quote:Originally posted by Hero_Mike: X-ray scanning of shoes is mostly to look for metal weapons (recall that we used to be able to bring small knives on planes - not anymore). Most shoes have at least some metal in them - even if it isn't seen, many styles of shoes use metal nails or staples as a short-cut in contstruction even if they are mostly glued. Never mind metal eyelets or hooks, metal shanks on hiking shoes, or safety shoes. My winter boots used to be a pair of insulated safety shoes - but not while I'm flying.
Slowly the temporary restrictions are being lifted - already one carry-on is allowed in the UK, though the liquids/gels ban may continue. My big beef with this is that first the airlines cut down on hospitality service, then went to such things as buy-at-the-gate bag lunches. Now they just encourage people to pack their own lunch. Except now you can't bring your own drink. I'm disappointed too because I use an over-the-counter non-prescription liquid every day, and quite often when I fly. But non-prescription eye-drops are most likely banned, and the gels/liquids may never come back.
I have been through more airport screenings than I care to remember. But standing around watching the TSA people re-run bag after bag because the idiots in line don't understand the simple instructions. If you have a laptop, take it out of the case and put it in its own plastic container. As much of the problem is people not willing to comply with the *simple* rules meant for everyone. We're not talking about random body cavity searches of young women - just the basics.
I often find that women don't seem to realize they have to remove every piece of jewerly before going through the metal detector. Seriously don't wear most jewerly before going on the airplane. No hard to take off rings or tons of necklaces. My mom is quilty of this and I have to remind her to remove it before she trips the metal detector holding up the line.
Posts: 320 | From: Birmingham, Alabama | Registered: Jul 2006
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No security system is going to be 100% effective. If you really want to bypass them, rather than really getting 'lucky' then you can, with the right level of expertise.
The security systems in place represent tne best current technology (and probably budget) allow.
Yes, very inconvenient. But security is there to attempt in the best possible way, to save your (humble traveller's) life. Not to mess you around.
I'd prefer to spend several hours, bored out of my wits staring at the in-flight display, or the fusilage, knowing that somebody has as least made the effort to try to ensure that I and said fusilage reach my destination together in one piece.
-------------------- "Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people." Posts: 997 | From: Maidstone, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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You could always go charter or fractional. The plane waits for you and there is no baggage screening. Of course you pay several thousand dollars an hour...
quote:Originally posted by tootiredtocare: I often find that women don't seem to realize they have to remove every piece of jewerly before going through the metal detector. Seriously don't wear most jewerly before going on the airplane. No hard to take off rings or tons of necklaces. My mom is quilty of this and I have to remind her to remove it before she trips the metal detector holding up the line.
I've never been asked to remove every piece of jewellery. I've been asked to remove watch, bracelets and heavy necklaces, but light necklace, rings (which would not come off anyway), earrings (presumably other piercings) and hair grips were permitted to stay on my person. It's not feasible to remove and replace intimate piercings or metal buttons in an airport lounge.
I eventually had the rings sawn off. My finger joints had thickened as I matured and there was no way to remove the rings without cutting off either the ring or the finger. Same sort of thing for the necklace, it was a fine chain without a clasp (fitted by breaking and mending a link) so the only way to remove it was to break a link. I used to get scanned with one of those wands. Lots of other folks have permanent jewellery, metal pins in limbs etc. A colleague had a metal plate in his skull which caused merry hell in airport scanners.
quote:Originally posted by CheseJRS: You could always go charter or fractional. The plane waits for you and there is no baggage screening. Of course you pay several thousand dollars an hour...
Private jets have seen a huge increase in demand over here. $6000/hour (though I don't know why a British TV station discussing British private jet companies quoted the cost in $ rather than GBP). They expect the demand to stay at the increased level for business travellers.
quote:What happens when you travel internationally and your checked luggage doesn't arrive? From my trips, you recovered your checked bags, then went through immigrations and customs. If your bag doesn't arrive, do you have to pass through I&C without it, then reenter the international portion to retrieve it, then pass through I&C again?
That happened almost every time I went home from Jordan (it was a quick transfer in Vienna, and they usually didn't have time to move the bags to the next aircraft).
Basically, what happens is that you go to a special counter, show them your luggage tags (usually on the ticket), point out the approximate type of bag from a page of photos of typical bags, give them your adress and go home. The bags are sent on the next plane, and then sent with courier to your home/place of stay. They usually arrive later the same day, sometimes the next day.
Actually, I kind of liked it. I didn't have to keep a poker face when I went through customs (not that I had any major contraband (just some third party produced CDs), but customs still makes me feel guilty), I didn't have to haul the bags out to the car/train. Just go home and relax and get them delivered straight to the door.
Just make sure you have some money when you are travelling out, so that you can buy some emergency stuff just in case. I did that anyway, as I got lazier and lazier each time I went, and sometimes forgot to pack some stuff. It also was a bit confusing to pack because I could never remember what I left in the apartment in Jordan. Still, with some money, most problems can be solved.
-------------------- /Troberg Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005
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If you remember that the purpose of the TSA is to make you feel safer, not to make you safer you will understand their actions in this case. I don't know if your understanding will extend to asking passengers to arrive up to 4 hours prior to flight time then not having anyone from TSA in the terminal until 2 hours before the first flight. As to baggage there are only two types, carry-on and lost. The last time I read statistics on lost bags it showed that about 2 percent of the checked bags were lost. On a 200 passenger aircraft that means that 4 passengers on each flight arrived sans baggage. As to putting valuables in checked baggage, you might as well hand them over to the nearest stranger when you get to the airport. Checked bags are required to be unlocked so that TSA can easily do a manual check. That also makes it easy for baggage handlers or TSA employees to help themselves to anything in your luggage. Interestingly, neither the airline or TSA will admit responsability for items stolen from your luggage and if your insurance won't cover your loss, you are out of luck. There was an article in the Chicago Tribune this week stating that United in Chicago is having a problem with police and military personell losing their firearms out of their checked bags. The FOP is recommending to their members that they not fly United for this reason. If I can't carry it on, FedEx gets it before I go.
-------------------- President Bush said what? And you believed him?? Heeeere's your sign Posts: 85 | From: Park Forest, IL | Registered: Jan 2006
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I just flew back (via United, in fact) from Heathrow, and while the lines were long, they moved quickly, everyone seemed efficient and helpful, we arrived on time, and while it was a nuisance not to have cosmetics and toiletries, and especially bottled water to hand, it was no big deal. I arrived three hours before my flight left, at 5 a.m., and it seemed as if they were fully staffed. Round of applause for everybody (except that rotten queue-jumping American woman who insisted nasally, "I was standing here." No one noticed you as we wound round and round the departure lounge for 40 minutes until that moment when I pointed out, nicely, that the queue began way back there. Isn't that odd? And then you somehow bollocksed up a check-in machine, complaining loudly all the time, and then demanded that another passenger bring you the pen you'd dropped. The passenger you'd shoved in front of, btw. He was nicer that I would have been).
ETA: All my baggage arrived safely. Even the crisps and crunchies weren't terribly crushed.
-------------------- ~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~ Posts: 10111 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2004
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I flew on Air Tran to Boston on Saturday and back home again Tuesday and it wasn't too bad. Some airports never stopped x-raying every person's shoes so I didn't notice the difference. My bag was lost on the way to Boston. I didn't see it again for over 26 hours. They called Sunday morning at 9 to say a driver was leaving in an hour to bring my bag to me and I didn't get it until 9:30 pm! They had the poor guy driving all over northern New Hampshire and southern Maine delivering to more than 14 places. Poor guy. After I tipped him he thanked me for not taking it out on him. He appeared to have had a very long day.
On the plane back to Dallas I noticed people on board with fast food restaurant drinks. They had them in their hands and just walked on board. On Saturday they were "randomly selecting" people to be screened an extra time before boarding the plane but they did not do that at all on Tuesday. Seems things are getting lax already.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Chloe: I just flew back (via United, in fact) from Heathrow, and while the lines were long, they moved quickly, everyone seemed efficient and helpful, we arrived on time, and while it was a nuisance not to have cosmetics and toiletries, and especially bottled water to hand, it was no big deal.
Emphasis mine.
It worries me to read things like this, because it comes across as passive acceptance of the stripping away of "comforts" and personal belongings. I mean, if it wasn't a big deal to you, I'll take you at your word. But I'd rather hear people complain and demand that they be allowed some comforts when travelling. (It's sad when we consider water a privilege.) I guess I'm just afraid that if people say "It was no big deal to go along with all these new restrictions" then...well, it just seems sort of Orwellian, if that makes sense.
quote:Originally posted by tootiredtocare: I often find that women don't seem to realize they have to remove every piece of jewerly before going through the metal detector.
Ahem.
1. Women aren't the only people who wear jewelry. 2. I have never been asked to remove jewelry, nor have any of my travelling companions. Once we had to take off our belts for an extremely sensitive metal detector in another country. 3. Most metal detectors will not be set off by light metals such as snaps, buttons, zippers, rings, earrings, etc. Heavier jewelry might need to be removed. 4. People with permanent piercings or metal plates/pins simply need to inform the gaurds and they'll be scanned with a handheld metal scanner.
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Chloe: I just flew back (via United, in fact) from Heathrow, and while the lines were long, they moved quickly, everyone seemed efficient and helpful, we arrived on time, and while it was a nuisance not to have cosmetics and toiletries, and especially bottled water to hand, it was no big deal.
Emphasis mine.
It worries me to read things like this, because it comes across as passive acceptance of the stripping away of "comforts" and personal belongings. I mean, if it wasn't a big deal to you, I'll take you at your word. But I'd rather hear people complain and demand that they be allowed some comforts when travelling. (It's sad when we consider water a privilege.) I guess I'm just afraid that if people say "It was no big deal to go along with all these new restrictions" then...well, it just seems sort of Orwellian, if that makes sense.
I think, though, there is a difference between calmly accepting something you cannot change, at that specific moment in time, and passively accepting that it should never change.
What purpose would be served by getting angry and making scenes in the middle of an airport?
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Christie: I think, though, there is a difference between calmly accepting something you cannot change, at that specific moment in time, and passively accepting that it should never change.
What purpose would be served by getting angry and making scenes in the middle of an airport?
Oh, no no no! I wasn't suggesting anyone make a scene there, since there's nothing you can do at that point. I meant talking about it in editorials, letters, message boards, blogs, etc. We've been doing that here in this thread. I was just worried that if this flying experience could be written off as no big deal, people (not necessarily Chloe) might keep doing that and just passively accept it after a while instead of demanding change.
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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I remember being in Chengdu (PR of China) in 1984. I saw a small broken horseshoe in the street (possibly for a donkey, or similar - not an equestrian expert.) I decided it might make a keepsake of sorts, so I picked it up and slipped it into the pocket of my jeans (The small tight one inside the right-hand main pocket that has no known use.)
Then I forgot about it. Three days later, time for our next flight. Walked through the metal detector *beep*
I put my watch and coins into the basket provided, and walk through the metal detector again. *beep*
Then I remove my belt with a metal clasp, this being the last metallic object I thought I had on me *beep*
I was then ordered to strip down to my underpants. (These guys were kind of big, and had guns, so I didn't see any benefit in arguing with them.)
At last, no beep. They hand searched my clothing, and discovered the horseshoe. Much laughing from the guards, and a bright red face from me.
It was quite humiliating to be standing almost naked in the middle of the airport. But at the end of the day, they were just doing their job.
BTW, they let me keep the horseshoe.
-------------------- "Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people." Posts: 997 | From: Maidstone, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by hardhead: Checked bags are required to be unlocked so that TSA can easily do a manual check.
Any time I've flown my checked bag has always been locked (and not with a TSA approved lock), same thing goes for my parents. None of us have ever gotten into any type of trouble over this, or had our locks broken off. I'm probably wrong anyway, but I thought it just had to be unlocked as it was being checked in, and then you could lock it.
Either way, ours were locked from when we left home, on all trips.
-------------------- àðé ãåã äîìê Posts: 26 | From: New York, NY | Registered: Apr 2006
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Luggage is not "required to be unlocked" but you do lock at your own risk. If your suitcase needs to be opened they will break the lock and you cannot expect to be recompensed for that.
We've always locked our luggage, and so far, have never had the locks broken.
quote:(TSA) - US Transportation Security Administration has issued the following information to passengers arriving into the United States and connecting to other flights or continuing on the same flight.
For your security, the TSA is screening all checked baggage. In some cases, screeners will have to open your baggage as part of the screening process. If your bag is unlocked, then TSA will simply open and screen the bag. However, if the bag is locked and TSA needs to open your bag, the locks may have to be broken.
You may keep your bag locked if you choose, however, passengers who elect to lock their checked baggage must do so with the understanding that this process may result in damage to locks and/or baggage delays.
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Mr. Furious
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I'll be locking all of my luggage with a lock that can be opened by TSA screeners with a special key. I'll be seriously cheesed if my locks get cut off.
posted
Someone told me once that the airport security staff were trained in lock-picking skills, and had all the necssary tools. Also that they did this on a random basis for security reasons. We're going back a couple of decades ago, when airport security was a bit more laid back.
Personally I think that was B.S.
-------------------- "Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people." Posts: 997 | From: Maidstone, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Someone once told me they have parties in the baggage loading area while wearing underwear from the bags they've lockpicked on their heads.
-------------------- "The little local company I buy from has CHEAP shipping and I have met their goats." (snapdragonfly)
"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus) Posts: 2658 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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Someone once told me they have parties in the baggage loading area while wearing underwear from the bags they've lockpicked on their heads.
I've been wrestling with a change of career for a while now, not quite being able to decide. Now you have made up my mind. Thanks! I'm phoning Heathrow tomorrow morning for an application form.
-------------------- "Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people." Posts: 997 | From: Maidstone, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Eddylizard: Someone told me once that the airport security staff were trained in lock-picking skills, and had all the necssary tools. Also that they did this on a random basis for security reasons. We're going back a couple of decades ago, when airport security was a bit more laid back.
Personally I think that was B.S.
Well those tiny luggage locks, with the tiny key are really no problem to pick, you don't even need any type of special tool to do it...the pins are made so badly, I've forced one open by just shaking it lightly.
I don't think there's any way to get the (non-TSA approved) combination locks off other than cutting them, but I'm not really sure about that.
-------------------- àðé ãåã äîìê Posts: 26 | From: New York, NY | Registered: Apr 2006
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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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quote:Originally posted by Christie: Luggage is not "required to be unlocked" but you do lock at your own risk. If your suitcase needs to be opened they will break the lock and you cannot expect to be recompensed for that.
I use those plastic tags - they hold the bag shut and stop people casually opening it but they're equally easy to cut through if necessary and it doesn't matter if they are.
I've never seen any sign that my bags have been opened while checked in, though.
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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The tiny locks were only ever there to serve as a deterrant to thieves. They won't take the time to pick the lock, they'll go to the next unlocked one. TSA will cut of any lock they don't have a key for.
Cervus, I'm right there with you. The worst thing to see will be people passively accepting the change. I'm not going to be a sheeple. I'm not flying under these kind of restrictions (save some life or death emergency). I'll drive or stay home. The loss of my dollars may not make a difference but it makes me feel better.
Gibbie
-------------------- If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Posts: 3993 | From: Indiana | Registered: Feb 2000
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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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quote:Originally posted by Chloe: I often get a note in mine to tell me it's been rummaged through, though I can usually tell because it's better organized.
Wow, they tell you? I've never had that.
I did once get a note from the Royal Mail, though, included in a larger envelope together with a letter from my mum, claiming that my letter had been "damaged by a machine". Coincidentally the machine had "damaged" it in exactly the way you'd expect if somebody had stuck their finger in one corner and ripped it open, I apparently lived in an area known for drug dealers at the time, and my mum had decided (for reasons known only to mothers) to enclose several small packets of salt with the letter. I never quite believed them about the machine.
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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I don't know if they *always* tell you, but I can witness that they tell you at least some of the time. They seem to open my bags quite a lot; I think the cans of processed and mushy peas may look suspicious. (You know, I bet if you carried some of your mum's salt, you could get your bags opened too).
-------------------- ~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~ Posts: 10111 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2004
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The TSA has in the past secured opened bags with nylon cable ties. (I also got a note saying that they "had" to open my bag). Worked perfectly except that you needed a knife or a pair of scissors to open the bag. Where were the scissors? In the bag of course.
-------------------- President Bush said what? And you believed him?? Heeeere's your sign Posts: 85 | From: Park Forest, IL | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Richard W: d my mum had decided (for reasons known only to mothers) to enclose several small packets of salt with the letter.
Richard, if you PM me your mother's address, I'll have my mom send on the "World's Weirdest Mother" award to her.
-------------------- "The little local company I buy from has CHEAP shipping and I have met their goats." (snapdragonfly)
"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus) Posts: 2658 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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Richard - are you sure it was salt? Maybe your mother had taken out an insurance policy on you or had signed on for Terrorism-for-Beginners evening classses and was sending you anthrax?
quote:Originally posted by Llewtrah: Richard - are you sure it was salt? Maybe your mother had taken out an insurance policy on you or had signed on for Terrorism-for-Beginners evening classses and was sending you anthrax?
That reminds me of a cartoon: A classroom setting. The words "Suicide Bombing 101" written on the chalkboard. The instructor stands at the front, wired for detonation, his students sitting attentively at their desks.
"Now watch carefully. I'm only going to do this once."
-------------------- How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005
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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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quote:Originally posted by Llewtrah: Richard - are you sure it was salt? Maybe your mother had taken out an insurance policy on you or had signed on for Terrorism-for-Beginners evening classses and was sending you anthrax?
I don't think I ever used the salt, so it may well have been something else...
Roadie, I think her logic was that, because I was a student, I wouldn't be able to afford my own salt and so she'd steal a few packets from a restaurant for me. It's a habit she got from my granny, who couldn't go into a café without stuffing her handbag with half their sugar supply.
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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Asking about if you want to be safe when flying is plain stupid, as everybody wants that. A more interesting question is what level of security people find acceptable? Like driving a car? A Motorcycle? Bungee? Sleeping in bed? Going by train?
Where do you draw the line for what's acceptable security levels?
-------------------- /Troberg Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005
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Exactly right Troberg. It is amazing how few people will admit that that is the question.
Other random thoughts.
I would think that there is zero chance of TSA trying to pick a lock. Why would they? They can cut it off in about 2 seconds (and they are allowed to) so why waste the time it takes to pick the lock?
The actual number of bags that are screened in the US is pretty low. I believe the number that are opened is much less than 10%. The actual statistics are hard to find, for obvious reasons. So if you lock your bags it is unlikely that TSA would even notice.
Posts: 629 | From: Greenwood, IN | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by hardhead: If you remember that the purpose of the TSA is to make you feel safer, not to make you safer you will understand their actions in this case....
Actually, it seams to me that the purpose of TSA is to remove liability from the airlines. You can't sue the airline if something happens to a plane since they didn't do the security checks.
(OK, this is the US, anybody can sue anybody for any reason. But your chances of winning a negligence suit against the airline went way down after TSA was formed.)
Posts: 629 | From: Greenwood, IN | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by tootiredtocare: I often find that women don't seem to realize they have to remove every piece of jewerly before going through the metal detector.
Ahem.
1. Women aren't the only people who wear jewelry.
While "unseen" and non-removable piercings exist for both genders (albeit rarely), I can honestly say that I've never seen any male wearing anklets, toe rings, rings on all ten fingers, or a collection of braclets that would stop bullets better than Wonder Woman. This is not a sexist comment, but it happens to be true. It is also true that the number of women who wear such large amounts jewelry is rare. But they do exist.
I have seen some women suffer a great deal of indignity, not to mention difficulty, in the airport security screening. We're not talking about strip searches, but being required to remove shoes or jewlery that are "difficult" to remove. I'm talking about slip-on calf-high boots in the winter, or sandals that lace up to mid-calf in the summer. There was a woman getting a lot of attention for her toe rings - which looked like miniature iron bands. Not hazardous, but annoying. And the woman with 30+ bracelets, well, I'm sure she didn't feel any safer because the TSA screeners made them remove each and every one.
As for some of the other comments, belts and other metal-accessorized clothing often have enough metal to set off the walk-through detector. The hand-held wands can be turned up to be very sensitive - a remanant of the foil-pack for gum (trapped in pocket lint) was enough. So are the rivets in jeans, or if your cargo pants have too much metal in the zippers. My old sunglasses (safety-frame) also had too much metal to be pass through.
Since shoe removal now appears mandatory, I'm still trying my best to make sure I get through without secondary screening. This means using my coat (or a vest if it's hot) as a "handbag" and putting in all the sensitive items - keys, coins, watch - during the screening. I've had to remove my spare car key from my wallet so I can carry that on my person, since one co-worker had his wallet "lifted" from his jacket by the security screeners. It's a tough thing.
Since I travel so much for work, I loathe this aspect of travel, even for vacations. Should I ever win the lottery and retire, I vow to never fly anywhere. There are ships that go to Europe, Hawaii, and even Australia - everywhere else I would want to travel for pleasure, I can drive.
-------------------- "The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Hero_Mike: While "unseen" and non-removable piercings exist for both genders (albeit rarely), I can honestly say that I've never seen any male wearing anklets, toe rings, rings on all ten fingers, or a collection of braclets that would stop bullets better than Wonder Woman. This is not a sexist comment, but it happens to be true.
We obviously hang out in different circles.
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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