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Author Topic: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
snopes
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Can a good Muslim be a good American?

That question was forwarded to a person that worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.


The following is his forwarded reply:


Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon God of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

You had better believe it.

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asnakeny
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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon God of Arabia.

moon God? [Confused]

I think not. I say we convince this commenter that Allah is the God of the Bridge of Brooklyn, which is conveniently up for sale...

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Norton II
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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon God of Arabia.

The moon God? Allah is a monotheistic God.

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

The last time I looked, the US wasn't a theocracy. Therefore, it doesn't matter what religion is accepted by Allah, because Americans can be any (or none) religion they want.

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

The Five Pillars of Islam are:
  • Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad
  • Saying daily prayers
  • Concern for and almsgiving to the needy
  • Self-purification through fasting
  • The pilgrimage to Mecca for those who are able
I fail to see how the Five Pillars prevent one from being an American.

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Does this also mean that Jews can't be real Americans? Because the Passover Seder ends with "Next year in Jerusalem."

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Actually it doesn't, but what are mere facts when you're in full anti-Muslim rant?

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Mullahs are only found in the Shiite branch of Islam. The Sunnis have Imams, the Sufis have Shaykhs (sheikhs, which means "leaders") and the Druse have al-Ajawīd, a term that means "The Good Ones." Not all mullahs teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America.

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

A Muslim is allowed to have up to four wives, there is no requirement to have all four.

"You will be eager for your husband and he will rule over you" -Genesis 3:16

"Wives be subservient to your husbands" -Ephesians 5:22

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Since the Constitution is not based on Biblical principles, this non sequitur is meaningless.

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

I can think of several Muslim governments which are at least pro forma democracies. I can think of a whole lot of non-Muslim governments which are dictatorial or autocratic or both.

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Are we talking about the same Christian God (a) who is not officially part of the American political system and (b) in whose name numerous religious wars were fought? That Christian God?

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

And while you're at it, watch out for the bogeyman, because he isn't a good American either.

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
You had better believe it.

Or else the bogeyman will get you.

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Roofus
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quote:
The last time I looked, the US wasn't a theocracy. Therefore, it doesn't matter what religion is accepted by Allah, because Americans can be any (or none) religion they want.
THIS IS A CHRISTIAN NATION ACCEPT IT OR MOVE TO CANADA!!!!!! 9/11! (Sorry. Couldn't resist.)
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Psihala
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You'd never make it on "We've Got Mail"... your spelling is too good and you left off all the colorful invectives.

~Psihala

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BrianB
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quote:
Originally posted by asnakeny:
moon God? [Confused]

I think not. I say we convince this commenter that Allah is the God of the Bridge of Brooklyn, which is conveniently up for sale...

The myth that Muslims worship a pagan moon god is a popular one among some evangelical protestants as this page on Chick.com and this page on the 700 Club website show.
Brian

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Errata
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I'm not too stoked about sharing a country with whoever wrote this nonsense. America is a secular country with a Christian majority. The two aren't mutually exclusive. People are welcome to their superstition of choice, but its the fact that the majority can set those aside in their public lives and interact secularly that allows us to function in the modern world rather than the middle ages.
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effo5231
I Saw Three Shipments


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When Evelyn Beatrice Hall wrote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"... she hadn't counted on donkey-holes like this.

Its guys like this who make you wish there was a "except for jerks like you" clause to the First Ammendmant.

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Troberg
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I didn't know that Jack Chick had worked for 20 years in Saudi Arabia...

Besides, I strongly doubt that someone who has chosen to work in Saudi for 20 years would write something like that. Why on earth would you live in a society that so clearly does not fit you for two decades?

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/Troberg

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Midgard_Dragon
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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:
I didn't know that Jack Chick had worked for 20 years in Saudi Arabia...

Besides, I strongly doubt that someone who has chosen to work in Saudi for 20 years would write something like that. Why on earth would you live in a society that so clearly does not fit you for two decades?

My sentiments exactly. I had a similar post typed, but didn't bother. Basically, I think this whole message was written by the same person, and the "sent, replied, etc." parts were written to make it a better story.

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Amigone201
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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Therefore after much study and deliberation....

Where has there been study and/or deliberation? I suggest you try some.

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James D
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quote:
Originally posted by asnakeny:
quote:
Originally posted by snopes:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon God of Arabia.

moon God? [Confused]

I think not. I say we convince this commenter that Allah is the God of the Bridge of Brooklyn, which is conveniently up for sale...

Perhaps they have confused Allah with Muad'Dib, the kangaroo mouse after which the prophet/messiah Paul Atredies takes his name and is seen as an image in one of the moons of Arrakis - also known as Dune.

It wouldn't suprise me too much, as Herbert did base the fremen (aka Zensuni wanderers) loosely off of various inhabitants of southeastern asia/northern Africa.

stranger things have happened

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Noemi
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So, any bets on how long it is before we see this re-written to be on atheists, pagans, or another religion?

Noemi

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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
My blog, no guarantees about witty or intelligent content. My current projects.
Coveted Beads <---- our eBay store, new items being added somewhat regularly

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Mr. Billion
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Done.

quote:
Can a good Christian be a good American?

That question was asked of a person that lived in America for more than 20 years.


The following is his made-up reply:


Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Jehova, the man-God of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his God (Exodus chapter 20, the first commandment: "you shall have no other gods before me")

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the ten commandments.

Politically - no. Because they all too frequently listen to frothing-at-the-mouth psychos like Pat Robertson, and guys who write emails like the one above.

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot stop insisting that the American Constitution is based on Biblical principles.

Et cetera. It's way too easy to write ridiculous stuff like that. It's just sad that some people believe it.

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"For the U.S. to get involved militarily in determining the outcome of the struggle over who's going to govern Iraq strikes me as a classic definition of a quagmire." ~Dick Cheney.

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Troberg
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quote:
It wouldn't suprise me too much, as Herbert did base the fremen (aka Zensuni wanderers) loosely off of various inhabitants of southeastern asia/northern Africa.
Not only that, the story pretty much mirrors (in an exaggerated way, of course) the story of T E Lawrence (aka Lawrence of Arabia).

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/Troberg

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Gerard Morvan
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Well, in the 19th century, it was the Catholics (spies for the Pope), in the 20th, it was the Jews (remember Leo Franks), now it's the Muslims. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

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Neffti Noel
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I would just like to applaud this message for signing off with such water-tight BS insurance:

"Call it what you wish... it's still the truth. You had better believe it."

I might just make that my new sig.

ETA - I am also deeply enamoured with the idea that someone who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years is automatically an authority on Islam.

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lazerus the duck
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Billion:
Done.

quote:
Can a good Christian be a good American?

That question was asked of a person that lived in America for more than 20 years.


The following is his made-up reply:


Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Jehova, the man-God of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his God (Exodus chapter 20, the first commandment: "you shall have no other gods before me")

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the ten commandments.

Politically - no. Because they all too frequently listen to frothing-at-the-mouth psychos like Pat Robertson, and guys who write emails like the one above.

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot stop insisting that the American Constitution is based on Biblical principles.

Et cetera. It's way too easy to write ridiculous stuff like that. It's just sad that some people believe it.
You missed Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Jehova, the man-God of Arabia not to oil.

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All the world's a face, And all the men and women merely acne.

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Ophiuchus
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All these things are pretty much true about Jews and Christians, especially Catholics, as well.

And the Constitution was NOT based on Biblical principles, it was based on principles that ran 100% contrary to the bible...

You will find nothing in the bible that says that the majority can or will choose the proper path nor that freedom is a good thing. In fact, you'll find a lot to the contrary.

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snopes
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Can a good Catholic be a good American?

That question was forwarded to a person that worked in Italy for 20 years.

The following is his forwarded reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to the papacy.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his God, who commanded: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3).

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the four gospels and the Bible.

Geographically - no. Because his holy sites are in Palestine.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Catholicism forbids him to make friends with Protestants, Jews, or Muslims.

Politically - no. Because his allegiance is to Rome, where he turns for leadership in all matters.

Domestically - no. Because his God commands women to be subservient to men (Genesis 3:16).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is a based on secular principles and he believes the secular world to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Catholicism, God, and the Bible do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Catholicism and democracy cannot co-exist. Every Catholic government has been either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because Allah is loving and kind, while God is wrathful and destructive ("Leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord'" - Romans 12:19-21).

Morally - no. Because he must submit to priests (spiritual leaders), who engage in pederasty.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL CATHOLICS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Catholics and good Americans. Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

You had better believe it.

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Brandi
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Actually, odds are that the person who came up with the original wad-o-crap would agree with you; many fundmentalists are very anti-Catholic.
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Errata
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Yes, a lot of evangelicals will act like Catholicism isn't even a branch of Christianity. And not as a conscious insult but as an uncontroversial statement of fact, like nobody could possibly argue that Catholics are Christians. They don't use the word "Protestant", they use the word "Christian" as if it were synonymous with "Protestant".
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Audrey06037
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I think stereotyping a group of people for any reason is very dangerous. Remember Hitler?

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pinqy
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quote:
Originally posted by Audrey06037:
I think stereotyping a group of people for any reason is very dangerous. Remember Hitler?

Yeah, but all those Austrians are the same.

pinqy

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react2distract
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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
quote:
Originally posted by Audrey06037:
I think stereotyping a group of people for any reason is very dangerous. Remember Hitler?

Yeah, but all those Austrians are the same.

pinqy

That's a good 'un. [lol]
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Jason Threadslayer
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quote:
Originally posted by Norton II:
The Five Pillars of Islam are:
  • Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad
  • Saying daily prayers
  • Concern for and almsgiving to the needy
  • Self-purification through fasting
  • The pilgrimage to Mecca for those who are able

The Shi'ites break their doctrines up into the five Roots of Religion and ten Branches of Religion.

quote:
Originally posted by Norton II:
Mullahs are only found in the Shiite branch of Islam. The Sunnis have Imams,

Mullah Mohammed Omar is Sunni.

The Twelve Shi'a leaders are the Imams and the Shi'a await the return of the Twelfth Imam, Muhammed al-Mahdi.

Imam is also the title of the person who leads prayers in a mosque.

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Doug4.7
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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
...Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL CATHOLICS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Catholics and good Americans. Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

You had better believe it.

Well golly gee willikers, glad I just got my passport renewed (and got one for each of my kids). I thought we were going to Europe for a short vacation, not as a permanent move... [Wink]

Of course, you realize, that is one reason some people think we can't have a Catholic President...

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And now for something completely different...

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SiKboy
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug4.7:
quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
...Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL CATHOLICS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Catholics and good Americans. Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

You had better believe it.

Well golly gee willikers, glad I just got my passport renewed (and got one for each of my kids). I thought we were going to Europe for a short vacation, not as a permanent move... [Wink]

Of course, you realize, that is one reason some people think we can't have a Catholic President...

Wasnt JFK a catholic?

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by SiKboy:
quote:
Originally posted by Doug4.7:
Of course, you realize, that is one reason some people think we can't have a Catholic President...

Wasnt JFK a catholic?
Yes. It was a joke.

People actually did express some of those concerns about Catholics during that election.

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Kathleen O'Hara
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Comparing JFK's Catholism with the MUSLIM religion is RIDICULOUS !!!! Catholism is a very tolerant religion...was back in the 1960's and is even "more lenient" in today's society. Having said that, JFK was NOT A DEVOTE CATHOLIC...Jackie was, but HE WAS NOT ! Devote Catholics don't lie, hang with the MOB or cheat on their wives. He was, however, a very good President and was extremely protective of Americans and the USA. Which is all that mattered, in my opinion as far as what he was elected to do and what the American people expected of him as President of the USA. Our society is NOT a theocracy and as President I do not believe JFK or any other President would
super impose their personal beliefs onto the American people. I know that Geo. W. has been accused of doing that...I,personally do not believe he has FORCED anything in that direction.
I feel very qualified to say this: I am a New Orleans CATHOLIC...so, I know George W. Bush has made errors...I just don't happen to think anything he has done is done that resulted with negative results was ever done with a malicious or evil intent.

Kathleen

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Kathleen O'Hara:
Comparing JFK's Catholism with the MUSLIM religion is RIDICULOUS !!!!

Did you miss the part about it being a joke?

It is, however, a historical fact that JFK's Catholicism was an issue in the election. People really did suggest that he might put loyalty to the Pope ahead of loyalty to the nation. I agree that such concerns were absurd, but they did exist.

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Simply Madeline
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But the comparison itself is not ridiculous. The comparison points out how ridiculous the original post is.
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Mr. Billion
The First USA Noel


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By the way, welcome to the boards, Kathleen.

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SiKboy
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by SiKboy:
quote:
Originally posted by Doug4.7:
Of course, you realize, that is one reason some people think we can't have a Catholic President...

Wasnt JFK a catholic?
Yes. It was a joke.

People actually did express some of those concerns about Catholics during that election.

[Bangs side of irony-o-meter] Dammit, I think I forgot to put batteries in this darn thing again...

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Zachary Fizz
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quote:
Originally posted by Kathleen O'Hara:
Comparing JFK's Catholism with the MUSLIM religion is RIDICULOUS !!!! Catholism is a very tolerant religion...was back in the 1960's and is even "more lenient" in today's society. Having said that, JFK was NOT A DEVOTE CATHOLIC...Jackie was, but HE WAS NOT ! Devote Catholics don't lie, hang with the MOB or cheat on their wives. He was, however, a very good President and was extremely protective of Americans and the USA. Which is all that mattered, in my opinion as far as what he was elected to do and what the American people expected of him as President of the USA. Our society is NOT a theocracy and as President I do not believe JFK or any other President would
super impose their personal beliefs onto the American people. I know that Geo. W. has been accused of doing that...I,personally do not believe he has FORCED anything in that direction.
I feel very qualified to say this: I am a New Orleans CATHOLIC...so, I know George W. Bush has made errors...I just don't happen to think anything he has done is done that resulted with negative results was ever done with a malicious or evil intent.

Kathleen

After some of what I have read on these boards and sites like chick.com, I would certainly have misgivings if this nation were to embrace Catholicism. Is it true that the Catholics do not worship Allah at all, but a made-up pagan god, or possibly the devil? I visited Italy a couple of times and all the women over a certain age seemed to have to wear black. It's pretty scary, to be honest.
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