Drawing blood from students for use in science class lessons is rare these days, at least in part because exposure to the blood of others is considered dangerous.
On Tuesday, Salina School District officials announced the suspension of a first-year science teacher at Salina South High School, after learning she had used the same lancet to get blood from nearly two dozen students in two different classes Monday.
-------------------- "You're the opposite of troll. It's a compliment!" Posts: 12086 | From: Alberta | Registered: Feb 2000
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While it is a silly risk to use lancets on multiple students, I think that there are some overly-wrought statements on the danger of using blood in classrooms.
To wit:
quote:"Science teachers, supervisors and their employers need to secure safe alternatives to laboratory activities such as human blood typing, cheek cell sampling and urinalysis. The risk of unknown exposure is too high!"
The risk of unknown exposure is too high (!) from cheek cell sampling? Really?
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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What in the name of DOYC was the teacher hoping to demonstrate by using fresh human blood?
Surely animal blood could have been used for the experiment. If it required human blood, couldn't this have been procured much more easily from a blood bank?
As a last resort, as there is little that is taught in schools that is not already well known, just an explanation, and a peek at a textbook would have sufficed.
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quote:Originally posted by Eddylizard: What in the name of DOYC was the teacher hoping to demonstrate by using fresh human blood?
When I was in high school our textbooks had lab instructions for determining your own blood type as part of the unit on genetic traits. We didn't actually do the lab, though the teacher said they used to back in the pre-HIV days.
-------------------- "You're the opposite of troll. It's a compliment!" Posts: 12086 | From: Alberta | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Eddylizard: Surely animal blood could have been used for the experiment. If it required human blood, couldn't this have been procured much more easily from a blood bank?
A blood bank probably wouldn't give out blood for highschool lab experiments, they'd want to keep it all for accidents, etc, I'd think.
At my highschool we used something like this. It comes with fake blood and you can still test for the different blood types, just like with real blood. The kit comes with a story where two babies have maybe been switched at the hospital and you have to test everyone's blood to find out which baby belongs to which set of parents.
Posts: 149 | From: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2006
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We did the "poke your finger" test a couple years ago for the blood-typing and blood detection part of a forensics course lab section. It came as a kit for the lab, with more than enough individual testing cards and lancets for everyone.
You would think it would be easier to obtain blood from a blood bank or use animal blood, but it isn't. Blood banks can't just donate human blood, and animal blood has different proteins and so it doesn't work in human blood type tests. Science supply stores do sell artificial blood substitutes, but we've tried those - they tend to be runny and unreliable when it comes to clotting tests, and some of the blood detection processes do not work on them.
While I worked for the department, I looked into replacing the lab kit (about $50 per lab section) with one that used artificial blood. It would have driven the cost way up and created a lot of problems for the students in the labs.
What we do is just hand out the kits and lancets. If a student has a problem poking themselves, they don't have to - they can just observe the results from one of the other students' test cards and make their own conclusions from those results. It also helps we draw a lot of nursing students - there are always volunteers to stab people who can't bring themselves to prick their own fingers, weirdly enough (after scrubbing up and gloving, of course).
That said, a college course is a completely different environment from a high school biology class.
-------------------- This has been yet another... USELESS POST. Posts: 6105 | From: Mississippi | Registered: Sep 2001
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I recall doing a test-your-own-blood-type lab in high school science back in 1979 or 1980. We each had our own separate thing to prick our skin with, though I can't recall exactly what it was.
I have a hard time with a college grad being ignorant enough to use the same lancet on 50+ students. Even without the threat of aids and other blood borne diseases, simple common sense cleanliness would dictate separate lancets.
Posts: 193 | From: Seymour, Indiana | Registered: Oct 2005
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Back in middle school (7th grade) when we still wrote on clay tablets... er, I mean back in about 1984 we did a blood typing lab with lancets and the whole bit. Even back then we used seperate, sterile packaged lancets, and I sure as hell personally wouldn't let my lab partner thwack my finger. (We each did our own.) I can't imagine anyone in this day and age doing something that bloody (no pun intended) irresponsible, I'm frankly amazed they allowed any kind of human blood experiments at all. This person graduated from college? With a Masters or some other type of degree required for teaching?! The mind boggles.
-------------------- "There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein Posts: 1058 | From: Yakima, WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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It would also be surprising to me if none of the students refused or at least spoke up. They started drilling the dangers of sharing items that could transmit blood borne diseases into us when I was in grade 5. It would surprise me if high school students in North America in this day and age would go into this kind of exercise in class without questioning it. Of course, I can't discount the possibility that the teacher was using some sort of disinfectant on the lancet that the students believed was sufficient.
-------------------- "You're the opposite of troll. It's a compliment!" Posts: 12086 | From: Alberta | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Spamamander cyclone: I'm frankly amazed they allowed any kind of human blood experiments at all.
Why? Blood properly handled (unlike in this case) poses no measurable threat.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Spamamander cyclone: I'm frankly amazed they allowed any kind of human blood experiments at all.
Why? Blood properly handled (unlike in this case) poses no measurable threat.
While that's true, I know that at the university where I was an undergraduate, doing research with human blood (or other human tissues) required safety training beyond the basic course all the biochemists had to take. I think that that's the case at my current university too. Thus I too would be surprised if high school students were officially allowed to work with human blood.
-------------------- Fools! You've over-estimated me! Posts: 3745 | From: New York City | Registered: Jan 2004
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In my 10th grade biology class, we had individual kits with lancets, and had to prick our own fingers. I don't recall really having the option of not doing it... in fact, I didn't want to prick myself, so my teacher came over and told me to quit whining and pricked my finger himself. Hmm... come to think of it, that probably wasn't appropriate.
quote:Back in middle school (7th grade) when we still wrote on clay tablets... er, I mean back in about 1984 we did a blood typing lab with lancets and the whole bit. Even back then we used seperate, sterile packaged lancets, and I sure as hell personally wouldn't let my lab partner thwack my finger. (We each did our own.)
Same here. I pinched my finger so that the end bulged a bit and hacked at it. No blood, so I did it again. Same result. Again and again and again. No blood. Then I stopped pinching it and there was suddenly blood all over the place...
-------------------- /Troberg Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Spamamander cyclone: I'm frankly amazed they allowed any kind of human blood experiments at all.
Why? Blood properly handled (unlike in this case) poses no measurable threat.
I know that, and you know that, but sadly because of hysteria much of the general public does NOT know that, so I was referring to my surprise that a school district would be willing to bear the "slings and arrows" from overprotective parents. We still live in a society that thinks you can get HIV from a toilet seat...
-------------------- "There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein Posts: 1058 | From: Yakima, WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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We did the blood-typing thing in 9th grade (freshman) biology, which would have been in 1976 or 1977. Separate, sterilized lancets. I believe the teacher poked my finger; whoever did it, I jerked and the lancet ripped my finger, contributing a bit more blood than we really needed.
Honestly, I think I would have objected to sharing a lancet even back then, just out of a general sense of it being unsanitary.
-------------------- How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005
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We did this in 1984, in Grade 9 science. Not only did we use a unique sterile lancet for each person, we also used a bunsen burner to sterilize each one - just in case. Sadly we ran out of chemicals before they got to everyone in the class, so I only found out that I have Rh+.
-------------------- "The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Spamamander cyclone: I'm frankly amazed they allowed any kind of human blood experiments at all.
Why? Blood properly handled (unlike in this case) poses no measurable threat.
I know that, and you know that, but sadly because of hysteria much of the general public does NOT know that, so I was referring to my surprise that a school district would be willing to bear the "slings and arrows" from overprotective parents. We still live in a society that thinks you can get HIV from a toilet seat...
Ah, excellent point. I pray for the day when we can teach our children in an atmosphere of knowledge as opposed to hysteria/testeria.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by AnglRdr: I pray for the day when we can teach our children in an atmosphere of knowledge as opposed to hysteria/testeria.
But if we do that, the terrorists will have won!
What are you, some sort of commie?!?
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Eddylizard: What in the name of DOYC was the teacher hoping to demonstrate by using fresh human blood?
Surely animal blood could have been used for the experiment. If it required human blood, couldn't this have been procured much more easily from a blood bank?
As a last resort, as there is little that is taught in schools that is not already well known, just an explanation, and a peek at a textbook would have sufficed.
I know of at least one school over here which will use blood samples from pupils for experiments (Shrewsbury) in biology lessons. Although that is a private school, and obviously they do take sensible steps to ensure it is perfectly safe.
Pupils like familiar examples, and what is the best way to to that than actually how it affects them.
Posts: 121 | From: Berkshire, UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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I agree - the concepts of agglutination and different blood types possessing different antibodies were really hard for some of my classmates to grasp just looking at a chart in a book. Once we did the experiment, a lot of them had visible "DUH!" moments. We also went further than just typing, doing several blood detection tests. It's a lot easier to remember the differences between phenolphthalein, leucomalachite, Takayama, and luminol testing once you've seen each one demonstrated and understand what a positive result looks like.
-------------------- This has been yet another... USELESS POST. Posts: 6105 | From: Mississippi | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Originally posted by AnglRdr: The risk of unknown exposure is too high (!) from cheek cell sampling? Really?
It depends how you take the samples. In high school, I got mononucleosis from sampling my girlfriend's cheeks cells with my tongue. Posts: 4922 | From: Kyoto, Japan | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by AnglRdr: The risk of unknown exposure is too high (!) from cheek cell sampling? Really?
It depends how you take the samples. In high school, I got mononucleosis from sampling my girlfriend's cheeks cells with my tongue.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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