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Author Topic: When WWIII Started- 1979
mrs.hi-c clown fishies
Happy Holly Days


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I'm not sure if this appeared in the messageboards yet, and I could only find a somewhat similar account on Snopes...so chow me if it's on here somewhere, and feel free to blast away [Smile]

***

When WWIII Started - 1979

This is not very long, but very informative. You have to read the catalogue of events in this brief piece. Then, ask yourself how anyone can take the position that all we have to do is bring our troops home from Iraq, sit back, reset the snooze alarm, go back to sleep, and no one will ever bother us again. In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979... that alarm has been ringing for years

US Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air Station, Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this action is so necessary.

AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.

America's military had been decimated and down sized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later in 1983 a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

Then in August 1985 a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.

Fifty-nine days later in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4, and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in1988, killing 259.

Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.
The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed w! ith explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and ro ll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high official in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

I think we have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough. Ameri ca needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make t! he sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "... it seems all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year, this is an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.

If you believe in this please forward it to as many people as you can, especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action. If you don't believe it, just delete it and go back to sleep.

After reading this, why would anyone (other then slime politicians) object to President Bush's electronic surveillance plan, or anything else he needs to do to keep us safe!

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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If you want to make this argument, I'd say the US fired the first slavo when the CIA installed the Shah as leader of Iran.

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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eif
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by mrs.hi-c in the great white north:

After reading this, why would anyone (other then slime politicians) object to President Bush's electronic surveillance plan, or anything else he needs to do to keep us safe!

Because there is a legal way to do it and an illegal way and the idiot-in-chief pick the illegal way. The legal way provides judicial oversight which is a check and balance to the executive which is provided by the Constitution, which the idiot-in-chief swore an oath to uphold. Seems like he’s botching up that too.

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Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History.

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Rogue1stclass
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Okay, appearently this was a speech given Feb 19, 2003 to something called the Pensacola Civitan Club. Here is the actual text of the speech: http://www.ahherald.com/window_redbank/2003/wrb030306_think_about.htm

Personally, I think that WWIII was what we usually refer to as the Cold War and most of the issues we have in the Middle East are fallout from that.

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Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
If you believe in this please forward it to as many people as you can, especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action. If you don't believe it, just delete it and go back to sleep.
Which military action is this referring to? If it's Iraq...I'm wondering where in that list of things is the proof that Iraq was a threat to the US. Why would invading Iraq be a "necessary military action" based on this list?

ETA: And is three years after the start of the military action really considered "quick to protest"?

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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

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Michael Cole
Deck the Malls


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Actually, what gets me is how serving officers and soldiers in the US military are allowed to make speeches and comments on policy whilst wearing the uniform and using the priviledge(sp?) of their position. It really has me baffled as to why this is allowed to occur. Would it be as acceptable if Joe Bloggs from, say, the Agriculture Department came out and publically critisised his boss's policies? Would he still have a job?

Soldiers are not elected to their position, they are awarded it, and as such, they should have no right to use that position to make public comment on what is policy that should be decided by elected officials only. If they feel so strongly that they must comment, then they should either resign their position, or at the very least, take efforts to distance themselves from their position and make clear that they are speaking only as a citizen of the nation. And if they don't, they should be sacked.

Obviously I'm not from the US, but I would consider any such speeches by any serving member using his awarded position as a justification for his political opinion's validity, to be completely unacceptable, and a total contravention of the concept of Seperation of Powers. I am so supprised that you guys accept it so easily.

[I hope this makes sense - its early in the morning here...]

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Q. What's the difference between a Computer saleman and a Used Car Salesman?
A. The Used Car Salesman knows when he is lying.

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Squishy0405
Wii Wiish You A Merry Chriistmas


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quote:
Originally posted by mrs.hi-c in the great white north:
This is not very long, but very informative.

Somebody lied! I'll read this eventually or never...Kind of like the folders in my inbox...I put stuff there but never read it [lol]

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"Fate is like a strange, unpopular resturant, filled with odd waiters who bring you things you never ask for and don't always like."-Lemony Snicket

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James D
Deck the Malls


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Though not particularly fond of Hemmingway, I like one turn of phrase from him:
quote:
Never mistake motion for action
The main problem is that this isn't a typical sort of war. We are not fighting a war of peoples like we did in world wars one and two. Our enemy consists of a relativly small but highly dedicated group of zealous and violent individuals.

There is probably nothing the OBL and other terrorists would like more than for us to declare a new Jihad/Crusade. Our poorly run operations in Iraq (in which the generals are often overrulled by neo-con ideologues) has helped our enemies far more than bin laden's wildest dreams.

In the cold war, we justified our dealings with various petty dictators in the name of containing communism. We actively helped the Mujahdeen (the precusrsor to the Taliban) fight off the Russians. The colapse of the Soviet union convinced some of them that with faith and effort that they were powerful enough to topple superpowers.

After the '93 WTC bombing, we did take the threat very seriously. Because intellegence gathering and covert operations by their nature tend not to make the headlines, much of the anti-terrorism activities did not make front page news - or even news at all.

The perpetuators behind that attack rot in a supermax prison in Colorado.

As jeering as the author is of a 'few cruise missiles', you have to keep in mind that we are trying to kill the bad guys - not create widespread death and destruction that give the bad guys sympathy and ammunition to use against us in their recruiting methods. Clinton had be be quieter in his actions, in part, because many of the same people claiming he did nothing and showing a supposed 'get tough' attitude were at the time accusing him of 'wagging the dog' and insisting that there was no terrorist threat.

Due to good vigilance the millenium terrorist attacks were thwarted.

And after 9/11 we did take action again. We used the contingency plans that had been ordered by the previous administration to get the job done well. (as opposed to Iraq, where various ideologues overrulled the generals after the initial invasion to test out their pet political theories)

But Iraq was not part of the terror network in any sizable way. They were a petty, brutal, secualar dictatorship. In a realpolitic way, they were like many of the other brutal dictatorships which we have propped up or at least ignored over the years. Less fundementalist than their wahhabist neighbors in Saudi Arabia, more stable and secular than Pakistan (with it's many 'schools' teaching hatred and jihad), nor even with a history of hostility like Iran (with internal turmoil between the moderate reformers - and hardline clerics) and were making serious advancements until we drove the masses into the arms of the extremists our beligerant posturing)

In all of this, we have had a court specifically for approving secret wiretaps (the FISA court) ever since 1979. It grew out of a need to ballance the needs of the nation for security against the abuses of power that had occured in the Nixon administration. The FISA court has always been very generous in giving warrants - and the law was even expanded in 2001 to allow a tap then ask policy if the AG deemed it urgent. The problem is that they never bothered following up with notifying the court - either because they lacked cause and evidence (even after the tap), or because like Nixon they are using it for their own polical gain/revenge/abuses of power.

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The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the zero adjust on his bathroom scale.
Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - )

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James D
Deck the Malls


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For the conspiracy theorists out there (tinfoil hat optional), one of the things that PNAC (a group containing many senior members of the current administration) wanted was a "new pearl harbor" to enable the governmental and millitary changes they desired.

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The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the zero adjust on his bathroom scale.
Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - )

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Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by mrs.hi-c in the great white north:

Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

I knew within the first two sentences that this was going to devolve into Clinton bashing at some point. But I have to admit, I didn't imagine the author would stoop to attacking Clinton over things that happened while Reagan was president. During that time, after all, Clinton was governor of what Bush Sr. so memorably called "a small chicken-producing state on the Mississippi between Texas and Oklahoma." [Roll Eyes] Why and how was he accountable for international terrorism at that time?

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Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you
Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused
But just now it's enough to be walking with you
Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins

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eif
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Cole:
Actually, what gets me is how serving officers and soldiers in the US military are allowed to make speeches and comments on policy whilst wearing the uniform and using the priviledge(sp?) of their position.

Agreed and it is not allowed. But in this case from the link that was posted Rogue1stclass the person who gave the speech is not in the military.
I admit that the intro is a bit confusing. It is not clear if the speechgiver is reading the meantioned fax by the Navy Captain or not.

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Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History.

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mrs.hi-c clown fishies
Happy Holly Days


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Gosh..maybe I should have posted the disclaimer in my original post...I did not write anything below the asterisks!!!! Don't want any of that to be attributed to yours truly, of course [Smile]

And I agree, Squishy--Not very long, my ass!

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This song has no title...just words and a tune.

Instant Hi-C--Just add water...

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Senior
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by mrs.hi-c in the great white north:
The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

What exactly does Captain Ouimette* expect the government to have done, besides investigate the attack? The Yemeni government wasn't involved in the attack, so invading Yemen would not be appropriate. Despite rhetoric from the War on Terrorism™ promoters, the U.S. is not at war with anyone. War is something that happens between two (or more) states. Al Qaida is not a governmental body.

Having the 2nd Armored Division invade Yemen would have been counterproductive. Sending FBI investigators would be much more likely to get results.

*Any captain with the least hope of making admiral would never give a political speech like the OP.

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Ad astra per asparagus.

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eif
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Senior:

*Any captain with the least hope of making admiral would never give a political speech like the OP.

Apparently, he didn't think he had a chance either. I did a google search on the name and found on another UL site that he has since retired from the Navy.

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Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History.

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Rogue1stclass
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by eif:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Cole:
Actually, what gets me is how serving officers and soldiers in the US military are allowed to make speeches and comments on policy whilst wearing the uniform and using the priviledge(sp?) of their position.

Agreed and it is not allowed. But in this case from the link that was posted Rogue1stclass the person who gave the speech is not in the military.
I admit that the intro is a bit confusing. It is not clear if the speechgiver is reading the meantioned fax by the Navy Captain or not.

Actually, there was a captain of that name in the Navy, and the speech was given here in Pensacola. However, I can't find anything that says he was ever the XO of NAS Pensacola (the actual title being Executive Officer, Navy Aviation Schools Command, Naval Air Station, Pensacola) at all, much less during the time the speech was given. It is likely that he retired here, as many Navy personel do, and gave the speech as a civilian.

It is also important to note that he gave the speech in 2003 before the war in Iraq had started.

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eif
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Rogue1stclass:
Actually, there was a captain of that name in the Navy, and the speech was given here in Pensacola. However, I can't find anything that says he was ever the XO of NAS Pensacola (the actual title being Executive Officer, Navy Aviation Schools Command, Naval Air Station, Pensacola) at all, much less during the time the speech was given. It is likely that he retired here, as many Navy personel do, and gave the speech as a civilian.

It is also important to note that he gave the speech in 2003 before the war in Iraq had started. [/QB]

Rouge - try this link http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/a/america-wake-up.htm

I googled his name and that is one that came up.

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Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History.

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Corwin
I Am Curious Bluefin


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4000 dead over the course of 22 years? That's the lamest world war ever.

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Then lightning struck... Bad lightning.

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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What a pile of rubbish.

Just another "blame Clinton - hail Bush" (or should I say "Heil Bush") crap.

And besides, this "America Wake Up !"-rethoric strangely reminds me of a similar one, which said "Deutschland Erwache !"... same slogan, same call for law, order, security and unconditional support to the Leader.

Terrorists are criminals, regardless of the cause they act for.

Fighting criminals is the job of the police and the secret services.

A "war on terror" fought with bombers, missiles, aircraft carriers and main battle tanks is a total waste of life and money, and a programmed failure.

It makes as much sense as -let's say- bomb and invade Italy to get rid of the Mafia.

... just my 2 cents, of course.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Rogue1stClass said:
It is also important to note that he gave the speech in 2003 before the war in Iraq had started.

So he's probably happy that he got his way, then. America did wake up and attack somebody.
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bloodaxe
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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In any case the main reason for the terrorists attacking American targets is not that they consider themselves to be at war with non Muslims or because they envy America's freedoms, etc. but the US support for Israel which is deeply resented by most Arabs- even ones that aren't terrorists- it's seen as one sided, unquestioning support, without any sympathy for the Palestinians. I'm not supporting the terrorists actions as they are extremists even in the Arab world, but the above is their main justification for their actions- the US support for Israel, and that is why they have some sympathy even amongst otherwise moderate Muslims.
I would agree that Iraq in many ways was more moderate than some of the USA's allies- Saudi Arabia for example- Saddam was an evil dictator but unfortunately not in any way much different to most leaders in the Arab countries- utterly ruthless to opponents- but not really a reason for singling his country out rather than any other in the Middle East- there's plenty of bodies buried in unmarked graves in most countries there, sadly.

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DesertRat
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
, what gets me is how serving officers and soldiers in the US military are allowed to make speeches and comments on policy whilst wearing the uniform and using the priviledge(sp?) of their position.
They are absolutely NOT allowed to do so, though some occasionally forget that. When in uniform, we are obligated to remain strictly apolitical; even when out of uniform, we have a fairly narrow lane to stay in. Anything else is courting trouble with the UCMJ.

I've found that most of these politically preachy diatribes attributed to active duty personnel are usually incorrectly attributed.

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High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler

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Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by bloodaxe:
In any case the main reason for the terrorists attacking American targets is not that they consider themselves to be at war with non Muslims or because they envy America's freedoms, etc. but the US support for Israel....

And Sadam's monetary support of the families of suicide bombers was Bush' rationalization for calling Iraq a "terrorist" state.

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"The large print givith, and the small print taketh away" -- Tom Waits, Step Right Up

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad." -- Salvador Dali

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Biggles
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
"Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid"
Oh.. "the terrorism" didn't come to Europe via the IRA and dozen's of other terrorist groups in Europe in the 70's? Munich had a fabulous Olympics?

Does this guy think that until a US citizen dies, there was no terrorism in Europe? What we the writer have had the US do.. nuke Spain?

In any event, a quick search, makes me think he got his 'april 1985' facts wrong at least. Closest I can find is a September 85 bombing in Madrid killing a US citizen - but the bomb was aimed at Spanish guards by ETA (or are the Basque's also at war with the US?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1985

You will note that lots of other terrorist acts also occured - including the US backed contra's. [Confused]

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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This list is somewhat onesided.

During this time period, while USA has allegedly been the target of a well planned clandestine war (and, in my humble opinion, it's neither well planned, clandestine nor a war, or primarily targeted at USA for that matter), are we expected to believe that USA has behaved exemplary, with no clandestine operations skeletons in their closet?

Well, let's open the closet and see what we can find:

* More or less clandestine operations in Cambodia, supporting the infamous Pol Pot.
* More or less clandestine operations in Nicaragua, supporting and training the terror troops called Contras.
* More or less clandestine operations in El Salvador.
* More or less clandestine operations in Chile.
* More or less clandestine operations in Argentina.
* Support of both Papa Doc Duvalier and Baby Doc Duvalier in Haiti.
* Invasion of Grenada.
* Invasion of Panama.
* General interference with Cuba.
* Destabilizing the middle east by supporting the main cause of trouble, israel.
* Invasion of Afghanistan, because they had no legal way of getting a single man extradited. That man still remains at large, and Afghanistan is still under occupation.
* Attacking Iraq due to a border dispite that they had promised to stay out of. A massaker of mainly civilians using incendaries is especially noteworthy (Highway of Death).
* Imposing hard sanctions on Iraq in an ettempt to remove Saddam Hussein. They failed, but according to UN investigations, 1.5 million civilian died, a third of them children.
* During what's supposedly peace with Iraq, made an average of 1.5 bomb strikes a week for the entire ten year period, killing many. Also, repeatedly shot down civilian aircraft in an attempt to disrupt food production.
* Invading Iraq. We have yet to see any proof for any of the reasons supplied. Iraq is still under military occupation.
* Attacked targets in former Yugoslavia, without the support of the UN, as well as maintaining a ground presence.
* An air attack (a joint US/British operation) on the leader of Libya, without any declaration of war.
* Various more or less illegal attempts to manipulate nations in south or central america, or to overthrow their governments.

I'm sure I forgot some, so this link will list some more: http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:sxDHQEhDmqIJ:www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa02.html&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3

It would be just as easy to write a similarily onesided essay about these incidents, spice it up with some colorful alarm clock snooze metaphor and deliver the point that it's time for the terrorists to wake up.

Of course, that would not be right either.

The point is that it takes two to tango. If you run wild in a self interest motivated rampage thinly disguised as vigilante justice while singing "Team America - **** yeah!", there will come a response. If you escalate in response to that, so will the opponent. Overreacting does not make conflicts go away.

The solution is surprisingly simple. Stop treating it as a war. The terrorists are criminals, common murderers. So is the contras and the people who supplied and trained them. So is the people who order any military action without proper justification and legal support. Make sure these criminals, on both sides, are put to trial for their crimes. Then, perhaps, the honest and peaceful majority, on both sides, can be allowed to mind their own business and live in peace.

USA has not been a peaceful nation for the last century or so (I make that distinction purely on the basis that my knowledge of US history earlier that that is somewhat sketchy and I'm not prepared to say anything on it). In fact, USA has been involved on far more wars than any other nation during that time period, including (by a big margin) it's old arch nemesis USSR. You do not make friends that way. You may make some friends, but you also make a lot of enemies.

Don't act so lilywhite clean and perfect and go "We havn't done anything to deserve this!", because you have done a lot. If it's enough to deserve it may be a matter of opinion, but there is no doubt that there are many people and nations with a legitimate reason to dislike USA. If enough people dislike you, sooner or later, someone is bound to act.

Maybe a 500 pound gorilla can sleep wherever he goddamn pleases, but sooner or later one of the smaller monkeys will discover that if you sneak up on him while he sleeps, grabs him by the balls and squeeze as hard as you can, it doesn't matter how big he is, it will still hurt as hell.

--------------------
/Troberg

Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
   

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