snopes.com Post new topic  New Poll  Post a reply
search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello snopes.com » SLC Central » Rantidote » Stupid ticket for sliding off road covered in ice. (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Stupid ticket for sliding off road covered in ice.
Singing in the Drizzle
Jingle Bell Hock


Icon 208 posted      Profile for Singing in the Drizzle     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I just recieved a ticket for my wifes little slide of the road on Nov 11. The road were iced over due to thawing snow and water refreezing at night. While driving at a speed somewhat less than 25mph. I'm guess by the lack of any damage 10-15 mph. The car in front hit the brakes to slow down and a car comming for the other direction started to slide on the ice so the lights were point at my wifes car. She panic and hit the brakes (she know its a bad thing now). The car slow spins around 180 deg and then slides down the banked turn into the ditch and then onto it side due to the depth of ditch.

Here is what the ticket was for;
quote:
RCW 46.61.670
Driving with wheels off roadway.

It shall be unlawful to operate or drive any vehicle or combination of vehicles over or along any pavement or gravel or crushed rock surface on a public highway with one wheel or all of the wheels off the roadway thereof, except as permitted by RCW 46.61.428 or for the purpose of stopping off such roadway, or having stopped thereat, for proceeding back onto the pavement, gravel or crushed rock surface thereof.


[1977 ex.s. c 39 § 2; 1961 c 12 § 46.56.130. Prior: 1937 c 189 § 96; RRS § 6360-96. Formerly RCW 46.56.130.]

I think this should be easy to fight, since she was not operating or drive any vehicle except to stop vehical.

Edited to fix some spelling errors.

Posts: 597 | From: Bellingham, WA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Midgard_Dragon
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Midgard_Dragon   E-mail Midgard_Dragon   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Okay, did the officer on this one just have nothing better to do? I can't begin to fathom why anyone would give a ticket to someone who has just experienced sliding (while doing the speed limit) on an iced road. It's just adding insult to injury.

--------------------
Midgard Dragon
-==UDIC==-
MidgardDragon's MySpace

Posts: 2455 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Morrigan
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Morrigan   E-mail Morrigan   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm going to guess that the officer thought that you/your wife were/was driving at an unsafe speed.

Morrigan

--------------------
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

Posts: 1701 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Roadie
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Roadie     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
But there are citations for driving at unsafe speeds.

5 years ago, I was in a terrible single-vehicle rollover accident. I was driving the speed limit, I was sober, I'd had enough sleep. I simply allowed my right tires to go off the edge of a nowheresville highway, then over-corrected. My ticket was for "Failure to Exercise Due Caution While Driving", since apparently almost losing my foot, destroying a vehicle, crushing various bones on the left side of my body, eight surgeries, and months of a wheelchair and rehab, and learning how to walk again weren't enough of a deterrant.

The Attorney General of Nevada later opined that this was not a valid statute to cite someone under unless it was in conjunction with some other wrong-doing. Sometimes, accidents just happen.

I'd take this one to court, if I were your wife. I would have taken mine to court if I had been ambulatory.

--------------------
"The little local company I buy from has CHEAP shipping and I have met their goats." (snapdragonfly)

"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus)

Posts: 2658 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Singing in the Drizzle
Jingle Bell Hock


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Singing in the Drizzle     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Morrigan:
I'm going to guess that the officer thought that you/your wife were/was driving at an unsafe speed.

Morrigan

Here is what the laws for that in Washington State are, and you can be charged with violating it. I have been.


quote:

RCW 46.61.400
Basic rule and maximum limits.

(1) No person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing. In every event speed shall be so controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person, vehicle or other conveyance on or entering the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to use due care.

(2) Except when a special hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subsection (1) of this section, the limits specified in this section or established as hereinafter authorized shall be maximum lawful speeds, and no person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed in excess of such maximum limits.

(a) Twenty-five miles per hour on city and town streets;

(b) Fifty miles per hour on county roads;

(c) Sixty miles per hour on state highways.

The maximum speed limits set forth in this section may be altered as authorized in RCW 46.61.405, 46.61.410, and 46.61.415.

(3) The driver of every vehicle shall, consistent with the requirements of subsection (1) of this section, drive at an appropriate reduced speed when approaching and crossing an intersection or railway grade crossing, when approaching and going around a curve, when approaching a hill crest, when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway, and when special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.

[1965 ex.s. c 155 § 54; 1963 c 16 § 1. Formerly RCW 46.48.011.]



Posts: 597 | From: Bellingham, WA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kmcm
We Three Blings


Icon 1 posted      Profile for kmcm   Author's Homepage   E-mail kmcm   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Dude, this is Washington! I was in a car accident in '95, flew into the windshield, and was given a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. As if i hadn't suffered enough! They like to give tickets for as many little things as possible, so they look like they are generating revenue.

--------------------
Of course this land is dangerous! All of the animals are capably murderous. Especially the penguins.

i'm a figment of my own imagination, sometimes i don't exist

Posts: 1099 | From: Kitsap County, WA | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ganzfeld     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I can understand being pissed about a ticket that you didn't feel was her fault but I can't understand blaming the police. If you're driving a car, it seems to me you have to take responsibility for where it ends up -- whether that be another person's car or a utility pole or simply off the road. Getting a ticket is part of that responsibility. You say she knows it's a bad thing to panic and hit the breaks. If she knows it's a bad thing then the ticket should come as no surprise to anyone. The officer doesn't have to make the final judgement so, although he could have been a little more understanding, it doesn't sound like a completely unfair ticket. I hope you can get a judge to drop it but even if you do, that doesn't mean the oficer was wrong to give it. (Sorry if I seem negative. I realize that this is probably not the type of response you're hoping for.)
Posts: 4922 | From: Kyoto, Japan | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Psihala
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 05 posted      Profile for Psihala   E-mail Psihala   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kmcm:
Dude, this is Washington! I was in a car accident in '95, flew into the windshield, and was given a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. As if i hadn't suffered enough! They like to give tickets for as many little things as possible, so they look like they are generating revenue.

I guess I don't understand. If the police aren't supposed to write tickets for violations of existing laws, what's the point of having the laws?

If you break your nose as well as the law, you don't get a free pass on the ticket because you're hurting.

I'm sure there are cases when a police officer (or judge, if the case goes to court) will take circumstances into account, but their jobs are to enforce the laws. Sympathy isn't supposed to be part of the justice system.

~Psihala
(*General 'you', there...)

--------------------
StealthPost™

Posts: 3020 | From: Colorado | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Troberg     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Around here, it's common practice to don't issue tickets if you crash unless someone else gets hurt or you were doing something seriously stupid, such as driving drunk or recklessly racing.

It's not in a law, but it's still adhered to.

--------------------
/Troberg

Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Unusual Elfin Lights
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Unusual Elfin Lights   Author's Homepage   E-mail Unusual Elfin Lights   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Odd tickets, eh?

A very good buddy got one in New Jersey.

He was driving along a winding road and was smoked by another car. His car fishtailed and took out a phone booth. He hit his head on the steering wheel and lost consciousness.

Hours later he woke up in the hospital, head hurting like hell, not remembering a thing about the chain of events that got him there.

His Mom and Dad were there and were able to tell him that he got hit, his car took out the phone booth, it then continued down the road for about 50-60 metres before hitting the ditch and rolling. The firefighters used their extraction tools to get him out and rush him to the hospital. In the end, he ended up with a hefty concussion, but that was all. The car was written off.

The ticket he got... leaving the scene of an accident. Apparently, the state trooper considered where he took out the phone booth to be the accident scene, not 60 metres down the road, where Corey ended up.

He went to court, with neck brace still on, and a letter from his doctor stating that in their professional opinion, Corey would have had no control over anything from the time he was hit until he awoke in the hospital.

He eventually got it thrown out.

As for the OP, I would challenge it, merely on principle. There was no intent to drive with wheels off the roadway. I think it is challenge worthy.

Posts: 2064 | From: New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
christmas tree kitapper
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


Icon 1 posted      Profile for christmas tree kitapper     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I slid off the highway back in '96 just south of Wausau during a snowstorm, and the state trooper who ran across me very nicely waited with me until a tow truck showed up, but didn't even ticket me, even though I told him that yes, I was going too fast for conditions.

Maybe he was rewarding me for blatant honesty.

--------------------
"I have never in my life been more disappointed by a politician I voted for than I have been with George Bush. He is a total liberal."- overheard by me on the shuttle to the U of A game on Nov. 11th.

Posts: 3878 | From: Tucson, AZ | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kmcm
We Three Blings


Icon 1 posted      Profile for kmcm   Author's Homepage   E-mail kmcm   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Psihala:
quote:
Originally posted by kmcm:
Dude, this is Washington! I was in a car accident in '95, flew into the windshield, and was given a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. As if i hadn't suffered enough! They like to give tickets for as many little things as possible, so they look like they are generating revenue.

I guess I don't understand. If the police aren't supposed to write tickets for violations of existing laws, what's the point of having the laws?

If you break your nose as well as the law, you don't get a free pass on the ticket because you're hurting.

I'm sure there are cases when a police officer (or judge, if the case goes to court) will take circumstances into account, but their jobs are to enforce the laws. Sympathy isn't supposed to be part of the justice system.

~Psihala
(*General 'you', there...)

The best part, which i failed to mention, was that i was a passenger in the accident. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Of course this land is dangerous! All of the animals are capably murderous. Especially the penguins.

i'm a figment of my own imagination, sometimes i don't exist

Posts: 1099 | From: Kitsap County, WA | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Die Capacitrix
We Three Blings


Icon 304 posted      Profile for Die Capacitrix     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kmcm:
quote:
Originally posted by Psihala:
quote:
Originally posted by kmcm:
Dude, this is Washington! I was in a car accident in '95, flew into the windshield, and was given a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. As if i hadn't suffered enough! They like to give tickets for as many little things as possible, so they look like they are generating revenue.

I guess I don't understand. If the police aren't supposed to write tickets for violations of existing laws, what's the point of having the laws?

If you break your nose as well as the law, you don't get a free pass on the ticket because you're hurting.

I'm sure there are cases when a police officer (or judge, if the case goes to court) will take circumstances into account, but their jobs are to enforce the laws. Sympathy isn't supposed to be part of the justice system.

~Psihala
(*General 'you', there...)

The best part, which i failed to mention, was that i was a passenger in the accident. [Big Grin]
As you were over 16 at the time, you were eligible for your own ticket. If you had been under 16, the driver would have received the ticket for having an unbelted passenger.

--------------------
"Strength is the capacity to break a chocolate bar into four pieces with your bare hands - and then eat just one of the pieces." Judith Viorst

Posts: 1082 | From: Luzern, Switzerland | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Hazed
We Three Blings


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Hazed   E-mail Hazed   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ganzfeld:
I can understand being pissed about a ticket that you didn't feel was her fault but I can't understand blaming the police. If you're driving a car, it seems to me you have to take responsibility for where it ends up

I disagree. If you're sliding on ice, sometimes you aren't responsible for where it ends up.
Posts: 1128 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
abbubmah
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for abbubmah   E-mail abbubmah   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
You're responsible for taking your car out on the road in the first place, regardless of conditions. After that, you ARE generally responsible as to where you take it. Or take somebody else's.

--------------------
Fundamentally Unfundie since 1975

Posts: 7942 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


Icon 1 posted      Profile for chillas     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm afraid I have to agree with hambubba. It is the driver's responsibility to maintain control of the vehicle, and sliding on ice indicates that the driver was driving in an unsafe manner (whether going too fast or stomping on the brakes) in the first place.

--------------------
Come on, come on - spin a little tighter
Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


Posts: 5595 | From: Columbus, OH : The Soccer Capital of America | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
jw
The First USA Noel


Icon 1 posted      Profile for jw     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Die Capacitrix:
As you were over 16 at the time, you were eligible for your own ticket. If you had been under 16, the driver would have received the ticket for having an unbelted passenger.

Our laws differ, in that it's the driver's responsibility to ensure everyone wears a safety belt, irrespective of age.
And this sentiment also applies to the OP, in that keeping under speed limits is not the only reason for safety awareness in hazardous driving conditions, for which the driver is ultimately responsible.

--------------------
On my old guitar sell tickets, so someone can finally pick it.

Posts: 799 | From: Dublin, Ireland | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Die Capacitrix
We Three Blings


Icon 04 posted      Profile for Die Capacitrix     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jw:
quote:
Originally posted by Die Capacitrix:
As you were over 16 at the time, you were eligible for your own ticket. If you had been under 16, the driver would have received the ticket for having an unbelted passenger.

Our laws differ, in that it's the driver's responsibility to ensure everyone wears a safety belt, irrespective of age.
And this sentiment also applies to the OP, in that keeping under speed limits is not the only reason for safety awareness in hazardous driving conditions, for which the driver is ultimately responsible.

Are you sure? From here:
quote:
There is a legal obligation to be restrained and this applies to drivers and passengers. Furthermore, there is an additional onus on drivers to ensure that persons under 17 are suitably restrained while they are in charge of the vehicle.
I believe it is quite common in the western world, that anyone who is of an age to have a driver's license, is responsible for their own seatbelt, and will be fined accordingly.

As a driver I have the choice to not move the vehicle until every passenger belts up. As my grandmother's granddaughter, driving her car, I'm not going to get very far with that argument. It is unreasonable for me to be responsible for her fine. She can pay her own.

Switzerland has similar a seatbelt law.

--------------------
"Strength is the capacity to break a chocolate bar into four pieces with your bare hands - and then eat just one of the pieces." Judith Viorst

Posts: 1082 | From: Luzern, Switzerland | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
jw
The First USA Noel


Icon 1 posted      Profile for jw     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Originally posted by Die Capacitrix:
quote:
Are you sure? From here:
I was not aware that passengers(over 17) would get the fine. I assumed I would get the penalty points and the fine. I will have to check this out. It's not clear from your link, or maybe I'm missing something. But my son who is only driving six months, tells me I'm wrong.

--------------------
On my old guitar sell tickets, so someone can finally pick it.

Posts: 799 | From: Dublin, Ireland | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Singing in the Drizzle
Jingle Bell Hock


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Singing in the Drizzle     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
My problem is not that she got a ticket so much as she got at ticket that does not apply to the situation as I saw it. I would have expected a ticket issued right their for violating basic speed code RCW 46.61.400, not some ticket sent to my wife a few day later for dirving on the side of the road. This to me looks like something that he had to go back to the office and look up and even then its a strech to use it in this situation.

The officer that show up told me that when he first showed up he almost feel on his butt when he stepped on the road way to cross. He then went back and put tracsion divice on his shoes and made a emergance call for a truck to sand the highway.

I know my wife was not driving very fast for a few reason. No one I say while waiting for the tow truck to arrive was driving more that 20-25 mph. More importantly, after pulling her car out. The only damage was to small creases in the front quarter panel from being on its side. The car had no are very little forward movment when entering the ditch. I'm pertty sure she also stayed in her lane around the corner as the car spun around, since there is a lot of traffic on that section of road coming for the other dirrection.

Posts: 597 | From: Bellingham, WA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Spamamander in a pear tree
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Spamamander in a pear tree     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Darn west side drivers. [Razz]

I had the ticket for "failure to yield" that resulted in a minor accident cut in half here in WA. By the time my court date came up, I was more visibly pregnant than I had been when I got the ticket and I told the truth about why I was in a hurry and inattentive... I REALLY had to use the bathroom after a long shift at work!

--------------------
"There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein

Posts: 1058 | From: Yakima, WA | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
KDS
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


Icon 1 posted      Profile for KDS     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Greetings,

I agree that drivers (and passengers when applicable) need to take responsibility for their actions. Sometimes, though, even when you do everything exactly right (or, much more commonly, when you do everything as well as you are able) accidents still happen.

quote:

If you're driving a car, it seems to me you have to take responsibility for where it ends up -- whether that be another person's car or a utility pole or simply off the road.

We have no reason to think that Drizzle’s wife was not driving safely, and he specifically stated that she was extra cautious and aware of the icy conditions. Even the officer had to don special gear to compensate for an extremely slippery roadway; it seems that this wasn’t run-of-the-mill road ice. Other than the case of stomping on the breaks, she appears to have done nothing wrong. What we have here is the essence of a true accident: someone did little or nothing wrong, but something unexpected happened anyway.

While Drizzle’s wife did technically break the law, so did the Muslim woman who refused to remove her facial veil when boarding a city bus (granted that was a rule, not a law). In both of these cases, it seems that - for lack of a better way to phrase it - the spirit of the law was not broken even if the law itself was. Hopefully things will be resolved with the ticket being thrown out.

quote:

I'm sure there are cases when a police officer (or judge, if the case goes to court) will take circumstances into account, but their jobs are to enforce the laws. Sympathy isn't supposed to be part of the justice system.

Blindly enforcing laws is not exactly the wisest practice. Discretion, if not sympathy, should be (in my opinion) and sometimes is (from what we’ve seen here) applied towards each individual case. In the case of the ticket going to court, isn’t using her judgment based on the facts presented exactly what she is supposed to do (in order to find if the ticket was warranted)?

I just realized there’s an (awful lot) of (parentheses) in my post.

--------------------
I dunno, I like the same qualities in a man as I want in a dog. Big, happy, friendly, and hairy. Not too much slobber either. ~Sue Bee

Posts: 140 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Hazed
We Three Blings


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Hazed   E-mail Hazed   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KDS:
Greetings,

I agree that drivers (and passengers when applicable) need to take responsibility for their actions. Sometimes, though, even when you do everything exactly right (or, much more commonly, when you do everything as well as you are able) accidents still happen.

quote:

If you're driving a car, it seems to me you have to take responsibility for where it ends up -- whether that be another person's car or a utility pole or simply off the road.

We have no reason to think that Drizzle’s wife was not driving safely, and he specifically stated that she was extra cautious and aware of the icy conditions. Even the officer had to don special gear to compensate for an extremely slippery roadway; it seems that this wasn’t run-of-the-mill road ice. Other than the case of stomping on the breaks, she appears to have done nothing wrong. What we have here is the essence of a true accident: someone did little or nothing wrong, but something unexpected happened anyway.
Thank you. That's pretty much what I was thinking too. Trust me, as someone lives in a place that has some pretty snowy/icy winters, just because one slides on ice/skids on snow, etc., doesn't mean that they necessarily did anything wrong. I mean, nature dictates that ice is slippery; hence, sometimes you will slide on it...even when you are driving at a reasonable speed.
Posts: 1128 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
KDS
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


Icon 1 posted      Profile for KDS     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Greetings,

Ack! I just noticed I missed a key word in one of my points, which made it a bit confusing. I didn’t catch it before the reply timer ran out, unfortunately, so I’ll just quote myself to clear it up. It should read (bolded the changes):

quote:

In the case of the ticket going to court, isn’t the judge using her judgment based on the facts presented exactly what she is supposed to do (in order to find if the ticket was warranted)?

The more I read it, the less I like how I worded that, but I wouldn’t want to change it this late in the game even if I could. I also realize that should read his/her and he/she as a judge can be of both genders, of course.

ETA: I did it again! Added a missing "it". Tonight's not my night for posting.

--------------------
I dunno, I like the same qualities in a man as I want in a dog. Big, happy, friendly, and hairy. Not too much slobber either. ~Sue Bee

Posts: 140 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Singing in the Drizzle
Jingle Bell Hock


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Singing in the Drizzle     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
KDS, while I agree with most of what you said. From what I read of the law and was in my first post. The law from what I read does not apply to my wifes situation. It was miss used to give her a ticket as I see it. In the end it will be the Judge that makes the desision.
Posts: 597 | From: Bellingham, WA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


Icon 1 posted      Profile for chillas     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KDS:
We have no reason to think that Drizzle’s wife was not driving safely [...] Other than the case of stomping on the breaks, she appears to have done nothing wrong.

Yes, we know for a fact that she was not driving safely, as you yourself mention here - she stomped on the brakes while in icy conditions. That is unsafe. You can't say "Other than the case of stomping on the breaks (sic)", because stomping on the brakes is the issue. There is no "other than" that.

--------------------
Come on, come on - spin a little tighter
Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


Posts: 5595 | From: Columbus, OH : The Soccer Capital of America | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ganzfeld     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hazed:
If you're sliding on ice, sometimes you aren't responsible for where it ends up.

"Officer, I swear to you, that ice patch just jumped right out in front of the car! There was nothing I could do!" Um, yeah.

They didn't teach me this very well at driver's ed in the US but they sure do hammer it into the brain of young drivers here in Japan: You're repsonsible for plannnig and preparations of your trip and that includes weather and road conditions. If you can't drive on ice, you really shouldn't be driving on ice. If there were extenuating circumstances (and I can understand that - it happens), then that's generally for a judge to hear, not a police officer.

Posts: 4922 | From: Kyoto, Japan | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
abbubmah
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for abbubmah   E-mail abbubmah   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KDS:
quote:

If you're driving a car, it seems to me you have to take responsibility for where it ends up -- whether that be another person's car or a utility pole or simply off the road.

We have no reason to think that Drizzle’s wife was not driving safely, and he specifically stated that she was extra cautious and aware of the icy conditions.
Quote my post as a whole... and treat it as an "if-then" statement. Once you get behind the wheel of a car, you are responsible for its operation. Granted, it may not be "your fault" for sliding on the ice, but it IS your fault for being in icy conditions. This is why tickets are issued in some cases; I suspect, if not for simply local moneygrubbing, then to wake you up to the fact that there are consequences from your actions. Or poor planning, whichever may apply.

By driving on icy roads while unequipped with proper saftey devices such as stud or chains, you run a greater risk of causing harm to others or yourself.

--------------------
Fundamentally Unfundie since 1975

Posts: 7942 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


Icon 211 posted      Profile for BeachLife   Author's Homepage   E-mail BeachLife   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by chillas:
quote:
Originally posted by KDS:
We have no reason to think that Drizzle’s wife was not driving safely [...] Other than the case of stomping on the breaks, she appears to have done nothing wrong.

Yes, we know for a fact that she was not driving safely, as you yourself mention here - she stomped on the brakes while in icy conditions. That is unsafe. You can't say "Other than the case of stomping on the breaks (sic)", because stomping on the brakes is the issue. There is no "other than" that.
Yeah, saying she was driving safely except when she stomped on the brakes on ice is like saying she was driving safely except when she closed her eyes and randomly turned the wheels.

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

Posts: 12094 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Blue Phantom
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Blue Phantom   E-mail Blue Phantom   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Did the officer witness the accident? If not, that might explain why the ticket was for driving off the roadway. He didn't witness any unsafe speeds or reckless driving, so probably felt he couldn't issue a ticket for that. Maybe he felt (or was told) a ticket was necessary, and this was the best he could come up with.

Still seems kinda shaky, though.
Blue "ice scream" Phantom

Posts: 26 | From: California | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Midgard_Dragon
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Midgard_Dragon   E-mail Midgard_Dragon   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm sorry but no matter what has been said this still boggles the mind. Driving on ice is an extremely scary experience and it's not one of the things you have to "prove" you're able to do when you take the driving test. Around here when the weather gets that bed, while there are some idiots, most of us try to help each other. An officer around here encountering someone slid off the road would help the person get back on the road, not issue them a ticket. If said officer witnessed them driving recklessly before sliding off the road, I'm sure he would issue the ticket, but not if he just saw and overcorrection or lapse in judgement such as hitting the brakes.

--------------------
Midgard Dragon
-==UDIC==-
MidgardDragon's MySpace

Posts: 2455 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Midgard_Dragon:
An officer around here encountering someone slid off the road would help the person get back on the road, not issue them a ticket. If said officer witnessed them driving recklessly before sliding off the road, I'm sure he would issue the ticket, but not if he just saw and overcorrection or lapse in judgement such as hitting the brakes.

And that is why Tennessee is home to the worst drivers I have ever seen in my life (I have lived in 26 states in total, and have lived and driven in Utah, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, California, Maine, Virginia, Michigan, and Tennessee; I have driven in many, many more states): officers do not issue tickets when people violate the law and cause accidents.

Absolutely they should help those who have had accidents, but they should also cite those who acted in a manner which caused the accident. If you drive a car in icy conditions, you should know better than to slam on your brakes on the ice, even if you're "scared."

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Monza305
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Monza305   E-mail Monza305   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Stomping on the brakes in icy conditions can be a bad thing, but...

What if the car had anti-lock brakes? Stomping on the brakes would not be a bad thing. Some people would argue that it is what you should do.

--------------------
I've got a pen in my pocket does that make me a writer?
Standing on the mountain doesn't make me no higher.
Putting on gloves don't make you a fighter.
And all the study in the world doesn't make it science. -Paul Weller

Posts: 199 | From: Kalamazoo, MI | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


Icon 211 posted      Profile for BeachLife   Author's Homepage   E-mail BeachLife   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Monza305:
Stomping on the brakes in icy conditions can be a bad thing, but...

What if the car had anti-lock brakes? Stomping on the brakes would not be a bad thing. Some people would argue that it is what you should do.

And if we had bacon we could have bacon and eggs for breakfast if we had eggs.

Yes, in a car with anti-lock brakes, stomping on the brakes is the correct course of action. But, in a car without anti-lock brakes it will always send your car out of control.

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

Posts: 12094 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 1 posted      Profile for ThistleSoftware     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Monza, isn't the idea that if you're breaking too hard on ice, you're using up your available traction to slow down and then there's not enough traction to keep from sliding? I didn't think it had anything to do with the brakes locking.

--------------------
Officially Heartless

Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post new topic  New Poll  Post a reply Close topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Urban Legends Reference Pages

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2