Not if you deny people the choice to, say, sing the national anthem in another language. Hell, you RE-WROTE THE WORDS to ours and tried to pass if off as one of your own songs...
-------------------- "The United States Government: significantly less cruel and sadistic than the Taliban." - Dara Posts: 1289 | From: Aberdeen University, Aberdeen, UK | Registered: Nov 2003
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Not if you deny people the choice to, say, sing the national anthem in another language. Hell, you RE-WROTE THE WORDS to ours and tried to pass if off as one of your own songs...
Apparently this is the country of choice because you have the choice to do what you're told or get out.
Purple--lest we forget that whole Tower of Babel thing--Iguana
-------------------- They just don't make crazed, beserk robots like they used to. --Sheen Estevez, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius
If I manage to post something swipe-worthy that you would like to make your sig, you may do so with my blessing. Posts: 2486 | From: East Stroudsburg, PA | Registered: Oct 2005
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-------------------- High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler Posts: 3402 | From: New Bern, NC | Registered: May 2004
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quote:.. they want to sing OUR National Anthem in Spanish...
Its like those deaf people that want to sign the national anthem - its unnatural!
Dropbear
-------------------- " The villagers had said justice had been done, and she'd lost patience and told them to go home, then, and pray to whatever gods they believed in that it was never done to them. -- (Terry Pratchett) Posts: 823 | From: Hobart, Tasmania | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: Heh, I got that one last week. I even ranted about it in my MySpace blog.
Just read your blog, but can't comment there - don't want to register. But two minor points...
quote: To put his name on money, the root of all evil?
It is the love of money that is the root of all evil, not money itself.
But secondly, the point is moot, as your national motto is "E Pluribus Unum", not "In God We Trust". Hell, I'm a foreigner, and I know that.
-------------------- Q. What's the difference between a Computer saleman and a Used Car Salesman? A. The Used Car Salesman knows when he is lying. Posts: 421 | From: Victoria, Australia | Registered: Jul 2005
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DOYC forbid that people should actually be able to sing a song that holds meaning for them in the language they think in.
They call it "The land of the free and the home of the brave," but they treat it like "The homeland of those who seek to control others out of fear."
Nonny
-------------------- When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 10141 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2000
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quote: Nowhere did they sing it in Italian, Japanese, Polish, Irish (Celtic), German, Portuguese, Greek, French, or any other language because of immigration.
...except they did. In the US. In German. At least a translation was published in 1861, and I'll assume people who bought it intended to sing it.
Plus, if I were to write a froth-at-the-mouth chain mail about the US anthem, I'd petition to replace it with something that your average person can sing, not about the fact that it can be sung in different languages. Posts: 315 | From: Berlin, Germany | Registered: Mar 2005
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I received this for the SECOND time today, but from a different person. It had this second part tacked onto the end:
quote:This says it all! This is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a Tampa newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!
IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However...... the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct! " crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.
I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans.....we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Greek, Polish, Italian, French, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women.......on Christian principles............. founded this nation..... and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home.........because God is part of our culture.
If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so! But once you are done complaining....... Whining...... and griping.......about our flag......our pledge......our national motto.......or our way of life...I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other Great American Freedom....
THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
-------------------- "I find them to be in contradiction of the basic principles of YOUR MOM!!!" -We've Got Mail Posts: 1361 | From: Muncie, IN | Registered: Sep 2005
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Oh, dis, peux-tu voir aux premières lueurs de l'aube Ce que nous acclamions si fièrement aux dernières lueurs du crépuscule ? Ce que, avec ses larges rayures et ses brillantes étoiles, pendant le combat périlleux, par-dessus les remparts, nous regardions flotter si vaillamment ? Et les éclats rouges des fusées, les bombes éclatant dans l'air, Prouvaient au travers de la nuit que notre drapeau était toujours là. Oh, dis, est-ce que cette bannière parsemée d'étoiles flotte toujours, Par-dessus la terre des hommes libres, et la patrie des hommes braves ?
-------------------- Desperate, but not serious. Posts: 689 | From: Confoederatio Helvetica | Registered: Sep 2005
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-------------------- "I find them to be in contradiction of the basic principles of YOUR MOM!!!" -We've Got Mail Posts: 1361 | From: Muncie, IN | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Major D. Saster: Oh, dis, peux-tu voir aux premières lueurs de l'aube Ce que nous acclamions si fièrement aux dernières lueurs du crépuscule ? Ce que, avec ses larges rayures et ses brillantes étoiles, pendant le combat périlleux, par-dessus les remparts, nous regardions flotter si vaillamment ? Et les éclats rouges des fusées, les bombes éclatant dans l'air, Prouvaient au travers de la nuit que notre drapeau était toujours là. Oh, dis, est-ce que cette bannière parsemée d'étoiles flotte toujours, Par-dessus la terre des hommes libres, et la patrie des hommes braves ?
French? FRENCH! You translated the NATIONAL ANTHEM into the language of the "cheese eating surrender monkeys"? A nation so badly maligned by its refusal to participate in or sanction the Iraq war some loonies started calling McDonald's chips "Freedom Fries" ? And you translated the NATIONAL ANTHEM into THAT language?
INTO FRENCH?! FRENCH?11
Bravo!
Dropbear
-------------------- " The villagers had said justice had been done, and she'd lost patience and told them to go home, then, and pray to whatever gods they believed in that it was never done to them. -- (Terry Pratchett) Posts: 823 | From: Hobart, Tasmania | Registered: Jun 2005
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To be honest, it's a translation I found on Wikipedia, and it's a wee too litteral for my taste. Personally, I'd write :
Dis-moi, aperçois-tu aux premières lueurs de l'aube Ce que nous acclamions si fièrement aux derniers rayons du soir ? L'emblème aux larges rayures et aux brillantes étoiles Qui au coeur du périlleux combat flottait vaillamment sur nos ramparts ? Dans la lueur rouge des fusées, les bombes éclatant dans l'air, Témoignaient dans la nuit que notre drapeau malgré tout demeurait. Dis-moi, la bannière étoilée flotte-t-elle encore Sur la terre des hommes libres, et la patrie des braves ?
It sounds better.
Major "La Fayette, nous voilà" D.Saster.
-------------------- Desperate, but not serious. Posts: 689 | From: Confoederatio Helvetica | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Michael Cole: But secondly, the point is moot, as your national motto is "E Pluribus Unum", not "In God We Trust". Hell, I'm a foreigner, and I know that.
quote:July 30 1956 -- The President signed a Joint Resolution declaring that the motto In God We Trust would be the national motto
(The quote is from a linked page)
-------------------- Patrick Posts: 576 | From: Illinois | Registered: Dec 2002
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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
So if the motto reflects the views of the founders, then the USA was founded in 1956? I always thought it was older than that.
I never quite get this idea that the founders of the USA obviously wanted it to be a Christian nation with God mentioned in all its mottoes and slogans. If that's the case, then it does seem rather an oversight that they didn't actually say so. In fact, it looks very much as though they deliberately didn't say so, which is odd, because in other respects they were quite articulate and intelligent. It's a good thing the McCarthy lot were around to clarify their intentions and correct their mistakes.
How can it "not be a Christian slogan" when the next sentence argues that it was adopted to reflect the Christian ideals of the founders?
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Greek, Polish, Italian, French, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
Right. So when you go to the rodeo to see the lasso competition, be sure they only speak English. And later, when you go out for some dim sum, be sure they only speak English. If you go to IKEA to buy a futon, be sure they only speak English. And when you go to vote in our democracy, be sure they only speak English. After all, it is the lingua franca of the world. To speak any other language than English should be verboten.
-------------------- IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women.......on Christian principles............. founded this nation
Leaving aside the "Were the founding fathers of America actually Christian?" debate... contradict yourself much? Cuz, I figured that founding a country on Christian principles is a pretty political act, and America is a fairly right wing place (even the Democrats and liberals) by international standards.
BringThe "You are free to do as we tell you! You are free to do as we tell you!" Noise
-------------------- "The United States Government: significantly less cruel and sadistic than the Taliban." - Dara Posts: 1289 | From: Aberdeen University, Aberdeen, UK | Registered: Nov 2003
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GenYus, it's just that we don't want those people down in the barrio contaminating our language. Imagine this: it's a Friday night, and you're at Finale, treating your fiancee to a smorgasboard of cappuccinos and chocolate cakes a la mode, when suddenly you hear the chef mangling the English language in front of an impressionable kindergartner. Remember, we have OUR OWN LANGUAGE (see black roses' post!) and we ain't much for evolution, neither!
Esprise "too bad most of us can't speak it properly" Me
-------------------- "If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf Posts: 977 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Oct 2005
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Do you have to mistreat the language of glory and heroes that way? It's smörgåsbord for Ogg's sake!
-------------------- Små hönor skall inte lägga stora ägg för då blir de slarviga i ändan Posts: 1334 | From: Sweden | Registered: Feb 2000
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I had to learn the Pledge of Allegiance in Spanish my first year of high school (in Spanish class). Ironically, that was the only time I've actually said the Pledge since fourth grade, when I learned what all the words meant and was horrified that adults were making children swear to something none of us understood.
-------------------- "He feeds the sparrows of the field, but He doesn't sit there and cram worms into their mouths." -- Mouse Posts: 396 | From: Pasadena, CA | Registered: Jan 2006
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My high school required the same thing, UrbanRenewal.
People need to cut immigrants a little slack. Learning a language takes time and effort. I feel like it's common sense to at least learn a few words of the language if you go to another country- but that goes for American tourists as well. It felt really awkward for me to be in France and Italy and not know the language. Still, it takes time to become fluent, so give the immigrants a break. They're probably trying harder than you think.
Posts: 885 | From: Florida | Registered: May 2004
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I wonder how many conservatives who get their panties in a twist over concessions made to non-English-speaking U.S. residents have actually tried learning a second language.
Esprise "took me seven years to become remotely proficient in Spanish" Me
-------------------- "If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf Posts: 977 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Esprise Me: I wonder how many conservatives who get their panties in a twist over concessions made to non-English-speaking U.S. residents have actually tried learning a second language.
Esprise "took me seven years to become remotely proficient in Spanish" Me
Pshaw. All politicans speak a second language... ENGLISH. Cause we all know that when God destroyed the tower of Babel he sent those who spoke babble to Washington.
quote:Originally posted by Dropbear: ...French? FRENCH! You translated the NATIONAL ANTHEM into the language of the "cheese eating surrender monkeys"? A nation so badly maligned by its refusal to participate in or sanction the Iraq war some loonies started calling McDonald's chips "Freedom Fries" ? And you translated the NATIONAL ANTHEM into THAT language?
INTO FRENCH?! FRENCH?!!
Bravo!
Dropbear
It's my understanding that Canada's National Hymn, "O Canada," was originally written in French(!!), and was composed by a French-Canadian, by name Calixa Lavallee.
As if that weren't enough, the English lyrics to "O Canada" in common used are nowhere close to the original French such of Judge Armande-Adolphe Routhier, notwithstanding one Toronto song publisher's attempt in this respect, vintage 1905:
quote: O Canada! Our fathers' land of old! Thy brow is crown'd with leaves of red and gold! From beneath the shade of the Holy Cross, Thy children own their birth! No stains thy glorious annals gloss, Since Valour own their hearth! A-mighty G-d! On Thee we call: Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall; Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall!
-------------------- "Nie lees die hoofopskrifte--lees die daagliks phosdex in plaas ..." Posts: 1316 | From: Winona, MN | Registered: Mar 2000
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According to this site , O Canada was originally written in French and this is a closer translation of the original French lyric
O Canada! Land of our forefathers Thy brow is wreathed with a glorious garland of flowers. As is thy arm ready to wield the sword, So also is it ready to carry the cross. Thy history is an epic of the most brilliant exploits. Ch. Thy valour steeped in faith Will protect our homes and our rights Will protect our homes and our rights.
Ô Canada! Terre de nos aïeux, Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux! Car ton bras sait porter l'épée, Il sait porter la croix! Ton histoire est une épopée Des plus brillants exploits. Et ta valeur, de foi trempée, Protégera nos foyers et nos droits, Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
-------------------- You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons. -Blazing Saddles Posts: 1074 | From: High Level, Alberta, Canada | Registered: Mar 2006
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The Star-Spangled Banner, Babelfished into French and back into English:
quote:Can Ah, word see you by the first light of the paddle what so much proudly we hailed with the last to shine of the twilight? With which broad lines and luminous holds the first role by the perilous combat, O' er the ramparts which we observed let us run so much valiantly? And the red gleam of the rocket, the bombs bursting in air, provided evidence by the night that our flag was always there. Does Ah, word make that banner however vague O' er to hold the first role-spangled the ground of free and the house of facing?
-------------------- Patrick Posts: 576 | From: Illinois | Registered: Dec 2002
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I pray for one last landing On the globe that gave me birth; May I rest my eyes on fleecy skies And the cool green hills of earth.
-------------------- "No matter what kind of a twisted sexual mutant you happen to be, you've got millions of pals out there. Type in 'Find people that have sex with goats that are on fire' and the computer will say, 'Specify type of goat.'" Posts: 1112 | From: Ohio | Registered: Jul 2000
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Actually, seeing as how Key stole the tune outright from an old English drinking song...I say we make the author of this tripe look up all those verses and memorise them.
-------------------- "Want you to know that if I had been there and they had of cooked you, I would not of eaten any." - Porkypine, Pogo Posts: 71 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2006
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Not to mention the fact that it's only been our national anthem since 1931.
-------------------- Triumphs cannot be given. They must be taken, and the worse the odds, and the fiercer the resistance, the greater the honor. -- A Civil Campaign, Lois McMaster Bujold Posts: 638 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Francis Scott Key first published his impressions of the Fort McHenry victory as a broadside poem, with a note that it should be sung to the popular British melody "To Anacreon in Heaven."
Anyway, since it's the words at issue here and not the music, it's a moot point. I just really, really like the idea of watching the glurge author try to rationalise lines like:
I'll trim the young dogs, For thus daring to twine The Myrtle of Venus With Bacchus' Vine."
-------------------- "Want you to know that if I had been there and they had of cooked you, I would not of eaten any." - Porkypine, Pogo Posts: 71 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2006
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