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Author Topic: Guns vs. Doctors
Pretty Punks Hate Vday
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Scary Doctor Facts
This is really something to think about:
A. The number of physicians in the US is 700,000
B. Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year is 120,000
C. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171 (US Dept of Health & Human
Services).
Then think about this:
A. The number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000.
B. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500.
C. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.
Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than
gun owners.
FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.
Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors
before this gets out of hand.
As a public health measure I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for
fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical attention.

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Elbe
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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And yet, I trust my doctor more than a gun when I'm sick.

--------------------
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DerekT
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So how many non-accidental death with guns as compaired to doctors? And how many doctors have been used in the commision of a crime?
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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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quote:
Originally posted by DerekT:
And how many doctors have been used in the commision of a crime?

Ask Rush.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Spam & Cookies-mmm
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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My doctor's hobby is shooting. I guess I'm doomed.

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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No, only if you are both patient AND target

--------------------
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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Elbe, feelin' the love:
And yet, I trust my doctor more than a gun when I'm sick.

Agreed, however when I'm being attacked and have to defend myself I trust my gun more than my doctor for that. He is rather elderly and I don't think quite as effective.

--------------------
I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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Troodon
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Something to note: by law, doctors must be licensed, but they have not been outlawed and confiscated yet.

--------------------
Fools! You've over-estimated me!

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by DerekT:
So how many non-accidental death with guns as compaired to doctors?

Some thousand vs. Several tens of thousands, if you count foeti, considerably less if you don't.

Not counting doctors who use guns to kill people.

It's a spurious comparison, really.

OTOH,
Q: What do you call a med student who gets a 60% on his final exams?

A: Doctor.

The medical profession really needs better quality control. It'd keep the malpractice suits (and thusly the cost of healthcare) down.

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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What is foeti?

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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And of the 120,000 people accidently killed by doctors is that all malpractice?

Sorry I still think guns are dangerous, and need to be kept with trigger locks.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I think that the actual number of people getting "attacked" has been confabulated.

Either that, or I, and everybody I know are just the luckiest people on earth.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Chiajedi hates valentine's day.
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by rhiandmoi sitting in the tree:
What is foeti?

Plural of fetus. Or foetus if you don't type in American.
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mizake the mizan
The Red and the Green Stamps


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is it pick on doctors day?

quote:
"Why Lawyers are Better than Doctors"

Lawyers provide an optional service. If you wish to obtain legal assitance, you hire a lawyer. However, you are also free to research the law and defend yourself if you so choose.

Dcotors have formed a cartel to make their service mandatory. You must see a doctor to obtain a perscription. You are not allowed to do your own research and choose your own treatment.


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LadyMoose, The Dateless Wonder
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
OTOH,
Q: What do you call a med student who gets a 60% on his final exams?

A: Doctor.

Because we all know that Med school is very easy, and those who do average in med school make very poor doctors.  -
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Troodon
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Another shocking fact: the medical treatment approximately half of Americans recieve is below the national average.

--------------------
Fools! You've over-estimated me!

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Angl Hearts and Minds Rdr:
I think that the actual number of people getting "attacked" has been confabulated.

Either that, or I, and everybody I know are just the luckiest people on earth.

I am happy for you, and wish you and everybody you know your continued luck. I wish people did't get attacked but unfortunately it does happen.

--------------------
I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Troodon:
Something to note: by law, doctors must be licensed, but they have not been outlawed and confiscated yet.

Yes, but their arn't organizations with the opinion that by their very design, doctors are extremely dangerous and about to kill a lot of innocent people. Their arn't organizations that are actively attempting to pass legislation to outlaw certain types of doctors because even though they are still just doctors nobody really needs these particular kind. I don't recall doctors being constitutionaly protected.

--------------------
I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Blue:
[QUOTE] Their arn't organizations that are actively attempting to pass legislation to outlaw certain types of doctors because even though they are still just doctors nobody really needs these particular kind.

Tell that to your local chiropracter, homeopath, or naturopath.

--------------------
"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by mizake the mizan:
is it pick on doctors day?

quote:
"Why Lawyers are Better than Doctors"

Lawyers provide an optional service. If you wish to obtain legal assitance, you hire a lawyer. However, you are also free to research the law and defend yourself if you so choose.

Dcotors have formed a cartel to make their service mandatory. You must see a doctor to obtain a perscription. You are not allowed to do your own research and choose your own treatment.


Actually, it's perfectly legal for you to perform surgery on yourself. However, like defending yourself in a felony trial, it's a really bad idea.

Silas

--------------------
When on music's mighty pinion, souls of men to heaven rise,
Then both vanish earth's dominion, man is native to the skies.

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Blue Jam
The Red and the Green Stamps


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As that old saying goes:
"A man who performs open-heart surgery on himself has a fool for a patient."
Or something like that.

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Blue Jam
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Specious argument - it's the non-accidental gun deaths that are the big problem. Number of deliberate doctor deaths is quite small.

* The accidental doctor deaths happen while the doctor is trying to save your life,
* The accidental gun deaths are when someone hasn't locked their gun up properly or cleans it without checking it ain't loaded.

Hardly a comparison.

How's about

* how many lives doctors save vs how many guns save.
* UK deaths from guns vs US deaths from guns.

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Bulldon
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Blue Jam:
The accidental gun deaths are when someone hasn't locked their gun up properly or cleans it without checking it ain't loaded.

ive never understood how you can clean a gun while its loaded, it just doesnt work that way. i always though that that excuse was given buy people that were being stupid.
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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by Angl Hearts and Minds Rdr:
I think that the actual number of people getting "attacked" has been confabulated.

Either that, or I, and everybody I know are just the luckiest people on earth.

I am happy for you, and wish you and everybody you know your continued luck. I wish people did't get attacked but unfortunately it does happen.
I'm not saying that people don't get attacked. I am saying that I don't think that guns save quite the number of people from attacks as some would have us believe.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Bulldon:
ive never understood how you can clean a gun while its loaded, it just doesnt work that way.

With all the guns I've handled, the first step in cleaning opens the chamber.

--------------------
All posts foretold by Nostradamus.

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Jason Threadslayer
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quote:
Originally posted by Blue Jam:
How's about
[...]* UK deaths from guns vs US deaths from guns.

Not a truly valid comparison. A better one would be of every country over a series of years. That would prevent someone from manipulating the data by purposefully comparing a country with a low crime rate for a given year with a country with a high crime rate. You'd also need to separate deaths from legal guns from deaths from illegal guns (and probably also have to separate law enforcement usage out).

It's about the same as comparing a year where the UK suffered heavily from terrorist attacks to a year the US was free of terrorist attacks and concluding that the monarchy, tea, or something else uniquely UK leads to terrorism.

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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Angl Hearts and Minds Rdr:
I think that the actual number of people getting "attacked" has been confabulated.

Either that, or I, and everybody I know are just the luckiest people on earth.

You and your friends are not a statistical sample. You and your friends may live in an area that is relatively violent crime-free.

Or as one person put it when Nixon or Reagan was elected, "No one I know voted for him".

--------------------
All posts foretold by Nostradamus.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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Jason, I was explaining specfically about the numbers of attacked people being saved because they were packing heat. The DoJ Uniform Crime Report doesn't require LEOs to record that data, so I have a hard time believing the numbers given by the NRA.

IOW, their anecdotes are no more valid than mine.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Christopher
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quote:
Originally posted by Troodon:
Another shocking fact: the medical treatment approximately half of Americans recieve is below the national average.

I have to admit to being outraged by this. It's time we did something to make all health care above the national average. [Big Grin]

--------------------
"Nothing is so firmly believed as what we least know." ~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne

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Cynestria
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Blue:
[QUOTE] Their arn't organizations that are actively attempting to pass legislation to outlaw certain types of doctors because even though they are still just doctors nobody really needs these particular kind.

Tell that to your local chiropracter, homeopath, or naturopath.
Well, as soon as someone manages to convince me that a homeopath/naturopath/the kind of chiropractor who gives the rest a bad name by claiming that prodding your spine will cure all known diseases is a doctor in any sense other than that they call themselves one, we'll take that up.

I could go out tomorrow and start telling people that if I whack them in the face with a newspaper it will cure all their ills, and there will be people who will believe it, but that won't make me a doctor, or my treatment proper medical practice.

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Christopher
Peruby, Don't Take Your Love to Town


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quote:
Originally posted by Cynestria:
[...] I could go out tomorrow and start telling people that if I whack them in the face with a newspaper it will cure all their ills, and there will be people who will believe it, but that won't make me a doctor, or my treatment proper medical practice.

My doctor used to hit me in the face with a newspaper all the time. That's the main reason I stopped going to a vet.

--------------------
"Nothing is so firmly believed as what we least know." ~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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I would rather be treated by a vet than by a doctor, I think they generally know more about what they are doing. Havn't actually put it to the test though. Still go see my doctor on a regular basis.

Angl hearts- I would like to refer you to the Armed Citizen section of the NRA's publications. Rather than simply relay stories sent to them by memebers, it seems that they are exerpts from newspapers which should be varifiable one way or the other.

--------------------
I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Newspaper reports are still anecdotal evidence.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Angl Hearts and Minds Rdr:
Newspaper reports are still anecdotal evidence.

Yes but should still be varifiable if the incident actually happened or not.

Are not newspapr articles one of the first steps we take here to determine if something is true or not? I'm certainly not suggesting we stop there by any means, but it is a jumping off point.

--------------------
I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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spam me, slam me
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If I break my leg, find a funny looking infection on my skin, or notice that I suddenly grew a third testacle overnight, I'll take my chances with the doctor. If I don't like what they say, I'll go to the gun for a second opinion.
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