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Author Topic: Ha ha! Charade you are!
dyfsunctional
I Saw Three Shipments


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This phrase appeared famously in the Pink Floyd song "Pigs (Three Different Ones)," and less famously in an episode of South Park. It apparently means something along the lines of "I've got the upper hand on you" or "I've figured out your little game." Does anyone know the background behind this phrase? I get the feeling that in the Floyd song it's a literary reference, but Googling just brings up pages and pages of Pink Floyd stuff. How far back does it go? And what exactly does it mean?
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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I thought it just meant "You are a charade!", in other words, you're just bluffing and really you're a poor excuse for a human being. One of the definitions of charade in Collins is "a travesty", which fits pretty well. It's awkward phrasing but I assumed that was just to make it scan and rhyme. If there's a literary reference I don't know about it.

The "travesty" definition is apparently "chiefly British", so maybe it sounds more mysterious to US listeners?

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I always kind of turned it into a Yodaism.

Haha. Charade you are.

As in,

Haha, you are a fake and not worthy of my respect, my time, nor my serious consideration.

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TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Great. Now I have to pull out my Animals tape to get this song out of my head...

Trish "If you think that's weird, what about that whole 'He converteth me into lambchops' robot voice thing from that album?" DaDish

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dyfsunctional
I Saw Three Shipments


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Psalm 23 (robotic sheep version):

The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want. He makes me down to lie.
Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by.
With bright knives He releaseth my soul.
He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places.
He converteth me to lamb cutlets.
For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger.
When cometh the day we lowly ones,
Through quiet reflection and great dedication,
Master the art of karate,
Lo, we shall rise up,
And then we'll make the buggers' eyes water.

Ok, back on topic: so, the phrase is common enough that it doesn't have a specific origin? And why is it always pronounced with the French/British "sha-rod" and not the American "sha-raid?"

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by dyfsunctional:
Ok, back on topic: so, the phrase is common enough that it doesn't have a specific origin? And why is it always pronounced with the French/British "sha-rod" and not the American "sha-raid?"

Er - because Pink Floyd are British?

I don't think it's a "common phrase" exactly (assuming you mean the line "Charade you are" rather than just the word "Charade"). I still don't see why it needs an origin beyond being a line from the song, though...

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dyfsunctional
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
quote:
Originally posted by dyfsunctional:
Ok, back on topic: so, the phrase is common enough that it doesn't have a specific origin? And why is it always pronounced with the French/British "sha-rod" and not the American "sha-raid?"

Er - because Pink Floyd are British?

I don't think it's a "common phrase" exactly (assuming you mean the line "Charade you are" rather than just the word "Charade"). I still don't see why it needs an origin beyond being a line from the song, though...

The members of Pink Floyd are British...but Eric Cartman isn't. Anyway, that's the question: did Pink Floyd coin the phrase?
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snoozn
Deck the Malls


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Which South Park episode was this in? SP makes lots of pop culture references, so I would think they were just referencing the Pink Floyd song, rather than using a little known phrase. You could go to South Park's website and ask. They have a FAQ where they answer all kinds of questions like this.

snoozn

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snarkbait
The Red and the Green Stamps


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On a slight hijack-y note, I have always considered Animals Pink Floyd's best album.
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dyfsunctional
I Saw Three Shipments


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It's the one where Eric buys (NFBSK warning!) a bunch of pubic hair from the older kid up the street. Realizing he's been had, Eric repeatedly tries to trick the older kid into giving him his money back, and triumphantly uses the phrase each time he thinks he's got the upper hand.
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Hans Off
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by dyfsunctional:
quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
quote:
Originally posted by dyfsunctional:
Ok, back on topic: so, the phrase is common enough that it doesn't have a specific origin? And why is it always pronounced with the French/British "sha-rod" and not the American "sha-raid?"

Er - because Pink Floyd are British?

I don't think it's a "common phrase" exactly (assuming you mean the line "Charade you are" rather than just the word "Charade"). I still don't see why it needs an origin beyond being a line from the song, though...

The members of Pink Floyd are British...but Eric Cartman isn't....
And the British don't tend to maul other peoples languages quite as badly as the Americans, the british pronounce it "Sharard" beacause that is how the French pronounce their own word.

Van Go paintings anyone?

(that'll start a fight!)

Big man pig ma haaaan...
Quality album!

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"British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything." Llewtrah


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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by dyfsunctional:
The members of Pink Floyd are British...but Eric Cartman isn't. Anyway, that's the question: did Pink Floyd coin the phrase?

I see why you're asking, I guess - it does seem a bit odd that Cartman would start randomly quoting a less-well-known (than some) Pink Floyd song, so there's a possibility that both he and Pink Floyd are actually quoting something else. But no, I think they came up with the line.

(edit) Hans, if Van Gogh had been Scottish we'd pronounce him "Van Gock" just to annoy JK Will!

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Frenchy
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Van Go paintings anyone?

(that'll start a fight!)

Van (r)o(r) why would that start a fight?
In English, it's pronounced: Van Go(f) or something similar. In French Van Go(gg) and the correct way: the Dutch way, with a sort of rolled (r) sound for the g.

Difficult to explain pronouciation without having to use phonetic signs! [Wink]

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Hans Off
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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well can you explain (gg) (r)o(r) and (f) please? I don't get the (gg)??!

I think the english are at least having a stab at the pronounciation rather than the American 'ignore the whole thing as it's too difficult' route!

(Just to clarify, I am talking about pronouncing peoples names here, the mauling of which I consider to be ignorant and rude, rather than regional pronounciatons of words, like bath, aluminium etc)

As to 'Why would that start a fight?' well you sort of nullified that question as you wrote it! (sort of a dooleybird post!) (dbp)

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Friend of a Friend
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Hans Off:
And the British don't tend to maul other peoples languages quite as badly as the Americans,

Hah! Ever hear them say Italian words that have come into English, for a start? Even something as simple as 'pasta'? They're better with French and maybe German ones, and that's about it.
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TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Eric Cartman swears more obsceneties than I even knew of when I was that age, and you're gonna quibble about him quoting an obscure (to the general public) Pink Floyd song? We're talking about a show where Kenny used to die every episode; I think it's safe to say logic needs not apply.

By the way, thanks to dyfsunctional for clearing up the robotic sheep lyrics. (For me at least.) I understood a few lines, and then they always lost me.

Trish "stone...stone...stone...stone..." DaDish

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Hans Off
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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How are you supposed to pronounce 'pasta' then?

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"British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything." Llewtrah


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dyfsunctional
I Saw Three Shipments


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The first a in "pasta" should be pronounced like the a in "car," not like the a in "map."

Hm...guess it was true, what they said about all generalizations being false.

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Vivling
Happy Holly Days


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Dysfunctional, everyone on the west-coast of Canada says "pasta" the "map" way. "Pasta" said with an a like "car" sounds British to me.

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Shake it, take control
You've got to find out for yourself whether or not you're truly trying
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Candy Q. Is Already From A Book
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Pasta.

Pasta.

Pasta.

Pasta...?

Pasta!

-Candy "I say it both ways and it still sounds like the same word to me" Q.

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dyfsunctional
I Saw Three Shipments


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Far as I know, most Americans say it like "car" and most British people say it like "map."
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aldiboronti
I Saw Three Shipments


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"And the British don't tend to maul other peoples languages quite as badly as the Americans."

Because we British have forgotten, as the Americans in the main have not, that when one adopts a word from a foreign language, it becomes a part of the English language and may, without any apology whatsoever, be pronounced as if it were an English word.

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Traveller
Deck the Malls


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Van Gogh: I thought the Dutch pronunciation for the g's was a kh sound.

Charade: I suspect 'charade you are' as a quotable phrase began with Pink Floyd. In hunting though I did find a cool quote from Germaine Greer in the Columbia World of Quotations. It really has nothing to do with anything but I really liked it and decided to share:

quote:
Older women can afford to agree that femininity is a charade, a matter of coloured hair, écru lace and whalebones, the kind of slap and tat that transvestites are in love with, and no more.

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Hans Off
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by aldiboronti:
"And the British don't tend to maul other peoples languages quite as badly as the Americans."

Because we British have forgotten, as the Americans in the main have not, that when one adopts a word from a foreign language, it becomes a part of the English language and may, without any apology whatsoever, be pronounced as if it were an English word.

I was refering to the use of names "Eldiboroughtie" !!

sorry [fish]

--------------------
"British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything." Llewtrah


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aldiboronti
I Saw Three Shipments


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It makes no difference. Don Quixote (pronounced Quicksott, compare French Don Quichotte), was the standard English pronunciation until recently.

Take the Spanish lover Don Juan. In Italian he is Don Giovanni, to the English of earlier centuries he was Don John, to Byron he was Don Juan (pronounced Joo-an).

You take the point.

Try the full monicker, Aldiborontiphoscophornio! [Smile] (Google for literary reference)

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Brandi
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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And the adjective is still pronounced 'quick-sott-ic.'
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StarlandVocalBand
The Red and the Green Stamps


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How is "goff" any closer to the actual Dutch pronunciation than "go"? Neither are even close approximations of the way the name is pronounced in Dutch ('kh-eu-kh).

"Charade you are" isn't a maxim, phrase, idiom, or anything except a quotation from Pink Floyd.

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