quote:Originally posted by Rhiandmoi: They said things like lustful kissing damages your future marriage because the enorphins released create permanent memories in your brain. And then one day when you are kissing your spouse you will reactivate that memory and have lust in your heart for that old partner.
I don't think there is any such thing as "permanent" memories. I am also pretty sure that endorphins are not related to memory retention. Certainly an experience that released a lot of endorphins might be more memorable, but if I recall my intro to psych correctly, endorphins are not one of the chemicals involved in the physical process of memory retention.
I think churches would be well served by focusing on spiritual and emotional effects and staying away from pseudoscientific things.
-------------------- Officially Heartless Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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The whole thing about virginity is once upon a time people got married when they hit puberty. Marriage was a business contract that included a dowry, so virginity was a way of saying the product had never been used before, thus commanding a 'full price' dowry. Sort of like when you drive a new car off the lot, its value immediately depreciates b/c it's now a used car.
Now b/c of adolescence and modern customs (like marrying out of love) the above doesn't apply anymore. Now it represents an almost narcissistic obsession with sex.
hoi 'takin' her for a test drive' toider
-------------------- No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie Posts: 3833 | From: Virginia | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Mama Duck: if you're looking for sex to give your life meaning, you're going to be disappointed whether you wait or not
I suppose that very much depends on your partner....
Four Kitties
Well... I suppose if you landed someone who looked like Johnny Depp and had the "talents" of Ron Jeremy, it could be quite.... enlightening.
Just feel fre to PM me if anyone needs to be "enlightened".
-------------------- "British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything." Llewtrah
Posts: 2235 | From: Sussex , UK | Registered: May 2004
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There were pledges like this when I was in HS. We didn't have to take them (all-male school), but the all-girls school down the road did. Any of their BFs who went to my HS took them as well, just to keep the peace.
I'm not in favor of these, in general. If a person is going to have sex, a pledge or a silver band isn't going to stop them. If they weren't going to, they don't need the band anyway.
-------------------- "To be or not to be! That is the question! Now, will you answer, dare, double dare, or take the Physical Challenge?" --Mark Summers as Hamlet Countdown: 177 days and counting... or less. My blog. 14 keyboards owed. Posts: 5584 | From: Ohio | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Casey: There were pledges like this when I was in HS. We didn't have to take them (all-male school), but the all-girls school down the road did. Any of their BFs who went to my HS took them as well, just to keep the peace.
When you say "have to take them" what do you mean? Were all the girls compelled to make this pledge and if so by whom? This whole ridiculous concept is getting even creepier by the minute .
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Wait, wait, it gets creepier. In at least one of the versions of virginity pledging, you fill out a little card in duplicate. You keep one, and the--uh--virginity organization keeps the other. And they go around and build sculptures out of these little cards. Kind of phallic sculptures, actually...big tower of cards, type of thing. Look at all these teenage virgins we've gotten to sign a card.
Posts: 330 | From: New Haven, VT | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Casey: There were pledges like this when I was in HS. We didn't have to take them (all-male school), but the all-girls school down the road did. Any of their BFs who went to my HS took them as well, just to keep the peace.
When you say "have to take them" what do you mean? Were all the girls compelled to make this pledge and if so by whom? This whole ridiculous concept is getting even creepier by the minute .
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like something a Catholic school would do. It's just the "all-girls school down the road" thing that makes me feel that was the case...
And I agree completely that the idea of pledging to your father is creepy. But what's bothering me about this, and I'm going to sound old-fashioned here, is that I don't believe that you should wear ANY ring on that finger until you're married. Besides the obvious disadvantage of appearing like you're married to any interested suitors, there's always the old wives tale that it's bad luck.
Heck, I can't even make myself wear a fake ring to avoid creepy guys when I go out with my girlfriends...
-------------------- ***sig line edited for content*** Posts: 249 | From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Cervus: Like AnglRdr, the idea of having to be reminded not to lose your virginity seems very odd to me. I suppose you could put one of those car key remotes on your hymen. That way, when you lose your virginity, you can just clap your hands and locate it.
-------------------- How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by hoitoider: The whole thing about virginity is once upon a time people got married when they hit puberty. Marriage was a business contract that included a dowry, so virginity was a way of saying the product had never been used before, thus commanding a 'full price' dowry. Sort of like when you drive a new car off the lot, its value immediately depreciates b/c it's now a used car.
Actually, the dowry was something the bride's father gave the groom. And was sometimes considered more important than the girl herself. Men would marry for the land or money that came along with their bride.
And if the girl wasn't a virgin, Daddy would have to pay through the nose to get some guy to overlook the fact.
In some countries even today, brides are killed because the groom's family don't think her father gave her husband enough money to take her off his hands.
Nonny
-------------------- When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 10141 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2000
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First, if someone wants to purchase one of these rings and wear them themselves for them, more power to you. Some people may think it tacky or vain, but then most jewelry and clothing choices revolve around some sort of pre-conceived notion of vanity or as a way to send a message so we're all a bunch of hypocrites anway.
Next, dad doing this whole formal ceremony isn't really something I can see fostering healthy ideas about sexuality.
But frankly when ranking how the Christian Denominations handle ALL sexual matters, I would have to give the institution as a whole an F. Maybe a D- on a forgiving day.
And let me fire this pre-emptive strike to say that I am a Christian (although, quiet arguable not a very good one), but I do still 'believe' and I still think thats enough in most arenas to at least be considered a 'bad' Christian if nothing else.
I realize that from an early time period, simple messages had to be conveyed to uneducated massess to help stem the flow of uncontrolled breeding leading to a breakdown of societal structure. When taken in that context combined with the fact that people were frequently married well before 18 years of age, it makes sense to an extent.
Fast forward 2000 years. People don't get married until (on average) a decade or more before they become sexually aware. In fact, most men go through their entire sexual peak well before thinking about marriage or even being expected to think about it. There are preventative measures available to control conception. The masses are capable of being much better educated on the entire subject (if we actually chose to do so). And even if things go wrong, we have a society (despite major short comming still in the area) that is more equiped to deal with these situations than anytime in the past. But we cling to the remnants of a moral code from 1550.
So what happens? Lets just say for example your a 16 year old boy who was brought up the 'right way' and have been given the lecture about premarital sex before. All the evils and prospective complications of it. And the moral 'obiligations' of being a virgin until marriage, yada, yada.
And yet you are constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY in a state of arousal. To the point of needing to relieve that tension lets say a minumum of 3 times a day. ('Lets just say' as Ron White would put it.) So you do, cause it drives you nuts. And you think about all the wonderful ways to relieve that tension and who you'd like to be there participating. But you know you can't and its 'wrong'. In fact, you know if you follow the proscribed, 'right' course (complete H.S., go to college, start a career, etc), you aren't going to get to relieve that particular itch until your early twenties at best. And so you ask your parents, your pastor, 'What do I do?". And you get the proverbial, "Well if you love and respect yourself and your God, just pray about it. God loves you and I know you'll do the right thing!" So you try. (Never mind the fact that He was the one that put that white-hot coal of fire between your legs, but I digress...)
But every time you get aroused and feel that 'pleasure' you're focusing on what is 'wrong' or 'bad'. And you know the next level just feels that much 'better' but it is also that much more 'immoral'.
What are we pre-conditioning here?
Anybody remember Pavlov's dogs?
Operant conditioning?
BAD = FEELS GOOD.
Is it any freakin' wonder we are a society full of sexual deviancy? We end up programming ourselves to enjoy sex only when its 'wrong' or 'bad'.
Or what more frequently happens is, your human nature gets the best of you well before you hit your mid twenties and you end up making some very poor sexual decisions that (if you're lucky), only end up in you feeling guilty about them for the rest of your life.
Not to mention, incredibly unrealistic expectations about what sex, 'should be'.
This isn't healthy. Period.
This is where the whole 'bad Christian' things comes into play. As part of being a more 'actualized' (but far from a wholely 'enlightened') adult, I've decided the Christian stance on sexuality is retarded. This whole traditional train of thought (combined with a couple of others) did a lot to really screw with me for many, many years. And I don't consider myself a mental midget, so it can't be helping out other people much either. (God and I may have to have a talk about this whole thing when I kick off, and if I end up being wrong... well I've been man enough to admit being wrong before and it certainly wouldn't be the first time. If he really is a forgiving God and he can see how I was 'mislead' and explain it to me and I suddenly understand, then I hope he'll take that into consideration.)
I wholely reject the 'save yourself' until marriage philosophy UNLESS it is something your are totally comforatable with for yourself. Not for your parents. Not for your friends. Not for your Church. For YOU. I do not look down upon those who are very sexually experienced but are still good people any more than I look up to those who have little experience but are also good people.
If we were really created in the same image as God (which I've alway taken to mean that intellectually we are constructed similarly if not equally), then He knows. And He knows how much we've screwed it all up....
-------------------- "Sometimes it will be fluffy bunnies and cotton candy. Sometimes it will be napalm and defoliants. Sometimes it is roasted bunnies." -Rhiandmoi Posts: 627 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Oct 2002
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Well, thank you Chloe. I don't know if it was exactly a work of genius, but its what I've come to believe. I certainly don't have all the answers, but life is frequently an essay exam and not a multiple choice test. We'll see how I get graded at the end.
Fowl"Just because I'm generally a conservative, that doesn't mean I'm TOTALLY repressed"play
-------------------- "Sometimes it will be fluffy bunnies and cotton candy. Sometimes it will be napalm and defoliants. Sometimes it is roasted bunnies." -Rhiandmoi Posts: 627 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Non-Vegetable-Derived Enzyme Mouse:
quote:Originally posted by hoitoider: The whole thing about virginity is once upon a time people got married when they hit puberty. Marriage was a business contract that included a dowry, so virginity was a way of saying the product had never been used before, thus commanding a 'full price' dowry. Sort of like when you drive a new car off the lot, its value immediately depreciates b/c it's now a used car.
Actually, the dowry was something the bride's father gave the groom.
I was going by the biblical definition:
Dowry: (mohar; i.e., price paid for a wife, Genesis 34:12; Exodus 22:17; 1 Samuel 18:25), a nuptial present; some gift, as a sum of money, which the bridegroom offers to the father of his bride as a satisfaction before he can receive her. Jacob had no dowry to give for his wife, but he gave his services (Genesis 29:18; 30:20; 34:12). ref
-------------------- No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie Posts: 3833 | From: Virginia | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Fowlplay: Well, thank you Chloe. ...Fowl"Just because I'm generally a conservative, that doesn't mean I'm TOTALLY repressed"play
Oh, c'mon now. I didn't say "That was a great post...for you!"
-------------------- ~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~ Posts: 10111 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I thought that a wedding ring was a chastitiy ring.
-------------------- "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid,than to open it and remove all doubt."- Mark Twain Posts: 426 | From: Tucson, AZ (The Old Pueblo) | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by The Goof: I thought that a wedding ring was a chastitiy ring.
What do you mean? Married people usually have sex.
Wait a minute! Are you joking, you wry prankster you?
edited because I am slow.
-------------------- Officially Heartless Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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-------------------- "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid,than to open it and remove all doubt."- Mark Twain Posts: 426 | From: Tucson, AZ (The Old Pueblo) | Registered: Jun 2004
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As far as the "have to sign pledge" thing, allow me to tell you a tale.
At my very large, urban, public high school, the "say no to sex!" guy came 2x a year. After his speech, they would pass out pledge cards which we were all supposed to sign and give back as we left. Ostensibly, this was optional, but it was damn difficult to get out of the gym w/o signing. I knew that I had no intention whatsoever of... how was that put?... "buying the car w/o taking it for a test drive", so I generally wrote "no, thanks" and handed it back. (Most of the girls who did sign where WAAAAY more sexually active than me, btw, but total hypocrisy seemed to be expected.)
Second semester of my senior year, they did a special "off to college" edition of the talk. In this one, everyone who signed was given a little necklace. Once again, I refused to sign. Cue several weeks of "Where's your necklace?" "Can I see your necklace?" "WHAT? You didn't get one???" "OMG are you a slut or something??!!" A lot of the "Christian" girls ostracized me, but that was fine, because my popularity among the fellas skyrocketed.
So, while it wasn't ever "required" (like for a grade) it was darn well expected of every girl to sign.
-------------------- "In perfume, as in underwear, the scantiest of applications provides the greatest of returns." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 858 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Casey: There were pledges like this when I was in HS. We didn't have to take them (all-male school), but the all-girls school down the road did. Any of their BFs who went to my HS took them as well, just to keep the peace.
When you say "have to take them" what do you mean? Were all the girls compelled to make this pledge and if so by whom? This whole ridiculous concept is getting even creepier by the minute .
It's a private, very Catholic school. Hence, they can have you take such a pledge. My HS, just about as Catholic and just as private, didn't bother with them.
-------------------- "To be or not to be! That is the question! Now, will you answer, dare, double dare, or take the Physical Challenge?" --Mark Summers as Hamlet Countdown: 177 days and counting... or less. My blog. 14 keyboards owed. Posts: 5584 | From: Ohio | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cervus: Like AnglRdr, the idea of having to be reminded not to lose your virginity seems very odd to me. I suppose you could put one of those car key remotes on your hymen. That way, when you lose your virginity, you can just clap your hands and locate it.
That was nearly a YOMANK, except I just had dental work done so I ended up with my drink dribbling out the numb side of my mouth and onto my desk.
Noemi
-------------------- Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult. My blog, no guarantees about witty or intelligent content. My current projects. Coveted Beads <---- our eBay store, new items being added somewhat regularly Posts: 8418 | From: Wyoming | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Apologies in advance for a slew of various asides and observations that are not nearly as enlightening nor to the point as the post I'm making observations on:
quote:Originally posted by Fowlplay: Fast forward 2000 years. People don't get married until (on average) a decade or more before they become sexually aware. In fact, most men go through their entire sexual peak well before thinking about marriage or even being expected to think about it. There are preventative measures available to control conception. The masses are capable of being much better educated on the entire subject (if we actually chose to do so). And even if things go wrong, we have a society (despite major short comming still in the area) that is more equiped to deal with these situations than anytime in the past. But we cling to the remnants of a moral code from 1550.
In some respects, it's gotten a bit worse since 1550. King Henry would hardly have been subjected to the 16th century equivalent of impeachment for having received oral sex from one of his minions (yes, I know that Henry died in 1547, but I didn't feel like dealing with the inplications inherent in involving Edward).
quote:Originally posted by Fowlplay: And yet you are constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY in a state of arousal. To the point of needing to relieve that tension lets say a minumum of 3 times a day. ('Lets just say' as Ron White would put it.) So you do, cause it drives you nuts. And you think about all the wonderful ways to relieve that tension and who you'd like to be there participating. But you know you can't and its 'wrong'. In fact, you know if you follow the proscribed, 'right' course (complete H.S., go to college, start a career, etc), you aren't going to get to relieve that particular itch until your early twenties at best. And so you ask your parents, your pastor, 'What do I do?". And you get the proverbial, "Well if you love and respect yourself and your God, just pray about it. God loves you and I know you'll do the right thing!" So you try. (Never mind the fact that He was the one that put that white-hot coal of fire between your legs, but I digress...)
Don't forget about the philosophy based on Matthew 5:28 - if you've even thought about doing it, you've done it in your heart. Now try not thinking about it. Hell, try to avoid thinking about any particular subject and see how well you do.
quote:Originally posted by Fowlplay: But every time you get aroused and feel that 'pleasure' you're focusing on what is 'wrong' or 'bad'. And you know the next level just feels that much 'better' but it is also that much more 'immoral'.
What are we pre-conditioning here?
Anybody remember Pavlov's dogs?
Operant conditioning?
BAD = FEELS GOOD.
Is it any freakin' wonder we are a society full of sexual deviancy? We end up programming ourselves to enjoy sex only when its 'wrong' or 'bad'.
This goes a long way towards explaining a phenomenon I see driving south on I-95. As soon as I hit the Bible Belt, I start seeing lots of billboards for two specific items; churches and strip clubs (often on the same set of billboards).
quote:Originally posted by Fowlplay: This is where the whole 'bad Christian' things comes into play. As part of being a more 'actualized' (but far from a wholely 'enlightened') adult, I've decided the Christian stance on sexuality is retarded. This whole traditional train of thought (combined with a couple of others) did a lot to really screw with me for many, many years. And I don't consider myself a mental midget, so it can't be helping out other people much either. (God and I may have to have a talk about this whole thing when I kick off, and if I end up being wrong... well I've been man enough to admit being wrong before and it certainly wouldn't be the first time. If he really is a forgiving God and he can see how I was 'mislead' and explain it to me and I suddenly understand, then I hope he'll take that into consideration.)
That leads into another question: the traditional Christian stance according to whom? Jesus? Paul? St Augustine (who's responsible for a lot of the traditional interpretation of the Bible wrt sex)? Puritans? Primitive Baptists?
About the only thing I have to add besides questions is the famous quote from Butch Hancock on what life in Lubbock, Texas taught him about sex.
buf 'sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love' ungla
-------------------- "Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."
George Bernard Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra Posts: 4847 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2001
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Okay, the father-daughter chastity ceremony thing is really creeping me out. Do these fathers also come in the morning after the wedding to inspect the sheets and make sure the daughter left a bloodstain?
I never heard of anything like these chastity rings or virginity pledges in high school. We were an oddly well-adjusted group, I think. I'm sure there were kids having sex, but it never seemed like a big deal; there didn't seem to be any pressure to do it or not to do it. Out of a class of 100, there was one couple who had a kid before graduation (both parents finished school, BTW). I can't think of a single time I heard a rumor about anyone having caught such-and-such STD. It just wasn't an issue.
College was an entirely different story. I went away to a very small Baptist college in rural WV, and a lot of the girls there had these rings. A few of them made a big deal about how I didn't have one-- "Don't you think your future husband is important enough to save yourself for?" one girl asked me imploringly. Of course, I was freaky-pagan-goth chick at the time, so I think I kind of scared them anyway. To most of the girls, it was no big deal as to who did and didn't wear a chastity ring.
Ironically, it seemed that the girls who were most vocal and critical of me not having one were the ones most likely to be caught in... um... compromising positions.
-------------------- Last year's goat was burned down by vandals dressed up as Santa Claus and the Gingerbread Man. They were never caught. My blog. The Adventures of the Fish O'Thwacking. Countdown: 177 days (or less!) Posts: 4926 | From: NW Ohio | Registered: Apr 2003
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I'm finding a hard time beleiving these father daguther ceremonies exist. Can someone provide some background on that. Like what denominations do it or where one has seen it done?
quote:Originally posted by Minstrel: I went away to a very small Baptist college in rural WV, and a lot of the girls there had these rings. A few of them made a big deal about how I didn't have one-- "Don't you think your future husband is important enough to save yourself for?" one girl asked me imploringly.
That's what bothers me the most about the "True Love Waits" message. Why do it (or, rather, not do it) for someone else? What if your future husband isn't a virgin?
Of all the things I would encourage people to look for in a spouse, virginity wouldn't even make the list. Is he a good person? Honest? Truthful? Caring? Loving? Do you share the same basic views on raising children, finances, and religion? Can you deal with the differences should they exist? Whether they have has sex with anyone else is not very important at all.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by BeachLife: I'm finding a hard time beleiving these father daguther ceremonies exist. Can someone provide some background on that. Like what denominations do it or where one has seen it done?
quote: A True Love Waits Ring Ceremony is a special picture of the commitment to sexual purity shared between a parent and his or her teenage son or daughter. The ceremony typically takes place during a True Love Waits Commitment Service. In it a parent presents a ring to his or her teenager to wear as a symbol of that teenager's commitment to purity. The Ring Ceremony can be the most pivotal, meaningful event on your church calendar because it can impact the lives of students and families for generations
The URL contains a script for the ceremony.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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It has generally been the case that societies that take the dimmest view of sex are the most obsessive about sex. The puritans were desperately looking for traces of sex so that they could stamp it out. Modern America seems to have a split personality: Puritanism and a huge porn industry. The French (for example) seem much less interested in sex. It is fun or tragic or meaningful but it is only part of life. As an Englishman, it is a wonderful thing but to many of my countrymen, it is rather less wonderful than cricket. Unless we are losing, of course.
Splendid posting by Fowlplay. Respect to you, Sir. You made my teenage years seem like a a stay in a monastery by comparison.
Blues.
Posts: 207 | From: Woolhampton, Berks, UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
While Googling in an attempt to find some info for BeachLife (and for me), I was disturbed to discover that chastity rings do exist here too.
One article brought up an interesting point. What about gay and lesbian teens? If they aren't allowed to have sex before marriage, and they aren't allowed to marry... what are they supposed to do? Keep their legs crossed for the next seventy years?
quote:Originally posted by Pogue Mah-humbug: Even creepier are the organizations that have the young girl make the viginity pledge to her father, and he gives her a ring in exchange.
Now I feel like I need a shower. Maybe three.
-------------------- In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte Posts: 1801 | From: The Forest City, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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The link doesn't work for me. Regardless, I find a big difference between a young man or women making the pledge to either parent and a daughter making the pledge specifically to her father.
posted
The thing I find interesting from my Google search is that the "True Love Waits" program, which is the one I have heard of the most, was started by LifeWay, a Christian Bookstore Chain. One could argue they created an industry in order to sell rings and books.
quote: “Everything in our culture is geared toward the sexual failure of our teenagers,” said Jimmy Hester, co-founder of True Love Waits and director of youth publishing at LifeWay Christian Resources of the Southern Baptist Convention. True Love Waits is a LifeWay ministry.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Em: While Googling in an attempt to find some info for BeachLife (and for me), I was disturbed to discover that chastity rings do exist here too.
One article brought up an interesting point. What about gay and lesbian teens? If they aren't allowed to have sex before marriage, and they aren't allowed to marry... what are they supposed to do? Keep their legs crossed for the next seventy years?
Presumably they're just supposed to pray that God will turn them straight.
-------------------- Last year's goat was burned down by vandals dressed up as Santa Claus and the Gingerbread Man. They were never caught. My blog. The Adventures of the Fish O'Thwacking. Countdown: 177 days (or less!) Posts: 4926 | From: NW Ohio | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by BeachLife: The link doesn't work for me. Regardless, I find a big difference between a young man or women making the pledge to either parent and a daughter making the pledge specifically to her father.
Beach...a big difference...Life!
Why? It's creepy either way. And just as creepy BTW if it's a boy making that pledge to either of his parents. I'll grant there is an extra soupcon of creepiness when it's the parent of the opposite gender, because frankly it seems almost incestuous in a weird sort of way, though.
I'm sitting here trying to envision how any kind of conversation with either of my kids would have gone if I'd suggested "hey here's what would be a good idea" . It would not have been pretty.
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Em: One article brought up an interesting point. What about gay and lesbian teens? If they aren't allowed to have sex before marriage, and they aren't allowed to marry... what are they supposed to do? Keep their legs crossed for the next seventy years?
Presumably they're just supposed to pray that God will turn them straight.
quote:Some teenagers in your church may not have parents who will participate with them in the ring ceremony. Enlist a significant adult for each of these students to participate in the ring ceremony with them.
This is even creepier than the parents being involved. It even seems a little borderline pedophilic. If the parents don't want to take part in the ceremony, some random adult that the pastor chooses certainly shouldn't be a part of it.
-------------------- I love Jesus... PURPLE JESUS !!! Posts: 248 | From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Some teenagers in your church may not have parents who will participate with them in the ring ceremony. Enlist a significant adult for each of these students to participate in the ring ceremony with them.
This is even creepier than the parents being involved. It even seems a little borderline pedophilic. If the parents don't want to take part in the ceremony, some random adult that the pastor chooses certainly shouldn't be a part of it.
In many church-related ceremonies, minors will have some sort of sponsor. It's basically for the purpose of having someone else in the faith be there to guide you.
-------------------- "I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, EVIL stuff... and I want in."- Homer Simpson Posts: 2161 | From: Delaware | Registered: Aug 2005
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.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
