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Author Topic: Did a 5-year-old girl give birth?
Nan8
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Did a 5-year-old girl give birth?

Maybe not, but I heard on Paul Harvey a week or so ago that an 8-year-old Vermont girl was raped but had an abortion at the 14th week. The man who did it is going to do 20 years in prison. Big deal! When he gets out, the girl will be my age (28)and he'll probably do it again. There is no justice. 100 years ago, they would have killed the guy for it.

There was an article in the SUN about 15 years ago about an 8-year-old giving birth, but traded the baby for a Cabbage Patch Doll which, she said, "Didn't poop its diapers".

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W. Fikere Tomba
The Red and the Green Stamps


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So is the title of this thread just a deceptive ploy or what? You should write headlines for a supermarket tabloid.
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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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You will now learn the Mantra:

"The Weekly World News is entirely made up."

"Paul Harvey spreads Urban Legends."

Repeat until comprehension sets in.

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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Lady Moon Shadows
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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This person is as bad as my grandmother. You don't actually believe these things do you?

sheesh

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Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate and wine in hand, body thoroughly used up, and screaming WoW what a ride!

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Kathy B
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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The World's Youngest Mother
quote:
Peruvian five-year-old Lina Medina, accompanied by her 11-month-old-son Gerardo, and Doctor Lozada who attended her son's birth, are shown in this 1940 file photo taken in Lima's hospital.

When her child was born by Caesarean section in May 1939, Medina made medical history, and is still the youngest known mother in the world.

I chose this web site because of the photo. See also Lina Medina

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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

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Schizm
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I'm still skeptical. On account said that when she gave birth by caesarean section, the baby was full term. Even if her sex organs were fully developed as claimed, according to the photo she' still the size of a small child. It just seems impossible that she would have been able to carry, let alone fit, such a large load within her tiny body.
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W. Fikere Tomba
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I thought I learned somewhere that the size of the pregnancy is not strictly correlated with the size of the baby, and that teenagers becoming pregnant for the first time often don't gain much weight and sometimes don't know they're pregnant until very late in the term. If that's correct, it would probably apply in this case too, so she might not have had such a tremendous load on her.

According to the site, her baby weighed 2700 grams at birth. That's just shy of six pounds -- not a huge baby.

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Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Doctor Lozada has conducted very detailed studies since the diagnostic of the pregnancy which aroused much curiosity in the country; he took an x-ray of the child and her baby, established a diagnostic of the fetal situation, observed the state of functionality of the little mother who had begun menstruating at the age of 8 months. At four years old she had already developed breasts as well as pubic hair, her body proportions were a bit amazing and her bone hardening a bit advanced, things that are often observed in cases of such premature pregnancy.
If this is a true case, the girl was a medical anamoly, and not representative of child or even teenage mothers.

What I want to know is who the father was. The article didn't mention anything about it. Even if she had breasts, menstruated, and was well-developed at that age, it takes a certain type of monster to do that to a child. If she was five years and eight months at the time of birth, then she was four when she was impregnated. Ick.

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"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Schizm:
Even if her sex organs were fully developed as claimed, according to the photo she' still the size of a small child. It just seems impossible that she would have been able to carry, let alone fit, such a large load within her tiny body.

Dwarves and "Little People" (is that the PC term?) are capable of giving birth to normal-sized, non-dwarf children. I don't think body size necessarily has a direct correlation with the size of the child at birth, or how large they will grow.

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"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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Kathy B
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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OK, I'll add the Reuters story referred to by Wikipedia. (and, yes, Reuters has been taken in before.)
Six decades later, Peru mulls aid to 5-year-old mother

The article mentions a book called "Mother Age 5" written by Dr. SAndoval. I can't find such a book. Interestingly, the Spanish Reuters articles just say he wrote a book about Lina but don't give the book name.

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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

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splashleigh
The Red and the Green Stamps


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The World's Youngest Mother
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peruvian five-year-old Lina Medina, accompanied by her 11-month-old-son Gerardo, and Doctor Lozada who attended her son's birth, are shown in this 1940 file photo taken in Lima's hospital.

When her child was born by Caesarean section in May 1939, Medina made medical history, and is still the youngest known mother in the world.


did anyone else check out this link? it looks like the doctor is wearing a pair of those 'x-ray specs' that you were able to order from catalogues when i was a kid!

for those who dont know what 'specs' im talking about, picture plastic toy glasses with a big swirl on each lens...

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AblazeSheLiveth
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Every article I found had pretty much the EXACT same wording as the Rueters article. I did find this though...
http://www.cellar.org/iotd.php?threadid=2118

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Nan8:
Maybe not, but I heard on Paul Harvey a week or so ago that an 8-year-old Vermont girl was raped but had an abortion at the 14th week. The man who did it is going to do 20 years in prison. Big deal! When he gets out, the girl will be my age (28)and he'll probably do it again. There is no justice. 100 years ago, they would have killed the guy for it.

Assuming he survives. Child molesters have, I understand, a very thin time of it in prison.

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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banana berry be my baby
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I doubt 100 years ago the child would have been believed, or even listened to, had she reported molestation. Of course, since she became pregnant, there is obviously proof, but the medical world of 100 years ago is not known for its accurate explanations of strange phenomena. Perhaps they would have put her on display at PT Barnum's Sideshow.
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Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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Hmmm. I can find no reference to this supposed crime anywhere on the web. Perhaps because it didn't happen?

Pogue

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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StarlandVocalBand
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I wonder if Harvey was garbling the story of the Connecticut ten-year-old impregnated by a 75-year-old man.

STOP THE PRESSES! Harvey was partly right--the girl is eight, but she lives in New York. The man did receive a twenty-year sentence, but he's 44.

GRRRRRR!!!!!! Words fail me.

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Bonnie
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Pardon the late delivery, but -- for what it's worth -- I've dug out three additional contemporaneous reports on Lina Medina by Edmundo Escomel, one of Peru's preeminent physician-researchers of the period and a laureate of the prestigious French Academy of Sciences. Here are the most salient features of these pieces, some of which repeat the details presented in links Kathy provided above.

Escomel's first correspondence to the editors of La Presse Medicale [1], which is undated, but which appeared in the 13 May 1939 issue, noted that Lina first came to the attention of Dr. Gérado Lozada, chief physician of the Hospital of Pisco (Peru). At the beginning of April 1939, she appeared at that hospital for evaluation of what was assumed to be a massive abdominal tumor.

It soon became obvious to the stunned Lozada, however, that the little girl was pregnant. A medical history revealed that she had been having regular periods since age 3, but that she had stopped menstruating for the past 7½ months. Additionally, she had fully developed breasts. Further examination revealed a fetal heartbeat and an X-ray confirmed the pregnancy.

Escomel reports that Lozada submitted a report about this case to the Academy of Medicine in Lima.

Escomel's announcement, dated 20 May, of Lina's delivery of a baby boy (on 14 May) appeared in the 31 May issue [2]. In addition to amending the age at which Lina began menstruating (to an incredible 8 months), Escomel produced a photograph of the gravid, naked 5½-year-old. (This photograph, while obviously of clinical and factual interest, may be somewhat disturbing to some readers.)

At the end of this piece, Escomel notes with some sadness that no one had yet discovered the identity of the father, since Lina –- after all, she was 5½ at the time -- "couldn't give precise responses." He also stresses the importance of getting adequate care for this little girl.

Escomel's final report [3] was published in the 19 December 1939 issue. There, he comments on a biopsy of one of Lina's ovaries; this sample was removed at the time of the Cesarean section. He also provides photomicrographs of the stained tissue sections. In the end, pathologists pronounced that hers were the ovaries of a fully mature woman. Escomel posits that the reason behind her precocious fertility cannot lie in the ovaries themselves, but stems from an extraordinary hormonal disorder of pituitary origin.

The U.S. press was also obviously interested in this curious and disturbing story.

quote:
[From a report by United Press, "Five-and-Half-Year-old Mother and Baby Reported Doing Well," The Los Angeles Times, Pg. 2, 16 May 1939.]

Dr. Hipolito Larrabure, head of the maternity hospital, who aided Dr. [Geraldo] Lozada [director of the Pisco Hospital] during the [Cesarean] operation, said Lina withstood the operation in excellent manner. Medical circles here were astonished at the birth, which they believed without precedent. Dr. Larrabure said the case was "truly astounding" and added that he hoped "some United States scientific foundation will send an investigator to Lima to observe the case and indicate the best manner of caring for the mother and child."

quote:
Physician Upholds Birth Possibility
The Los Angeles Times, Pg. 2
16 May 1939

CHICAGO, May 15. (Exclusive) -- The possibility of a girl becoming a mother at the age of 5, as reported on Sunday from Lima, Peru, was upheld today by Dr. Joseph B. De Lee, obstetrics authority of Chicago Lying-in Hospital.

Dr. De Lee cited the case of a Russian girl who became a mother at the age of 6½. According to the physician who reported the case in a German medical journal, Dr. De Lee said, the mother had the physical development of a girl 10 or 12 years old.

quote:
[From "U.S. Health Official Returns from Peru: Dr. S.L. Christian Assisted in Staffing Hospitals," The New York Times, 15 November 1939, Pg. 9.]

While in Lima Dr. [S.L. Christian, assistant surgeon general of the U.S. Public Health Service] examined Lina Medina, the Indian child-mother whose baby was born last May when the mother was about 5 years old. He said that although there was some confusion as to whether the mother was 5 or 6, there was no doubt of the authenticity of the case, which he described as the most amazing thing in his career as a physician.

A report in The New York Times (8 August 1940, Pg. 8) indicated that a trip was being organized so that the girl could be "brought to the United States within a month for examination by a five-man medical commission." Plans called for the little mother, the baby boy, and the girl's parents to travel to Chicago. I haven't found anything to indicate that this group ever made that trip, however.

quote:
[From "Wife of Peruvian Envoy Arrives to Join Him Here," The New York Times, Pg. 8, 29 July 1941.]

Another passenger [on the liner Santa Clara, which was returning from South America] was Mrs. Paul Kosak, specialist in child education at Teachers College, Columbia University. Mrs. Kosak is the only child psychologist who has been permitted to make studies of Lina Medina, the Peruvian girl who, two years ago, gave birth to a child at the age of 5 years.

Mrs. Kosak said she gave a series of intelligence tests to the child and that on the basis of this study she has no doubt the child's age was given correctly.

"Lina is above normal in intelligence and the baby, a boy, is perfectly normal and is physically better developed than the average Mestiza (Spanish Indian) child," she said. "She thinks of the child as a baby brother and so does the rest of the family."

Bonnie "keeping mum" Taylor

[1] "La plus jeune mère du monde," La Presse Medicale, 47(38): 744, 1939. (Saturday, 13 May 1939)

[2] "La plus jeune mère du monde," La Presse Medicale, 47(43): 875, 1939. (Wednesday, 31 May 1939)

[3] "L'ovaire de Lina Medina, la plus jeune mère du monde," La Presse Medicale, 47(94): 1648, 1939. (Tuesday, 19 December 1939)

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Se non è vero, è ben trovato.

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snopes
Return! Return! Return!


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quote:
The article mentions a book called "Mother Age 5" written by Dr. Sandoval. I can't find such a book.
Perhaps it hasn't been translated into English yet and is only available under a title such as "Madre de Cinco Años."

- snopes

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by Nan8:
The man who did it is going to do 20 years in prison. Big deal!

There aren't too many countries where you'll find people feeling 20 years is no big deal. Personally, I think it is a fearfully long sentence and should thus serve as a good deterrent.

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"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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Wizard of Yendor
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
There aren't too many countries where you'll find people feeling 20 years is no big deal.

I agree with you. (A somewhat rare event actually.) In fact, I'm not sure I can even comprehend how bad 20 years in prison would be. To put it in perspective, that's about 1/4 of a lifetime.

Though on the other hand Nan8 is right that it's not justice. That's not the kind of crime you can ever make right.

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Tikidrone
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Wow, The first three replies on this subject slammed the poster (Nan8)...I wonder if there will be any apologies?

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I have seen the future and it licks itself clean. Bucky Katt

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I'm 20th Century Fox
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Pulp Tikidrone:
Wow, The first three replies on this subject slammed the poster (Nan8)...I wonder if there will be any apologies?

Doubt it, since they were posted 5 months ago.

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When my chin is on the ground I pick myself up, dust myself off and start all over again.

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Tikidrone
Jingle Bell Hock


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Doubt it, since they were posted 5 months ago. Didnt know ...since the subject was resorected...But youre right...doubt it.

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I have seen the future and it licks itself clean. Bucky Katt

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Double Latte
Happy Holly Days


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Psst! Lady Moon Shadows? First of Two? You might want to take a look at this thread! [Wink]

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"Senility Prayer"
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked
The good fortune to run into the ones that I do
And the eyesight to tell the difference.

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I'm 20th Century Fox
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Pulp Tikidrone:
Doubt it, since they were posted 5 months ago. Didnt know ...since the subject was resorected...But youre right...doubt it.

I got caught up in reading the posts and following the links, so I didn't realize it was an old thread either at first.

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When my chin is on the ground I pick myself up, dust myself off and start all over again.

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