in a "stands" sports competition. All we had going into this day was our platoon, combat boots and trousers, and our respective school t-shirts.

Seeing as how it was the first week of August, it was hot and sunny. I slathered on the military issue sunscreen (SPF 8) and proceeded to abuse myself through a non-stop day of team building exercises. Sweat, dirt and blood was all over me by the end. I am, by the way, a very fair skinned person who does not tan, I burn then get back to "fish belly" white within days.

The day after the sports day I was so burned on my arms and the back of my neck that I had to report to the Medical Inspection Room (MIR). When I was at the MIR I was diagnosed with 2nd degree burns to the top of my arms and borderline 2nd degree burns to the back of my neck and ears. The duty medic who looked after me informed me that because the burns got to 2nd degree I would have to be investigated for a summary charge of "Self-Inflicted Wound". The Canadian military also has a general offense that runs as an alternate to most charges "Neglect to the Prejudice of Good Order and Discipline", which is the catch all in case the wound charge fell through.

Fortunately, it was proven throughout the initial part of the investigation that I had indeed used the supplied sunscreen (the only authorised product at that time) and therefore I had not inflicted myself with the wound and I was not negligent in protecting myself.

That was small solace as my arms were killing me and I missed grad parade because I was too sore to march in my dress uniform for all the practices. [flame]

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mnotr2
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by ToadMagnet:

Military personnel also sign themselves in and out of a military transport flight as "cargo," which I find interesting in an appalling sort of way.

I believe the technical term is "self-loading cargo".

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Etienne
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by mnotr2:
quote:
Originally posted by ToadMagnet:

Military personnel also sign themselves in and out of a military transport flight as "cargo," which I find interesting in an appalling sort of way.

I believe the technical term is "self-loading cargo".
In the merchant marine, it's "The cargo that talks back"
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resELution
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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My husband said that in the US Marines he would see people getting in trouble for things like sun burns and having too yellow of pee.
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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Before anyone asks the obvious question...

Having urine that is overly yellow means that you are dehydrated and are disobeying orders to remain hydrated. I have also seen NCOs disciplined for not making sure their guys were hydrated.

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Rhiandmoi
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Or it could mean that you have sub par kidney function. I have much darker urine than is expected for the amount of water I drink. I am no where near dehydrated, (more like flooded!) but I rarely have that watered down lemonade urine that the urologist is looking for. [Frown]

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S.P.E.C.T.R.E.
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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When I was a young Seaman Apprentice, a buddy and I spent too much time in the sun at the base pool. I wasn't too bad, but my buddy, who fell asleep, was pealing like a lizard and had to go to the hospital that night. Nothing happened to either one of us, but our Chief had a good laugh. [Smile]

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mnotr2
Jingle Bell Hock


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Military service is a wonderful thing... it doesn't seem to make sense, but usualy there's a method to the madness.

For example -

There are as many seemingly innocent things that will get you into trouble in the military as there are ways to avoid work. I don't want to stand watch, or go to the field so I get an outrageous sunburn, go to the doctor and get excused from duty. I don't want to endure a particular training exercise so I dehydrate to avoid it. I've seen both examples in my day.

I would not write up an outstanding soldier for something as trivial as getting a sunburn, but if a dirt-bag got a sunburn at the most (in)opportune time I'd sure consider it.

Mnot - and don't even ask what the UCMJ considers "deviant sex" - r2

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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mnotr2, were you ever in any of my units?? I have seen both as well!!!

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Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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mnotr2
Jingle Bell Hock


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Different branches I think, but troops are pretty much the same across the board.

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snopes
Return! Return! Return!


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Comment: If a member of the armed forces gets a sunburn, rumor has it that
they can be tried or 'Destruction of Government Property.' As a vetera, I
think it is a lot of crap and rumors. I saw lots of guys get sunburns.
Nothing ever came of it.

Making a person the 'property' of the government would be slavery. Right?

So, while I can believe a member of the military could get in trouble for
getting a sunburn that prevents them from performing their duties, I can
not believe that anyone has ever been charged and convicted under Article
15 for 'Destruction of Government Property' because of a sunburn.

What is the truth?

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diddy
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Comment:
Making a person the 'property' of the government would be slavery. Right?

Unless the military kidnaps you and forces you to serve them (drafting is not included here) than no. You made an agreement to serve them. You are a part of the military services (IE employee). YOu can be charged with negligence or making yourself unfil to serve, but I doubt that they can do much more than that.

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Senior
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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The "sunburn is destruction of government property" myth has been around for centuries. As diddy says, you can be charged with negligence or, if it's done purposely, with malingering. Plus, of course, Article 134, conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline, covers a multitude of sins.

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Bonnie
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
The "sunburn is destruction of government property" myth has been around for centuries.
So, how long do you suggest "for centuries" is?

Bonnie "Bronzed Age" Taylor

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Se non è vero, è ben trovato.

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Senior
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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In the U.S. forces, since before the Civil War, which took place in the 19th Century. 21 - 19 = 2. However, the British Army has the same myth. The Coldstream Guards was first raised as a regiment in 1656.

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Ad astra per asparagus.

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Bonnie
The Red and the Green Stamps


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What are your sources documenting the historical longevity of this misconception? I'd certainly be interested in seeing reports contemporaneous with the U.S. Civil War and Stuart-era instances of a belief in "sunburn is destruction of government property."

Bonnie "See and Seek" Taylor

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Se non è vero, è ben trovato.

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ASL
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by diddy:
quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Comment:
Making a person the 'property' of the government would be slavery. Right?

Unless the military kidnaps you and forces you to serve them (drafting is not included here) than no. You made an agreement to serve them. You are a part of the military services (IE employee). YOu can be charged with negligence or making yourself unfil to serve, but I doubt that they can do much more than that.
But what you describe is not property. The government does not own you.

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I realize they were just making a point, but I recall being told by Drill Instructors that they owned me on several occasions!! [lol]

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Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...

Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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diddy
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by ASL:
quote:
Originally posted by diddy:
quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Comment:
Making a person the 'property' of the government would be slavery. Right?

Unless the military kidnaps you and forces you to serve them (drafting is not included here) than no. You made an agreement to serve them. You are a part of the military services (IE employee). YOu can be charged with negligence or making yourself unfil to serve, but I doubt that they can do much more than that.
But what you describe is not property. The government does not own you.
Nor did I ever say that, my entire point was that you enter into s service agreement with the militarty when you sign up with them. I never said that they "owned you" in any way shape or form. I was correcting the false premise that snopes was commenting on that military servce was akin to slavery.

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ConstableDorfl
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by Senior:
The "sunburn is destruction of government property" myth has been around for centuries. As diddy says, you can be charged with negligence or, if it's done purposely, with malingering. Plus, of course, Article 134, conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline, covers a multitude of sins.

In the British navy at least up until WWII, venereal disease was considered a 'self-inflicted wound' and punished accordingly. Surely sunburn would be the same?

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mnotr2
Jingle Bell Hock


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From the Manual for Courts-Martial
Article 108 Military property of the United States - sale, loss, damage, destruction, or wrongful disposition
Para c(1)
quote:

Military property is all property, real or personal, owned, held, or used by one of the armed forces of the United States...(emphasis added)

Article 115 Malingering

quote:

Any person subject to this chapter who for the purpose of avoiding work, duty, or service ... intentionally inflicts self-injury...

The first would possibly be easier to prove than the latter...

Keeping in mind that Non-judicial punishment is a tool for a command to use to correct minor infractions without "the stigma of a court-martial conviction" it is possible that a soldier could be charged under article 108 for getting a sunburn. Non-judicial punishment (Article 15) can be seen as sort of a plea bargain. A soldier can refuse an Article 15 and demand trial by court martial, but the potential punishment is much more severe if convicted by court-martial. So... even though the charge of "destruction of military property" may not stand up in court, so to speak, it could be used in an Article 15. A troop who knows he/she screwed up, is facing relatively light punishment (a few days extra duty, restriction) under Article 15 vs. conviction by court-martial (substantial fine, confinement, less than honorable discharge) could accept the charge, do the punishment and move on with their life. So... sure, it could happen.

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The Rubber Chicken
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If a sunburn could fall under Article 108, then so could, presumably, any injury. If I break my leg playing basketball, get into a car accident, trip and fall, etc. all of those would seem to fit the definition. I've seen plenty of Soldiers injured badly enough to be put on profile for a long period of time, and none of them were charged under article 108. A Soldier I worked with got drunk (and he was under 21), tripped and fell down an embankment, and injured his shoulder, and was given a profile. He was given an article 15 for underage drinking, but nothing regarding "damage of government property."

Maybe Article 108 could be used for a sunburn. Maybe it was used in that manner in the past and just isn't now. But I am skeptical that any commander in the military today would charge a Soldier with "damaging government property" for a sunburn.

I have a friend who is a JAG lawyer so I suppose I could give him a ring and ask.

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