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Author Topic: UK Daily Mail - NO Doctors: We had to kill our patients
evilbeard
We Three Blings


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We had to kill our patients
quote:
Her heart-rending account has been corroborated by a hospital orderly and by local government officials. One emergency official, William 'Forest' McQueen, said: "Those who had no chance of making it were given a lot of morphine and lain down in a dark place to die."

Euthanasia is illegal in Louisiana, and The Mail on Sunday is protecting the identities of the medical staff concerned to prevent them being made scapegoats for the events of last week.

I'm not entirely sure of the veracity, but i thought it needed airing.

Could one of the British Snopesters comment on the trustworthiness of stories from the Daily Mail?

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abigsmurf
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lol Daily Mail

It's a tabloid rag that distorts facts into near fiction. It's a right wing paper that has clear agenda's on every issue and the stuff it prints is heavily distorted so it's a close to lies as they can legally come.

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Atlanta Jake
Xboxing Day


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Well, I guess that calls the veracity of the article into question,doesn't it? [Wink]

(I mean no political discourse here, just a comment on the unambiguous post by abigsmurf)

Jake

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Oualawouzou
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Honestly, weither true or not, the article in the OP had me go "meh". Would it really be shocking? We have become good at maintaining people alive in relatively correct conditions thanks to potent drugs, high-tech machinery and other costly (in money, time, skill, technological prowess...) tools. Enter a situation such as Katrina, where healthcare cannot be provided to the same level as usual, and it's a given that many people who stay alive and relatively well purely thanks to medical science will deteriorate quickly, often in very unpleasant ways.

I must say though that I am unaware of how self-sufficient hospitals are in the US. I'd wager most should be able to live through one or two days without support from the outside world.

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Casey, making hot chocolate
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Doesn't surprise me.

In Triage, there are a number of colors given, based on how much care should be given to a particular patient.

BLACK- Dead, or death imminent. Provide comfort care if time/resources allow, but no medical aid.
RED- Seriously injured, but able to be saved with prompt care. High-level care, as best as possible.
YELLOW- Injured, but with an excellent chance of survival without treatment, or with minor treatment.
GREEN- The walking wounded. Bumps, breaks, sprains and strains. No treatment needed to ensure survival.

If you have someone on a respirator or something along those lines, they'd probably be immediately black-tagged. Can't survive without a respirator, which they don't have.

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Griffin at the Maul
Joyeux New Sale


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quote:
One emergency official, William 'Forest' McQueen, said: "Those who had no chance of making it were given a lot of morphine and lain down in a dark place to die."

Euthanasia is illegal in Louisiana, and The Mail on Sunday is protecting the identities of the medical staff concerned to prevent them being made scapegoats for the events of last week.

Thought that this was odd....they are "protecting the identities", one line after identifying someone...HUH?

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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I find it shocking if true, yes. That in a major city in the United States of America doctors had to murder (let's be blunt here) patients; that elderly nursing home residents drowned in their beds DAYS after the storm; that people died who need not have died because the response to this tragedy was inept is shocking. Shameful and shocking.

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GooglyEyes
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Disclaimer: SO was the one to actually watch and relate to me the following:

Apparently Oprah had her own New Orleans disaster show last week. She had a surgeon on, who was working in Louis Armstrong airport makeshift triage unit, explaining some of the medical dangers, common medical problems they had been seeing, etc. I guess this doctor got into how overwhelmed the triage/mash units were for space and told how people that were pronounced near death (100% certainty they would die) or beyond any hope of treatment would be moved into the make-shift morgues with already deceased bodies.

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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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It doesn't surprise me.

There are a lot of places in New Orleans that survived the storm, yet the horrors associated with them are so terrible that I wonder if the buildings will ever be used again: the Superdome, the convention center, Charity Hospital, the airport.

The death toll may not be as high as it was feared, but it is still far higher than it should have been.

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This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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Jenn
Layaway in a Manger


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I wasn't aware that making terminal patients comfortable with morphine until they die was the same thing as killing, murdering, or euthanizing the patient. Doctors and next-of-kin make that decision every day when they aren't in the midst of a disaster that has left them drastically overwhelmed and understaffed. The only thing in this story that strays from that standard operating procedure is moving the dying into morgues.

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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The first couple paragraphs, about doctors who "ignored every tenet of medical ethics" is not really consistent with the second half of the article ("There were patients with Do Not Resuscitate signs. Under normal circumstances, some could have lasted several days.").

If the sensational charges are true, the findings will be replicated in the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, etc.

One of the Daily Mail columnists, Melanie Phillips, is among my favorites. But why, of all the papers the anonymous doctor could have given her information to, would she choose that one?

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trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Steve, it's probably best not to say that a Daily Mail columist is one of your favourites somewhere where Brits can hear you. The paper is the epitome of the rabid right and frequently goes off on racist, homophobic, xenophobic and otherwise prejudiced rants. It was one of the leading lights in sperading anti-Semitism during the war, supported Moseley and his Blacksirts (one famous headline being "Hoorah For The Blackshirts"), and was founded by Lord Rothermere, a man who hosted a dinner party for Hitler and often spoke of his love and admiration for Mussolini. As recently as 1992, there was held a staff party at which at least 5 memebers of the senior management (by the Daily Mails Group's own admission) attended wearing full Nazi regalia. In 2001, the paper referred to MP Andrew Dismore as a "Holocaust bore" because he asked parlimentary questions which led to the establishment of Holocaust Memorial Day. Melanie Phillips herself has written anti-Islamic peices in the paper, and has spoken in favour of racial segregation, particularly in schools.

Please tell me that your moral standards are higher than that, Steve.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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Hell's Granny
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Active euthanasia in New Orleans: An urban legend in the making?

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Hell's Granny
Xboxing Day


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Git yer elicious crunchy double-posting waffles here!

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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
Steve, it's probably best not to say that a Daily Mail columist is one of your favourites somewhere where Brits can hear you. The paper is the epitome of the rabid right and frequently goes off on racist, homophobic, xenophobic and otherwise prejudiced rants. It was one of the leading lights in sperading anti-Semitism during the war, supported Moseley and his Blacksirts (one famous headline being "Hoorah For The Blackshirts"), and was founded by Lord Rothermere, a man who hosted a dinner party for Hitler and often spoke of his love and admiration for Mussolini.



I don't know if it's really that fair to judge a newspaper for its actions or headlines 70 years ago; before about 1935, you could probably find a leader in nearly every UK or US paper praising 'Mr Hitler's vanguard against Bolshevism' or words to that effect. People still buy Ford cars notwithstanding Henry Ford's rather distasteful opinons, people love the Volkswagen Beetle even though it was intrinsically symbolic of Nazi society.

However, this is not to defend the Daily Mail newspaper. It's a shocking rag, and is sadly indicative of Middle England's terror of change. It's all Asylum Seekers, Gypsies, Welfare Mums, European Commissioners are controlling our minds that sort of thing. And Paul Dacre, editor of the Daily Mail, seems to believe in the Bible Code, which is rather odd.

If a news article is in the Daily Mail, and nowhere else, then I tend not to believe it. Or would suspect it to be a distortion of the actualite. The Daily Mail don't, how do I put this, double check their information as much as they should. It's a rather common failing of theirs.

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Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Granny:
Active euthanasia in New Orleans: An urban legend in the making?

quote:
In addition, as The Well-Timed Period points out, if all the narcotics were in a state of "lockdown" because of fear of armed looters and drug addicts breaking into the hospital (as claimed in the story), then how did one doctor get so many doses of morphine to use without attracting a lot of attention from nurses and her colleagues?
I wondered about that as well. A fatal dose of morphine is quite a lot. You'd have to sign all kinds of forms for it, I would imagine.

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Red Squirrel
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Don’t forget that the Daily Mail is “the women’s tabloid” and much of its content is aimed at us. This is despite having numerous articles of the opinion “rape victims deserve all they get” and “working mums get back into the kitchen”.

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The Sqizzle formally known as Lexi

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Hell's Granny
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Red Squirrel:
Don’t forget that the Daily Mail is “the women’s tabloid” and much of its content is aimed at us. This is despite having numerous articles of the opinion “rape victims deserve all they get” and “working mums get back into the kitchen”.

...and "Lazy single mothers live off benefits instead of working..."

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Ghost on Toast
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
lol Daily Mail

It's a tabloid rag that distorts facts into near fiction. It's a right wing paper that has clear agenda's on every issue and the stuff it prints is heavily distorted so it's a close to lies as they can legally come.

This kind of sweeping generalisation from the standpoint of not much knowledge really annoys me. I think you've gone a bit far here.

The Daily Mail, as much as I detest it with a passion stronger than a thousand suns, is actually a reasonably decent newspaper. It does not print 'near lies' but it does put a spin on things as every newspaper in the frickin' world does. So does the Guardian, Torygraph etc etc

As for it being 'right wing', yes it is on the right but you make it sound like the BNP paper. In fact, I believe it was the DM which printed the names of the Stephen Lawerence alleged murderers saying they were guilty with the headline "Murderers - If we are wrong let them sue us".

They have had their moments in the past but so has every newspaper. Weren't Sun hacks screaming racial abuse out of the windows a few decades back when there was an anti-racism march?

Yes, it has a politics I disagree with but to call it a rag that prints near-lies is very wrong and inaccurate.

You have no idea how it pains me to defend it but I had to step in there. Yes, it is xenophobic, sexist etc but not to the degree Abi is making it out.


quote:
And Paul Dacre, editor of the Daily Mail, seems to believe in the Bible Code, which is rather odd.
I KNOW! That freaked me out too.

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Senior
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost on Toast:

The Daily Mail, as much as I detest it with a passion stronger than a thousand suns, is actually a reasonably decent newspaper. It does not print 'near lies' but it does put a spin on things as every newspaper in the frickin' world does. So does the Guardian, Torygraph etc etc

When I read the phrase "a thousand suns" I immediately thought of a thousand Page 3 Girls.

Sorry [fish]

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Ghost on Toast
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Oh well, it gets on my nerves when people say stuff about newspapers, often when they generalise every British paper as a lying rag. As an ex-hack, it gets on my nerves. Sure they all have agendas but they don't adhere to the old stereotypical images.

But don't even get me started on things like Nuts magazine!!!!

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abigsmurf
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost on Toast:
[QB] This kind of sweeping generalisation from the standpoint of not much knowledge really annoys me. I think you've gone a bit far here.

The Daily Mail, as much as I detest it with a passion stronger than a thousand suns, is actually a reasonably decent newspaper. It does not print 'near lies' but it does put a spin on things as every newspaper in the frickin' world does. So does the Guardian, Torygraph etc etc

As for it being 'right wing', yes it is on the right but you make it sound like the BNP paper. In fact, I believe it was the DM which printed the names of the Stephen Lawerence alleged murderers saying they were guilty with the headline "Murderers - If we are wrong let them sue us".

They have had their moments in the past but so has every newspaper. Weren't Sun hacks screaming racial abuse out of the windows a few decades back when there was an anti-racism march?

Yes, it has a politics I disagree with but to call it a rag that prints near-lies is very wrong and inaccurate.

You have no idea how it pains me to defend it but I had to step in there. Yes, it is xenophobic, sexist etc but not to the degree Abi is making it out.

The Daily Mail's constant attack on assylum seekers is pretty comparable to the BNP's view on them.

That headline you gave highlights what is wrong with the Daily Mail. It's not so much as reporting the news as telling people what to think. Of course the people in question wouldn't sue. A: they couldn't afford to, B: would they really want their photos plastered on the front page linked to the murder with the headline "SCUM ACCUSED OF MURDERING SL COST TAX PAYER £100,000" (they have done this countless times when sued), regardless of if they were found innocent, their life would be hell.

It's irresponsible newsreporting that declares people guilty before they've been tried and leads to peadeatricians getting targetted by newspaper supported lynch mobs before their job was confused with them being pedophiles.

I don't mind a slight slant in articles but when an entire newspaper consists of a web of attacks and invested interests as opposed to reporting the facts it just makes me angry

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
Steve, it's probably best not to say that a Daily Mail columist is one of your favourites somewhere where Brits can hear you.



If my aim was to win a snopes popularity contest, this would be correct. Since that is not my aim: I don't think the Daily Mail is a good newspaper, but their writers deserve to be judged as individuals, not condemned through guilt by association.

quote:
It was one of the leading lights in sperading anti-Semitism during the war, supported Moseley and his Blacksirts (one famous headline being "Hoorah For The Blackshirts"), and was founded by Lord Rothermere, a man who hosted a dinner party for Hitler and often spoke of his love and admiration for Mussolini.


Two possibilities here, both unfortunate:

1. You really do believe in visiting the crimes of the parents on the children.

2. You think I believe in visiting the crimes of the parents on the children, and thus would buy an argument along those lines. I do not.

quote:
As recently as 1992, there was held a staff party at which at least 5 memebers of the senior management (by the Daily Mails Group's own admission) attended wearing full Nazi regalia.


While in bad taste, this dressing up in costume was not indicative of a desire to bring back the Third Reich.

quote:
In 2001, the paper referred to MP Andrew Dismore as a "Holocaust bore" because he asked parlimentary questions which led to the establishment of Holocaust Memorial Day.


My relatives who died in the holocaust did not die a second death from the Holocaust Memorial Day controversy. If you showed that the Daily Mail favors a resumption of the holocaust (and the only plausible way I can see this happenning is Israeli capitulation), that, I admit, would shake me.

quote:
Melanie Phillips herself has written anti-Islamic peices in the paper, and has spoken in favour of racial segregation, particularly in schools.

Please tell me that your moral standards are higher than that, Steve.

No, I can't, because my views are close to those of Ms. Phillips on multiple issues.

Most people on this board are unfamiliar with Melanie Phillips. If you are going to try tearing her down with charges of having low moral standards, being pro-segregation, etc., it would be more fair to link to the articles that lead you to these conclusions.

If you have a link, I would be interested in comparing Ms. Phillip's alleged anti-Moslem articles with some of the anti-Christian posts I have seen here.

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Julius Lester

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Ghost on Toast
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
The Daily Mail's constant attack on assylum seekers is pretty comparable to the BNP's view on them.
Well, that's going a bit far. The Daily Mail doesn't advocate sending them all back even if they are in danger. I think comparing the DM to the BNP is going way too far. I happen to strongly disagree with a lot of what they wrote to the point where I will not have it in my house anymore but credit where credit is due and I don't think they deserve to be compared to the BNP

quote:
That headline you gave highlights what is wrong with the Daily Mail. It's not so much as reporting the news as telling people what to think. Of course the people in question wouldn't sue. A: they couldn't afford to, B: would they really want their photos plastered on the front page linked to the murder with the headline "SCUM ACCUSED OF MURDERING SL COST TAX PAYER £100,000" (they have done this countless times when sued), regardless of if they were found innocent, their life would be hell
But the Daily Mail merely printed on their front page what every other newspaper in the country was saying in so many words. I personally think it was a brave move, and a move deisgned to show support to the Lawrence family. If those guys were innocent they could have sued (you'll always find in cases like this that they find the money from somewhere or someone) and I really don't think being put in the papers again would stop someone if they really felt aggrieved, do you?

If someone accused you of murder you'd fight to get it put right but oyu wouldn't stop just because you'd been in the paper would you?


quote:
It's irresponsible newsreporting that declares people guilty before they've been tried and leads to peadeatricians getting targetted by newspaper supported lynch mobs before their job was confused with them being pedophiles.
Well in fairness everyone in the country called them guilty before the DM so it wasn't just them. Also it was other papers like the NotW who were pushing the Paedo thing - remember them printing the names and addresses of convicted offenders?

Plus, the journalists can't really be blamed if people are really that stupid can they?

As I've said, I hate the DM but I don't think it deserves all that flack and certainly not comparison the BNP

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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost on Toast But the Daily Mail merely printed on their front page what every other newspaper in the country was saying in so many words. I personally think it was a brave move, and a move designed to show support to the Lawrence family. If those guys were innocent they could have sued (you'll always find in cases like this that they find the money from somewhere or someone) and I really don't think being put in the papers again would stop someone if they really felt aggrieved, do you?
While not wanting to comment on this specific issue, I think it is generally a bad idea for the media to identify someone who has not been committed of a crime as guilty of that crime. It is also perhaps pertinent to note that this newspaper headline pretty much guaranteed that the five accused of the murder of Steven Lawrence will never ever be able to stand trial in this country.

As a general rule, I think irreponsible journalism is irresponsible journalism, regardless of whether the people affected are scumbags or not.

And didn't the Daily Mail originally report the Steven Lawrence murder as a gangland slaying, rather than a racist attack?

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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aranea russus
The First USA Noel


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According to this site , there is no hospital in Abita Springs.

quote:
Hospitals/medical centers near Abita Springs:

* LAKEVIEW REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER (about 5 miles; COVINGTON, LA)
* PREMIER PHYSICAL REHABILITATION HOSPIT (about 5 miles; COVINGTON, LA)
* ST TAMMANY PARISH HOSPITAL (about 5 miles; COVINGTON, LA)

And this BBC News Article describes a woman searching for a william forest mcqueen in arbita springs, but his job description is very different

quote:

Mother-of-two Suzanne McQueen, of Maidstone, Kent, is waiting for news of her American husband (William) Forest McQueen.

He has been working in his home country since 1997, and lives and works with his brother in the Abita Springs area, north of Lake Pontchartrain, which is north of New Orleans.

The couple married in the UK in 1991, and Suzanne said she and her daughters - aged 11 and 13 - were planning to move to the US to join her husband as soon as was possible.

Mr McQueen's wife has had no news from his friends and family
Part of his job there is to maintain the grounds of an old plantation house, she said.

"I phoned the morning the hurricane hit, and his brother said Forest hadn't been home for the last 24 hours because he'd been on shift clearing up trees and lines from all the wind damage that came before the hurricane. I haven't heard anything since.

"I've been going through a list of phone numbers for friends and family in the area and can't get through to anyone.

"Up until yesterday or the day before I thought everything would be okay and that they hadn't been in touch because the power was down. But I've since seen more information about the amount of wind destruction there.

"I am getting very concerned. I am trying to contact people from work so the girls don't know how worried I am."

Coincidence?

(edit for clarity)

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Simon Says
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Jenn:
I wasn't aware that making terminal patients comfortable with morphine until they die was the same thing as killing, murdering, or euthanizing the patient. Doctors and next-of-kin make that decision every day when they aren't in the midst of a disaster that has left them drastically overwhelmed and understaffed. The only thing in this story that strays from that standard operating procedure is moving the dying into morgues.

Making terminally ill patients comfortable with morphine is not uncommon, however, this thread (or the article in the OP anyway) is alleging that patients were given a lethal dose of morphine. Hospice and palliative care centers use comfort care on their patients every day, but they do NOT do anything that would hasten the dying process. I would guess these allegations are being made because someone saw or heard about palliative care being administered and mistook that for a mercy killing. There is a difference.
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Ghost on Toast
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Hmm, yes, I suppose so and they definitely stopped any trial going ahad.

All that aside it does distress me to see what people think of British newspapers, presuming that they just print lies - thats what libel laws are for!

But back to the OP, are there any medical Snopesters on here because I have had a conversation with a doctor before who basically said that sometimes patients who are dying and in pain are given a little higher dosage to help them on their way.

Now I don't know if he meant extra morphine to actually kill them but that s what it sounded like and the way he was talking was as if it was standard practice. I'm not sure what to think.

--------------------
It's been a while but I'm back!!

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trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
If my aim was to win a snopes popularity contest, this would be correct.

The point is not popularity, but being seen as an intelligent, reasonable and informed poster, as opposed to one who cares more about their sources of information reflecting and reenforcing their viewpoint than they do about them being accurate.

quote:
Since that is not my aim: I don't think the Daily Mail is a good newspaper, but their writers deserve to be judged as individuals, not condemned through guilt by association.
While what you say has some merit, you choose who you write for. By nailing her flag to that mast, Ms. Phillips has said that she endorses the paper and its viewpoints.

quote:
Two possibilities here, both unfortunate:

1. You really do believe in visiting the crimes of the parents on the children.

2. You think I believe in visiting the crimes of the parents on the children, and thus would buy an argument along those lines. I do not.

Historical context. The point being that the editorial stance from that era hasn't changed all that much in the intervening years. It's important in understanding its stance now to look at where it came from and how it got to where it is today.

quote:
While in bad taste, this dressing up in costume was not indicative of a desire to bring back the Third Reich.
I didn't say that it was, but it is indicative of where their mindset is at.

quote:
My relatives who died in the holocaust did not die a second death from the Holocaust Memorial Day controversy. If you showed that the Daily Mail favors a resumption of the holocaust (and the only plausible way I can see this happenning is Israeli capitulation), that, I admit, would shake me.
I forgot to add that they opposed and ridiculed him for his work to get victims and victims' families restitution, too.

quote:
[qb]Melanie Phillips herself has written anti-Islamic peices in the paper, and has spoken in favour of racial segregation, particularly in schools.

[quote]If you are going to try tearing her down with charges of having low moral standards, being pro-segregation, etc., it would be more fair to link to the articles that lead you to these conclusions.

Well, here's one where she manages to pooh-pooh the idea of Islam as a peaceful religion (and insinuating that it is to blame for terrorism) and lament the idea of "multiculturalism", particularly at a school level.

quote:
Item after item on radio and television has dwelt upon the need to avoid blaming Muslims for what happened, rather than addressing the hard questions to the community that cry out to be asked.

In doing so, it has been taking its cue from the Muslim community itself which seems to be in the deepest denial. Yes, it has certainly condemned the atrocity in the strongest terms. But in the very next breath, its leaders have effectively washed their hands of it by repeating like a mantra that anyone claiming to be a Muslim who commits such an act is not a proper Muslim, because Islam is a religion of peace.

[...]

This moral inversion is the result of the cultural brainwashing that has been going on in Britain for years in the pursuit of the disastrous doctrine of multiculturalism. This has refused to teach Muslims — along with other minorities — the core of British culture and values. Instead, it has promoted a lethally divisive culture of separateness, in which minority cultures are held to be equal if not superior to the values and traditions of the indigenous majority.

[...]

When Ray Honeyford, the Bradford headmaster, warned strongly against multiculturalism in the schools in the eighties, he was branded a racist and hounded from his job. Now those Yorkshire chickens have lethally come home to roost.

There you go, the reason London was bombed was that minorities were allowed to intigrate into British culture, without having our superior values stamped on to them. I might just have to stand up and start singing the national anthem.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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Birtha
A Boy Named Subaru


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quote:
Originally posted by aranea russus:
According to this site , there is no hospital in Abita Springs.

quote:
Hospitals/medical centers near Abita Springs:

* LAKEVIEW REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER (about 5 miles; COVINGTON, LA)
* PREMIER PHYSICAL REHABILITATION HOSPIT (about 5 miles; COVINGTON, LA)
* ST TAMMANY PARISH HOSPITAL (about 5 miles; COVINGTON, LA)

And this BBC News Article describes a woman searching for a william forest mcqueen in arbita springs, but his job description is very different

quote:

Mother-of-two Suzanne McQueen, of Maidstone, Kent, is waiting for news of her American husband (William) Forest McQueen.

He has been working in his home country since 1997, and lives and works with his brother in the Abita Springs area, north of Lake Pontchartrain, which is north of New Orleans.

The couple married in the UK in 1991, and Suzanne said she and her daughters - aged 11 and 13 - were planning to move to the US to join her husband as soon as was possible.

Mr McQueen's wife has had no news from his friends and family
Part of his job there is to maintain the grounds of an old plantation house, she said.

"I phoned the morning the hurricane hit, and his brother said Forest hadn't been home for the last 24 hours because he'd been on shift clearing up trees and lines from all the wind damage that came before the hurricane. I haven't heard anything since.

"I've been going through a list of phone numbers for friends and family in the area and can't get through to anyone.

"Up until yesterday or the day before I thought everything would be okay and that they hadn't been in touch because the power was down. But I've since seen more information about the amount of wind destruction there.

"I am getting very concerned. I am trying to contact people from work so the girls don't know how worried I am."

Coincidence?

(edit for clarity)

Is what coincidence?????
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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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I saw that article as well and wondered if someone had gotten the name from it. Although I can't begin to imagine why they would do that. It does seem like it's an unusual enough name (William Forrest MacQueen) that if the original story were true it would not be difficult to find mention of him somewhere.

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Simon Says
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost on Toast:
But back to the OP, are there any medical Snopesters on here because I have had a conversation with a doctor before who basically said that sometimes patients who are dying and in pain are given a little higher dosage to help them on their way.

Now I don't know if he meant extra morphine to actually kill them but that s what it sounded like and the way he was talking was as if it was standard practice. I'm not sure what to think.

I do not have a medical degree, but I work for a hospice in the administrative office. So, I would consider myself a medical snopester. [Smile]

I can tell you positively that what the doctor said (if, like you said, he was talking about administering a lethal dose) is not considered ethical (or common) in the medical community. That is considered passive euthanasia. Now... that being said... it is common for people in the end stages of a disease to require higher than normal doses of pain medication. They are going through more pain and so can tolerate higher dosages.

A recent study by the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization (NHPCO) shows that hospice patients, on average, live longer than those with the same diagnosis who do not elect hospice care. (A link to the study is in this blog.)

Now, if by "help them along" he meant "make them comfortable until they die naturally" then yes. But if he meant that he keeps his patients gorked out on morphine until they are dead, that is unethical, and hopefully, not any more common in his medical community than it is in mine.

Sometimes doctors talk out of their asses too when they don't know what they are talking about. [Roll Eyes] And, unfortunately, not all doctors know that much about hospice. I would guess the doctor that made that comment does not make many referrals to hospice, that he instead just handles his patients until the end. That's a shame.

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
I forgot to add that they opposed and ridiculed him for his work to get victims and victims' families restitution, too.



Suppose a family was given a home by the East German government in 1950. Then for 40 years that family improved the house (or part of a house), keeping it in sterling condition despite great difficulty in obtaining building supplies? Is it right for the rich grandchildren of those who owned the house until 1935 to take it from those with such sweat equity? This is a legitimate moral issue that has been debated in Jewish publications, albeit with some trepidation due to the risk that true Jew-haters would seize upon the arguments for their purposes.

Rather than asking what the Daily Mail position in on symbolically opposing mass killings of the past, I would look at what their position has been more recently on the likes Pol Pot, Saddam, Rwanda, and the Khartoum regime, as well as how they view those who have tried unsuccessfully to push the Jews of Palestine into the sea. Now, maybe I would find that they are wrong side of some of these horrors, as I do not follow their editorial stance. However, these are the questions to ask, not whether they find humorous what I don't, or whether they support taking away the property of Germans who were mostly too young to have anything to do with the holocaust.

quote:
There you go, the reason London was bombed was that minorities were allowed to intigrate into British culture, without having our superior values stamped on to them.
Well, there were some things in Phillips' article, in regard to limiting freedom of speech, to which I would take great exception to if proposed for the US. However, I agree that think there are superior British values that should be insisted upon in schools. Coming from which realize is a tremendously flag-waving country, it is admittedly easy for me to say that.

--------------------
"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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Archie2K
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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The reason that I can't stomach the Daily Mail but am OK with the Torygraph or Grauniad is that the latter two at least don't report the news in an intentionally misleading way. It is tremendously biased certainly, but not misleading. There is a fine line. Examples from the mail;

£20,000 FOR POLICE OFFICER SPLASHED BY A PUDDLE
Real story: The total cost in wages and court fees for a frivilous trial involving a police officer splashed by a puddle was around £20,000.

LORD DIRT: LORD BIRT HAS BECOME A SHAREHOLDER IN A COMPANY THAT HELPS PAEDOPHILE WEBSITES
Real story: Lord Birt had bought a stake in PayPal

Then there is the fact that EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING is Blair's or Labour's fault.

However, my own qualms aside, this doesn't detract from the fact that the Daily Mail has to abide by the laws of libel too and so stories must have at least some basis of fact to them.

--------------------
Vox populi vox canem

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trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
Suppose a family was given a home by the East German government in 1950. Then for 40 years that family improved the house (or part of a house), keeping it in sterling condition despite great difficulty in obtaining building supplies?

What has that got to do with it? We're talking about financial restitution.

quote:
Rather than asking what the Daily Mail position in on symbolically opposing mass killings of the past, I would look at what their position has been more recently on the likes Pol Pot[...]
I'm not going to speak to the others, but I can definately say that Pol Pot wasn't on their good books - he was a follower of Marx, apparently, and therefore, like all Marxists, evil. This was in the same article where they mentioned that Labour contained Marxists, I believe.

Saddam, I believe, they hate now. But they loved him in the 80s. Essentially, they'll tow the extremist right-wing line. Which is why anyone who says that they have an affinity for the Daily Mail will be assumed to be a right-wing extremist.

quote:
Well, there were some things in Phillips' article, in regard to limiting freedom of speech, to which I would take great exception to if proposed for the US. However, I agree that think there are superior British values that should be insisted upon in schools.
She calls multiculturalism "brainwashing". She says that the "core" of British culture is superior to that of minorities, and bemoans the fact that the brainwashing of multiculturalism has lead to the culture of minorities being seen as equal to British culture. And she directly blames the London bombings on multiculturalism.

How can you not see that there's quite an element of xenophobia there? Of racism? Of religious intolerance?

--------------------
seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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