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Author Topic: Why you should never wear red in a casino.
Sceeva Gator
The Red and the Green Stamps


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http://www.ncbuy.com/news/wireless_news.html?qdate=2003-03-25&nav=VIEW&id=Y1818DRT539030325

Y'all think this is real?

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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Well, even normal cameras can make certain fabrics semi-transparent ... see Jewel at the - what was it? Grammys? - a couple years ago.

And I recall there was an issue with certain Sony video cameras with the Night Shot feature, which also made certain fabrics seem see-through.

So it seems likely that some of the security cameras have the same ability. What I would question is is having anything to do with color. My (limited, I admit) understanding is that the effect has to do with certain synthetic fibers passing IR light.

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Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


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The Eight-Legged Otter
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Since the article didn't provide any photographic examples, I'm a bit skeptical about "any red clothing."

Hell, people today are wearing see-thru clothes, camera or no camera.

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Hacker Barbie
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by chillas:
Well, even normal cameras can make certain fabrics semi-transparent...

I have one of those really loosely-knit sweaters. I was wearing a long-sleeved shirt under it, but on a picture a friend of mine took, it looks very see-through and I look very naked (like I have a see-through shirt on with no bra. Though the shirt is not see-through, and I have two layers on under it).

Diana

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ma-G
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Oh so thats what the empior was wearing!
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ma-G
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Oh so thats what the empior was wearing!
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moonlight
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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A lot of times if a girl has a satiny bra under a cotton shirt, the camera's flash will reflect, and you can see the bra cups in photos. The worst is with a white bra and a dark-colored shirt.

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Finite Fourier Alchemy
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by chillas:
And I recall there was an issue with certain Sony video cameras with the Night Shot feature, which also made certain fabrics seem see-through.

So it seems likely that some of the security cameras have the same ability. What I would question is is having anything to do with color. My (limited, I admit) understanding is that the effect has to do with certain synthetic fibers passing IR light.

I've worked on and and studied chormophores, nonlinear optics, and spectrometry, so I might be able to take a shot at this. This is my best guess:

An item of clothing (as with any physical object) absorbs light at some frequencies, reflects at some frequencies, and is invisible at others.

A red shirt reflects certain frequencies in the red range and absorbs other visible frequencies. If that shirt is of a material such as (I think) spandex, it will be invisbile (or at least translucent) to certain IR frequencies, or microwaves, or all sorts of other things.

Skin reflects IR, so if one wears clothing invisible to IR then someone with an IR camera would be able to see the skin beneath.

The Sony deal was that it used a CCD sensor, which is capable of detecting IR, and made the filter that rejects IR mechanically removable. With IR emitters on the camera, one could use it in the dark and see pretty much the same thing you would see with visible light, since most of the IR being detected was close to visible light.

However, CCDs detect nearly to the lowest frequency of the "near" IR spectrum, and in this range certain clothes are translucent. So if you make a filter to block out all frequencies except those in this range, one can use the camera to emit this radiation and detect it.

HOwever, given stories that this does not work except in the daytime, it is possible these frequencies are not produced by the IR emitter and thus have to be provided by an outside source, such as the sun.

Anyway, the color should have nothing at all to do with this, because just because something reflects a few wavelengths of red, it needn't be translucent to a few wavelengths of near infrared. It makes no sense.

If the cameras in the story have IR emitters and IR filters that allow in only light around 1000 nm, it will allow the cameras to see though all sorts of thin synthetic materials. The visible color of the dyes used in these materials are irrelevant.

I don't know why these casino cameras would work this way, and I'd need nore information on to what these cameras are supposed to do to say whether or not the story in its entirety is false.

Alchemy

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Thinking about New England / missing old Japan

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TheKid
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I'm going to have to go out on a limb and say that I highly doubt that this is in any way close to true. First off, I work in a casino. I have seen footage from surveillance video. I have never seen through anyone's clothing using it. Second, I have three different colored uniforms I can choose from each day. One is purple, one is orange, and the third is red. I have never heard anyone from the security office even jokingly saying anything about seeing through the uniforms. Third, the dice on a craps table are usually red. Are you telling me that the surveillance wants the dice that color so they can see through them? That would make their job impossible if the dice were in fact invisible on the film! Sounds like a bunch of bull to me.
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The Spider in the Ointment
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Perhaps it's really because the Chinese consider red to be lucky. Can't have all of them coming in and winning all the prizes now can we?

JK "Red Peril" Will

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Grand Illusion
Jingle Bell Hock


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One part in the article made me skeptical:

quote:
Swain says the cameras also see right through clothing made of polyester, bad toupees and cheap suits.
Evidently, the casino cameras have a tackiness filter on them.

Also, what would make casino security cameras any different from security cameras at other places, aside from the fact that women dress sluttier in casinos than they do at Wal-Mart.

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There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.

"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?" - The Brain

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subtechx
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Sounds like someone is tring to get publicity for his upcoming book.

James Swain

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abby 68
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Sony Video camera with Nightshot (IR filter)

Non NFBSK Pics


NFBSK Pics with link to ABC news Story at bottom of page

But nothing on cameras being able to see through red clothes or security cameras that can see through clothing.Lots of places that claim to sell such products.

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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Well, it appears that you can see through people's clothes using a Sony HandyCam. Wired ran a couple articles in August of 1998 about it: "Sony Shutters Revealing Camera" and "See You, See Me".

The FAA is developing camera systems that see through your clothes to produce a 360° view of your body which they plan to us to detect weapons: "Airport Scanner Sees Through Contraband - and Your Clothes" (1996!).

Nothing about casinos and red yet.

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All posts foretold by Nostradamus.

Turing test failures: 6

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myfriendjenny
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I worked in a casino for a couple of years and the I never heard anything about the cameras seeing through red, however there was at least one surveillance guy that was fired for using the security cams to focus in on women’s cleavage from above.

However, most of the cameras were constantly focused on the places where money changed hands, like the cashiers and the dealer’s hands. They spend a lot of time looking at the dealer’s hands because their biggest fear is a dealer in collusion with a casino guest.

Downstairs in the employee’s only area they had the lights so bright it rendered white shirts completely see through and of course many of the employee uniforms included cheap white shirts.

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