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Author Topic: Is Fred Phelps Dying?
MisterGrey
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I've been tempted to post this in recent weeks, but yesterday, after a semi-regular checkup of his homepage, it seems to be more of a pertinent question than ever: Is the devil ready to go home? Or, rather, is Fred Phelps dying?

In recent weeks the content in his "urgent column" has fallen into two categories: Insane, babble-ish ravings (moreso than usual) that amount to grabbing at straws and are full of more hateful rhetoric than even Phelps is used to spewing (Imprecatory Prayer for the US, for example), and what could almost be seen as his last instructions to his followers; his "basic compedium of Bible truths," for example, usually found all over his page but now suddenly collected into a flier. It would almost seem as if Phelps is simultaneously descending into uncontrolled delirium and trying to prepare for his demise. THIS more than anything makes me wonder. It's a nearly twenty-year-old transcript of a eulogy/service Phelps gave for the wife of an "almost phelps," Forrest Judd, identified in "Addicted to Hate" as Phelps' kinder, gentler counterpart. Aside from the fact that this sermon gives some interesting insight into Phelps' mind before his crusade against gays (if there was ever anything that, beyond a reasonable doubt, pigeonholed Phelps as a psychopath, it's his graveside freakouts and ramblings about wanting a new body and ultraviolet light), it raises a question: Why is this just going up now? Did one of his kids dig it out of a basement somewhere? The fact that the words are highlighted in red on the main page-- Precious in the sight of the lord is the death of his saints-- makes me think that a one-way ticket to the lake of fire (or maybe an exit pass from a life of living Hell, in the case of Mrs. Phelps) is in the works for someone at Westboro.

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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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(sighs)

If only it were true...

Maybe if we prayed hard enough, it might come true? [Wink]

- Pseudo "God hates stupidity" Croat

--------------------
"At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History

God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts.

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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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Nah - praying for his death would be stooping to his level.

Nonny

--------------------
When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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Mama Duck
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Well, he can't live forever and he is an old man. His end can't be very far off. He may well be trying to put his affairs in order so that someone else can step into his role after his death. I'd be a little surprised by that. He's so self-absorbed, one really can't see him agreeing to turn anything over.

It will be interesting to see what happens to his "church" after his death. I can't imagine too many people putting that much effort into deriding the lives of prefect strangers.

~But I've been staggeringly wrong before~

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christmas tree kitapper
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Nonny Mouse, Into the Fryer:
Nah - praying for his death would be stooping to his level.

Nonny

How 'bout if I stick my tongue out in his general direction and say "neener, neener"?

kit"just asking"ap

--------------------
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MisterGrey
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Mama Duck:
Well, he can't live forever and he is an old man. His end can't be very far off. He may well be trying to put his affairs in order so that someone else can step into his role after his death. I'd be a little surprised by that. He's so self-absorbed, one really can't see him agreeing to turn anything over.

It will be interesting to see what happens to his "church" after his death. I can't imagine too many people putting that much effort into deriding the lives of prefect strangers.

~But I've been staggeringly wrong before~

The heirs apparent to the throne of Phelps are daughter Shirley and/or son Fred Jr. Then again, I've wondered if FJ's loyalty to his father is really the result of a broken psyche, or if he's the strongest willed person on Earth and has been waiting 30+ years for revenge on dear old dad. If, when Fred croaks, it turns out Jr. had a hand in it, or at least whispered a curse over father's deathbed, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised (but more than a hell of a lot pleased).

On the other hand, Shirley is a less effective clone of daddy. If you've ever read some of the stuff she's written for godhatesfags.com you'd see what I mean. Unfortunately, Fred doesn't believe in giving women power, which in effect kills any hope of handing over the reins to the person most like him. The closest he could do would be to give it to son-in-law Roper, Shirl's husband, a man who once wrote a book about how Truman Capote introduced AIDS into America and how JFK picked it up during a game of football on the White House lawn, resulting in his and Marilyn Monroe's executions by the CIA.

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by kitap veya tavuklar: your choice:
quote:
Originally posted by Nonny Mouse, Into the Fryer:
Nah - praying for his death would be stooping to his level.

Nonny

How 'bout if I stick my tongue out in his general direction and say "neener, neener"?
Well, I think I'll pledge a donation to Friends and Families of Gays and Lesbians on the day of the man's mortal passing...

But a hearty "neener, neener," with extrusion of oral cooling mechanism, is definitely okay with me! I'll join you in the gesture!

Silas

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MisterGrey
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
quote:
Originally posted by kitap veya tavuklar: your choice:
quote:
Originally posted by Nonny Mouse, Into the Fryer:
Nah - praying for his death would be stooping to his level.

Nonny

How 'bout if I stick my tongue out in his general direction and say "neener, neener"?
Well, I think I'll pledge a donation to Friends and Families of Gays and Lesbians on the day of the man's mortal passing...

But a hearty "neener, neener," with extrusion of oral cooling mechanism, is definitely okay with me! I'll join you in the gesture!

Silas

I still think one of the funniest things in the world would be if a bunch of people donated money to an AIDS or gay/lesbian charity in the name of Phelps or Westboro; or if all us Snopesters, perhaps, pitched in and bought Fred a donation in his name to one such charity, and then had them send him a notification in the mail. I'd love it.
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nerdymcnerd
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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de mortuis nil nisi bonum

I expand that to never wish death on the living either. Even evil, disgusting living.

--------------------
Skunks hate the sound of industry.

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The Incredible Elisa
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Hey, I think MisterGrey is onto something there...
ETA: While I agree that wishing death on someone is a contemptible act, let's just say that it's not going to be his soul I'm praying for the day he dies.

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Can we at least do the man the courtesy of showing up at his funeral and letting everybody who comes by know that he's going to Hell because "God Hates NFBSKheads?"

I mean, he went to so much trouble to give other funerals the benefit of his presence, the least we can do is return the favor.

I'm picturing an "Official Mourning Party" made up of a bunch of folks dressed as Nazis and Klansmen, openly and hysterically weeping for the loss...

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I wanna go.

But I think the angel wings from the Laramie Project would be an extra-special touch.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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moruti
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I think that when Phelps gets to the Throne of Judgement, he'll be in for a helluva surprise.
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Brian O'blivion
Deck the Malls


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Look, your wishes have no effect one way or the other on when this twisted little bastard croaks, so I say wish away, without guilt.
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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by Brian O'blivion:
Look, your wishes have no effect one way or the other on when this twisted little bastard croaks, so I say wish away, without guilt.

Ah, but you miss one important aspect of morality: our wishes have an effect on *us*.

Wishing evil on others makes you into a different sort of person than someone who doesn't. This is why we don't steal, even if we know we can't get caught, and why we don't litter, even when there is no one watching.

Morality is a part of one's character; it's inward, not outward.

(Of course, I've got all the character of an orc, and often wish the most ghastly fates upon relatively innocent people...such as the guy who cut me off in traffic, may his jalopy explode in a ball of fire...)

Silas

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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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But wishes are just that: wishes. If we turned them into actions, then yes, there'd be a problem. However, as long as we keep our wishes wishes, then they can't harm anyone.

So I don't see what the fuss is all about regarding wishing ill on someone.

- Pseudo "actions speak louder than words" Croat

--------------------
"At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History

God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts.

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Teodoro
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I think it's like a principle thing. I kind of draw my personal line like this. It's ok for me to want a certain person to be neutralized, and understand and be absolutely comfortable with the fact that there's a fair chance that in the process he'll be killed, (let's say Hitler) because he poses a threat.

On the other hand, wishing death (or hell) on someone simply because I dislike him is something I would think a rather severe sin. I mean, wishing ill on people in general is a sin (albeit one in which I all too frequently engage), but wishing earthly demise and eternal damnation is some awfully strong medicine.

But hey, that's just my own feelings.

--------------------
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One end is moo, the other, milk.
- O. Nash

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STF
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I think it's tasteless to wish death on people, but can understand the desire in certain situations and this is one of those. I struggle more with how I feel after someone has passed if I didn't care for that person or have a particularly close connection to a family member for example.

On a slightly different point I just wanted to say that I had never even heard of this Phelps guy until I started posting here. He's a despicable person, but the fascination with him baffles me.

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Mickey Blue
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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While "wishing" death may be a tactless thing to do in public (depending on what senario your in) I don't view it as "immoral" or "evil".

If you think it, you said it, as far as morality goes IMO (though the latter is rude and taistless in most senarios). If I think that this guy was a drain on society and did nothing but preach hate of those he didn't agree with and that the world will be better off (even if only slightly) with him gone then thats what I think, I cannot change that. Thats human nature, its my actions that determine my morality.

Thats why not stealing, even if you know you wont be caught, is moral. Its not that you didn't want to steal, or weren't tempted, but that you didn't actually do it.

--------------------
"All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do"

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Moosedog
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat:
But wishes are just that: wishes. If we turned them into actions, then yes, there'd be a problem. However, as long as we keep our wishes wishes, then they can't harm anyone.

So I don't see what the fuss is all about regarding wishing ill on someone.

- Pseudo "actions speak louder than words" Croat

Because wishing ill of other people has a bad effect on US. It makes us meaner, more hateful. I think that this is what the Wiccans mean when they say that whatever you do to others comes back upon you sevenfold (some versions say ninefold.)

Plato (I think) said that that upon which we fix our attentions, in either hatred or love, we grow to resemble.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I am not wishing him dead. I just wanna go to his funeral.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Minstrel gone caroling
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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It's certainly up to God to toss Fred into whatever realm of afterlife is appropriate, but I can't help smiling at the mental picture of a massive group of Snopesters standing outside the funeral with signs saying, "God Hates Fred." Okay, it would be pretty awful for the Phelps family, but it would make such interesting newsreel footage!

And if someone really does set up the Fred Phelps Memorial PFLAG fund, I'll toss in a few dollars.

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Last year's goat was burned down by vandals dressed up as Santa Claus and the Gingerbread Man. They were never caught.
My blog. The Adventures of the Fish O'Thwacking.
Countdown: 177 days (or less!)

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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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quote:
Originally posted by sweet & sour detroitminstrel:
And if someone really does set up the Fred Phelps Memorial PFLAG fund, I'll toss in a few dollars.

Count me in too. While I won't wish for his death, once he's gone I'll have no qualms whatsoever about making him spin in his grave.

Nonny

--------------------
When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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No no no...I will call up some gay friends, we will all go to the wake and funeral in complete drag, weeping openly for him. Wishing hate is empty - they expect that from the people they bash. Much better in the "rich irony of Satan department" to go out there in bold glory, showing how much we loved him.

I'd love a picture of that: 6'5" drag queens in the shockingly bad drag, (like with beards and bad clothes and fright wigs, not the gorgeous/bordering on female drag queens, although they can come, too!) wearing black mourning gowns, leaving roses on his coffin and weeping, "He was too good a man for this world!!!" And then everyone holds hands and sings "Over the Rainbow" in his memory....

Is wishing his death bad or not? Depends on how you're brought up, I suppose. I was brought up Roman Catholic, and was taught that thoughts, words, actions and not doing good were all forms of sin. Therefore, just thinking evil thoughts like wishing someone dead will make you go to hell. (But that's a another Jack Chick story...)

Trish "Don't let your Karma run over your dogma" DaDish

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I would prefer not to.
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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Moosedog:
Because wishing ill of other people has a bad effect on US. It makes us meaner, more hateful. I think that this is what the Wiccans mean when they say that whatever you do to others comes back upon you sevenfold (some versions say ninefold.)

Plato (I think) said that that upon which we fix our attentions, in either hatred or love, we grow to resemble.

But it's only one person I want to wish ill on, and that for a very good reason. I don't feel mean or hateful.

Besides, my attentions can still be focused on love for the rest of the world, even though I may hate one man and wish him ill, right?

It's just one person. I can control my morality otherwise.

- Pseudo "certainly can't wish Mr. Phelps well, either - he doesn't deserve it" Croat

--------------------
"At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History

God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts.

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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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quote:
Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat:


- Pseudo "certainly can't wish Mr. Phelps well, either - he doesn't deserve it" Croat

I prefer to wish for him to realize the error of his ways and become a better, wiser, happier man.

Not that I'm holding my breath, you understand.

Nonny

--------------------
When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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Moosedog
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat:
But it's only one person I want to wish ill on, and that for a very good reason. I don't feel mean or hateful.

Besides, my attentions can still be focused on love for the rest of the world, even though I may hate one man and wish him ill, right?

It's just one person. I can control my morality otherwise.

- Pseudo "certainly can't wish Mr. Phelps well, either - he doesn't deserve it" Croat

"It is the little rift within the lute
That, by and by, will make the music mute."

Fred Phelps isn't the only evil, wicked, hate-filled, NFBSK on the planet (unfortunately); if you start wishing him dead, you'll probably find out about other people just as, or nearly as, bad, and will be able to justify wishing them dead. Little by little you will start ill-wishing more and more people until everyone who annoys you or disagrees with you will become, in your estimation, worthy of your death-wishing. And then you will be just as bad as Phelps, won't you? (We'll not even get into "the wish is the father of the act"; even if you never lift a finger to further those wishes of harm, they will have a corrosive moral effect on you.)

Far better to wish that, if he is in truth afflicted with a terminal disease, he will before the end see the error of his ways and renounce his hateful message.

Hate is a habit.
So is love.
Which is a better habit?

And besides, who are you to judge who is worthy of either? Aren't you falling into his very error by deciding that he is worthy of hatred?

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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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What if I just made a solemn oath to wish only Fred Phelps dead and no other man? I can stop at any time.

Besides, I've never heard of any historical figure going down the slippery slope Moosedog describes. It just doesn't happen that often, now does it?

Besides, Phelps isn't going to become a kinder, gentler person. No evil person I know of ever has. If anyone could provide one hisorical example of an evil man who has had a change of heart. I ask them to speak up about it.

Once a wolf, always a wolf. People like Phelps won't ever change. Hence my wishing ill of him (and no other man).

- Pseudo_Croat

--------------------
"At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History

God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts.

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat:
Besides, Phelps isn't going to become a kinder, gentler person. No evil person I know of ever has. If anyone could provide one hisorical example of an evil man who has had a change of heart. I ask them to speak up about it.

Time Magazine, many years back, had a very nice story about two good friends. One is black, and the other is ex-KKK. The second guy had been filled with hatred and race-prejudice, but was able to grow out of it.

George Wallace comes to mind as a historical figure: a nasty, vicious hate-monger who, in time, got over it.

It doesn't happen as often as we'd like...but it does happen.

(Neither the believers nor the non-believers here are of a mind to give up hope on individual redpemption!)

Silas

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Actually, I try not to wish bad things on people, because, well, they keep happening.

I lost two bitter enemies between the 7th and 9th grades that way.

Then, a few months ago on a rainy night as I was leaving the theatre after seeing "Passion," this kid with no patience sped past me (through a stop sign) in the mall's parking lot.

I lifted my hand in a time-honored gesture, and said "Hydroplane and crash."

And he did.

First "so be good, for goodness sake.." of Two

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Vyera
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat:

Once a wolf, always a wolf. People like Phelps won't ever change. Hence my wishing ill of him (and no other man).

Hey, no wolf deserves to be compared to Phelps. [fish]
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Simon Says
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by MisterGrey:
In recent weeks the content in his "urgent column" has fallen into two categories: Insane, babble-ish ravings (moreso than usual) [snip], and what could almost be seen as his last instructions to his followers; his "basic compedium of Bible truths," for example, usually found all over his page but now suddenly collected into a flier. It would almost seem as if Phelps is simultaneously descending into uncontrolled delirium and trying to prepare for his demise. THIS more than anything makes me wonder. [snip] it raises a question: Why is this just going up now? Did one of his kids dig it out of a basement somewhere?

I agree that is an odd addition to his page... Maybe 'old Fred is starting to get a touch of dementia. The older you get the greater your chances of getting Alzheimer's disease. Not that I would wish that on him anymore than I would wish that he would just die. After my father's experience with it, I wouldn't wish it on any family...not even theirs. But if you look at the pictures of him on his website, he is starting to get that bottomless gaze that is characteristic of those with Alzheimer's.
Posts: 624 | From: Kansas | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
IslandGirl239
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Heh, a little group if his came here to protest at my church. My church is extremely liberal and accepting, and we were having a speaker come to talk about tolerance and acceptance of homosexuals, etc. Well, his sick little minions were outside with these signs that said, "God Hates Fags" and "Thank God for September 11th" and "God Hates America." It was weird cause there were kids that were like, 12... it was really disturbing. So I rolled down my window and shouted, "Hey a**holes! Shut the f*** up!"... a few of them actually turned to look at me. I felt really tacky and guilty about it afterwards... but seeing them there was just pissed me off so much... Oh well, they're probably used to people shouting at them all the time anyway. What a group of morons...
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IslandGirl239
The Red and the Green Stamps


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With all his picketing at the funerals of homosexuals, I honestly don't see anything wrong with some wort of picket taking place at his. I know it's stooping to his level, but I really don't freakin care... I'm from Kansas, so it's really embarassing to have him associated with my state. Maybe I just have no class, but I say, you reap what you sew... if he wanted to have a nice, peaceful funeral, he should have thought of that before he bombarded mourning families of gay men at their funerals... too bad for his family, but now they'll know how it feels. Hope the sting of people waving signs in their faces leaves an impression...
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MisterGrey
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Simon Says:
quote:
Originally posted by MisterGrey:
In recent weeks the content in his "urgent column" has fallen into two categories: Insane, babble-ish ravings (moreso than usual) [snip], and what could almost be seen as his last instructions to his followers; his "basic compedium of Bible truths," for example, usually found all over his page but now suddenly collected into a flier. It would almost seem as if Phelps is simultaneously descending into uncontrolled delirium and trying to prepare for his demise. THIS more than anything makes me wonder. [snip] it raises a question: Why is this just going up now? Did one of his kids dig it out of a basement somewhere?

I agree that is an odd addition to his page... Maybe 'old Fred is starting to get a touch of dementia. The older you get the greater your chances of getting Alzheimer's disease. Not that I would wish that on him anymore than I would wish that he would just die. After my father's experience with it, I wouldn't wish it on any family...not even theirs. But if you look at the pictures of him on his website, he is starting to get that bottomless gaze that is characteristic of those with Alzheimer's.
You know, that had occurred to me, too.

Something else I thought... It would be a tremendous surprise to me if Phelps hasn't suffered some sort of brain damage over the years. We know for a fact, first of all, that for a period of seven years he was a hardcore amphetamine and barbiturate addict and that he's an alcoholic in remission. Aside from that, though... have any other snopesters ever bothered to download one of his sermons and listen to it? The man has fits. He has random, uncontrolled outbursts, (literally) bellowing incoherant, strung together phrases, run-ons, and fragments. He can't seem to stay on one topic for very long, digressing and then never going back to the original topic he was digressing from, and then digressing within a digression. He screams, he shrieks, he curses. How any person can keep this up on a constant basis and not suffer any kind of long term medical affliction is beyond me. His face especially has deteriorated incredibly over the years, and if you download some of the video clips he links to on his page, it almost appears as if he has the tattletale corner-mouth-paralysis that many stroke victims have; as Simon Says already pointed out, his eyes are taking on a decidedly more distant, glassy look, as opposed to the beady, hollow look that they used to have; many recent pictures of him show a man with a twitching, wandering eye that he can't seem to keep in palce, a wandering eye that he certainly never displayed before. His hands have spurted a bunch of hair growths that either weren't there before, or Freddie has given up on shaving. And in protests as recent as 2003, Phelps has been wearing what appear to be white surgical gloves, though what that's supposed to mean I don't exactly know (you can spot these in the photos of his protest at the Harvey Milk school). Maybe it's my hubris; can someone with more medical knowledge attest to the likelihood that Phelps has suffered any kind of brain damage, possibly/probably as the result of a minor stroke?

Posts: 2711 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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