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dansew
The Red and the Green Stamps


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recieved e-mail concerning last message of Fatima. predicting dire things at the first part of 2002.
True or False?

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ParaDiddle
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Is this a vote?
I vote "True", you did recieve an e-mail

- ParaDiddle


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BlueRose
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Dansew--

I don't know the content of the e-mail you've received, but here's some information about the subject.

I hope no one minds my posting more than just a link, but this way you won't have to go searching for it (I know that apocalyptic topics tend to crop up around the turn of the year.)

This is what is posted on the website of EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network), which, IMHO, is about as reliable a source for answers to questions on Catholic issues and doctrine as you'd wish to find.

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Fátima - Third Secret


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Until Saturday 13 May 2000 the Third Secret of Fátima was still a secret, kept in the Vatican's Secret Archives. What was revealed by Cardinal Sodano in Fátima, in anticipation of its publication with commentary by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, puts to rest the claims of apocalyptic natural disasters contained in some so-called Third Secrets. The fabricated nature of such claims was already known from the statement of the former Bishop of Leiria-Fátima who took possession of the Third Secret from Sr. Lucia Santos, and later delivered it to Pope Pius XII (who did not open it). The bishop said that while he did not read it, he noted that it was brief, a few lines.

As far as we know, the only ones to have read it are Pope John XXIII, his secretary Fr. Capovilla (now retired Archbishop Capovilla), Cardinal Ottaviani (late head of the Doctrinal Congregation), a Portuguese priest who translated it for the Holy Father, Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger. If others have read the Secret it has not been publicly reported, though we can assume, given its imminent release, that other collaborators of the present Holy Father have now done so.

In October 1997 both Cardinal Ratzinger and Archbishop Capovilla publicly denied suggestions in the Italian press by Fr. René Laurentin and journalist Victor Messori that the Fátima Secret reflected badly on the course the Church has taken since the Second Vatican Council. In this view Pope John XXIII had not released it because it contradicted his optimistic outlook.

Providing an insight to its actual contents, Archbishop Capovilla responded that it concerned "an extraordinary event," a "manifestation of the supernatural." For his part, Cardinal Ratzinger stated in an interview with a Portuguese radio station, "For those who are curious, I can offer assurance: the Virgin is not engaged in sensationalism, nor in feeding fears, or offering apocalyptic visions." The key to her message is its emphasis on prayer and penance. "She guides men toward her Son. That is what is essential."

Shortly after this controversy Sr. Lucia said in a rare interview with Spanish Television that the Third Secret was for the guidance of the Pope, who was never obliged to release it. It now seems that he has chosen to do so.

Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL


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RATZINGER REJECTS RUMORS ON SECRET OF FÁTIMA

(Catholic World News story, 10/14/97)

VATICAN (CWN) -- Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has directly contradicted a recent report regarding the content of the mysterious third secret of Fátima.

In an interview with the Italian publication Gazettino di Venezia, the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith dismissed the speculations of Father Rene Laurentin that in that third secret, the Virgin Mary had predicted a period of dissent from Catholic doctrine, leading to grave divisions in the Church. In remarks broadcast on Italian television, Father Laurentin-- who has gained special prominence through his work on Marian apparitions -- said that Pope John XXIII had chosen to keep the secret from the public in 1960, fearful of causing further intramural divisions.

But Cardinal Ratzinger rejected those ideas, and urged the faithful not to be preoccupied with such "fantasies and fictions." He pointed only a few people have been informed about the third secret of Fátima, and Father Laurentin's name is not on that list.

"Three popes have become acquainted [with the secret]," the cardinal observed, "and none of them has judged it opportune to make it public. They had good reasons for their decision."

In a separate interview with a Portuguese radio station, Cardinal Ratzinger added: "For those who are curious, I can offer assurance: the Virgin is not engaged in sensationalism, nor in feeding fears, or offering apocalyptic visions." The key to the understanding of the message of Fátima, he said, lies in Mary's emphasis on prayer and penance. "She guides men toward her Son," he said; "That is what is essential."


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Hope this helps!

Amy "not panicking" Bennett


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Guinastasia
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I thought they finally released it-a Pope would be assassinated?
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Been There, Done That
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quote:
Originally posted by Guinastasia:
I thought they finally released it-a Pope would be assassinated?


I believe it foretold that a Pope WOULD be assassinated. And yes, John Paul II was shot back in, oh, '82 or '83 somewhere around there. And it occurred on the anniversary of the first apparition. But JPII didn't die, thanks to the power of prayer, though his health hasn't been good since.


BT,DT


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MarkS
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The Vatican revealed the contents of the 3rd secret a few years back. Here it is:

http://www.adishakti.org/prophecies/prophecy_7.htm

A few interesting notes:

- Since so many people over the last 3 decades have invested so much of their time and energy in propogating the belief that the 3rd secret predicts: (A division in the church/The coming apocalypse/A call for christans to rededicate themseves/etc), it should hardly come as a great suprise that some question the document's validity.

- The message was written and delivered into the hands of the church with specific instructions that it be revealed in 1960, according to Lucia, because "the Virgin Mary wishes it so". This never happened (apparently, the "one true and apostolic church" knows better than the Virgin Mother)

- The Church's official interpetation (that this refers to the failed assasination attempt on the pope) strikes me as utter and complete nonsense. In the text, the "bishop in white" (presumably the pope) is killed. Not wounded, not shot, not injured then saved or resurrected, but killed. It claims he would be killed by a group of soldiers, not a single assasin. Finally, the text clearly refences the deaths of many others around him as well. None of this fits with the events surrounding the '81 assasination attempt.

So then, what does this message actually mean then? In my opinion, absolutely nothing. Even back when I was a "believer", I never thought that these were more than the products of the overactive imaginations of 3 bored young girls. But others are free to interpret them as they will.


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Bill
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkS:

- The message was written and delivered into the hands of the church with specific instructions that it be revealed in 1960, according to Lucia, because "the Virgin Mary wishes it so". This never happened (apparently, the "one true and apostolic church" knows better than the Virgin Mother)

It's my impression, based on some other reading that I had done (before it was made public) that the instruction was that it was to be *opened* in 1960 (not necessarily revealed to the public). After it was opened, a decision was made not to reveal it to the general public at that time.

Thanks.

Bill


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BlueRose
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quote:
Even back when I was a "believer", I never thought that these were more than the products of the overactive imaginations of 3 bored young girls.

Check again. The three seers of Fatima were 2 girls and a boy--Lucia dos Santos (still alive and living in a Carmelite convent in Coimbra) and Francisco and Jacinta Marto, her two younger cousins who died during an influenza epidemic.

For anyone who's interested, I highly recommend "Fatima: The Great Sign", by William Thomas Walsh (TAN Books and Publishers). All the background information is in there.

Also, please be aware that there are several sensational pamphlets and books that supposedly claim to reveal the REAL Third Secret of Fatima and these have been circulating since before the 1960's. Take whatever you read about it with a large shaker of salt.

Amy Bennett


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MarkS
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill:

It's my impression, based on some other reading that I had done (before it was made public) that the instruction was that it was to be *opened* in 1960 (not necessarily revealed to the public). After it was opened, a decision was made not to reveal it to the general public at that time.

Thanks.

Bill


Well, according to the Vatican, she presently claims she only stated that it be opened ON OR AFTER 1960, because it would be better understood then, and she is (naturally) now in full agreement with the Vatican's assesment of it's meaning.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

But there are an innumerable number of quotes from dozens of individuals who were directly involved at the time, which state that she passed the note with clear instuctions that it be opened either in 1960 or upon her death, whichever came first. This is just one, from Canon Galamba:
"When the bishop refused to open the letter, Lucy made him promise that it would definitely be opened and read to the world either at her death or in 1960, whichever would come first." (La Verdad sobre el Secreto de Fatima, Fr. Joaquin Alonso, Spanish Edition, pp. 46-47)


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tomc
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Rose --

Since you use EWTN and Mother Angelica as a reliable source, and since you use TAN books as references, you really should tell people that you are a very conservative Catholic (assuming you are RC).

EWTN/Mother A, and TAN books are not mainstream Catholic theology, especially Mother A. She is her own deity, often at odds with the Pope.


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PatYoung
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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The pope assassinated prediction actually does not specify the pope. Many Latin Americans beleive the prediction actually applies to Archbishop Oscar Romero assassinated while saying Mass in San Salvador on March 24, 1980.

--------------------
pat "Megadittoes Rush" young

THUMP, THUMP, THUMP

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tomc
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At best, and I mean at best, it is private revelation.

All revelation from God, the so-called "Deposit Of Faith," was completed with the death of the last Apostle. Anything else after that, regardless of the claimed messenger, the message or the seer, is private and does not bind the church or any of its members.

The Third Secret of Fatima, Lourdes, as well as any other claimmed apparitions and messages are, in church teaching, of no doctrinal or dogmatic importance to the church at large -- if, in fact, they ever actually happened.

Claims that this message must be brought to the Pope, the church, the people; that people must do this or that -- doctrinally, they are to be treated the same way as Internet chain letters that instruct you to "forward this to everyone in your address book."

Private Revelation has value only as it inspires the private recipient to become more loving, more forgiving, etc.


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